Pit General Match-Up Thread

[BlinkIV]

Yep, the weak hit of U-Air will always hit them directly above you, which is amazing to abuse against floaty's/Ness (If he D-airs you, or tries to D-air offstage, weak U-air always wins), while strong U-Air won't beat it, it's weird, I know. I can get a video of that here in a few hours, probably showing the differences between the U-airs, and the weak u-air to Up-B kill.

Stages can matter against Peach, I'd play passive-agressive on Metal Cavern or WarioWare, F-Smash/Tilt kills relatively early, you can kill her off the top with ease as well, and she doesn't have much space to run, and your U-Smash goes through plats (Welcome to PitWare Inc?). I can't offer too much insight on Tlink, since I haven't played any notable ones or good ones at that. ROB though! I play with Oracle almost every week, stage-wise, I don't think there's any stage that really makes it more in Pit's favor, almost every stage benefit both ROB and Pit in the same ways. I say just go with whatever you feel with work.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm always a fan of videos

 

[BlinkIV]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnj89442iRM

It's just explaining how it works, and which ways you can convert a throw into U-Air > Up-B, and if you notice. DI'ing Pit's throws works similar to Marth's, just DI away, rather Down + Away and there isn't much Pit can do after that, although there ARE some things he can do, like getting the D-Air spike, run and U-Smash (Possibly DACUS?), or F-Air. Most of it is explained in the description, but otherwise.

I'll try and make another video tonight, and have it show the U-air working against Ness/Falco's D-air to see how that works out.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'd love anymore videos. When do I wanna do a reverse Up-b like your annotation mentioned?

When should I use Up-b OOS versus wonderful Up-smash OOS?

What am I suppose to be doing concerning Jab/tilt-mixups? I just press A and hope my mixed up timings and directions gets me some kinda Jab to tilt combo that doesn't get me shield grabbed

Are Pit's arrows the same as brawl? I've been watching a lot of awesome Brawl Pit Combo videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCl-EuSc2GE

I've also been looking at this http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4823.html
I can't trust it though: I don't know how much has changed since 2.5 besides the specific mentions in this (as well as the character Spotlight http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-5824.html)

Spoiler

Pit Change List
-Pit no longer has two Glides in the air, however, starting from the ground does not use it up, and it is regained when grabbing an edge
-Pit's ending Glide animation smoothed out
-Pit's Glide cancels into fall rather than SpecialFall
-Pit's Forward Tilt can be angled up or down
-Pit's Down Tilt meteor sweetspot moved from blade to body and made stronger in knockback
-Pit's Forward Smash is two parts and the first hit links into the second hit better
-Pit's Up Smash hitboxes cleaned up and link better
-Pit's Back Air strong hit sends at a lower angle, lasts slightly longer, and has a bit less base knockback
-Pit's Down Air sweetspot is now a spike and easier to hit
-Pit's Arrows take longer to weaken initially, but then reach their weakest level at the same time they did before
-Pit's Arrows can now be SDIed normally, and use the new Light element effect
-Pit's Up B is now reversible
-Pit's Up B uses the new Light element effect
-Pit's grounded Up B links better into the sweetspot and damage on sourspot slightly increased
-Pit's grounded Up B sweetspot placement adjusted
-Pit's aerial Up B goes a bit higher, animation adjusted, and the sweetspot is easier to hit

I'm also still working on finding/making a decent Pit texture.

 

[Juushichi]

i played whoever were at apex.

who top players do you guys play, period? At least Stephen can play with Sethlon, but QraQ lives in the midwest where nobody good lives, for example. At least I get to go out of state, and I live in a top level state.

Damn.

Not only is my side of the region completely thrown out of the window, but I guess I'm also not even a blip on the radar in terms of my character. I guess I'll have to keep at it and do some work at NR. Oracle is right, though, and there was a lot of unrefined stuff at APEX because 2.5 hadn't been out for very long. My salt aside...

It seems like just like in Brawl, Pit is not a very popular character. He probably is in Japan, though.

 

[Vixen]

No biggie. I didn't mean to start attacking people's experience/region/etc but QraQ really bothered me.

Pit is pretty darn unpopular, and I'd even say that Armada playing Pit actually makes it worse for us. When players who are pretty good, but not god-tier use Pit, there's huge, glaring flaws in the character, but then Armada just lolstomps everyone, and people are like PIT IS STUPID NERF PLS.

It's not the character, it's the player.

