Playing "gay"

[weon - X]

You're getting hit with a move that will force you to tech... then you miss the tech... then you get jab reset...

BUT, ofc if you are up a stock, she cant rest you and if shes above ~50%, its trading stocks

doesn't sound as bad when you put it that way imo

do you really think you deserve that much of a reward after your opponent misses a tech? I can understand getting death combo'd of a jab reset but you can't even SDI jigg's jab since its so weak. There's no need for guessing/back up plan/reaction time. Its all systematic.

dont get me wrong fox is hella hella gay and so is his bird brother. but that jab reset thingy goes second on my list of the cheesiest kills. wobbling is first.

 

[Mahone]

well, with your recent edit apearing magically in front of me, i can definitely agree with you on that

that aspect of her game is TOO strong imo, i would prefer if it was weaker, but overall i would prefer if she was better, so i don't think its fair to call her character as a whole gay (which i know u werent doing)...

if u wanna call jab-reset resting gay, then sure, its pretty cheap

 

[phish-it]

Those percents are just general even though it happens on Yoshi Story.

 

[Mahone]

jiggs upthrow rest kills at like 0 on yoshis

the way you wrote it implied that jiggs needed to throw fox at 50% to kill him

 

[phish-it]

Even if it didn't kill till 50 I bet people would still call it gay

 

[weon - X]

yeah for the record i wasnt even talking about uthrow rest (even though when theres platforms its like >_>)
I only hate those specific situations when jigg's punishes are super duper strong. I think shes rather vulnerable while bairing. anyways thats how this game is. gotta land my techs i guess or else i will inevitably explode in agony.

phish-it : they'd prolly still call it gay. I still feel cheesy as falcon when i dthrow knee lol

 

[EPsilon933]

Captain Falcon is secretly a gay character. When you mess up, he can combo you for forever and end you with a Knee. Like, wtf?

 

[R2_GP]

@mahone We can sit here all day arguing what makes "a good melee player" everybody has his own opinion about that, and is true obviously high level jiggs's are different, but in the end we still have one jigglypuff do more of one thing or less than another and one x character trying to adapt and stay away from a char that doesn't really need to go out there and works his hits, and we'll keep having this 40 mins sets, but what can we do right? i'll be playing this game for 11 years in a few months, and i don't remember so much camp in this game until two years ago.
i respect your opinion though , your an amazing player too.

 

[Mahone]

ya, i don't enjoy those 40 minute sets either... but both of those players have to choose to play like that for the sets to take that long

it has nothing to do with jiggs or ylink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcAMwiiKhbQ

this game took 2.5 minutes and both the players were high level players playing jiggs vs ylink


im not saying its right to call hbox or armada gay, im just saying that one set doesnt make jiggs as a character gay, and ur other reasonings for calling jiggs gay don't seem to be enough

 

[R2_GP]

ya, i don't enjoy those 40 minute sets either... but both of those players have to choose to play like that for the sets to take that long

it has nothing to do with jiggs or ylink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcAMwiiKhbQ

this game took 2.5 minutes and both the players were high level players playing jiggs vs ylink


im not saying its right to call hbox or armada gay, im just saying that one set doesnt make jiggs as a character gay, and ur other reasonings for calling jiggs gay don't seem to be enough

but you do understand why now so many people call this a gay character right? is not that all puff mains have a gay playstyle, in fact i do remember enjoying The king combo videos, i think is logical when people dislike her way of winning matches

 

[Mahone]

i still don't really understand it because to me it doesn't make sense to let one player's playstyle in one matchup define a whole character

especially when the only other great jiggs, mango, did some of the most interesting things ive ever seen in this game

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, DD rest. REAL original, bro.

Everyone knows the tier list is determined by how broken a character's down-B is, which is why the top 4 characters are invincible during theirs.

 

[Dr Peepee]

generally, most people consider playing extremely defensively or in such a way that keeps interaction from happening fairly often as "gay."

mango full hopping with every character is gay, but that's it for my list.

it's all subjective! saying it's all subjective is not a good discussion topic though! talk about your own strange criteria and WHYYYY

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yeah, Mango's full hops are pretty lame.

And Epsilon, SHHHH. You'll upset the fanboys!

