PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

[Eagleye893]

Yay, bats and psi magnet's wind!!

--If you can catch a snake off guard, the psi magnet wind will launch his grenades back at him and esplode him... I like psi magnet... it's good.
--bat his projectiles (excluding the nades) to hit them back at him, even his usmash if you get the chance and can time everything perfectly.

ness' ground game isn't terrible against snake, you've just gotta keep your distance and wait for him to leave himself wide open (rare, but his AAA combo has a small amount of lag at the end, while his smashes = uber ending lag), 'cause his tilts are quick killing moves to add onto the explosive mindgames. i would rely on aerial game while watching out for his utilt and usmash and well ranged aerials. pkfire on the ground if he leaves himself open; even if he can di out quickly, follow up with one of you're quickest attacks (nair, fair if he's trying to airdodge, uair/bair at higher percents, dash attack?). Again i haven't played anyone like ally, but i might get to at this next tourney im going to.

 

[smash64]

Yay, bats and psi magnet's wind!!

--If you can catch a snake off guard, the psi magnet wind will launch his grenades back at him and esplode him... I like psi magnet... it's good.
--bat his projectiles (excluding the nades) to hit them back at him, even his usmash if you get the chance and can time everything perfectly.

ness' ground game isn't terrible against snake, you've just gotta keep your distance and wait for him to leave himself wide open (rare, but his AAA combo has a small amount of lag at the end, while his smashes = uber ending lag), 'cause his tilts are quick killing moves to add onto the explosive mindgames. i would rely on aerial game while watching out for his utilt and usmash and well ranged aerials. pkfire on the ground if he leaves himself open; even if he can di out quickly, follow up with one of you're quickest attacks (nair, fair if he's trying to airdodge, uair/bair at higher percents, dash attack?). Again i haven't played anyone like ally, but i might get to at this next tourney im going to.

what tourney is that? becuase i know Ally gonna be at the Midwest championships Jun 20th and im gonna be there

 

[Master Knight DH]

you don't want to trade hits with him

How often is trading hits wise though? Short of having sufficient surplus, it's not so efficient; all it does is reduce the number of moves each fighter gets. I know this all too well as a "baby of the family" who has to contend with annoying sisters as well as a cruel and indifferent society.

Attrition combat is likely to be inevitable in one form or another, I suppose, but definitely mix it up. At least then you ruin the opponent's edge.

 

[Eagleye893]

what tourney is that? becuase i know Ally gonna be at the Midwest championships Jun 20th and im gonna be there

MK vs. Itachi: clash of brokenness VI. it's on june 27th. on the page for the tourney here, ally says hes coming.

When will we finish discussion for snake? I would give ness a slight disadvantage because of snake's insane tilts and tech chasing dthrow, but other aspects of his game aren't much of a pain. maybe a disadvantage for ness depending on how well the opponent knows how to play against us.

 

[AvariceX]

It's 60:40 Snake. I haven't heard anyone disagree with that in a long time and I'd be surprised if someone did (unless it was to say 65:35 Snake which is believable).

I was also unaware of that tourney. This means he won't be at the Pownz tourney on the same day then, which is unfortunate because he's chill to hang out with, but it also means I won't have to face him in the bracket :D

 

[smash64]

yeah ill say its a 60:40 match up if the snake really know what hes doing with his granades/c4/mines

 

[AvariceX]

^Ness has problems dealing with Snake's utilt and nair too. Those combined with grenades and grab shenanigans are the main contributors to it being a disadvantaged matchup.

 

[_clinton]

^Ness has problems dealing with Snake's utilt and nair too. Those combined with grenades and grab shenanigans are the main contributors to it being a disadvantaged matchup.

I don't see how he has issues with Utilt and Nair...but whatever...
I also don't see what the issue with grenades are sometimes as well...but whatever

 

[smash64]

seems like you need to play some more snake pro players

 

[AvariceX]

I don't see how he has issues with Utilt and Nair...but whatever...
I also don't see what the issue with grenades are sometimes as well...but whatever

Grenade is the best move in the game, regardless of the matchup.