Also, didn't we play at Apex? I felt like I had a bit of an unfair advantage over people because I got to play the BR build long before 2.5 actually came out, plus all that melee experience, and all the experience of being an unofficial tester since pre-beta 1.

 

[BlinkIV]

I'd love anymore videos. When do I wanna do a reverse Up-b like your annotation mentioned?

When should I use Up-b OOS versus wonderful Up-smash OOS?

You can do reverse Up-B at almost anytime you have a chance to get an Up-B kill. Reversing it doesn't make TOO much of a difference, but sometimes it can be used for style points on killing someone. I find it more useful in doubles, if you can kill an opponent with reversed Up-B, you can fall down and easily grab the ledge (Assuming a ledge is open).

Up-B OoS = Spacies/Ness. Up-B OoS is very effective against spacies, especially if they like to d-air you for shield pressure, like Drill Shines for example. Ness' D-air also puts you at a perfect trajectory for an Up-B OoS, but if he DJC's the D-Air, U-Air OoS is much better in that case.

U-Smash OoS = C.Falcon/Lucas. U-Smash OoS is more effective imo against Falcon and Lucas, not only because you have more chances to do it when they hit you, but also because you'll always get a free follow up from it.

 

[CORY]

Pit is pretty darn unpopular

unless you're in n texas...

 

[Juushichi]

We did play at APEX Mizuki, we went roughly even at the time, too.

 

[Vixen]

Ah ok, my memory's a little fuzzy on who all I played.

 

[Juushichi]

Mizuki said: ↑
****** pit has like a 50/50 vs gnw. stop playing frauds



Honestly, I think that GnW vs Pit is somewhere in the range of 40-60, 45-55. There's some degree in difficulty in Pit having to deal with GnW's options, sure... but I think that his speed in the keep away and CQC combat game is a bit better in dealing with GnW than he... it(?) wants to deal with. I found myself having to react more than I wanted to pursue, but that might just be the character. I think Pit definitely want to go in on GnW because camping him doesn't really seem to net that much reward on him. It also seems pretty hard to recover against Pit because of his awesome ability in that department.

Maybe aggressive edgeguards are the way to go vs Watch and I still haven't ran into a Pit (not that I have played more than like... 3, lol) that will attempt to Mirror Shield my Up-B yet. I got by relatively decently against you, Mizuki but I remember still losing more often than I won and... well, HankyPanky is a monster that I am only now starting to get the idea of how to deal with.

So, I may be a bit biased.

In short, I think GnW vs Pit is Pit's favor... moderately at the most.

this was a quote from post APEX from earlier in the thread. APEX happened a fair amount of time ago though. 4 months isn't seemingly a lot, but it's a lot in terms of metagame development. Unfortunately, I haven't played a Pit of good calibur since then though so I don't really have a differing opinion from my own hazy memories of APEX.

 

[BlinkIV]

I can relate to this, from me posting here earlier, stating how I normally play with Oracle/Dakpo's GnW, I don't want to repeat the things I've said about it, but feel free to search the thread and find it.

 

[Armada]

Pit is pretty darn unpopular, and I'd even say that Armada playing Pit actually makes it worse for us. When players who are pretty good, but not god-tier use Pit, there's huge, glaring flaws in the character, but then Armada just lolstomps everyone, and people are like PIT IS STUPID NERF PLS.

It's not the character, it's the player.

Sorry dude =/

I hope they don't nerf Pit so we can still play this awesome char =D

 

[Vixen]

Don't worry about it, hon. We'll all figure out new technology.

 

[BlinkIV]

I personally think Pit shouldn't be "nerfed". I consider him to be one of the balanced characters in this game as of now. The only "flaw" I see that can be adjusted is his U-Smash, aside from that. I don't see any reason at all for Pit to be changed.

 

[SpiderMad]

D

Qraq when I get a chance I'm gonna post a big write up. I like what I see but there's a boatload of room for improvement. Mostly in the smaller aspects. Spacing, mostly.

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk 2

Where's the spike on Pit's dair, what's the correct spacing for all of Pit's attacks?

It says here at the bottom, however, his bow blades have an additional quality - similar to Roy from Melee his strikes possess more power at the base of the blade than the tip. This gives Pit players an interesting choice - to press in close for that extra punch, or play it safe and space at maximum range.
http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=pit
So which are we to space with?

Is the Spike the last of the three hitboxe's ont he dair? I can only get the spike on people in front of me
http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4823.html

 

[Vixen]

The spike is about when the blade starts to swing in front of him.

