sunshade
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 863
Pirate Ship: how to abuse the stage and why it should be banned
Pirate Ship is currently a legal counter pick in many tournaments and is very well liked among some and hated among others. Opinion aside, the stage has one major flaw to it. This flaw would be the rudder of the ship (the tiny piece of wood that is turned left and right to control the ship), which, unlike the bow and the underbelly of the ship, does not have a hitbox to kill players when they move below the ship. This may not seem to be that big of a deal at first, because, after all, what difference could this little chunk of wood make? Surprisingly, it causes matches to become horridly degenerate in the wrong hands.
What is the problem?
So, first and foremost, what is this stage breaking tactic? Well, to answer that question, the name of the tactic is "ruddercamping," and it's the act of using a short hopped aerial or special to cause the player's character to sink into the water and then float up underneath the boat and get caught on the the ship's rudder, which, unlike the rest of the ship, will not instantly kill you.
To perform this, go onto Pirate Ship with Ganondorf and run into the body of water on the right side of the screen. Short hop down B with Ganondorf; if done properly, you will fly down so far into the water you will show up as a little red circle for a few moments. Now that you can perform this dive, move closer to the back of the ship and perform the tactic again and you will notice you can swim under the ship. If you swim under the ship to far you will hit the belly of the ship and instantly die, however, if you float up at just the right spot you can catch the rudder of the ship and stay underwater as long as you like.
Here's an image displaying ruddercamping given to me by bobson.
(Here is a demonstration of rudder camping. I do not own or take credit for this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTkjItgz5c0)
So why does this matter?
Let's say a player gets a stock lead and then runs away and uses the ruddercamping tactic to move under the rudder of the ship. The player under the ship now appears to be completely safe from all forms of attack and can simply wait until the clock runs out and he or she wins the match.
But can't we just disqualify the person for stalling and make this a non-issue?
Taken from the recommended rule set
"Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling"
Sadly, ruddercamping is called camping—not stalling—for a reason. Ruddercamping can be defeated by most characters, and, if someone does not know how to fight ruddercamping, then the person on stage, by not fighting, is the person stalling, not the person under the rudder. Getting disqualified from a tournament for stalling when your opponent is swimming underwater seems very fair right?
So who can stop ruddercamping and how?
Those who can stop ruddercamping using projectiles. Group 1
The use of a projectile to prevent this is straightforward and easy to understand not much is needed to be said on the manner. If the words are in red then it means that if the King of the Red Lions is on stage you cannot stop the ruddercamping in any way.
Mario can use his Neutral-B. Group 1
Rob can use his Neutral-B
Pit can use his Neutral-B
Pikachu can use his or her Neutral-B
Snake can use his Neutral-B
Lucas can use his Up-B
Ness can use his Up-B
King Dedede can use his Side-B.
Zelda can use her Side-B
Samus can use her Side-B
Diddy can use his Down-B
Peach can use her Down-B
Link can use his Down-B
Those who can stop ruddercamping using diving. Group 2
Diving refers to using a short hopped move to launch yourself into the water and hit the foe. This is also very effective, but not as effective as using a projectile. Some characters have to wait for the ship to bob up slightly to move under the ship and many of these characters will kill themselves if they mess up, although with practice that stops being an issue.
Sonic Can use his Down-air
Toon Link can use his Down-air
Mr. Game and Watch can use his Down-air
:shiek: Sheik can use her Down-air
Zerosuit Samus can use her Down-air
Ice climbers can use their Down-air
Ganondorf can use his Down-B
Captain Falcon can use his Down-B
Yoshi can use his Down-B
Wolf can use his Up-B
Wario can use Side-B
Those who can stop ruddercamping using a pushing method. Group 3
Pushing refers to the act of using an attack to drop yourself into the water that does not do damage to the person under the rudder. In order to combat ruddercamping, you must perform the move to enter the water and then physically swim against them to push them into the ship's death zone.
