Plusle and Minun, anyone?

[Black/Light]

Yellow Mage, no matter what you say, if we are defining

as a mouse, then by default,

and

are also mice. It's inescapable. I don't care if the game catergorizes them as "plus" and "minus" animals, because there's no such thing as a "plus." They're mice, and they're electric. They're Pichu with different markings, and they suck. This is still as terrible an idea as it was when it was first posted. There is absolutely no reason at all to add these two lame-***es to the game, and there's every reason in the world to keep them out. We have Pikachu, an electric mouse. We have Pichu, another electric mouse. There is absolutely no reason to double the number of electric mice we have now. And no matter what you say, they ARE electric mice.

No reason for them to be in. . . there was no reason for Pichu out-side of him being wanted greatly by Japan (the 2nd gen mascot like they are the 3rd gen mascots).
It's really not (or shouldn't be) a arguement on SHOULD they be in as much as it should be a arguement about their chances of getting in. Face it, Japan is hot for them and we all know that their is a good chance that a "cute" pokemon will be added. Add that to the fact that their pretty unique (made for team-work) and than you have a character that seems like Sakurai would be interested in.

Like it or not their chances are pretty high for 3rd gen pokemon rep. I may not want more pika rips but they are pretty unique (they look fun too (^_^) )and have a good chance of getting in with or with out our wanting..
Edit-700 post!!!!

 

[Yellow Mage]

Yellow Mage, no matter what you say, if we are defining

as a mouse, then by default,

and

are also mice. It's inescapable. I don't care if the game catergorizes them as "plus" and "minus" animals, because there's no such thing as a "plus." They're mice, and they're electric. They're Pichu with different markings, and they suck. This is still as terrible an idea as it was when it was first posted. There is absolutely no reason at all to add these two lame-***es to the game, and there's every reason in the world to keep them out. We have Pikachu, an electric mouse. We have Pichu, another electric mouse. There is absolutely no reason to double the number of electric mice we have now. And no matter what you say, they ARE electric mice.

McFox, although my computer is crappy and won't load your pics, I'll assume those are Pikachu, Plusle, and Minun respectively. And by the way, Black/Light countered you.

If i'm your intellectual opposite,then that makes you a complete moron on the level of intellect.I don't care about your moves,you already lost to McFox,you should quit putting yourself on a pedestal and accept defeat,you are fighting a losing argument.I have nothing against you,i'm against stupidity in general,and i see alot of it coming from you direction.



Thank you,someone with common sense comes into play.These are rats,they suck,and they always will suck.End of story.

I meant intellectual opposite as you seem mentally FIXED on countering my every point; but now that you bring it up, I think you may have another point, except for the part about who you define the moron: even McFox can be beaten, which you apparently didn't know.

No reason for them to be in. . . there was no reason for Pichu out-side of him being wanted greatly by Japan (the 2nd gen mascot like they are the 3rd gen mascots).
It's really not (or shouldn't be) a arguement on SHOULD they be in as much as it should be a arguement about their chances of getting in. Face it, Japan is hot for them and we all know that their is a good chance that a "cute" pokemon will be added. Add that to the fact that their pretty unique (made for team-work) and than you have a character that seems like Sakurai would be interested in.

Like it or not their chances are pretty high for 3rd gen pokemon rep. I may not want more pika rips but they are pretty unique (they look fun too (^_^) )and have a good chance of getting in with or with out our wanting..
Edit-700 post!!!!

Except for the part about Japan and the "700th personal post" part, that's exactly what I would have said.

And screw the moveset I was making earlier: I don't NEED to make it!

 

[Sheek]

Yes!
They look shquishy...

 

[Black/Light]

This is what I meant by "Japan is hot for them". They are liked highly there and where even given a huge hunk of size on the Pokemon jet (2004).
(But Torchic *points to Blaziken* and Deoxy where also on there so that might say something about their fan-base in Japan too.)

 

[Buddha Fett]

I dunno... we've already got two electric rodents. But, if you're talking about using them as a Pichu replacement, then I'm all for it. They'd make a pretty crazy team.

