• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

thesage

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
Snake is the most inappropriately made smash character every. None of his moves make sense at all. I'm going to stick my leg up and it will damage you. That's like half his moves.
 
thesage

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
BestNessn00b said:
And a psycic kid hitting you with sparks makes any more sense?
Click to expand...
It makes sense that those sparks do damage.

I mean comparing Ness's and Snake's hitboxes, it seems Snake is the psychic. Plus he doesn't play anything like he does in his games...
 
PK-ow!

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
AdmantNESS said:
By the way, any ideas on how my list should be improved? Like the order of characters, how its formatted, or something more that should be added to it? Some input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Include headers in slightly larger font for each character by name. Put shortened forms TL, GnW/GaW/G&W/GW, ZSS, Zamus in the appropriate places (but especially TL and Zamus since it sucks that another character's name is a substring).

Order the characters either by tier placement (by the most recent production of the SBR), sorting within tier according to Ness' matchup against each; or sorted purely by Ness' matchup ratio.

Someone should invite the Snakes. I think I would suck at it (at least right now), so it's not me.

btw AvariceX, what did Ally do to try to kill you? o_O
 
xoxokev

xoxokev

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,431
Location
California, baby
AdmantNESS said:
Link to the start of Snake re-discussion has been added:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6393604&postcount=1466

By the way, any ideas on how my list should be improved? Like the order of characters, how its formatted, or something more that should be added to it? Some input would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
i would really appreciate it if someone would write summaries for each character... not me tho lol

(just saying)

including "what to do:" and "what not to do:" as well as "stage bans:" and "stage counterpicks:" :lick:

and also a link to this (or quote) on the first post
 
Meian

Meian

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
63
thesage said:
It makes sense that those sparks do damage.

I mean comparing Ness's and Snake's hitboxes, it seems Snake is the psychic. Plus he doesn't play anything like he does in his games...
Click to expand...
In Snake's defense, Ness doesn't do nearly any of the moves he does outside of PK Flash from his games.

xoxokev said:
i would really appreciate it if someone would write summaries for each character... not me tho lol

(just saying)

including "what to do:" and "what not to do:" as well as "stage bans:" and "stage counterpicks:" :lick:

and also a link to this (or quote) on the first post
Click to expand...
Yea, I also agree with this was trying to say that in my previous post =x
 
Xebenkeck

Xebenkeck

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
1,636
Location
My Head
thesage said:
It makes sense that those sparks do damage.

I mean comparing Ness's and Snake's hitboxes, it seems Snake is the psychic. Plus he doesn't play anything like he does in his games...
Click to expand...
And a knee to the gut then a haymaker wouldn't hurt, that should do damage. Snakes hitboxes are stupid i agree, but that is sakurai's fault.

Ness doesn't play like in his game either, he uses paula's moves for pity sakes, the only thing ness uses that are his are the bat, yo-yo, and PK flash. Every thing else is made up.
 
AdmantNESS

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
xoxokev said:
i would really appreciate it if someone would write summaries for each character... not me tho lol

(just saying)

including "what to do:" and "what not to do:" as well as "stage bans:" and "stage counterpicks:" :lick:

and also a link to this (or quote) on the first post
Click to expand...
In the second post of this topic, Pk Nintendo does link to the list, but I suppose its not really obvious enough for people to notice.

As for match-up summaries, I'm not sure if I'm confident enough to do those. A few of those discussions were either too short or there was little to no input from the other mains though some of those makes some good points. A template would be good though. I could go through each of the discussions and take the important points, but it would obviously take a good while.

Also when the characters are done we could do discussions for stage counterpicks for clarification.
 
mydadsacop123

mydadsacop123

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
173
Location
Dallas, Tx
Grab release snake on the edge when he falls dtilt and stop his 2nd jump. Then spike his upb
I do this to good snake players all the time and it works pretty well
 
_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
BestNessn00b said:
And a knee to the gut then a haymaker wouldn't hurt, that should do damage. Snakes hitboxes are stupid i agree, but that is sakurai's fault.

Ness doesn't play like in his game either, he uses paula's moves for pity sakes, the only thing ness uses that are his are the bat, yo-yo, and PK flash. Every thing else is made up.
Click to expand...
Ness' power is psychokinesis and he is very high as far as power goes...the idea of PK Fire and so on isn't that off track...
 
neomadgic

neomadgic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
264
Location
Minneapolis, MN
NNID
neomagic249
Next to Marth, I think Snake is Ness hardest matchup. You have to approach Snakes since he can grenade camp you and it is extremely hard to approach because his tilts reach really far. Also, Snake could kill at us at around 120ish% while it'll take us a good 140-150% to get him unless we can get a spike off. Which, in my mind, is easier said than done. PKT doesn't really work that well against snake to juggle him, because he can punish you with DownB when he's above you.

The only advantage Ness has on Snake is aerials. If you can get snake in the air, you can wreak havoc. Snake doesn't have that many options when you are juggling him with attacks. Heck, he only have 2 options: Airdodge, or bair. You could easily force him to do one of these options by simply jumping at him (short hop), then work from there.

I think the matchup is 65-35 snake.
 
Cacti

Cacti

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
216
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I'd also say somewhere around 60-40 Snake. This is a pretty hard matchup for Ness. Snake dominates the ground, so you'll have to get him off the stage or in the air to edgeguard/juggle. I'd approach with a wall of fairs and bairs.

