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Pit General Match-Up Thread

BlinkIV

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Hey guys, this is going to be a place where we can discuss Pit's MU's against other characters, and how he does now in 2.5 compared to 2.1 Pit, to see if any MU's changed, if the changes Pit obtained changed how some MU's are played, I'll start by listing a few MU's that we can discuss and hopefully solidy for referencing.

Pit Vs Wario -

Pit Vs Mario -

Pit Vs Luigi -

Pit Vs Bowser -

Pit Vs Peach -

Pit Vs Donkey Kong -

Pit Vs Diddy Kong -

Pit Vs Captain Falcon -

Pit Vs Ganondorf -

Pit Vs Wolf -

Pit Vs Fox -

Pit Vs Falco -

Pit Vs Zero Suit Samus -

Pit Vs Zelda -

Pit Vs Shiek -

Pit Vs Link -

Pit Vs Toon Link -

Pit Vs Lucario -

Pit Vs Pikachu -

Pit Vs Jigglypuff -

Pit Vs Squirtle -

Pit Vs Ivysaur -

Pit Vs Charizard -

Pit Vs Pit -

Pit Vs Marth -

Pit Vs Ike -

Pit Vs Lucas -

Pit Vs Ness -

Pit Vs DeDeDe -

Pit Vs R.O.B -

Pit Vs G&W -

Pit Vs Snake -

Pit Vs Sonic -

Feel free to add your opinions on Pit's MU's, and bring any topic up for discussion and I'll update them to the OP.
 

Archangel

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Ok so I've decided to work on this in groups since I'm super busy but this subject is interesting. I'll most likely edit this post on and off all night lol. I'll leave blank things I'm unsure of and/or don't have enough experience to make even a guess yet.

MUs

Pit Vs Wario - 60-40

Pit Vs Mario - 50-50

Pit Vs Luigi - 50-50

Pit Vs Bowser - 55-45 (60-40 on massive stages). Bowser still has Mike Tyson power so it's very doable for the Bowser players.

Pit Vs Peach - 55-45 maybe eve 60-40. Although peach is buffed. Pit is just too much of the wrong kind of character for her. He's got more mobility than her in the air and on the ground. He wins the projectile game, Zoning game...pretty much everything with the exception of APM and frame game but if you play smart Peach shouldn't be able to pressure you easily and even if she does The up-B OoS works miracles vs shield pressure. This match was more even and closer to Peaches advantage in 2.1 only because pit could kill worth a damn. With his buffs I think he's just too solid.

Pit Vs Donkey Kong - 55-45

Pit Vs Diddy Kong - N/A (need more data)

Pit Vs Captain Falcon - 55-45 (Feels like Sheik vs Falcon)

Pit Vs Ganondorf - 55-45 (60-40 on big stages)

Pit Vs Wolf -60-40

Pit Vs Fox - 50-50

Pit Vs Falco - 50-50

Pit Vs Zero Suit Samus - N/A (need more data but I'm already leaning in favor of bit. I'm just not sure how far)

Pit Vs Zelda - 55-45

Pit Vs Shiek - 55-45 (still feels like a sheik ditto except you can fly, and have better recover. Pit's punish on sheik's recovery is usually fatal.)

Pit Vs Link - 55-45 Assuming the Link plays it right the match turns into a battle of spam it really campy but Pit has a slight edge in most things. Links recovery do to AGT's is better than it appears, however, a single well placed arrow puts and end to that. Link as powerful attacks and slight range advantage in close quarters but if fought mostly from mid-long range(except when combo'ing) I think Pit comes out on top.

Pit Vs Toon Link - 60-40. Same reason as link I just feel it's harder to exploit Link's weaknesses and you have range and priority over him most of the time and can easily cover just about all of his options at any point. I think it's doable for Toon Link but it's going to take alot of patients and some serious serious thinking on Tink's end.

Pit Vs Lucario - 60-40(before you call me crazy) The one problem Lucario has pit is a master of exploiting, especially with Lucario's changes(down-b comes to mind). Lucario is forced to eventually commit in order to get in range and if he commits to a bad move he gets punished like a mofo and Pit can just play the keep away game all day until you feel like killing him or he sets himself up.

Pit Vs Pikachu - 55-45. Pikachu can do work and he's hard to edgeguard if the Pika is good but you can kill him on stage easily especially with increased power. Pikachu isn't exactly heavy.