 

[Yellow Mage]

I apologize, as my computer REFUSES to allow me to see any images you post. But, otherwise, I agree severely with both you, Black/Light, and you too, Buddha Fett.

 

[stevester_7]

good idea but i think they should replace the iceclimbers if the iceclimbers are going to be kicked out. they would be an awesome team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[McFox]

The Ice Climbers are not getting kicked.

McFox, although my computer is crappy and won't load your pics, I'll assume those are Pikachu, Plusle, and Minun respectively. And by the way, Black/Light countered you.

That's convenient for you, so now you don't have to say anything about it? Your entire argument as of a couple of days ago was that "Plusle and Minun aren't mice, they're Plus and Minus animals," which is completely stupid.

Yeah, Japan likes them, but so? That's why Pichu's in. And Japan likes a lot of Pokemon. Aren't they nuts for baby-Snorlax and Lucario too? And luckily for us, one of those is actually a good choice for the game (I'll give you a hint, it isn't baby-Snorlax).

 

[Pyr0]

well, its better than pichu....

but no, munchlax will go first!

 

[Omadon]

Yang, you're on to something. Assuming Dr. Mario and Young Link return, why not implement them as alternate costumes/alter ego's? With the power of the Wii, I am sure the developers could change Mario's fireballs into capsules just by a costume switch.

And Pichu could EASILY be Plusle or Minun, because if you remember, one of Peach's alternate costumes was Daisy, and they are two completely different beings, this also goes for Mario wearing Wario's clothes.

EDIT FROM LIKE 10 MINUTES IN THE FUTURE - THIS BIT ISNT IMPORTANT, IT'S JUST ME RANTING

Okay, I read through the first page of this - got to your posts, and decided that instead of responding to the topic as a whole, I just wanted to, at least for the forseeable future. Pick at everything you say or do.

Basicaly - with the whole costume change thing, your effectivley mashing two -totaly- different characters into one button, which is.. err.. pointless? It's like comparing Fox and Falco, who play totaly differently. Just because aestheticaly their similar doesnt mean you can lump them onto the same button - likewise Doc and Mario play totaly differently.

Furthermore - I don't care anymore. I've read the more recent bits of this thread and I've actualy forgotten everything you've said.

Now onto something actualy on topic! :D

I personaly think that they could be an interesting idea - instead of being the grab-happy freaks that the ICs were (I say that in a loving way - I adore them as characters) screw their grabs over with Pika/Pichus impotent grab range - and make them pretty much like faster Pichus that follow each other like magnets. I think I'm going to be pretty much alone on this, but has anyone ever played Chaotix Crew on the Mega32X? It was an obscure, and short-lived megadrive subconsole that you shoved on top, but the game was FANTASTIC, and one idea that reminds me of them - the ability to remain magneticaly attached to player two, so at some parts of the game, you'd have to jump to a ledge, and then use the other player to slingshot somewhere else.

In short - I hope - I think they should be very similar to ICs, but desynch them a bit more liberaly, as because of the proposed crappy grab range - heinous chainthrowing shouldent be toooo much of an issue, and perhaps have their neutralB work at any point, reguardless of weather or not your being hit, and allow you to change which one is the lead. Perhaps having whichever one you werent in control of generaly following almost magneticaly - not really mimicing moves, but simply running about after you, and (somehow) following along with recovery moves (Not sure how to impliment that - I havent thought that far), So you could maybe start charging a forward B (I'm assuming their similar to Pichu in this reguard - not as a suggestion for how they should be, but as an example of how their desynching could work) and then as the first one takes off, you tap B, and take over the other (Perhaps the one you're in control of could be the one that looks "Charged", as it were - a bolt of energy jumps between the two with no other in game effect), and then run behind the first to shorthop a NAir into them as they jump over, or if they block, you grab - presuming that was possible, if you grab them, you start tapping A, and then hit B after the one you just sent flying stops leaping through the air, turn round and CC an USmash into their back while your partner is holding them o.o

IT WOULD BE SO COOL.

