Platform Fighter Exploration Thread: Round 117: General RAAM

[fogbadge]

I just wanted to voice an opinion

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Anyway, the real question is how much music they can get in. Cause well, that's important too. Sure, it's not the same scenario as Smash(which requires a minimum of 2 songs per playable franchise/series).

 

[Yiptap]

If there's an assist mechanic in this hypothetical Disney Platform Fighter, I think Xenomorph would be an awesome choice for that.

Anyway, any stage ideas for Predator?

 

[Gengar84]

If there's an assist mechanic in this hypothetical Disney Platform Fighter, I think Xenomorph would be an awesome choice for that.

Anyway, any stage ideas for Predator?

I think the most iconic setting for a stage is the jungle in the first movie. Predator 2 was set in a city but I don’t think it really resonates as well as a jungle with a hunter like Predator.

If Alien wasn’t able to be it’s own character for some reason, I definitely think they should at least be referenced through Predator somehow. Predator and Aliens are basically enemies so I’m not sure if an assist makes a ton of sense but it would be cool nonetheless. I think Alien Queen would make an awesome final battle for a classic style campaign.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the most iconic setting for a stage is the jungle in the first movie. Predator 2 was set in a city but I don’t think it really resonates as well as a jungle with a hunter like Predator.

If Alien wasn’t able to be it’s own character for some reason, I definitely think they should at least be referenced through Predator somehow. Predator and Aliens are basically enemies so I’m not sure if an assist makes a ton of sense but it would be cool nonetheless. I think Alien Queen would make an awesome final battle for a classic style campaign.

What area did Mortal Kombat use when it had Predator as a Guest? Forest area? I have noticed it being common for some Robot Chicken skits.

 

[Schnee117]

What area did Mortal Kombat use when it had Predator as a Guest? Forest area? I have noticed it being common for some Robot Chicken skits.

Predator didn't get a stage (none of the guests outside of Kratos ever have) but X already had a pre-existing jungle stage which they used for the trailer

 

[amageish]

Okay, it seems like it's about time to move on now...

Spoiler: The Noms List

50-75 noms
Azura - x80
Bubsy - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Ahri - x60
Jack Frost - x60
Opa-Opa - x55
Chell - x52

26-50 noms
2B - x40
Max (Shining Force) - x40
Taliyah - x40
Jonesy - x37
Trauma Center Content - x32
Alphen and/or Shionne - x30
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Stella (Spiritfarer) - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
King Harkinian - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
SMT Content - x25
Daitoryo - x25
Clockman (NASB) - x20
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Darkest Dungeon Content - x16
BJ Blazkowicz - x15
Rango (NASB) - x15
Ezio - x15
Gunvolt - x15

5-10 noms
Pauline - x10
Kiryu Kazuma - x10
Lobotomy Corporation/Library of Ruina Content - x7
Jack (Final Fantasy Origin) - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Frogger - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Ahri - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3

Spoiler: Usable Noms

Commander_Alph - x20
Dan Quixote - x25
Gengar84 - x55
DanganZilla5 - x10
GolisoPower - x10
fogbadge - x15
Schnee117 - x20
amageish - x20
Verde Coeden Scalesworth - x25
Yiptap - x15

Next up is Commander Shepard from Mass Effect!

Spoiler: Shepard Music Sampler

 

[Yiptap]

I don't know about Commander Shepard, so I'll be sitting this round out.

Noms: Jack Frost x20

 

[DanganZilla5]

I don't know much about Shepard since I'm still early into Mass Effect 1 but so far I dig him. He has some really cool weapons and Mass Effect has a very interesting world. For those of you who are more familiar with Mass Effect, what are some of the cool guns from later on in the game that Shepard could use in his moveset?

Noms: B.J Blazkowicz x10

 

[GolisoPower]

Mass Effect is an interesting topic for Smash since it did so much for the game industry that of course Commander Shepherd would be on the radar for next Smash fighter! Question is, though, how would they play? Mass Effect is a third-person shooter like Splatoon, so we could take from both Joker and Inkling for some gun mechanics, but the main draw of Mass Effect is the story: the first two games were extremely open-ended in how their stories played out, but that would be extremely difficult to replicate in Smash. I guess we could just focus on the combat, but somehow I don't feel like that would represent Mass Effect that well.