 

[R2_GP]

generally, most people consider playing extremely defensively or in such a way that keeps interaction from happening fairly often as "gay."

mango full hopping with every character is gay, but that's it for my list.

it's all subjective! saying it's all subjective is not a good discussion topic though! talk about your own strange criteria and WHYYYY

i think i heard mango say the same thing about your laser game some time ago (imo your laser game is genius), Javi full hopped many of your lasers too, but that's playing defensive in a more intuitive way, and it doesn't has anything to do with the fact that is falco or fox, the fact is that jiggs can't take the flow of a match, she depends of your mistakes or you good will of keeping the match fluid

 

[Wake]

All the top tiers are extremely lame. That's what makes them so good. They're all just absurd and dumb.

 

[PGH Carroll]

And Doc.
Docs gay AF too.

 

[EPsilon933]

And Epsilon, SHHHH. You'll upset the fanboys!

NO! I want to whine about how whiny Peach players are!

All the top tiers are extremely lame. That's what makes them so good. They're all just absurd and dumb.

It's fun to have broken characters and do broken things

 

[Wake]

Very fun indeed.

 

[odinNJ]

gayness goes like,
most of the top tiers
down dodges
battlefield's ledge
falcon/marth
FOD
mario bros

 

[Wake]

YL should be on there somewhere.

 

[R:U:N]

battlefield's ledge
battlefield's ledge
battlefield's ledge
battlefield's ledge

 

[Shadow Huan]

there is video proof of top level players being killed because Melee Battlefield's ledge randomly decided to hate them.

it's one of the wonkier ledges in the entire game lol

 

[I R MarF]

I agree with whoever said that playing lame is basically playing in a non-crowd pleasing manner. Players who are abusing a safe play-to-win tactic that prevents interesting interactions are lumped in the lame or "gay" category.

You can't really blame people who play lame though since this is more of a game of capitalization than it is offense. The only character that might be able to play rushdown and be safe while doing it is Falco since he has lasers which zone hard and give him a ton of mix up opportunities and openings. The most offensive capable character after Falco is probably Fox... and that'd be by significant margin because Fox still has to dashdance and look for openings like most characters.

 

[MaskedMarth]

Falco is pretty asexual..

I think it's just how crowd-pleasing you are. It's fickle. We just live in a time where everyone's rah-rah-go-offense and in a metagame where Jiggs and Peach can deny that.

 

[Svetsunov]

Marth makes me want to shoot myself. Screw your Fsmash. Screw your Fair. Screw your grab range being twice as large as mine. Screw everything -___-

 

[ShroudedOne]

NO! I want to whine about how whiny Peach players are!

...

You know he does those combos to most of the cast, right? Not just Peach? You baffle me.

 

[EPsilon933]

Falco's the best at aggro. 2nd best is Fox

3rd best is Peach. Approaching with her is so safe. she has turnips which force the opponent to do something and she has lagless floats. They can not be punished. She's just really slow mobiley so people don't realize it

...

You know he does those combos to most of the cast, right? Not just Peach? You baffle me.

I baffle everyone

 

[Ryobeat]

3rd best is Peach.

._________.

 

[Xyzz]

I actually like people who rate their own character higher than the average smasher does (unless they are low tier mains. No, your character is not "not that bad" :D).

Not that I necessarily agree. I think Peach is not too good at playing a truly offensive style, she just isn't fast enough for it and can't make up for it by sending in lasers (turnips are like worse lasers with higher start up commitment). Sure if she is allowed to get in on you, she is super good since her stuff is safe on hit / block and her downsmash is a great tool for disparaging crouch canceling. That however is just a part of playing offensive and being better than "good enough" is not that valuable.
You need to be able to get in on people and then have stuff that is good against their defensive options.
Fox has the speed and dd game to force favorable approach options and his nair / dair are good against shields, because he has the shine to back them up. Falco has a similar vs shield game, and while he doesn't have the speed of Fox he has his laser game. Next is CF in my book (note: isolated offensive game, CF is super bad defensive wise and therefore clearly worse than characters who aren't as good as him at approaching). He is even faster than fox... so fast that he can sh from one PS platform to the other, so everything in that range is pretty much in danger of being attacked by him immediately. His stuff is pretty decent against shield: fair actually has frame advantage, nair can be spaced really well, and his jabs are really good for stuffing oos responses, plus there's always the threat of him simply grabbing you since well... he is fast, and can combo off his throws really well (or directly kill with u / d throw to knee against many characters (Sheik, Peach, Marth come to mind and against spacies he gets good techchases at the very least... it's not like you had to do too much to spacies to make them die :D). I think after that I would name Peach / Pikachu, since they are really good at some part, but it doesn't do too much for them because they are lacking in some other department (peach doesn't get in too well, Pikachu doesn't really get valuable stuff from it compared to the high tiers).