Also, Nair goes through Snake's usmash :)
 
_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
PKNintendo said:
After Snake, want to do D3?
Click to expand...
We have D3...the D3 boards have D3...lets work on the ones we don't have...how about Pokemon Trainer? I disagree with their board...

NeoMagic said:
Next to Marth, I think Snake is Ness hardest matchup. You have to approach Snakes since he can grenade camp you and it is extremely hard to approach because his tilts reach really far. Also, Snake could kill at us at around 120ish% while it'll take us a good 140-150% to get him unless we can get a spike off. Which, in my mind, is easier said than done. PKT doesn't really work that well against snake to juggle him, because he can punish you with DownB when he's above you.
Click to expand...
I think G&W is harder than Snake...
Proper use of PKT,PKF, and Magnet all have an effect on Snake's nade play to a point...
Also Bthrows kill range on Snake is about 89-155% w/o factoring in DI on FD...

Anyway...Do note that a grab release does end in an Utilt at high %...so this is another match where the kill grab is both ways...

NeoMagic said:
The only advantage Ness has on Snake is aerials. If you can get snake in the air, you can wreak havoc. Snake doesn't have that many options when you are juggling him with attacks. Heck, he only have 2 options: Airdodge, or bair. You could easily force him to do one of these options by simply jumping at him (short hop), then work from there.
Click to expand...
While Ness may beat Snake in the air due to his mobility and maybe air attack speed as well (let me check on this) do remember that Snake's Bair and Uair have more kill power than Ness' (For example Ness' Bair kills Mario at 110% on FD...well Snake's does it at 97%...and for the Uair...Ness is 122...Snake is 109), his Fair...it doesn't matter if you get hit by the spike or the "sour spot" you don't want to get hit by it...oh and the last hit on his Nair and Dair chain is like an 80% kill move or so...

NeoMagic said:
I think the matchup is 65-35 snake.
Click to expand...
If I was to give any numbers...
I'm thinking 6-4...however I don't sway toward 65-35 (I may be the other way) but yeah...Snake has the plus if anything
 
_clinton

_clinton

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
3,189
Oh and about DACUS...the fact that Snake's is so great makes me think he might beat Ness at mobility as well...Anyway...anyone feel like listing which moves Snake has that won't kill?

Also PKNintendo...please put a number next to Lucario...
 
Bartolon

Bartolon

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
1,143
Location
The Netherlands, Oss
The grenade camping can be a pain. Approaching through air can be good but I think th grenades interfere with arials like (fair,nair) Maybe PK fire through air or something? I don't know a good strategy against snake, but ness dominates his air game by far imo. Grabbing can be hard, because of the grenades and tilts.

60-40 or 65-35 for snake.
 
xoxokev

xoxokev

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,431
Location
California, baby
_clinton said:
Oh and about DACUS...the fact that Snake's is so great makes me think he might beat Ness at mobility as well...Anyway...anyone feel like listing which moves Snake has that won't kill?

Also PKNintendo...please put a number next to Lucario...
Click to expand...
UpB... and maybe dtilt?
 
Morningstar

Morningstar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
205
Location
The Hood, TX
Tilts > bat.

Watch out for dthrow tech chase. Approach with Fair. Fair-jab is good at low percent. Block Snake's jab after the first hit because the rest won't always connect. A good combo my friend uses against me is PK Fire-down throw and he can sometimes follow with a Fair. Snake is also really easy to spike out of his recovery. If you can't spike him, try the bair. Just keep your kill moves fresh. (bair, uair, bthrow, fsmash) Roll over mines or use PK Fire to diffuse them. Grenades and Nikita missiles can also stop your PK Thunder whilst recovering.
 
Uffe

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Morningstar said:
Snake dropping a box on Ness' recovery for the lulz.
Click to expand...
That's pretty situational. Someone using Snake tried this on me before but failed doing so. :laugh: Anyway, I don't really know how to deal with Snake. You've got offensive ones and then campy ones. I'd like to say this is 60:40, Snake. I mean I don't truly find Snake all that hard, just time consuming. I suppose it's because I've been coming across some Snake mains lately, but not losing too horribly.

@ PKNintendo: I went with 60:40, Lucario's favor vs Ness. But after playing Dawei's Lucario, my opinion has changed about that ratio. Also, I see a lot of ratios that I think should be changed.
 
Neon Ness

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Uffe said:
I went with 60:40, Lucario's favor vs Ness. But after playing Dawei's Lucario, my opinion has changed about that ratio.
Click to expand...
:laugh: See, this is exactly why people shouldn't use matchup ratios.

Regardless of whether or not you rely on some mysterious number that indicates you have the advantage, if the person is better than you, you will lose.

Conversely, if said mysterious number calls the matchup impossible, and you are better than your opponent, you will win. A lot of times people post things like "Well, I thought it was 75:25, but after playing X, I'm not sure..." It's like they're proving that matchup ratios are meaningless but not realizing it. One ratio can't account for every single player of that character in the world... Some you can handle with ease, while others will simply be better players. 'Tis a fact of life Smash.
 
smash64

smash64

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
2,363
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
since i 2nd play snake and my friend that i always play plays snake too i pretty much know the match up so im guessing its all about how much eperience you have agaisnt the character your playing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom