Pit General Match-Up Thread

[Vixen]

I thought he was roy since 2.5, my *****. It's a good comparison, really.

*Neither character can reliably approach characters who CC or shield a lot.
*Neither character can reliably punish characters playform camping at low/mid percentage.
*Both characters have counterintuitive hitboxes. They both hit hardest at the hilt of their sword, and can be punished on reaction if they try to space like Marth/Link.
*Both characters have attacks where just HITTING with them causes you to be punished.

 

[Archangel]

I thought he was roy since 2.5, my *****. It's a good comparison, really.

*Neither character can reliably approach characters who CC or shield a lot.
*Neither character can reliably punish characters playform camping at low/mid percentage.
*Both characters have counterintuitive hitboxes. They both hit hardest at the hilt of their sword, and can be punished on reaction if they try to space like Marth/Link.
*Both characters have attacks where just HITTING with them causes you to be punished.

LOOOOOOOOOOL

I won't lie this is kinda funny and kinda true. Still, He has things Roy doesn't like Wings, Projectile, Easy Combos on a chunk of the cast, Moves that kill with the tip, can also camp well enough(surely better than roy), and he's just generally much better put together than Roy, Especially 2.5 Pit.

If you list the pros and the cons the pros still outweight the cons. Not to mention some of his Cons can be attributed to the overall game physics. If Crouch Canceling is less stupid in the next update, Melee Shields magically show up, the game overall becomes smoother, and the moves the require bad DI/no Crouch canceling are tweaked or simply work better in the next version. He'll have almost no issues. Then....NERF BAT IS COMING!

but until then I'll enjoy trying to find a way to overcome his issues. I still think Pit's very good even if some characters are slightly better and characters that were previously ****ty are now less ****ty.

I'm curious though. Out of all the characters in this game what number would you all currently rate Pit?

 

[Vixen]

Borderline unplayable

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Archangel]

That isn't a number -_-

 

[Metà]

pit is the worst character in the game

 

[Archangel]

I wouldn't go that far. I just think alot of his evolution is...being campy as hell. Since he doesn't have alot of safety compared to a portion of the cast. He's still one of the best. Also 2.6b seems to have fixed his Upsmash.

 

[Coffeemug]

just jumping in. probably missed a lot, but I agree with mizuki to an extent. I don't get to play project m often because I don't have a wii. but when I'm with my friend and get to play I've been maining pit. I just got to try out 2.6 last wednesday and I feel like back when I played 2.5 I could control space somewhat and at least play somewhat agressive when I wanted. but man, I could not follow up arrows with much of anything. And I was shut down by crouch canceling nearly every match. and building damage at a low percent was a chore.

maybe it's because i'm lacking in the ability to practice more often than once in a while but it was a super noticeble difference in a lot of matchup.

and wow that mario was awful to fight, my friend who had never played him picked him up and beat me 6 out of 7 matches. it's super frustrating that it took so little effort to play well with him.

 

[Vixen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdTKjXEgXI lets talk about pikachu.

*Pikachu's Uair, Nair, and Ftilt do very good job of stuffing Pit.
*Pikachu has a difficult time effectively killing Pit
*Pit has a fairly easy time killing Pikachu off Dthrow.

 

[Archangel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdTKjXEgXI lets talk about pikachu.

*Pikachu's Uair, Nair, and Ftilt do very good job of stuffing Pit.
*Pikachu has a difficult time effectively killing Pit
*Pit has a fairly easy time killing Pikachu off Dthrow.

I like this MU I find it very fun. I think you pretty much covered it. Pit can *insert move* into up-b/Uair kill Pikachu or sometimes get him with the life isn't Fair combo. Pikachu does pikachu stuff and it makes pit look like an asshole.

 

[Vixen]

pikachu does pikachu stuff and it makes pit look free as ****.

but sometimes i just kinda killed axe.

he won most of the games.

 

[Coffeemug]

when I play with a pikachu the same skill level as my I don't mind that matchup. I'm just saying, staying aggressive doesn't seem plausible much and the arrow game seems to not be viable against anyone with moderate speed.

 

[Archangel]

when I play with a pikachu the same skill level as my I don't mind that matchup. I'm just saying, staying aggressive doesn't seem plausible much and the arrow game seems to not be viable against anyone with moderate speed.

I've been having alot of success with retreat aerials and wavedash back. gotta love the basics.

 

[Coffeemug]

I actually never retreat my aerials, I should. I'm just saying, i swear I used to be able to go in with pit and pressure/rack up damage without playing cautious. idk, it seems different now. It could really be because I haven't got to play as much as I like.

 

[Vixen]

i had the most success with shield camping vs pika

 

[Archangel]

It's so easy to shield camp in this game. I miss Melee shields. If this game ever gets Melee shielding and techs I'll sell my melee disk.