But - they would still be as light as Pichu, so despite being crazyfast ultra-techy rodents of doom, like three arials from Ganon = pwn D:

HOWEVER. Perhaps their downB (Or some other B Move) Could work like the magnet effect I mentioned earlier, so say one of you goes flying - you swap to the other and mash downB and they swing back towards you - still perhaps keeping their momentum, but working like a super DI, so that they could recover easier - thus counterbalancing the ****ty weight issue... kinda. And also probably leaning to weird semi-infinite jump combo things where one switches and swings the other round/rinse/repeat. Obviously make sure it doesnt go too OTT, but the concept is fantastic.

Soyeah. I had hoped that would be short, but I kinda failed >.> I'm going to bed - anyone who can be arsed to read the interesting bits of that - what do you think? o.o

 

[marthsword]

Dont need them, dont really need pichu, but if u luigified/ completely changed his moveset you could keep him. we really dont need plusle and minun.

 

[Omadon]

Dont need them, dont really need pichu, but if u luigified/ completely changed his moveset you could keep him. we really dont need plusle and minun.

Don't need? Who gives a **** about don't need? I hate people who say this >:0 You don't give me reasons why, you just diss the character. Forget what the character is, aestheticaly, and look at it from a how-it-would-play point of view. The potential for a desynch-based lightweight character is amazing.

Furthermore - with online capacity - thus meaning future upgrades, they don't Need to make them as a release character, but maybe let them loose later.

Actualy, something just clicked - there really isnt any reason, almost ever, to say that a given character shouldent be permitted. Admittedly certain characters are of a vastly different nature to the games current context (IE: Duke Nukem wouldent exactly fit the family atmosphere the game has kinda held to in the past), Plusle and Miniun have nothing glaringly wrong with them - admitedly they were spawned by an infernal desire for more pikachu clones, but beyond that, their fine. Just consider the potential for how they could play. Makes me happy in the pants o.o

 

[MikaRabidKitsune]

I say forget Plusle, Minun and Pichu. GAINT RAICHU UNIT ZERO FTW!

No I'm just kidden, but I am starting to think about them. They may have a chance of being in there.

Not that I am for the electric, mice, or what-ever they are pokemon. They do seem to be popular so I won't completely rule them out.

 

[Black/Light]

Yeah, Japan likes them, but so? That's why Pichu's in. And Japan likes a lot of Pokemon. Aren't they nuts for baby-Snorlax and Lucario too? And luckily for us, one of those is actually a good choice for the game (I'll give you a hint, it isn't baby-Snorlax).

Well Pichu got into melee because he was greatly liked by Japan and was their 2nd gen mascot. Jpuff got in because she was greatly liked there and was their 1st gen mascot. P&M are greatly liked there and are their 3rd gen mascots. . . .So yeah, Japan liking them does have a hand in their chances along with them being unique replacements for another character(Pichu).
And like it or not Munch has a chance too. . . .he is their 4th gen mascot. But I would think that they would choose Lucario because Japan/ Us/ Uk likes him so he would be like the M2 pick (a pick most people in each area would agree with).
And no, I don't know many pokemon liked in Japan as much as the pokemon mascots they choose for their gens so if they put/ add in a pokemon liked greatly in Japan than it will most-likely be one of their pokemon mascots.

 

[some random freak]

no more rats i mean i enjoy destroying pika and pichu but 4 is too much.

 

[Yellow Mage]

Thank you, Lord Rust, for getting the point of this post across. Magnetism makes a great incentive for a new kind of combo, too. . .

One move that I REALLY want in the game, though, to emphasize the teamwork factor, is Baton Pass.

Baton Pass would make an AWESOME Down B, as with it, Plusle and Minun can switch thier positions of primary and secondary, thus effectively changing who the player controls. This can obviously only be done when P & M are right next to each other. This will NOT effect damage in ANY way, shape, or form, and each of the cute polarities keeps thier own individual damage count, like the Ice Climbers, but Baton Pass would add a whole new depth to the game!

Another thing: it is NOT overpowered, though the potential for comboing is great, there is still the minor animation lag factor, as well as the lack of freedom to do it any time you want, prevent it from being over, or under, powered in any way.

 

[Omadon]

Actualy - I say make Baton Pass work at absolutly any point whatsoever o.o It would give them craaazzy desynching potential in exchange for having Pichu's weight/grab range.