Noms: All in on Ahri.

 

[Schnee117]

Shepard.
Wrex.
Shepard.
Wrex.

For starters the best Mass Effect track:

Shepard is the main playable character of the Mass Effect trilogy and is a customisable player avatar character. You can choose between male and female, their background, customise their look and choose their class. The latter is important as it informs what weapons and abilities Shepard is more proficient at. Regardless though Shepard always becomes a Spectre in Mass Effect 1, which is basically a secret agent/super cop type deal with access to extra resources and weapons.

Sticking with the general default, Shepard is the Soldier class, so they specialise in using weapons first and foremost with the ability to provide themselves with temporary buffs, switching between various ammo types and throwing grenades. They don't have access to biotics (to put it in a not entirely correct but broad category, it's kinda like a very limited space magic) or tech abilities in this class.

Mass Effect 3 adds the Omni-Blade to their arsenal which is a universal strong melee attack mechanic that can one shot most fodder and deal heavy damage otherwise, it also does more damage if done from behind, perfect for a Smash attack.

The general weapon types in Mass Effect are Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols and Sniper Rifles with a select few heavy weapons and Sub Machine guns being added in later games. I didn't really use Shotguns too much and Assault Rifles in ME1 were awful IMO so my input on them is limited more to 2 and 3. These would work as you would expect them to. Weapon systems also generally change between 1 and 2. Where ME1 had an overheat system, 2 onwards opts for a more traditional reload mechanic with an in universe justification towards overheating. They serve a similar function regardless.

Where Shepard shines is with the Concussive Shot, Adrenaline Rush, weapon abilities, ammo types and grenades as well as directing their squadmates, more on them later.

The Concussive Shot is a projectile fired from whatever gun is equipped and knocks the opponent off their feet, it can knock them off platforms in some instances even.

Adrenaline Rush slows time down so Shepard can line up better, more accurate shots.

With weapon abilities, Overkill allows for much longer times to fire the AR at the expense of accuracy, good for up close encounters. Marksman lets pistols fire quicker and more accurately but costs more overheat. Carnage fires a devastating blast from the Shotgun that deals heavy damage to enemies that are really close. Assassination ensures that the next Sniper Rifle shot deals increased damage, but only the next shot, don't miss.

ME2 and 3 add in ammo type abilities for Shepard to use, Soldier by default comes with Disruptor (shreds shields), Fire (destroys health and armour) and Cryo (can freeze the foe and take them out the fight and make them vulnerable to a Concussive Shot shattering them).

3 added in Grenades and they're about what you'd expect.

Shepard also comes with Unity, which is a healing ability for reviving squadmates and has limited usage.

Now for where ME really shines, the Squadmates.
The bread and butter of combat (and exploration in 1) is using your squadmates and their abilities to your advantage.

Garrus Vakarian for example is like a mix between a Soldier and an Engineer type with his focus on Weapons (namely ARs and Snipers) and some Tech abilities. He excels at taking down enemy shields quickly with overload and picking enemies off from a distance, he can also set down mines.

Liara on the other hand, is all about biotics and is able to use Warp to scramble barriers and use Lift and Singularity to pull opponents out of cover and into the line of fire.

There are an abundance of other squadmates to use like Wrex (Biotic/Soldier hybrid) and Tali (Pure Engineer) as well as others introduced in later games that all have their own abilities and quirks about them, there's a lot to choose from when picking who should accompany Shepard.

Using the right squadmates and abilities at the right time can really help you learn so much more about certain characters, events and places and even really save you in a fight.

 

[GolisoPower]

With what little knowledge I have of the Mass Effect series, I can't help but wonder what the stage would be. As far as player interaction goes, the Normandy seems like a good stage, but for being central to the entire plotline, I'd say the Citadel's also a prime candidate for a Mass Effect stage. Anybody else?