 

[OgiEthan]

I thought this was supposed to be a brawl thread :'(

 

[OgiEthan]

I thought this was supposed to be a brawl thread :'(

 

[Archangel]

nope, this is Project M thread. A.K.A better than the rest thread.

 

[Vixen]

What the **** do I do vs Peach, the ****. D:

 

[JesseMcCloud]

In actuality, I think some of Pit's worst matchups are against the floatier characters who DI out of his combos, including Peach and the mysterious Mr. L (and Ivy, who's just broken as all get-out.)
In those MUs, I find myself forced into a more defensive game, which is just where they want you, unfortunately.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

So after re-reading the last couple of pages, I'd ask my fellow Pit-mainers what they would do to change Pit out of this "broken state" he seems to be in.
Here are my three suggestions:
1. In my opinion, of some of his moves could do a little more shield-stun/shield-damage. Moves like his nair just seem to glance of shields like they're not even there.
2. Revamp his Utilt. I picture a multi-hit move where he spins his bow above his head, like a grounded version of his Brawl Uair, but with a hitbox more like Mewtwo's Usmash. Essentially a fast, shield-pressure/anti-air move that also serves to pop enemies above Pit for an aerial combo.
3. I've never liked Pit's Up+B. Sure, it's an aerial vertical killer, but it sucks for recovery. I'd rather Pit had a pure recovery-special that he could attack out of and would be harder to gimp, ala Mewtwo's Teleport (I sure seem to be borrowing from M2 a lot, huh?) In turn, a small buff to Uair's knockback for more vertical KO utility might be in order.
Finally, from a purely aesthetic standpoint, what's up with Pit's face during Fsmash's second hit?

 

[CORY]

3. I've never liked Pit's Up+B. Sure, it's an aerial vertical killer, but it sucks for recovery. I'd rather Pit had a pure recovery-special that he could attack out of and would be harder to gimp, ala Mewtwo's Teleport (I sure seem to be borrowing from M2 a lot, huh?)

just side b. it works better for recovery unless you're below the stage, anyway, and then you can attack out of it.

 

[Vixen]

Pit does fine vs Ivy.

My most hated match ups are Fox, Peach, Wolf, and Falco.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Pit does fine vs Ivy.

REALLY??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp7_ip4TvGg

 

[Nausicaa]

Don't jump into arpe.
A lot of how Ivy has been winning in 2.6b is simply due to people jumping into crap that they don't have to. This goes for almost every character vs her.
Pit isn't in a 'broken' state to either being too good OR too bad, he's a solid character in 2.6b, probably needs less 'fixing' than nearly every other character in the game. haha

Don't jump into Peach either, play it the way Falco does, or characters of that nature.

 

[Vixen]

REALLY??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp7_ip4TvGg

that was the first series of game I had played in over a month in an entirely new PM build. Your point?

 

[Vixen]

2.6b pit was mid tier at best,

anyways discuss the new match ups.

pits new nair and dtilt make every match up 100% more manageable its ridiculous.

pit for high tier

 

[Sharkz]

2.6b pit was mid tier at best,

anyways discuss the new match ups.

pits new nair and dtilt make every match up 100% more manageable its ridiculous.

pit for high tier

In what ways can the new nair be used that it couldn't be in 2.6b?

 

[JesseMcCloud]

In what ways can the new nair be used that it couldn't be in 2.6b?

Agreed! If anything, it seems harder to connect with, and leaves Pit vulnerable to counterattacks.

 

[Sharkz]

Agreed! If anything, it seems harder to connect with, and leaves Pit vulnerable to counterattacks.

Actually I didn't mean it in a sarcastic manner. I was genuinely curious. Thanks to finals I haven't really had the chance to test anything out like I wish I could.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Actually I didn't mean it in a sarcastic manner. I was genuinely curious. Thanks to finals I haven't really had the chance to test anything out like I wish I could.

I was serious too. I have no idea what Mizuki means about Pit's nair being better.

 

[cmart]

2.6b pit was mid tier at best,

anyways discuss the new match ups.

pits new nair and dtilt make every match up 100% more manageable its ridiculous.

pit for high tier

Given your post history on Pit, I honestly can't tell how serious you are.

 

[Vixen]

In what ways can the new nair be used that it couldn't be in 2.6b?

Nair being a true drill in 3.0 means nair to grab, jab 1, or down tilt is a true combo even if connecting at 0%. This means that Pit finally has a legitimate anti-crouch cancel tool. It can't be strung together the way it could be in earlier games, but it gained an arguably more important tool in making the low % game MUCH easier to deal with.

Dtilt having 2 iasa frames near the end of the animation means that dtilt frame traps that he had in previous versions are even safer than they were before. I've been able to string silly things together like dtilt > Dash cancel > dtilt > dash cancel > dtilt across the entire stage with di away/hard di away starting between 40-60% on midweights and fast fallers.