With spacing, it's safer to hit deep with the blade, then run away. They aren't long enough to hit a shield at maximum distance. Most characters can either standing shield grab, or shield DI in and shield grab/aerial punish his longest move (tipped fair/fsmash) easily.

as for qraq, it was mostly that he was spacing his moves where his opponent was, and not where he is going to be. it also seemed like he wasnt 100% aware of the range of pits moves. i saw loooots of whiffed aerials, but the whiffs also lacked purpose. if you study my match vs DJN from Zenith, or Calabrel from locals, I throw out a lot of safe moves because it makes the opponent think twice about when they approach. its a tactic marth and falco do in melee, and a style i find works with pit in PM. with qraq it just looks like hes throwing **** out most of the time.

also i'm going to change my opinion on a few things.

Pit vs Link is probably closer to 50/50, or 55-45 Link's favor. Tink is still a blowout though. A lot of Pit's match up vs the Links is stage reliant. Pit fairs better on platformed, and smaller stages. YS and Wario Ware are his best options imho. Also, Arrow-interrupting boomerang and bomb pulls is very risky. Remember that Pit's arrow is a big commitment. You have crappy aerial mobility when pulling out the bow, the arrows move in a predictable arc, and you're open when you pull the bow out, and when you put it away. the same way you would punish falcos gun for example applies here, only its wayyyyy easier because you can't fast fall, and you don't cancel on landing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_vqo7TQlQ vs DNJ. Campy fox is hard. ;_;

 

[SpiderMad]

So hit as close as possible, then run away to bait moves instead of grabbing?

Does his arrow get any kind of shortened end lag when he touches the ground right after release? It kind of feels weird if you time it at the end of a SH.

Why don't you use Glide>Jump Reverse Bair while recovering? and I thought u'd use more AC Bair being a Falco player for so long

 

[Vixen]

Fsmash would still hit.

There is no reduced end lag on land.

Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SpiderMad]

Does Pit lose to Sheik?

 

[BlinkIV]

I wouldn't say so, I personally like playing that MU.

 

[SpiderMad]

Any guesstimates of when I should go Pit over Diddy? Diddy so far only seems to suck when facing Sonic, ROB, Fox, Falco, Peach, and sometimes CF/TL. Then there's match-ups Diddy might be good at but Pits even better at? Like, do you think Pit could be better against Bowser even though Diddy has a better grab game? Or Zelda?

Mizuki said Pit beats Sonic, but I don't know if he's facing super abusive Sonics, and apparently Pit gets beat by Fox. So I'm having trouble ever needing to go Pit.

What are you suppose to do in the vs Sheik MU? You DON'T want to go FoD in the MU right?

 

[BlinkIV]

Pit does beat Sonic, but I'd say like 55-45.

For Shiek, really. I just like fighting her, proper spacing/baiting is all you need to do against her. Bait out CC options, space aerials so it wouldn't work.

 

[SpiderMad]

What about the other MUs I listed?

 

[BlinkIV]

I'd recommend Pit against CF and ROB. ROB is much more in Pit's favor, whereas CF is slightly in CF's favor, but Pit can still win. It's not even that bad of a MU, CF has guaranteed U-Throw > Knee at like 70% which would instantly kill Pit due to weight. But aside from that, Pit does pretty solid.

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah ROB seems to handle Diddy's camping like it doesn't even exist.
CF might have even more combos on Diddy than Pit but I'm not familiar on exactly what kind of semi-fast faller kind of thing Diddy is compared to Pit: but it's probably closet to like CF comboing another CF for Diddy while CF comboing sheik for Pit? Which even then I don't know which is worse but I heard Samus gets combo'd the worst

I'm still clueless on what stages to take people, I've been trying Dracula's and Wario Ware more since you mentioned those and less of FoD since I've been having bad luck there but I'm not seeing the exact aspects of why those stages are good: Dracula's best for his arrow game while Wario has low platforms for Up-smash reaching through or what? Does both having a wall help Pit recover or something? If anything people like Mario are probably getting a better benefit

 

[BlinkIV]

If counterpicks aren't your cup of tea, just stick with neutral stages. I personally like Smashville, and prefer to go there if there isn't an available counterpick, or depending on the MU. Dracula's is mainly good for people you can kill early, since U-Smash/Up-B kills really early there. Imo, you've just gotta be really good at landing confirms into Up-B for Dracula's Castle to be effective in your favor.