 

[Dan Quixote]

Whooo Shepard time! Playing the Mass Effect trilogy through the remake from this past spring has been a serious highlight of my year, and even though I've only done one run-through of a game that I know has many, many, many branching paths and alternate endings, I can already say the universe that's built up across the series is one of my favs in gaming and several of the squadmates are some of my fav characters, too. It's gonna be hard to play it again and not get together with Tali... Schnee's laid out a perfect concept for a moveset already imo. Using a bunch of different types of guns, the special abilities like Concussive Shot or Overload as specials, and the Omni-Tool from ME3 would be perfect for smash attacks. Shepard also absolutely needs a Final Smash like Joker's where all the squadmates can have their own lines and appearances.

Since the moveset's already discussed, I guess the next problem would be talking about how to do a proper stage. It's hard to make an interesting stage for Shepard without spoilers imo. Like the Citadel is a main feature of the series but any interesting events that happen on it that would make for a cool stage are all pretty big spoilers. Like if the stage took place during Saren's invasion at the end of ME. Personally, I think a traveling stage that sort of works like Venom taking place in the mission through the canyons of Virmire might work best. That's a place from near the end of the first game, but the stage could only have normal geth enemies as stage hazards to avoid spoilers.

 

[Schnee117]

Shepard also absolutely needs a Final Smash like Joker's where all the squadmates can have their own lines and appearances.

The Citadel DLC in 3 has an almost perfect moment for this, the DLC as a whole is top tier stuff for squadmate interactions.
Wrex the GOAT

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I got nothing on Commander Shepherd. Also, all noms currently on Max(Shining Force).

 

[Dan Quixote]

The Citadel DLC in 3 has an almost perfect moment for this, the DLC as a whole is top tier stuff for squadmate interactions.
Wrex the GOAT

I did that DLC less than a month ago in the Legendary Edition and it was the beeeeest

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Azura x5

 

[amageish]

So, for context, I'm only a little bit into Mass Effect Legendary Edition, so... If I say something stupid across this thread, please forgive me!

Mass Effect is an interesting topic for Smash since it did so much for the game industry that of course Commander Shepherd would be on the radar for next Smash fighter! Question is, though, how would they play? Mass Effect is a third-person shooter like Splatoon, so we could take from both Joker and Inkling for some gun mechanics, but the main draw of Mass Effect is the story: the first two games were extremely open-ended in how their stories played out, but that would be extremely difficult to replicate in Smash. I guess we could just focus on the combat, but somehow I don't feel like that would represent Mass Effect that well.

A dialogue tree down-special sounds incredibly fun if they could make it work without being too silly (and, y'know, avoiding the pitfalls of the Hero down-special)... It could be a fun way to have Shepard get some buffs or debuff their opponents depending on what they say!

Also, obligatory question with a customizable character: How are doing them alts? Also, would FemShep get to be the default, given her comparative popularity to her male counterpart?

 

[fogbadge]

oh good grief not this guy noms to stella from spiritfarer

 

[Gengar84]

Noms:
x55 Alphen and Shionne

 

[Schnee117]

Costume wise Male Shepard would be default as he was the original version of the the character but Fem Shep can appear in alternating slots, armour colour can be customised to an extent across different permutations but the N7 would be the default.

Noms:
All in on Kiryu Kazuma

 

[Dan Quixote]

You are allowed to customize the entire face of your Commander Shepard, both male and female, so the possibility is there that each alt costume would be a totally different appearance. Knowing how Nintendo has liked to do alts so far though, my money would be on just the armor changing and only the default male and female Shepards having their face in the game.

 

[amageish]

Okay, it's been... an entire week. Let's move on, shall we?