Kirby can use his Side-B
Ike can use his Down-B
Fox can use his Down-B
Metaknight can use his Down-B
Marth can use his Down-B
Those who cannot stop ruddercamping in any way shape or form. Group 4
Why groups 3 and 4 are equally ineffective when combating ruddercamping.
When comparing the effectiveness of groups 3 and 4, I like to use a hypothetical scenario between Ganondorf and Fox which illustrates how simply pushing the opponent results in very little positive results.
The stage is set: Ganondorf is in the lead by one stock with 193% damage. He is facing fox coming back with 50% damage, because fox got nailed by a bomb while not looking (the damage source makes no difference really). Ganondorf, knowing full well he cannot win this encounter, runs into the water and uses his down-B to stay below the rudder. Fox thinks he has Ganondorf in checkmate and runs into the water as well and uses his down-B to move downwards into the water.
Situation 1
Now that he is moving down, Fox can move to his left to push Ganondorf into the death zone on the ship and kill Ganondorf. Ganondorf, however, knows this and decides to move to the right to avoid this. Ganondorf passes fox and floats to the surface while Fox is still below him. Fox is still behind and needs to kill Ganondorf, so he floats back up as well but he is now in danger because leaving the water you are highly susceptible to a Ganondorf down air. Fox now has two choices: float up get nailed in the face by Ganondorfs boot and die a painful death, or stay below the rudder and wait as Ganondorf wins by default.
Situation 2
Now that he is moving down, Fox can move to his left to push Ganondorf into the death zone on the ship and kill Ganondorf. Ganondorf, however, knows this and decides to move to the right to avoid this. Ganondorf meets Fox and continues to swim to the right while Fox swims left, and a stalemate occurs. Ganondorf suddenly realizes that if he stops swimming to the right he will die and at the same time Fox realizes that if he stops swimming left then Ganondorf will do what we just read in Situation 1. Both Ganondorf and Fox, in what can only be described as a battle of power and skill, violently swim right and left respectively! This continues until one gives up and dies or the time runs out and Ganondorf wins by default.
So how does affect me?
Pirate Ship deals out a disgusting amount of bias in many match-ups and if your tournament is going to have Pirate Ship legal I highly suggest you abuse this yourself. Ruddercamping is capable of being stopped by the majority of characters and as a result the tactic is not bad enough to deserve a ban on it. Because of this, you cannot be disqualified for ruddercamping according to the SBR recommended rule set, which I assume your TO will be following.
In total, if you calculate how many match-ups become a one stock = win situation, you end up with an absurd amount.
There are 8 characters who cannot stop ruddercamping and 17 who can get under the rudder totaling 136 matches. If you add in the match-ups between the 5 who can ruddercamp but cannot stop it effectively themselves, you end up with a total of 85 match-ups totaling 221 degenerate match-ups out of a total of 1369 possible match-ups.
My advice to you.
You cannot be disqualified for ruddercamping and it can give you free wins if your opponent does not know how to combat it or is playing a character that cannot combat it. My advice to you would be to either ask your local tournament official to ban Pirate Ship or to go out and get a few free victories in tournament and as a result money. There are 221 matches that this is near guaranteed to work. The tornado and rock are the only things that can help an ignorant player or a character who cannot stop ruddercamping, and they both appear randomly during a match, if at all. The rock's appearance is bad but not as bad as the tornado, because you can camp under the rock in the same way you can under the rudder. The tornado leaves you open for however long it lasts, but you can abuse the low gravity making this trivial as well. So go out there get some free money and maybe a tournament under your belt while you are at it.
The conclusion
Pirate Ship suffers the plague of a silly and degenerate tactic which is not worthy of being banned. If a tournament official wants to allow Pirate Ship, he or she must be ready to deal with the complaints of players losing to a legal but very frustrating tactic. If the tournament official disqualifies a player because they used ruddercamping, the tournament official will be in jeopardy of being called out for banning a tactic which does not guarantee a win the vast majority of match-ups. If a tournament official wants to be safe, then the best option would be to ban Pirate Ship.