Utilt and Nair are both problems for the same reason - they stuff Ness' aerials. If you try to approach Snake with a Fair you get utilted on-stage or Naired off-stage. If you space your Fair far enough that he can't utilt there's a good chance he's going to grenade shield. It's just hard to get by. Grabbing Snake seems like a good option to get around the utilt/grenade shield until you realize that Snake's grab has better range (and so does his ftilt).

Seriously, the more people play good Snakes the more they're going to realize it's all about baiting; you can't hope to win through rush-down or attrition.

 

[_clinton]

seems like you need to play some more snake pro players

I like how you assume I don't have any match up exp. with Snake players who are good...but whatever...

Still I like how you didn't read my post earlier saying that overall Snake has the plus by just a bit...but whatever

Grenade is the best move in the game, regardless of the matchup.

Well it is a very good move I'll agree with you on that...but the best I don't know ^_^

But the reality is...Ness has ways of at least dealing with them to a point because of Fire, Thunder, and even Magnet

Utilt and Nair are both problems for the same reason - they stuff Ness' aerials. If you try to approach Snake with a Fair you get utilted on-stage or Naired off-stage.

This is why you actually have to be careful with your recovery tools for one thing when it comes to Nair...but whatever...

If you space your Fair far enough that he can't utilt there's a good chance he's going to grenade shield.

Grenade shielding is fun...if they do it wrong I just eat their shield with PKT's tail and curve PKT into Ness if it is an acceptable option and watch as PKT2 rips off 1/2 their shields strength plus whatever else...btw...did I talk about how it is pretty easy to overall pressure Snake's Shield as Ness?

It's just hard to get by. Grabbing Snake seems like a good option to get around the utilt/grenade shield until you realize that Snake's grab has better range (and so does his ftilt).

I just get behind his back...it is at least overall more enjoyable that way...

Seriously, the more people play good Snakes the more they're going to realize it's all about baiting; you can't hope to win through rush-down or attrition.

Well yeah...Brawl is a defensive game overall

 

[smash64]

I like how you assume I don't have any match up exp. with Snake players who are good...but whatever...

Still I like how you didn't read my post earlier saying that overall Snake has the plus by just a bit...but whatever

i like how you say whatever alot hehe

 

[Bartolon]

The Fair spacing is a lil harder against snake becuz of the grenades and such.
Maybe more spacing dairs or such?

 

[Brinzy]

Do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbM2kzdKHwY

 

[Bartolon]

Probably bad snake... -_-

 

[Brinzy]

Do it anyway.

 

[_clinton]

Do it anyway.

"He 3 stocked a Snake...he don't deserve it"



I like the texture hack on that Ness ^_^

Plus the Ness was pretty good as well...everyone wins ^_^

The video is also proof that a large chuck of wood is better than a Rocket launcher ^_^

 

[smash64]

wow! that was one of the worst snake players i have ever seen!

 

[Brinzy]

I just like the music and the fact that it's Ness.

 

[thesage]

*notices it's ninjalink playing Ness

oh that explains everything.

 

[_clinton]

wow! that was one of the worst snake players i have ever seen!

Nah...its just that the Ness was just so much better...

 

[Master Knight DH]

You want a bad Snake, try the one I fought as Ness in a random 1-on-1 yesterday. He dealt only 12% to me in the whole of the two minutes. The player was more of a threat as Lucario at least.

 

[smash64]

Nah...its just that the Ness was just so much better...

haha true

 

[_clinton]

haha true

Remember kids...I'm always right

 

[smash64]

seems like it

 

[swordsaint]

Snake ***** Ness that is all. 60:40 imo to Snake. Snake out-ranges and can camp Ness and it makes approaching difficult. With the correct counterpicks snake can just exchange blows with c4s, grenades, up tilts-anything really, survive the hit and kill Ness anyway. I find the match up of snake vs Ness a lot easier than Metaknight vs Ness. (i use snake and meta btw so this is from experience)

Snake is just too damaging, too heavy, and kills ness far too easy for ness to have a good chance on snake

Snakes cypher could be abused by the spike, but a good snake mainer will air dodge or drop away and if they can't ledge grab or anything they'll c4 recover, so overall that weakness is no longer an issue

 

[smash64]