Spoiler: The Noms List

50-75 noms
Alphen and/or Shionne - x85
Azura - x85
Jack Frost - x75
Ahri - x70
Bubsy - x70
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Max (Shining Force) - x65
Taliyah - x60
Opa-Opa - x55
Chell - x52

26-50 noms
Stella (Spiritfarer) - x45
2B - x40
Jonesy - x37
Kiryu Kazuma - x35
Trauma Center Content - x32
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
King Harkinian - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
BJ Blazkowicz - x25
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
SMT Content - x25
Daitoryo - x25
Clockman (NASB) - x20
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Darkest Dungeon Content - x16
Rango (NASB) - x15
Ezio - x15
Gunvolt - x15

5-10 noms
Pauline - x10
Lobotomy Corporation/Library of Ruina Content - x7
Jack (Final Fantasy Origin) - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Frogger - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Ahri - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3

Spoiler: Usable Noms

Commander_Alph - x20
Dan Quixote - x35
DanganZilla5 - x10
GolisoPower - x35
Schnee117 - x30
amageish - x15

Next up is some God Eater discussion! This is just a general discussion of possible representation for it in a platform fighter, so we got a lot of ground to cover~!

Spoiler: God Eater Music Sampler

 

[DanganZilla5]

I won't be able to contribute much since my only experience with God Eater is the GE 3 demo. It is a pretty good demo and God Eater seems like a lot of fun with the cool weapons and big monsters. It reminds me of Monster Hunter in a way. So I'll ask, what are some music you God Eater fans would want to see if got into a platform fighter?

Noms: B.J Blazkowicz xMax

 

[Gengar84]

I won't be able to contribute much since my only experience with God Eater is the GE 3 demo. It is a pretty good demo and God Eater seems like a lot of fun with the cool weapons and big monsters. It reminds me of Monster Hunter in a way. So I'll ask, what are some music you God Eater fans would want to see if got into a platform fighter?

Noms: B.J Blazkowicz xMax

Same here. My only experience with the series is the first episode of the anime. I don’t really know enough to comment much but what are some options for playable fighters?

 

[Schnee117]

Aw yeah

God Eater is a Monster Hunter like game but a lot more anime and with a more involved story. The series originated on the PSP so the first two titles are pretty janky but fun whilst the third is a lot more refined because it was designed with consoles and PC in mind. God Eater's are the titular monster hunters as they face off against Aragami in a post apocalyptic setting.

The general idea behind how a God Eater character should play is informed by their loadout. God Eater's weapon, the God Arc, works as such:

• You have a Melee mode, this can be a "Knife", a short blade, a long blade, a buster blade, a hammer, a polearm, a scythe, dual daggers that can combine into a staff and a Heavy Moon
• You have a Gun mode, this can be an Assault Rifle (automatic shots), a Sniper (singular long range piercing shots), a Shotgun (limited range blasts), a blast Gun (explosive shots) and a Ray Gun (continuous firing strengthens the laser).
• You have a shield and these are straightforward. Small shield that's quick to deploy but blocks less damage, towers that are slower to deploy but block a lot of damage and the middle ground.

A core part of God Eater is that the God Arc also has a devour mode and this is a key mechanic to the series. With devour you can harvest materials from dead enemies but it can be used in combat to effectively absorb a part of the foe's energy and put yourself into a brief power up state known as Burst. With burst you can move faster, deal more damage and have access to stronger moves known as Burst Arts. In the first two games you would also gain special bullets based on what the enemy can do.

To touch on the weapons themselves, I can provide two playlists showcasing what they do in God Eater 3.
Regular moves and the Burst Arts (note that YT seems to be messing up RN so just use the arrows in the bottom right of the embed or let the videos fully playout to get to the next video in the list).

One thing separating God Eater from Monster Hunter is that the former has characters exist as more than "The General/Excitable A-Lister" and so on. These are actual characters with storylines surrounding them so I feel it would be best to pick a character instead of going for an avatar, especially with how ill-defined GE avatars are as opposed to being able to point to a particular armour or outfit like with MH.

The characters I have in mind are:

Alisa

Alisa is probably the most popular character in the series, she gets all the merchandise, crossovers (both PXZ games) and stuff. She uses a Long Blade and an Assault Gun. The big thing against her is that she's never had a decent outfit, this could be altered of course.

Lindow

Lindow is maybe the most popular male character, he acts as your mentor in the first game and has a reduced role in both later games. He uses a similar weapon set to Alisa but he also has an extra trick up his sleeve owed to events of the first game that gave him an aragami arm. He was also in PXZ 1 as a solo unit.