Given your post history on Pit, I honestly can't tell how serious you are.

I'm actually 100% serious. 2.6's changes to Pit angered me. removing the waveland after arrow, and nerfing the first hit of up smash took a huge **** on his ability to A. win in neutral and B. deal with crouch canceling effectively outside of camping or fishing for grabs. Now, arrow is a high commitment, low reward laser until high percent. 2.0-2.6b Pit felt, as I got better with pit, and better as a player, like a mid-tier character. Two small-on-paper changes are enough to make me feel like he's high-tier material.

Any other questions? :3

 

[Archangel]

Personally, I felt 2.0 pit was fun minus glitches like losing his glide and the fact that his ability to kill was lacking. considering the state of the rest of the cast however I'd say he was pretty decent. 2.5 pit lost the double glide when in the air which made me sad but he got everything else(minus the ability to deal with CC'ing) but I did feel like the buffs to pit in 2.5 made him a top 10 character. Then came 2.6/2.6b....at the start I has a hard time placing Pit. I felt he was still top 10 even if he was number 10. That's mostly do to characters like Diddy/Sonic dropping. However, As more people developed anti-pit knowledge it became increasingly difficult to deal with seemingly anybody who was familiar with the character. Around the time I stopped playing 2.6b and went back to training in melee I'd say...my final 2.6b placing of pit would probably be somewhere below Fox,Falco,Mario,Wario,Snake,Ivy,ZSS,Sheilda, Wolf, Lucas, Bowser, Metaknight, and Marth. So...I guess 14th at highest? assuming nobody is slipping my mind atm? which pretty much syncs with Mizu's thoughts on him gravitating towards middle tier.

However, 3.0 Pit feels like he's back in business. I actually want to play him again. To be clear, I've always wanted to play pit...but I like pit's style direction ALOT more now than in any other version. As someone who plays marf in melee. YES!@ Grab improvement. As someone who secondaries Fox YES! @ drill changes. not to mention all of his other changes work together for a much more enjoyable aggro gameplay experience. No more running with arrows hoping someone makes a mistake or randomly kills me when I attempt to approach or use a smash attack like usmash.

GG's Cmart. I think it's safe to say you win Dev of the year award.

 

[Vixen]

Personally my 2.6b tier list was along the lines of like...

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Peach
5. Metaknight
6. Wolf
7. Mario
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ivysaur
10. Zelda

11. Pit

Pit was still better than most of the rest of the cast, and did just fine vs Metaknight, Mario, Ivysaur, and Zelda. He lost to 6/10 of the top tier character, and had mostly advantageous match ups vs the rest of the cast. Examining the cast more in-depth, Pit actually is still a fairly solid character, but he still falls in to the top of mid tier. If we compared Pit to a character in Melee, it would be Doc. He is notably better than the rest of the cast, and has a few decent match ups in the top tiers, but character experience invalidates a lot of what Pit can do. If a Pit is winning on screen we can assume that at least one of two things is true.

A. The Pit is the better player.
B. Pit's opponent does not know the Pit match up.

In many cases based on videos posted, and tournament results, it was B more often than A. In my case, players notably worse than me overall have actually taken sets off me in tournament because they just knew the Pit match up well enough. Switching to a different character yielded the expected result of me winning. Some of Pit's match ups are also so bad that for example:

Though Silly Kyle, and DJ Nintendo are better players than me, we're of comparable skill level. You would expect close 1 and 2 stock matches. What ACTUALLY happens DJN, and Kyle, with no Pit experience, both demolished my Pit, because the Fox and Peach match ups are just THAT heavily skewed in their favor, which further brings down my opinion of Pit. Hard counters in the top tier made Pit's overall tournament viability of a character that much worse in pre-3.0.

ZSS lost to any character that can do good character things, her whip clanks with thinks, and her fully charged stun gun gets clanked with a lot of common moves.

Lucas had a highly exploitable recovery, and approach. Any character that can camp 45 degrees above him.

Bowser lost to any character with a good grab game, and decent mobility.

Wario just kinda sucks. Idk. Same with Snake. Snake felt incomplete as a character.

Marth had no significant changes to him as a character and loses to pretty much every character in at least the top 11 or so slots.

 

[Archangel]

Personally my 2.6b tier list was along the lines of like...

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Peach
5. Metaknight
6. Wolf
7. Mario
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ivysaur
10. Zelda

11. Pit

Pit was still better than most of the rest of the cast, and did just fine vs Metaknight, Mario, Ivysaur, and Zelda. He lost to 6/10 of the top tier character, and had mostly advantageous match ups vs the rest of the cast. Examining the cast more in-depth, Pit actually is still a fairly solid character, but he still falls in to the top of mid tier. If we compared Pit to a character in Melee, it would be Doc. He is notably better than the rest of the cast, and has a few decent match ups in the top tiers, but character experience invalidates a lot of what Pit can do. If a Pit is winning on screen we can assume that at least one of two things is true.