Snake ***** Ness that is all. 60:40 imo to Snake. Snake out-ranges and can camp Ness and it makes approaching difficult. With the correct counterpicks snake can just exchange blows with c4s, grenades, up tilts-anything really, survive the hit and kill Ness anyway. I find the match up of snake vs Ness a lot easier than Metaknight vs Ness. (i use snake and meta btw so this is from experience)

Snake is just too damaging, too heavy, and kills ness far too easy for ness to have a good chance on snake

Snakes cypher could be abused by the spike, but a good snake mainer will air dodge or drop away and if they can't ledge grab or anything they'll c4 recover, so overall that weakness is no longer an issue

i agree with everything you just said i play with the best Snake in Ohio

 

[swordsaint]

what i do think ness has in this match up providing he can be defensive enough is dash grabbing/ boost grabbing (if ness can do it, i dont main ness)

snakes grenade shielding is rendered a little useless if ness goes "lol grab lol forward throw lol spiked " which sometimes happens if the conditions are right.

ness has a good up tilt and up air though, meaning if he gets under the (heavy) snake there's some damage to be done- snake really hates being above people

 

[M]

Snake eats Ness' approach. Listen to swordsaint guys, I play him plenty.

 

[_clinton]

Snake ***** Ness that is all. 60:40 imo to Snake. Snake out-ranges and can camp Ness and it makes approaching difficult. With the correct counterpicks snake can just exchange blows with c4s, grenades, up tilts-anything really, survive the hit and kill Ness anyway. I find the match up of snake vs Ness a lot easier than Metaknight vs Ness. (i use snake and meta btw so this is from experience)

Snake is just too damaging, too heavy, and kills ness far too easy for ness to have a good chance on snake

Snakes cypher could be abused by the spike, but a good snake mainer will air dodge or drop away and if they can't ledge grab or anything they'll c4 recover, so overall that weakness is no longer an issue

Grenades can go anyway really still...

Overall this thread seems dead...

 

[Eagleye893]

I looked at the original post and I didn't see PT... are we discussing him/them later? I would double check another time, cause i swear there is at least one other character missing that i forgot.

 

[AvariceX]

i agree with everything you just said i play with the best Snake in Ohio

And I frequently play with the best Snake anywhere. I've also agreed with pretty much everything you've said, and I honestly doubt that between the two of us anyone has more credible experience in the Snake-Ness matchup.

It's 60:40 Snake, this was established a long time ago, and anyone who's still pointing this or anything else about the match out are posting old news.

Let's talk about someone else. I'd really like to see ZSS rediscussed, I'm having serious problems with good ones.

Also

Snakes cypher could be abused by the spike, but a good snake mainer will air dodge or drop away and if they can't ledge grab or anything they'll c4 recover, so overall that weakness is no longer an issue

I've spiked Ally out if his cypher :D .........once.

 

[_clinton]

PKNintendo hasn't been here sense the 16th of May or so...

 

[Man of Popsicle]

fairfairfairbtrowwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Or cp falcon.

It's not to hard to grab release snake from his cypher.

 

[SuSa]

"Last edited by PKNintendo; 04-17-2009 at 08:46 PM. "

IMO you guys need a new thread.... that's kept up to date....

Also I'm almost certain Nikita can cancel PKT2, so if we know you are forced to use your PKT we can try to cancel it with Nikita. It seems to hit the Nikita in weird...random directions so it may help you, but that sure as hell beats risking our ***** doing anything against you while you recover.

However that is relatively useless/stupid so.... what's been said.. I agree with it and the ratio 60:40 Snake.

(Grab release ftilt/utilt is fun)

 

[Cacti]

OK, so the matchup is 60:40.

Who should we discuss next? I think we should do PT just to finish it up... Then we can get back to rediscussing the outdated ones.

 

[xoxokev]

where is pknintendo?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

In not here I guess.

 

[NintenJoe]

I'd be willing to take over the match-up thread if needed...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194177

 

[TheVince]

I looked at the original post and I didn't see PT... are we discussing him/them later? I would double check another time, cause i swear there is at least one other character missing that i forgot.

I don't see Ganon on the first page anywhere.