Soma

Soma holds claim to having a playable presence in every game, however he is also the most limited character. He's a first generation God Eater, this means he can't use a ranged weapon, as such he is stuck with a Buster Blade. He did star in PXZ1 as Alisa's partenr.

Ciel

Ciel is the most popular character joining in God Eater 2 which is still her sole appearance outside of a crossover appearance in PXZ2 paired up with Nana. Ciel uses a Short Blade and a Sniper rifle in battle and has a special ability that helps her detect the status of her foes.

Livie

Livie is integral to the second arc of God Eater 2 and she uses a Scythe and Shotgun in combat

Lulu

Lulu is a new character in God Eater 3 using the Biting Edge weapon and a Sniper Rifle. I don't believe she is the most popular character, that's probably Phym or Claire but I do believe that the Biting Edge makes her a unique option compared to Claire.

Phym

Phym is the central character of God Eater 3's plot and uses a Heavy Moon, Assault Gun loadout making her a unique fighter compared to all the others. She's also pretty popular.

I won't be able to contribute much since my only experience with God Eater is the GE 3 demo. It is a pretty good demo and God Eater seems like a lot of fun with the cool weapons and big monsters. It reminds me of Monster Hunter in a way. So I'll ask, what are some music you God Eater fans would want to see if got into a platform fighter?

Noms: B.J Blazkowicz xMax

It'd be remiss to not have No Way Back as a track as it's a relatively unique track playing during certain fights in the games and had a remix for PXZ. Voice of the Blizzard is a favourite of mine and I'm partial to various Ashborn themes from 3 like Nemesis and Through the Odds. Steel Fortress is a nice track and Wolf's Howl is good too. New World and Flame Dance stand out too.


Noms:
All on Kiryu Kazuma

 

[GolisoPower]

Question about God Eater: is it less time-consuming to defeat enemies here than it is in Monster Hunter? Or is it longer? I can definitely see how people like these kinds of games with what little I've played of Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, Monster Hunter World, and the Monster Hunter Rise, but I felt like I was spending most of my time running around the map and only chipping away at a monster's health when I actually manage to reach them. Considering how over-the-top I heard God Eater was, I can only assume there's less running around and more actual fighting for massive damage.

Noms:
Chell x15
2B x20

 

[Schnee117]

Damage definitely feels better and running around isn't too awful because the maps are generally very straight forward, 3 makes the certain points Aragami will run off too much easier to see by making them places that can also help you out if you stand over them

 

[fogbadge]

i was gonna ask what it was but instead im just gonna back out the room slowly

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Azura x5

 

[Schnee117]

I should probably go over the Aragami too as they'd inform the spirit selection

You have your basic fodder enemies

Ogretail

Dreadpike

Cocoon Maiden

Good candidates for lower level spirits

Then we get to some of the more regular Aragami you fight

Kongou

Chi-You

Ukonvasara

Barbarius

These work for level 2 Spirits

The following would make for strong Level 3 spirits

Hannibal

Vajra

Quadriga

The following are more unique story type bosses, some are variants of other Aragami, these would make for higher level 3 candidates or even level 4 spirits

Marduk

Dyaus Pita (an advanced Vajra that would also be my main pick for a boss fight)

Ra

Anubis (my other pick for a boss fight)

 

[Gengar84]

I should probably go over the Aragami too as they'd inform the spirit selection

You have your basic fodder enemies

Ogretail

Dreadpike

Cocoon Maiden

Good candidates for lower level spirits

Then we get to some of the more regular Aragami you fight

Kongou

Chi-You

Ukonvasara

Barbarius

These work for level 2 Spirits

The following would make for strong Level 3 spirits

Hannibal

Vajra

Quadriga

The following are more unique story type bosses, some are variants of other Aragami, these would make for higher level 3 candidates or even level 4 spirits

Marduk

Dyaus Pita (an advanced Vajra that would also be my main pick for a boss fight)

Ra

Anubis (my other pick for a boss fight)

Those are some pretty cool monster designs. They remind me a bit of Final Fantasy enemies, particularly FFX.

 

[amageish]

God Eater is an IP that has laways existed in the peripheral of other IPs I like, but I haven't ever looked into it that much... It seems like an impressively broad and deep franchise though!

