Pogeymafia: Red and Green - OVER! Who lived happily ever after in Kanto?

[CT Chia]

Whoops i missed that part

 

[SummonerAU]

Meta Kirby, what are your thoughts about it?

 

[SummonerAU]

I am also interested in Swords' thoughts.

 

[Ronike]

My last post got posted an hour and a half after I made it (had no internet due to a play). Unvote swords thats dumb.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I didn't suggest it, I was asking for the negatives.
You see, I found a half-broken Mewtwo tracking device this night, and it told me exactly this 'Mewtwo’s last known location: Celadon Department Store'. I was wondering if Mewtwo would be dumb enough to claim his loc. It's half broken so it was 1shot.
Also, I'm pretty confident that my speed is greater than that of the trainers, should I loc claim and gtfo afterwards? It could clear some things up.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Btw thinking Mewtwo's kill isn't based on location as he's psychic and stuff.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, lets tell the trainers and mewtwo where EVERYONE is so they can start heading to those places and thereby increase their chances of encountering who they want to.

I didn't suggest it, I was asking for the negatives.
You see, I found a half-broken Mewtwo tracking device this night, and it told me exactly this 'Mewtwo’s last known location: Celadon Department Store'.

I learned that Omis died (yeah yeah) and his most recent exploration and night actions. He visited the detroyed lab and he tried to rock smash (I assume nightkill) SwordsRBroken but he died before the action went through.

1.) Omis flipped Vigilante - he probably tried to kill Swords whom he seemed to believed to be scum. Either way we know that Omis didn't die through the Vigilante because he was the Vig, which means that he didn't get to kill anybody.

2.) There were no other Nightkills. If we assume Mewto to have an ability that allows to kill other Pokémon (since the Trainers seem to be restricted to recruitment) then the most likely case is that Omis was killed by Mewto. Other options (such as Omis being killed by some other power or even an item) exist though this one seems to be the most realistic one.

3.) According to the claims we know that a.) Omis was in the PokéLab and b.) Mewto was in the Department store. They were not in the same place and yet - if we assume 1.) and 2.) to be true - Mewto managed to kill Omis.

If all assumptions are correct then either Xonar or Summoner is lying or Frozen is simply wrong. Logically, I'm inclined to think it's the latter. This is because the effect of an item or a night action does not depend on a player's allignment - even if Xonar or Summoner were scum they had no reason to lie and they wouldn't benefit from it either as far as I can see.

Of course it's just an assumption but based on what we know so far it seems likely that Mewto's assumed ability to kill does not depend on a player's location. That means that Mewto is always a direct threat to us.
What we don't know however is whether this also applies to Trainers or not. I can see Trainers being limited to catching Pokémon in the same area for balance's sake but also to match with the flavour. If this is also true then D1 Chibo wasn't actually wrong in saying that Mewto is a bigger threat to us then the Trainers because while Mewto can kill us from any location, Trainers can not do the same. Of course there was no way for him to actually know this on D1 already and we still don't actually "know" it now.
The main point is that I think Chibo got more negative attention yesterDay than he actually deserved. People who scapegoated him for trying to focus on Mewto might've been up to something or try to draw attention away to something else. Something to keep in mind when rereading.

My thoughts on this: While it isn't conclusive that Swords is a BG, I was thinking about who I would have killed tonight and it wouldn't have been Omis. So I believe that whoever killed Omis killed him for a reason. So, if Omis was sure enough to try and kill Swords, I'm going to back him. I'm not going to try and guess events that led up to his choice to try and kill Swords, but I do think he knew something about Swords.

I don't understand this. How do you conclude from Swords being attacked by Omis that Swords has to be scum? Your post implies that Swords is the receiver of an action, not the agressor. If it was the other way round and you've seen Swords using an action against Omis then I'd make sense to push for the Swords lynch. Did I misuderstand something?

A little food for thought: HP mafia had a PGO like role that killed players who - onn all odd nights - killed players who visited that role (There were also different locations and items to explore so there are some parallels). This could easily be the case here although it would require Swords to claim in order to confirm it - something we absolutely want to avoid.

I'd like to add that we shouldn't just follow claimed investiations. The idea of "following the cop" has turned out badly many times (look at SLJ2 or Simpsons) and I think it'd be better if we don't just lynch somebody to confirm the reliability of a night action. Not when trainers possibly have the ability to steal our own comrades away. We do know that night actions - even when they are pro-town - can never confirm a player's allignment.

Not to say that lynching Swords is an absolute "no" but I don't think we should lynch anybody to confirm night actions that can be snagged by the Trainers.

I didn't suggest it, I was asking for the negatives.
You see, I found a half-broken Mewtwo tracking device this night, and it told me exactly this 'Mewtwo’s last known location: Celadon Department Store'.
I was wondering if Mewtwo would be dumb enough to claim his loc. It's half broken so it was 1shot.