Pit Vs Jigglypuff - 60-40 or 55-45 if it's Hbox. Puff can't kill pit too easily and he can camp it up like young link but with greater killing power vs Puff. Just gliding around and playing safe is likely to hand you the victory. Puff can contend with you in the air in terms of speed but your attacks beat hers out if you space right. With glide(s) you are better in the air. and of course when grounded you are faster. Pit's recovery is difficult for Puff to edgeguard without really strong reads.

Pit Vs Squirtle - N/A (need more data)

Pit Vs Ivysaur - N/A (need more data)

Pit Vs Charizard - 50-50 on smaller stages. the bigger stages are 60-40. Averages out to 55-45 I guess.

Pit Vs Pit - in Pit's favor 100%

Pit Vs Marth - 55-45

Pit Vs Ike - 60-40 Pit is a secret counterpick.

Pit Vs Lucas - 55-45

Pit Vs Ness - N/A (need more data) haven't played vs 2.5 Ness yet.

Pit Vs DeDeDe - 50-50 (An extremely gay match-up)

Pit Vs R.O.B - 55-45

Pit Vs G&W - 65-35

Pit Vs Snake - 55-45 or 60-40. I feel it's in between but I'm not sure which to lean to.

Pit Vs Sonic - N/A (need more data) alot more data. 2.1 Sonic beat the hell out of pit but he's got alot of negative changes and pit has alot of positve changes so...don't know yet.
 

McNinja

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So basically Pit is the best character in the game with no negative matchups.

:phone:
 

BlinkIV

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These are my personal experiences for these MU's.

Pit Vs Wario - I can say this to be Pit's favor, I've been playing Oracle lately, and I'm starting to see what Pit can really do against Wario. Pit has great approaches, can do excellent shield pressure, especially with grazing shields with his glide attack /D-Air, and Wario seems to have a hard time against, he also gets combo'd rather easily, a D-Throw combo can do some extreme damage and lead to an easy gimp. 60-40 Pit, imo.

Pit Vs Mario - No experience in this MU yet.

Pit Vs Luigi - No experience in this MU yet.

Pit Vs Bowser - Bowser does hit like a truck against Pit, but Pit combo's Bowser hard which leads to about the same amount of damage. Watch out for his Side-B gimicks, think a little harder than you normally would when you fight against a Bowser. Camping is always an option against him, as Pit's arrows can lead into some nasty combos. I agree with this MU being 55-45. Stages, however. I'm not sure, definitely 60-40 on places Pit can run at, probably places like DL64?

Pit Vs Peach - I don't have personal experience in this MU right now, but I always felt like this was in Pit's favor, somehow.

Pit Vs Donkey Kong - The Stronger Kong! Despite me having no experience in this MU.

Pit Vs Diddy Kong - I played a few matches against a friends Diddy, and it was going relatively well, Pit's F-Tilt can shut down Diddy's Side-B approaches, Diddy has great OoS options against Pit if you're happy doing Shield Pressure all the time, Diddy can combo just as easy as Pit can, has some good mindgames. I want to say 55-45 Diddy's favor, that's just starting out speculation.

Pit Vs Captain Falcon: This MU is just as scary as it was in 2.1, except Pit does MUCH better instead of being a body bag to Falcon. My tips would be to just space him away, bait dash dances into his N-air gimmicks, don't try to use arrows much onstage, as they can get punished. F-Tilt does well against his approaches as well, just play it patiently and do a lot of baiting. Definitely Pit's favor right now. 55-45?

Pit Vs Ganondorf - No personal experience in this MU

Pit Vs Wolf - Nothing yet

Pit Vs Fox - Don't have much experience but, I feel Pit can put up a fight against Fox and give him a run for his money. Probably 50-50.

Pit Vs Falco - Nothing yet

Pit Vs Zero Suit Samus - Nothing yet

Pit Vs Zelda - Feels like Pit's favor, but no experience

Pit Vs Shiek - I'm gonna say 60-40 for this MU, with Pit's awesome mobility, combo potential, and zoning, I say it's much better compared to Shieks. Pit can outrange Shiek on most of her attacks and approaches, and Pit can zone amazingly well against her to lead into combos, grabs, kills. Pit can cover almost every option Shiek has, gimp her relatively easily, it's safe to say she has trouble.

Pit Vs Link: Now this MU is personally the most interesting I've come across from playing against other people. In 2.1, both boards argued that the MU was in each characters favor, I argued it was Pit's favor, now here's why. Pit can zone as well as Link can, combo well, has a great recovery, has tools to deal with Link. Now Link can do the same thing, except having massive mobility like Pit. Pit can also control space really well and play the MU from any part of any stage as possible. 55-45 for this.