 

[Boat Mode]

Anything other than Falcon dittos tbh

 

[ShroudedOne]

[ignore this]

 

[EPsilon933]

[ignore this]

I'm too late too see what you wrote

 

[Myztek]

Battlefield's ledge isn't just random.

It only causes you to not grab if you're holding toward the ledge or down. Just let your control stick go to neutral when you get near the ledge and you're good.

 

[Jockmaster]

I think playing gay is when you only abuse one or two really good moves. Whether it's because you suck too much or if you genuinely use those moves at a high level, it is gay.

For example, I have a scrub friend who plays marth and all he does is camp like a *** and use fsmash. Needless to say I **** him mercilessly, but it's still gay as ****.

I think the whole "crowd pleaser" argument just ties in to this

 

[Rockenos]

I think playing gay is when you only abuse one or two really good moves. Whether it's because you suck too much or if you genuinely use those moves at a high level, it is gay.

For example, I have a scrub friend who plays marth and all he does is camp like a *** and use fsmash. Needless to say I **** him mercilessly, but it's still gay as ****.

I think the whole "crowd pleaser" argument just ties in to this

Hmmm... But would a Falco who only uses fair and uair be gay? Probably not.
I'm pretty sure you just meant when it's GOOD, just pointing this out lol

 

[Shadow Huan]

Battlefield's ledge isn't just random.

It only causes you to not grab if you're holding toward the ledge or down. Just let your control stick go to neutral when you get near the ledge and you're good.

whether or not it's random, a ledge that kills you if you hold toward it while recovering def qualfies as "wonky" to me lol

 

[KrIsP!]

saying "that's how he plays" sounds like a John to me, also, you have to keep in mind that this two moves are not just something you just ignore and counter right away, this "two" moves are the main issue with jiggs "metagame" if you approach you'll probably get hit in the face, if you get grabbed you're dead.... it's not the fact that she has this kind of moves, the fact is people seriously over use them.

There's just this itching feeling in me that you've never really played a puff main, either I've hit the nail on the head or I'm way off but I'm taking a stab.

Jiggs has a lot of safe options which can be used to counter overly aggerssive players which is exactly what they need, a smack in the face to show them approaching all the time isn't a good option. On the other hand she's floaty and can get into that percent where nothing works but all the high tiers and above have good options for killing her as well as some really weird mid tier match ups.

I'd like to hear more of the only two moves she uses, because i bet you I can name two moves overused for every character. Fact is she has a terrible ground game and makes up for it with 5 aerials which are required to be used, bair and rest don't win a game, mostly because rest is never an option out of bair. A lot of people like to talk **** but really it's just nother match up to learn for your character assuming your not playing yoshi or something.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

when you 'play' gay, you're playing to win, and though you can be criticized for it, it's the other guy's responsibility to learn how to beat you - and when he does, he becomes far better than you are (because he can bait you out of your camping/spamming/lucky gayness)

but when your character is gay, it's because your character can pull off relatively powerful moves with relatively little ease (e.g. ike in p:m) which throws off the struggle-reward system for other characters. so it's no surprise when some ness player gets pissed because a peach is spamming turnips and dsmash or a marth just outranges everything he has.

~
and worst, there's the combination of the two, i.e. falco, where the combination of falco's moveset and spamming tech skill can usually get you pretty far - there's a larger margin up to a point where you just don't really have to try.

 

[bËst^]

Something I usually feel as being "gay" is crouch canceling overally. I'm not saying that people shoyldn't be using it (it is big factor in metagame overally) but I found myself getting punished when my opponent CC's my gamestyle >_>