A. The Pit is the better player.
B. Pit's opponent does not know the Pit match up.

In many cases based on videos posted, and tournament results, it was B more often than A. In my case, players notably worse than me overall have actually taken sets off me in tournament because they just knew the Pit match up well enough. Switching to a different character yielded the expected result of me winning. Some of Pit's match ups are also so bad that for example:

Though Silly Kyle, and DJ Nintendo are better players than me, we're of comparable skill level. You would expect close 1 and 2 stock matches. What ACTUALLY happens DJN, and Kyle, with no Pit experience, both demolished my Pit, because the Fox and Peach match ups are just THAT heavily skewed in their favor, which further brings down my opinion of Pit. Hard counters in the top tier made Pit's overall tournament viability of a character that much worse in pre-3.0.

ZSS lost to any character that can do good character things, her whip clanks with thinks, and her fully charged stun gun gets clanked with a lot of common moves.

Lucas had a highly exploitable recovery, and approach. Any character that can camp 45 degrees above him.

Bowser lost to any character with a good grab game, and decent mobility.

Wario just kinda sucks. Idk. Same with Snake. Snake felt incomplete as a character.

Marth had no significant changes to him as a character and loses to pretty much every character in at least the top 11 or so slots.

I have to say most of which you stated is probably true but I'd like to know how Wario and Snake suck? At time overrated? possible if not probably. Reflex for example shifted between Wario and Ivy in order to deal with each's more difficult Match-ups or at time beat someone who has a good MU but didnt know it. Wario and Ivy by themselves are both good but not SS tier as some suggested.

I can understand why one would say snake sucks, Not the fastest, has the worst air mobility in the game...I don't even know if he can DI out of Pillar combos :D. Still he has some of the silliest follow ups/chains in the game that I've ever seen. In the right hands I think he was at least...good. His performances has shown he's capable of placing top 3 in many events ranging from local to national events.

so....I'm wondering what you mean. why would you claim they suck?

 

[Vixen]

Reflex's wario still felt like wario. A fairly limited character. AKA sucks. Same with snake.

Axe places top 3-5 fairly consistently with Pikachu in melee despite Pika being an awful character. Isai frequently gets top 2 in SSB64 with the bottom tier characters. Taj gets top 16/top 8 finishes at large tournaments with M2.

Just because they place well doesn't mean the character is good. This is why I do NOT use tournament results as an indicator of individual character strength.

 

[Archangel]

Reflex's wario still felt like wario. A fairly limited character. AKA sucks. Same with snake.

Axe places top 3-5 fairly consistently with Pikachu in melee despite Pika being an awful character. Isai frequently gets top 2 in SSB64 with the bottom tier characters. Taj gets top 16/top 8 finishes at large tournaments with M2.

Just because they place well doesn't mean the character is good. This is why I do NOT use tournament results as an indicator of individual character strength.

you are confusing me with someone else. I do NOT base my opinions on characters 100% entirely off tournament results. With that said, I'd say Fox and Falco are still easily top 10 characters and coincidentally...they are constantly placing high in tournaments. So do many other characters both you and I agree are top 10.

If you want to make the point that Wario is limited to being campy and fat you can make that argument, same could be made for jigglypuff actually and Puff has seen a decrease in usefulness in PM. If you want to make the argument that Snake is limited in approach options, has a lack of mixups on non fast falling characters, and is easier to combo then a sandbag you could make that arguement as well. but please....don't insult me by insinuating that I'm one of those people who worship tournament placings as holy script. c'mon man.

 

[Nausicaa]

Pit mid-tier at beast = top 30%
Cool? haha

Don't be so sure people are men on forums, Archangel

I still have no idea how a more stream-lined N-Air works better on a well-spread character of diversity, whatever floats your boat I guess. My game-plan suffered in efficiency and dynamics from the change slightly.

Wario was a monster in every patch, and still is a monster. Any character who is both safest AND most threatening when they are literally IN THE PROCESS of attacking their opponent face-first, is a good character. Nobody abused the free-kill-every-minute, and now it's every 30 seconds too. The character is stupid even with stupid sliding-on-belly gone. Yoshi the same 'offense-first' thing going too. JERKS!!!

Pit was a beast, and is a beast. Not much changed, just a little different with OOS stuff, and N-Air things.

 

[cmart]

GG's Cmart. I think it's safe to say you win Dev of the year award.

I dunno what my track record is, but reactions to my work are certainly mixed. : P
Glad to see you guys are happy with him again though.