Warioware for early kills as well, if you're proficient at "carrying" players off-stage, or taking them up high with Up-b kills, then yeah it's good. Also juggling with aerials kills relatively early as well. Universally, from what I've noticed, if you want any counterpick to be in Pit's favor, you've really gotta know and understand how Pit works, and how he can make any stage work in his favor.

 

[Vixen]

Saixven you should play good sheiks.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BlinkIV]

If I have the opportunity, I'd love to. Like I said, I just like fighting against Shiek, regardless of how gay her style is.

 

[Deleted member]

i think pit does fine vs sheik, she really has a hard time pining her down but she's still just a really good character so it kind of evens out.

 

[BlinkIV]

I don't play top Shieks enough, to be able to pinpoint if it's in Pit's favor or not. I just like fighting Shiek.

 

[Vixen]

Pit does fine, yes. I just like to compare it to Marth vs sheik. Sheik gets everything easier than pit, but pit has things he can do.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BlinkIV]

I don't know, I feel both characters can get things on each other just as easy.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm pretty sure I'd rather go Diddy vs Sheik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=N4k3-W90mks#t=36s C-stick does more minute arrow directional change? You guys using/know of this?

I think Pit's Mirror doubles the damage of attacks, so if you loop an arrow and then hit your own Mirror it'd do double damage: bad thing is arrows do almost nothing after a length of PS2. I actually don't know if it'd reflect off your own mirror since arrows go through yourself, the guy in the video though made it work with side-b.

 

[BlinkIV]

Yeah, I knew about that. But it's was a Brawl Pit, so I'm not sure how it'd benefit Pit in Project: M. I think the arrows were already adjusted to fit that, but I'll experiment.

About the mirror thing, it works in Brawl because Pit has two seperate reflectors, while in P:M he only has one, so that doesn't seem likely to happen in P:M.

 

[SpiderMad]

Does Pit do good in doubles? Any doubles tips? I've been trying the C-stick minor arrow direction change, it's actually a little useful but I don't think it works to add any extra direction change while already directioning it with the control stick (which would make it super essential).

I might go to a tournament Sat. Does Pit do good vs Bowser/Wolf? Should I go Pit over Diddy vs Fox/Falco?
I also need a recap of stages to ban and go to vs as many characters you guys know/have preferences for (Especially Spacies/Wolf/Bowser/Sheik/CF): we're allowed 3 bans.

Spoiler

Starters

Battlefield
Dream Land 64
Final Destination
Fountain of Dreams
Pokemon Stadium 2
Smashville
Yoshi's Story

Counterpicks

Castle Siege
Dracula's Castle
Green Hill Zone
Metal Cavern [Singles only]
Norfair
Pokemon Stadium 1
Rumble Falls
Skyloft [Singles only]
Skyworld
Wario Ware
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Bowser I'm def. banning Yoshis story.. and that's all I got O_O (Besides for Diddy I'd also ban huge stages vs Spacies, which I'd probably do with Pit as well but idk): and like you mentioned SaiXeven I might go Warioware as much as I can as well as FoD vs CF

 

[Vixen]

Bowser is free in any stage for pit. Easy win.

Pit is amazing in doubles. Your best partner is fox, falcon, or Ganon

Wolf beats pit at least 55.

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[BlinkIV]

G&W, Sonic, Lucas, and Zelda work amazingly well with Pit in doubles as well.

Also, Spider. Go Diddy vs Spacies, WarioWare and FoD against CF for sure, but Bowser. Of course, ban Yoshi's Story, but if he stays Bowser, you'll have to throw away WarioWare as well. His Side-B kills stupid early there (The back-throw of it), along with most other moves he has, kills earlier than Pit does in that stage. You'll want to go to more well-rounded stages against Bowser, or stages you're confident in "carrying" him off.

Good luck at the tournament though, I look forward to watching. I'm also headed to Louisiana this weekend for a tournament, so wish me luck there as well.

 

[SpiderMad]

Why does Wolf beat pit? I'm suppose to be killing Bowser off the side?

I noticed ending glide early with B I think grabs the ledge sooner/from farther away, so it's like Ike's then.

Any specific instances I should be charging arrows?

 

[BlinkIV]

You can kill Bowser off of both sides, and I'm not saying about the Wolf MU, it's too early to fully say who beats who.

Ending glide early does grab the ledge sooner, compared to just flying into it normally.

Charge arrows when your opponent is at high %, it's always a guaranteed Up-B kill after it.