 

[ninja232]

We already have 2 electric rodents, why on earth would we want more? There are much better pokemon, and much better "IC" style characters (IE, Hammer Bros, Diddy and Dixie. ect)

basicly what the master mic posted and if any pokemon was in new it'd be meouth because meaouth(spelling?) is really popular and only he can talk

 

[highandmightyjoe]

As much as I loved both the IC's and Pichu in Melee I am kind of hoping for both to be removed in Brawl. One of my biggest problems with double characters is that in Melee their main weakness was that Nana was a complete moron. However, on a new console their will likely be better AI meaning that the other character won't neccesarily be so stupid and therefore they would lose one of their major weaknesses, possibly making them unbalanced(not that Smash has ever been all that balanced anyway). As far as Pichu goes, he was basically the bad on purpose character. Most fighter's have one, there just put in so a good player can choose them and humilate their friends as they beat them with a crappy character. Brawl will most likely have one of these but I would be more interested in seeing what new character they could make like that instead of just bringing back the old one. Also if Pichu gets taken out Pikachu could get some of his abilities to make him better.

As far as Plusle and Minun themselves, I really never liked them. If a new double character absolutely had to be in I would go with the Hammer Bros. They are much more deserving, cooler, and since they also use hammers like the IC's and are about the same height, they wouldn't be all that hard to program, basically a clone of the IC's to replace them as they get taken out. But still, I would rather have none at all.

On a side note their is one double character I would be completely in favor of, however their is little to no chance of them appearing. Does anyone want to guess where there from?

DOUBLE DRAGON!!!

 

[Yellow Mage]

First off: Hammer Bros who?

And, second off, what Mic says is not law (unless it's moderator stuff, duh), and the anime has little to no standing on what is Pokemon.

Even if it did, you're completely overlooking that Team Rocket's Meowth was the only one who could talk, as well as many Psychic/Legendary pokemon plus a few others could speak as well.

My two cents.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

If you have played Mario you know the hammer bros. There two turtles, with knee pads, and helmets, that carry hammers with them. They often throw the hammers as their attack. In Mario and Luigi superstar saga(one of my favorite hand held games ever) they where allies that taught you some new techniques. They are popular, cool, have been in several games, and as I said would be easy to make. Not only are they about the same size as the IC's but they also use hammers, and for their ground hugging projectile, they could use the stomp attack that makes a trail of fire go along the ground, true I don't think the HB actually did that, but it was a move from one of the other Mario enemies that was basically identical to them. But still, I don't want double characters, I was just saying that if there was one, I would want it to be them. I will miss the IC's though, not for there gameplay though, just because I like them. I am one of the only people I know who has actually played, and really enjoyed the Ice Climber's arcade game. So in Melee I attempted to main them for a while. Not much of a fan of them in Melee. And for the reasons I already mentioned earlier, as well as others mentioned by other people, I hope they get taken out.

And with Plusle and Minun, they just aren't popular, nor cool. They would be incredibly light, possibly lighter than Pichu, there moves would be similar(not identical but still similar) to Pikachu's, and lightning, as well as fire for that matter wouldn't work well with a double character. Many of Pikachu's moves have a long duration. For example look at Pichu's forward smash, he lets a ball of lightning sit in front of him for a decently long time, if you could desync and alternate between them doing that then you would have a never ending smash. The same goes for basically all of the lightning moves, the duration is so long that staggering them from one character to another would make the attacks practicly never-ending.

 

[Omadon]

The same goes for basically all of the lightning moves, the duration is so long that staggering them from one character to another would make the attacks practicly never-ending.

In which someone walks behind you and smashes you? O.o

Furthermore, just because their like Pikachu, doesnt mean that their attacks have to be - people need to stop saying "If they happened they would probably have this". Instead - "If they happened - they should have something like this to stop them being a ****ty pichu clone" - Yes, there are many ways Nintendo could **** up making them, and have them as another kinda pants character, but there are so many ways they could do otherwise. Just think of the possibilitys o.o

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I don't see how they could walk up and attack you from behind, since you could have one attacking in the front and the other doing the same move behind. And regardless of weither they have the same moves or not they would be bound to have at least some lightning moves, and for the most part that means a long duration, which could be highly abused on a double character.

 

[Naota-Kun]

I love Pokemon and all but I think Minun and Plusle are unnneccessary since there are more popular and better Pokemon out their than them and it just would be unoriginal to have an Ice Climbers like duo in Brawl since Ice Climbers were the homage to that in Melee. Besides, we already have rodent-like Pokemon in Smash as it is (Pikachu and Pichu but two is enough). Also Pikachu in the games are better than Minun and Plusle.

 

[Dokuro]

pichu bros. > plusle and minun lolz

hah, no, P&M are okay. They're "original" atleast. I still like Pichu bros. better though, they have those Pokemon Channel movies, and those movie specials...

 

[Naota-Kun]

Pichu Brothers are the ownage. Maybe that is a possible improvement for Pichu? Pichu can simply just be one of the Pichu Brothers and calls his other brother in with the scruffed fur on his head?

 

[Dokuro]

Pichu Brothers are the ownage

<3

Maybe that is a possible improvement for Pichu? Pichu can simply just be one of the Pichu Brothers and calls his other brother in with the scruffed fur on his head?

Yeah, sure. The Pichu bros. can be abit heavier and stronger, an improvement for Pichu.

 

[Black/Light]

And with Plusle and Minun, they just aren't popular, nor cool. They would be incredibly light, possibly lighter than Pichu, there moves would be similar(not identical but still similar) to Pikachu's, and lightning, as well as fire for that matter wouldn't work well with a double character. Many of Pikachu's moves have a long duration. For example look at Pichu's forward smash, he lets a ball of lightning sit in front of him for a decently long time, if you could desync and alternate between them doing that then you would have a never ending smash. The same goes for basically all of the lightning moves, the duration is so long that staggering them from one character to another would make the attacks practicly never-ending.

One, you must not know much about pokemon popularity in Japan. They are the 3rd gen mascots over there and are highly loved there.(look back a page or 2 at the pokejet . . . they had a HUGE place on it.)

Than you say they would be lighter than Pichu? Why would a 2 pokemon team in which both are the same size as Pichu be lighter? If any thing I would think they would be between Pichu and Pika in heavyness.

And just because Pika has on going lightning attacks means they will? Im sorry but the only reason Im even replying to you is because you remind me (somewhat) of the Blaziken haters that go on about her being a falcon clone because of fighting/ fire (even if she is well know for doing kicks and leg attacks which would more so make her a 90-05% kick attacker). There are MANY ways around this seeing as they are a team and could replace the "on going lightningx2" attacks with team-work/ tag team attacks. One has + energy, the other has - energy. . . .I GOT IT!!! They could have vSmash where the lead one charges up and once the charge is done the other could (with lightning charged around it) orbit/ spin around the lead one once or twice (I guess that could be a vB). OR their >smash could be like that but the non-lead one is sent flying forward with lightning charged around it. . .stays there for a bit, than is pulled back by the others energy or just jumps back really fast (And I JUST thought of that off the top of my head. . . Im sure Sakurai can do way better). They are a TEAM. . . thats what they are made for. . . TEAM work. So I see no reason why they would both do a on going >smash like Pika when they could work together as one. Hell, those 2 attacks I made out of no where could be seen as ONE lightning attack made by TWO characters so no, it wouldn't be any/ much longer or any more abused than Pika's lightning attacks.

Like it or not, they do have a high chance of being in brawl and they are VERY unique even if they are the same type as Pika.
(And even if they are desyned in some attacks that in no way means they have to be doing a purely lightning attack. . . the divs can make up NEW lightning moves that are part body/ part lightning and are non on going with them being desyned.)

 

[Naota-Kun]

Than you say they world be lighter than Pichu? Why would a 2 pokemon team in which both are the same size as Pichu be lighter? If any thing I would think they would be between Pichu and Pika in heavyness.

Minun and Plusle are over twice Pichu's weight. They'd probably be on par with Pikachu or if not slightly higher than Pikachu since there is two of them.