Pit Vs Toon Link: No experience.

Pit Vs Lucario: No experience against 2.5 Lucario, but in 2.1, Pit got bodied really badly against Lucario, I'm not sure how the MU is gonna be played now.

Pit Vs Pikachu: No experience in this yet

Pit Vs Squirtle: Nothing yet

Pit Vs Ivysaur: After playing against Oracle's Ivysaur, I feel it's in Pit's favor, he can zone better than Ivy, he can approach her much easier compared to her, play a really good camp game if need-be. Off-stage though, Pit can definitely have some trouble gimping Ivysaur since her recovery options are really good, play it safe and Pit has an easy time against her. Want to say 60-40

Pit Vs Charizard: Nothing yet

Pit Vs Marth: Nothing yet

Pit Vs Ike: Nothing yet. Beware: Fenceposts

Pit Vs Lucas: Nothing yet

Pit Vs Ness: You just have to properly space against him, his Fair can be really safe against Pit's approach and he can do some damage, but Pit can return the favor, onstage I'd say fairly even, but when it comes to offstage, Pit just wrecks ness. Multiple options to keep him off-stage, his arrows can destroy PK Thunder recoveries, I say just get him off and snipe! So, if anything, I want to say 55-45 for Pit.

Pit Vs DeDeDe: Nothing yet

Pit Vs R.O.B: Pit does such a solid job against R.O.B it's not even funny, Pit has so many tools to deal with him now, Arrows can stop his aerial Side-B approaches, Pit's Nair is really good against R.O.B at almost any situation, Pit's Fair can also stop R.O.B's approaches if you time them properly, he can combo R.O.B really easy, especially after grabs and can lead to good kills. 60-40, it may be 70-30 down the line.

Pit Vs G&W: Nothing yet

Pit Vs Snake: This MU requires patience, tons of it. Snake doesn't have a good means to approach, while Pit does, but Snake has a great way to bait his opponents, try to approach safely, catch him off-guard, avoid the bait into his grabs/tech chases/explosives. I don't want to say you have to solely camp but, camping is definitely needed in this MU to ensure a safe approach, kinda like a hit-n-run. You hit while you can, then run until you can repeat. 55-45

Pit Vs Sonic: 2.1 Sonic was indeed hell for Pit, but now, I feel like Pit can definitely deal with Sonic. Pit's Nair is such a great move, especially against Sonic's spin stuff, Pit has the tools to stop Sonic's approaches, great combo potential. Sonic can still go ham but, I feel it's not as good compared to 2.1 Sonic. Stages can also affect this MU, I say try and go to stages with platforms such as BF, DL64, Norfair, Delfino Plaza. I'd avoid flat stages in this MU if possible, especially Dracula's Castle.

One more thing: Up-B combos! They're the best!
 

Archangel

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So basically Pit is the best character in the game with no negative matchups.

No I just haven't found anything worse than even yet. Depending on rules and what stages are legal or not some MU's could become more difficult but as of right now he's got plenty of even match-ups, some slight advantages over some and slightly more of an advantage over others.
 

Get Low

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Since the "Ask Archangel" thread inconveniently got locked, I have a question regarding Pit, even though it doesn't have to do with a matchup. Is his glide attacl L-cancellable? I feel like I'm L-cancelling it, but I don't see the flicker that happens when a move is L-cancelled.
 

BlinkIV

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Yeah, it's good if timed right. I want to know, anyone have any MU's in specific they want to discuss?
 

Archangel

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I need to know about Squirtle, Ivy, and DiddyKong.

I played enough ZSS but the other 3 new characters I can't say where I stand because I've yet to fight someone good enough to show me what I can do or not do in those 3 MU's as Pit.
 

McNinja

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Sooooooo easy to gimp Squirtle's recovery. You should be able to reflect it every time pretty much.

Plus he dies off the top super fast. And Squirtle is a pretty gimp heavy character. We all know how difficult it is to gimp Pit.

Conclusion, at least 60:40 in Pit's favor. Maybe even 65:35.

:phone:
 

BlinkIV

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I can help for Ivy/Diddy, I play a great Diddy and great Ivysaur player pretty darn often.

Ivysaur: Pit can space really well against her, and play really gay if they Ivysaur wants to camp. Gimping her can be a little weird due to her recovery being amazing, but you can just arrow juggle her off-stage and make her come back to you for a free kill move. Probably 60-40, at the very least.