I think the negatives are obvious. While it seems that Mewto can kill independently of location there is still the possibility that Trainers can only catch Pokémon in the same location. Unless you want everybody to openly declare to the trainers where they can be caught I'd say it's not a very good idea. Especially since you revealed you "plan" now anyway.

I'm pretty confident that my speed is greater than that of the trainers, should I loc claim and gtfo afterwards? It could clear some things up.

Only if it helps us to find scum without revealing any more Power Roles or other negatives.

 

[SummonerAU]

I don't understand this. How do you conclude from Swords being attacked by Omis that Swords has to be scum? Your post implies that Swords is the receiver of an action, not the agressor. If it was the other way round and you've seen Swords using an action against Omis then I'd make sense to push for the Swords lynch. Did I misuderstand something?

I thought it was very convenient for Swords for Mewtwo to have killed Omis just before Swords was going to die. I also found it strange that Omis was targeted for the NK because it isn't who I'd have picked for it. Secondly, I thought it was strange for Omis to have targeted Swords after his comment on Swords was "Swords is just a dumb player in my book. I dont see much scum in him just inexperience and other nub tells. ". I think it's a little strange to shoot someone after they said that.


Yes, I know that above paragraph is mostly silly, but it's something that I thought was interesting so I'm going to be voting Swords unless something better presents itself OR swords convinces me otherwise.

Guys, do you think we'll learn that trainers are nearby when we visit the same location as them? Do you think Omis' Rock Smash can be used without location restrictions?

Xonar, did you have to throw away the item or do you still have it but can't use it?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I think Swords is a bodyguard/busdriver, but I'm not sure.

The device was half-broken, after it gave me the location it broke.

@the location claim thing, I don't know how it is with you guys, but I can't go any further into my location, so I was thinking that everyone can simply change locations, but if you guys have more to explore just nvm it.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Yes, I got an insight onto last nights happening from where I visited.

I don't really want to say where, so I'll edit the information.

I learned that Omis died (yeah yeah) and his most recent exploration and night actions. He visited the detroyed lab and he tried to rock smash (I assume nightkill) SwordsRBroken but he died before the action went through.

My thoughts on this: While it isn't conclusive that Swords is a BG, I was thinking about who I would have killed tonight and it wouldn't have been Omis. So I believe that whoever killed Omis killed him for a reason. So, if Omis was sure enough to try and kill Swords, I'm going to back him. I'm not going to try and guess events that led up to his choice to try and kill Swords, but I do think he knew something about Swords.

Worst case ever. You're going to try and lynch me because Omis attempted to kill me but was roleblocked?

I mean really, that just dumb summoner. Besides, omis had no connections with anyone, so really, you're grasping at straws.

 

[CT Chia]

your defense is looking really aggressive there swords...

 

[SummonerAU]

Yes, I know that above paragraph is mostly silly, but it's something that I thought was interesting so I'm going to be voting Swords unless something better presents itself OR swords convinces me otherwise.

Hi Swords, seems you missed the clue train. I'm pretty surprised you reacted so strongly though. Are you worried about anything Swords?

 

[SummonerAU]

Pretty sure there should be a Swords wagon right now :]

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Vote: Swords

Swords being bodyguard/switcher role is VERY doubtful, thinking about it. I'm 99% sure he isn't. I looked at it the wrong way.

 

[CT Chia]

vote swords

 

[McFox]

It seems to me that if Swords is indeed responsible for this death, that may not necessarily make him scum.

Just saying. He certainly could be. In TMNT mafia (the first one), created and hosted by M3D, the Shredder was the leader of the mafia. If ANY role visited him at night, they instantly died.

HOWEVER, there are town-aligned roles that kill visitors as well. Just because Omis decided to attack Swords does not automatically make Swords scum.

This is not a defense of Swords, just something to chew on.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Omis just died earlier. Was he roleblocked? Nobody knows. Was he killed before he could kill? Nobody knows. I don't think Swords was responsible, if he was he probably would've claimed town spikeyball-who-kills-everyone-who-visits-him.

 

[Handorin]

1.) Omis flipped Vigilante - he probably tried to kill Swords whom he seemed to believed to be scum. Either way we know that Omis didn't die through the Vigilante because he was the Vig, which means that he didn't get to kill anybody.

2.) There were no other Nightkills. If we assume Mewto to have an ability that allows to kill other Pokémon (since the Trainers seem to be restricted to recruitment) then the most likely case is that Omis was killed by Mewto. Other options (such as Omis being killed by some other power or even an item) exist though this one seems to be the most realistic one.

3.) According to the claims we know that a.) Omis was in the PokéLab and b.) Mewto was in the Department store. They were not in the same place and yet - if we assume 1.) and 2.) to be true - Mewto managed to kill Omis.