 

[Black/Light]

BUMP, cause Im getting tried of the Pichu thread and I had some good points on this one. . . .

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

well, black/light, im not going to try to cause an argument but im going to go by one of your beliefs, give gamers what they want. would gamers really want P&M? im pretty sure the majority of us are sick of electric rats. there are plenty of other types of pokemon that gamers would prefer.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

BUMP, cause Im getting tried of the Pichu thread and I had some good points on this one. . . .

Well,that was a preety idiotic reason to revive this crappy topic.


The bottom line is that the characters inclusion is completely blasphamous.Why would you want more electric rats?

I really don't feel like explaining this,but i believe that some well supported comments showing this characters inferiority have been made on the first page of the topic.

 

[Black/Light]

well, black/light, im not going to try to cause an argument but im going to go by one of your beliefs, give gamers what they want. would gamers really want P&M? im pretty sure the majority of us are sick of electric rats. there are plenty of other types of pokemon that gamers would prefer.

If you read back some odd amount of pages you would see my stand on them. In all truefulness I laid the smash down on this topic

Well,that was a preety idiotic reason to revive this crappy topic.

If you think so than it's pretty idiotic to post on it. . . .which keeps it on the front page. . . .which keeps it alive longer than it would have been had you said nothing

If you think it's a bad topic than coo. . . . don't reply to it. It will most likely die soon for the fact that Yellow Mage doesn't seem to be to active and Im BUMPING it just because I like their uniqueness. It's better than just making a new topic and it's smarter to just not reply if you think it's better off dead.

Actually, Im not going to touch on EPF's post. Im pretty sure I said about as much to him as I needed in earlyer post on this topic.

 

[Tom]

Well,that was a preety idiotic reason to revive this crappy topic.


The bottom line is that the characters inclusion is completely blasphamous.Why would you want more electric rats?

I really don't feel like explaining this,but i believe that some well supported comments showing this characters inferiority have been made on the first page of the topic.

I don't think its blasphamous (nice choice of a word there lol) at all to think that Plusle and Minun could be in Brawl. They're popular as hell in Japan, they're pretty much the mascots of the 3rd gen series of pkmn, and I dont think that "we have two electric rats already" cuts it.

We have Mario, Luigi, and Doc Mario already... why would they make Wario? Theyre as close as Pikachu, Pichu, and P+M. The Pokemon franchise is almost just as strong as Super Mario.

 

[McFox]

This is still a stupid idea.

Don't bump topics unless you actually have something to say.

 

[Stryks]

This is quite the worst (possible)* suggestion so far, i mean, pichu sucked in smash, and these guys aint exactly awesome, do we really want 2 more cute mouse pokemon? or do we want kick *** pkmn like deoxys or lucario?...

*: note the possible, cause these guys are possible, unlike other suggestions, like master chief, or marvel characters...

 

[DRD]

And there's also the problem that if P&M sucked in the Pokemon games, they'll suck in Smash.

I know what i'm talking about, I bred a pair of perfect Plusles and Minuns and raised them to 100, they still suck.

 

[Black/Light]

^^^M2 was kick a$$ in the pokemon games. . . . why doesn't he own in Smash? Cause they arnt the same?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I don't think its blasphamous (nice choice of a word there lol) at all to think that Plusle and Minun could be in Brawl. They're popular as hell in Japan, they're pretty much the mascots of the 3rd gen series of pkmn, and I dont think that "we have two electric rats already" cuts it.

We have Mario, Luigi, and Doc Mario already... why would they make Wario? Theyre as close as Pikachu, Pichu, and P+M. The Pokemon franchise is almost just as strong as Super Mario.

I'm not being bias based upon the scale of popularity,i'm being bias because they are the same as Pikachu(Electric Rats).I'm only saying why cant we think outside of these rodents and include a diffirent kind of Pokemon.

I would personally prefer Rukario(Lucario).

 

[Jaxi]

The thing is that Pichu is most likely being removed, I'm almost sure of it and Plusle and Minun could replace it.

I would like to have Blaziken or some other cool pokémon in Brawl more than P&S, though.
There are so many good pokémon for smash.