It seems to be no stranger to having crossovers in other games. Any patterns/motifs worth keeping in mind there?

 

[fogbadge]

shall we have another crack at this?

 

[amageish]

shall we have another crack at this?

Whoops, sorry. I've been dealing with some minor health issues lately and, while I'm mostly fine, they've been messing up my sleep and thereby messing up my sense of time... Did not realize it had been over a week already...

Spoiler: The Noms List

50-75 noms
Azura - x90
Alphen and/or Shionne - x85
Jack Frost - x75
Taliyah - x75
Ahri - x70
Bubsy - x70
Chell - x67
Hearthstone Innkeeper - x65
Kiryu Kazuma - x65
Max (Shining Force) - x65
2B - x60
Opa-Opa - x55

26-50 noms
Stella (Spiritfarer) - x45
Jonesy - x37
BJ Blazkowicz - x35
Trauma Center Content - x32
Wilfre - x30
Wadanohara* - x30
Zero Escape Rep - x30
Jason Frudnick - x30
King Harkinian - x30
Sly Cooper - x28

11-25 noms
Chun-Li - x25
Meowth - x25
SMT Content - x25
Daitoryo - x25
Clockman (NASB) - x20
Master Hand - x20
Mega Man X - x20
Morrigan - x20
Darkest Dungeon Content - x16
Rango (NASB) - x15
Ezio - x15
Gunvolt - x15

5-10 noms
Pauline - x10
Lobotomy Corporation/Library of Ruina Content - x7
Jack (Final Fantasy Origin) - x5
Carl Johnson - x5
Frogger - x5
9-volt - x5
Nathan Drake - x5
Ahri - x5
Spyro the Dragon - x3
Tracer - x3

Spoiler: Usable Noms

Commander_Alph - x20
Dan Quixote Dan Quixote - x35
Dan Quixote - x35
DanganZilla5 - x10
Gengar84 - x15
Schnee117 - x45
GolisoPower - x10
amageish - x10

Next up is Shovel Knight, a character no stranger to platform fighters... Like, seriously: Shovel Knight Showdown exists as its own game, then Shovel Knight is also playable in both Rivals of Aether and Indie Pogo... plus he's an AT in Smash Bros Ultimate.

Spoiler: Shovel Knight Music Sampler

 

[fogbadge]

Shovel knight eh? I gotta say I really thought he’d get a mii costume and a music track. Even though I’ve never played the game I’ll admit there’s something appealing about him and I think he’d be a nice inclusion

 

[GolisoPower]

Good lordy, Shovel Knight is a hell of a pick for a multitude of reasons. Not only is it THE stand-out exception to the dreaded Kickstarter curse among others who've survived it like Miriam, but he also managed to garner enough popularity to be an Assist Trophy in Smash, too! If that's not telling of the raw star power he's garnered, then I dunno what is.

 

[Schnee117]

Yeah Shovel Knight is just perfect for Smash and that's something I rarely ever say.

Using the shovel to Pogo Bounce as a down air attack is vital
He could maybe have a bury mechanic even if he's more known for digging stuff out of the ground
All of his trinkets and items work well to give him better options

Literally any stage would be perfect for him and you can't really go wrong with the music either

Hell Shovel Knight has it's own platform fighter mode, seeing him get promoted from AT to the big leagues would be awesome.

Noms:
All on Kiryu Kazuma

 

[DanganZilla5]

I haven't played Shovel Knight unfortunately, it's one of the many Switch games laying in my library. But the fact that he's less than a decade old and yet got an assist trophy role in Smash Ultimate says a lot. In fact I believe that's the first major role that an indie game got in the Smash series (I think) which is....wow. I do like the idea of a character that uses a shovel as a weapon, as well as the various pickups he uses. I don't have much to say, he's not a character I particularly want (At least not yet) but I'd very open to seeing him in Smash one day as a playable character.

Now for my question if it hasn't been asked, what would be the ideal stage for Shovel Knight?

Noms: B.J Blazkowicz x all usable noms

 

[Perkilator]

Noms:
Azura x5