Diddy: This MU is so crazy. Playing against Disqo's Diddy in the past week is really tough for Pit. Yeah, Pit can combo and play gay, it's almost like the MU revolves around playing very gay, or being very patient. Here is where the MU splits though:

If you're playing against a "Melee Diddy", one who doesn't have a good banana game, or monkey flip reads, then Pit can definitely just shut it down.

But if you're playing against a Diddy who does have a great banana game, excellent monkey flip reads, and smart in general, this can be really difficult for Pit.

Pit does have good options to gimp Diddy, and to keep him away (F-Tilt can stop monkey flip if spaced correctly) but it requires the Pit player to think much more compared to other MU's. I'd say 50-50 on this, possibly even 60-40 for Diddy.
 

BlinkIV

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My pit plays what I call skillful gay. Like a blend of sheik's gay with Peach gay...idk...it's just gay.
Lol, it sounds interestingly gay. I'm more of an aggro Pit. It's going be awesome to see how the different Pit styles will affect his metagame.
 

Archangel

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Lol, it sounds interestingly gay. I'm more of an aggro Pit. It's going be awesome to see how the different Pit styles will affect his metagame.
I think I'm a fence pit. I play aggro and campy and I mix up depending on how i feel...idk.

Hmm I found it more of a Falco gay and a Sheik gay.]
Well yeah his gimps feel like sheik...the arrow gimps I mean. Just like the needle gimps.
 

McNinja

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I was thinking Falco gay because Lasers = arrows and I thought Pit was sheik gay because Arrow gimps and D throw.

:phone:
 

Archangel

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it's hard to relate him to other people because nobody else can control the projectiles the way pit does. He does have Falco laser that can be angled and hit more like a powerful Sheik laser.
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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I think I'm a fence pit. I play aggro and campy and I mix up depending on how i feel...idk.



Well yeah his gimps feel like sheik...the arrow gimps I mean. Just like the needle gimps.
This should be the Pit Metagame. Mixups of character spacing plus hard combos when you get close and in the air. Pit should never have a problem unless the enemy has projectiles or a harder to avoid approach
 

BlinkIV

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Up-B OoS is definitely a great tool against Fox, aside from that, I don't have much to add about this MU from not playing against Fox mains. However, Pit CG? Yeeee.
 

Archangel

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updated opinions on pit's MU's


Pit Vs Wario - 60-40

Pit Vs Mario - 50-50

Pit Vs Luigi - 55-45

Pit Vs Bowser - 60-40

Pit Vs Peach - 55-45

Pit Vs Donkey Kong - 60-40

Pit Vs Diddy Kong - 52-48(50-50 if you engage but pit gets an edge in playing gay I think)

Pit Vs Captain Falcon - 55-45

Pit Vs Ganondorf - 55-45

Pit Vs Wolf - 55-45

Pit Vs Fox - 50-50

Pit Vs Falco - 55-45

Pit Vs Zero Suit Samus - 70-30

Pit Vs Zelda - 55-45

Pit Vs Shiek - 55-45

Pit Vs Link - 60-40

Pit Vs Toon Link - 62-38

Pit Vs Lucario - 60-40

Pit Vs Pikachu - 58-42

Pit Vs Jigglypuff - 59-41

Pit Vs Squirtle - 65-35 (downB his recover = GG)

Pit Vs Ivysaur - 58-42 (if you never approach it's bad for Ivy, If you do it gets better)

Pit Vs Charizard - 60-40

Pit Vs Pit - 50-50

Pit Vs Marth -60-40

Pit Vs Ike - 65-35

Pit Vs Lucas - 56-44

Pit Vs Ness - 65-35

Pit Vs DeDeDe - 65-35

Pit Vs R.O.B - 53-47

Pit Vs G&W - 70-30

Pit Vs Snake - 55-45

Pit Vs Sonic - 45-55
 

McNinja

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Squirtle = Pits best matchup imo. Squirt relies on gimps a lot. As we know, Pit isn't the easiest character to gimp.

Also, Squirtle is super easy to edgeguard (especially with the mirror shield). And, Squirtle is light. Up b kills very early.

Why is Pit vs G&W so bad?
:phone:
 

BRLNK88

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lol Archangel, you really think Pit has no bad MUs?
You seem to underestimate how certain characters can exploit his weaknesses.
 

Vixen

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pit has terrible match ups vs fox, falco.

****** pit has like a 50/50 vs gnw. stop playing frauds
 
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