If all assumptions are correct then either Xonar or Summoner is lying or Frozen is simply wrong. Logically, I'm inclined to think it's the latter. This is because the effect of an item or a night action does not depend on a player's allignment - even if Xonar or Summoner were scum they had no reason to lie and they wouldn't benefit from it either as far as I can see.

Of course it's just an assumption but based on what we know so far it seems likely that Mewto's assumed ability to kill does not depend on a player's location. That means that Mewto is always a direct threat to us.
What we don't know however is whether this also applies to Trainers or not. I can see Trainers being limited to catching Pokémon in the same area for balance's sake but also to match with the flavour. If this is also true then D1 Chibo wasn't actually wrong in saying that Mewto is a bigger threat to us then the Trainers because while Mewto can kill us from any location, Trainers can not do the same. Of course there was no way for him to actually know this on D1 already and we still don't actually "know" it now.
The main point is that I think Chibo got more negative attention yesterDay than he actually deserved. People who scapegoated him for trying to focus on Mewto might've been up to something or try to draw attention away to something else. Something to keep in mind when rereading.



I don't understand this. How do you conclude from Swords being attacked by Omis that Swords has to be scum? Your post implies that Swords is the receiver of an action, not the agressor. If it was the other way round and you've seen Swords using an action against Omis then I'd make sense to push for the Swords lynch. Did I misuderstand something?

A little food for thought: HP mafia had a PGO like role that killed players who - onn all odd nights - killed players who visited that role (There were also different locations and items to explore so there are some parallels). This could easily be the case here although it would require Swords to claim in order to confirm it - something we absolutely want to avoid.

I'd like to add that we shouldn't just follow claimed investiations. The idea of "following the cop" has turned out badly many times (look at SLJ2 or Simpsons) and I think it'd be better if we don't just lynch somebody to confirm the reliability of a night action. Not when trainers possibly have the ability to steal our own comrades away. We do know that night actions - even when they are pro-town - can never confirm a player's allignment.

Not to say that lynching Swords is an absolute "no" but I don't think we should lynch anybody to confirm night actions that can be snagged by the Trainers.



I think the negatives are obvious. While it seems that Mewto can kill independently of location there is still the possibility that Trainers can only catch Pokémon in the same location. Unless you want everybody to openly declare to the trainers where they can be caught I'd say it's not a very good idea. Especially since you revealed you "plan" now anyway.



Only if it helps us to find scum without revealing any more Power Roles or other negatives.

I just can't.... get this off my mind....
IT'S SPELLED.................... MEWTWO.
It's spelled wrong.... 10 times....
TEN.....
You didn't.... spell it right once......

In fact, you didn't......... even spell it right....
in your first post (4 times)..............

This is a very reasonable response.

A trainer's ability to catch a wild Pokémon and to make it his own is a direct threat to them. By getting caught they're slowly decimating in number unless a trainer is lynched. It seems like a trainer has 3 Pokéballs in his custody to recruit wild Pokémon, which makes them take the trainer's allignment (at least that's what I'm getting from the posts I've read so far although I don't remeber seeing it in the OP).

If this is the case then it also seems likely that Red and Green are the only members of their respective faction toDay because number wise it would probably be the most balanced way to handle this mechanic. As a consequence however, it seems unlikely that Mewto is also a recruiter. First of all Mewto doesn't use Pokéballs to catch other Pokémon and second of all I highly doubt the presence of three recruiting factions.



There is no way to know if Mewto is the only character in the game that has a night kill ability. Two opposing recruiters, who can recruit three times make this seem more likely though. You should keep in mind that there are still other ways to kill players in mafia games.

- If there is a Vigilante he can probably be recruited
- Witch / Interceptor are conditional killing roles
- PGOs exist and M3D used a similar role in HP Mafia
- There might be an ability or an item that allows players to perform a night kill

These are just some examples of alternative ways to kill players. If you read through HP Mafia you'll see that there were almost always 2 or 3 kills in each night. So saying that Mewto is the only character who can kill people is a bit too early - in fact we don't know if he can kill at all.



Too early to make such a statement. I like Frozen's case against Xonar and it's directly rooted in the discussion we had so far. No need to dismiss it yet.

Speculating about possible roles is only bad if somebody hints at a particular thing too hard. If we speculate about anti-town factions we don't make knowledge to the mafia available that they can't already have themselves.





Unvote Vote Xonar



No bull.
Even the sample role PM does have a PR (50% of blocking night actions).

No other....mentions of Mewtwo...

So....
Vote: Gheb...
I just couldn't....get....that out of my head......
Things that annoy me...when I first...wake up....

 

[Handorin]

/inb4englishnothisfirstlanguage

Ich weiss es.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No other....mentions of Mewtwo...

Could you elaborate? I didn't really get the point here.

 

[Handorin]

Could you elaborate? I didn't really get the point here.

Meaning....he never said "mewto/mewtwo" other than.....those two posts....I quoted....

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Omis just died earlier. Was he roleblocked? Nobody knows. Was he killed before he could kill? Nobody knows. I don't think Swords was responsible, if he was he probably would've claimed town spikeyball-who-kills-everyone-who-visits-him.

I'm not. I really don't get the votes on me right now. You're voting me based on summoner's case which is based on the fact that he says that omis targeted me?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Edit: I meant to say it's based on something that we don't know is a fact.

 

[Xiivi]

Route 2-2
Chaco: (0)
ChiboSempai: (0)
frozenflame751: (0)
Gheb_01: Handorin (:item9:)
Handorin: (0)
KevinM: (0)
McFox: (0)
Meta-Kirby: (0)
Ronike: (0)
Ryker: (0)
SummonerAU: Gheb_01, SwordsRBroken (:item9: :item9:)
SwordsRBroken: SummonerAU, Xonar, ChiboSempai (:item9: :item9: :item9:)
Xonar: (0)
Not Voting: Chaco, frozenflame751, KevinM, McFox, Meta-Kirby,Ronike, Ryker (:item9: :item9: :item9: :item9: :item9: :item9: :item9:)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline for Day 2 has been set for April 3, 11:59AM EST!

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dude Xiivi it's day2 already D:

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@the location claim thing, I don't know how it is with you guys, but I can't go any further into my location, so I was thinking that everyone can simply change locations, but if you guys have more to explore just nvm it.

I think this is too much based on individual actions to come to a conclusion everybody will agree with. Some players might not mind leaving their current location but some might do because there could be a chance they find a useful item there.

I'm against it in case Trainers are only able to catch depending on their current location.

Omis just died earlier. Was he roleblocked? Nobody knows. Was he killed before he could kill? Nobody knows. I don't think Swords was responsible, if he was he probably would've claimed town spikeyball-who-kills-everyone-who-visits-him.

While we don't actually know this for sure, it's very likely. Why else would the confirmed Vigilante, who was reported to have attacked another player be the only player to actually die last night?

Sometimes a player is not told every aspect of his role. A Miller does rarely actually know he's a miller, some protecting roles have a roleblocking side-effect (unknown to the player) and sometimes a game mod may decide to simply leave things vague in the role PM. As far as I know the "PGO" from HP Mafia wasn't actually told he's a PGO. I'm pretty sure of it.

/inb4englishnothisfirstlanguage

Ich weiss es.

Actually, it was more that I just didn't care about how "Mewtwo" is actually pronounced.

Coole Geschichte, Bruder.

I'm not. I really don't get the votes on me right now. You're voting me based on summoner's case which is based on the fact that he says that omis targeted me?

It's also about your harsh reaction to Summoner's accusation. Personally, I'm inclined to agree with them in this case that it was a pretty scummy reaction. Then again you seem to like posting silly pics in your resonses when you're town as you did in Scum Wars.

 

[Handorin]

Just making sure....
you could actually say Mewtwo...
cause Belle couldn't say "Voldemort"....
in HP mafia...

 

[Xiivi]

Kein Deutsch, nur auf Englisch bitte.

[Ook geen Nederlands.]

Thanks for the correction Xonar.

 

[Handorin]

Kein Deutsch, nur auf Englisch bitte.

[Ook geen Nederlands.]

Thanks for the correction Xonar.

But...we didn't say anything important... or anything that could...be figured out....by context clues.... =(

 

[SummonerAU]

Swords, why do you think Omis would have wanted you dead? Who should we be voting instead of you?

 

[SummonerAU]

Oh and guys, the pm I got specifically says he was interrupted. So yes, he was killed before he could kill.

 

[McFox]

Well that would imply that it wasn't actually Swords at all, and that Omis was just coincidentally Mewtwo's kill last night (still assuming that Mewtwo is an SK). Being a powerful Pokemon, Mewtwo's action probably has priority over most of us.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I just realised... Speed could not only influence who comes to a location first, but also the chain of night actions. Thinking Mewtwo comes first with his 130 speed.

 

[CT Chia]

or roleblocked?

 

[McFox]

Chibo, I have NO idea what "or roleblocked?" is supposed to mean in the context of Xonar's post.

 

[CT Chia]

had the page open for a while, was ninja'd. it was in response to summoner

 

[SummonerAU]

Hey Meta Kirby, I know you're online, maybe you should say something

 

[KevinM]

Vote Summoner

 

[SummonerAU]

Yeah man, I love wagoning Summoner too.

 

[SummonerAU]

Oh, something slipped my mind.

Trainers can trap wild pokemon. I don't know how it relates to travelling, all I have is that trainers can trap pokemon.