Enjoy those free wins if your TO does not ban the stage. Hopefully you have enjoyed reading this post. Thanks to Sucumbio, and Bobson, for their help.
Pirate Ship is currently a legal counter pick in many tournaments and is very well liked among some and hated among others. Opinion aside, the stage has one major flaw to it. This flaw would be the rudder of the ship (the tiny piece of wood that is turned left and right to control the ship), which, unlike the bow and the underbelly of the ship, does not have a hitbox to kill players when they move below the ship. This may not seem to be that big of a deal at first, because, after all, what difference could this little chunk of wood make? Surprisingly, it causes matches to become horridly degenerate in the wrong hands.
What is the problem?
So, first and foremost, what is this stage breaking tactic? Well, to answer that question, the name of the tactic is "ruddercamping," and it's the act of using a short hopped aerial or special to cause the player's character to sink into the water and then float up underneath the boat and get caught on the the ship's rudder, which, unlike the rest of the ship, will not instantly kill you.
To perform this, go onto Pirate Ship with Ganondorf and run into the body of water on the right side of the screen. Short hop down B with Ganondorf; if done properly, you will fly down so far into the water you will show up as a little red circle for a few moments. Now that you can perform this dive, move closer to the back of the ship and perform the tactic again and you will notice you can swim under the ship. If you swim under the ship to far you will hit the belly of the ship and instantly die, however, if you float up at just the right spot you can catch the rudder of the ship and stay underwater as long as you like.
Here's an image displaying ruddercamping given to me by bobson.
(Here is a demonstration of rudder camping. I do not own or take credit for this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTkjItgz5c0)
So why does this matter?
Let's say a player gets a stock lead and then runs away and uses the ruddercamping tactic to move under the rudder of the ship. The player under the ship now appears to be completely safe from all forms of attack and can simply wait until the clock runs out and he or she wins the match.
But can't we just disqualify the person for stalling and make this a non-issue?
Taken from the recommended rule set
"Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling"
Sadly, ruddercamping is called camping—not stalling—for a reason. Ruddercamping can be defeated by most characters, and, if someone does not know how to fight ruddercamping, then the person on stage, by not fighting, is the person stalling, not the person under the rudder. Getting disqualified from a tournament for stalling when your opponent is swimming underwater seems very fair right?
So who can stop ruddercamping and how?
Those who can stop ruddercamping using projectiles. Group 1
The use of a projectile to prevent this is straightforward and easy to understand not much is needed to be said on the manner. If the words are in red then it means that if the King of the Red Lions is on stage you cannot stop the ruddercamping in any way.
Mario can use his Neutral-B. Group 1
Rob can use his Neutral-B
Pit can use his Neutral-B
Pikachu can use his or her Neutral-B
Snake can use his Neutral-B
Lucas can use his Up-B
Ness can use his Up-B
King Dedede can use his Side-B.
Zelda can use her Side-B
Samus can use her Side-B
Diddy can use his Down-B
Peach can use her Down-B
Link can use his Down-B
Those who can stop ruddercamping using diving. Group 2
Diving refers to using a short hopped move to launch yourself into the water and hit the foe. This is also very effective, but not as effective as using a projectile. Some characters have to wait for the ship to bob up slightly to move under the ship and many of these characters will kill themselves if they mess up, although with practice that stops being an issue.
Sonic Can use his Down-air
Toon Link can use his Down-air
Mr. Game and Watch can use his Down-air
:shiek: Sheik can use her Down-air
Zerosuit Samus can use her Down-air
Ice climbers can use their Down-air
Ganondorf can use his Down-B
Captain Falcon can use his Down-B
Yoshi can use his Down-B
Wolf can use his Up-B
Wario can use Side-B
Those who can stop ruddercamping using a pushing method. Group 3
Pushing refers to the act of using an attack to drop yourself into the water that does not do damage to the person under the rudder. In order to combat ruddercamping, you must perform the move to enter the water and then physically swim against them to push them into the ship's death zone.
Kirby can use his Side-B
Ike can use his Down-B
Fox can use his Down-B
Metaknight can use his Down-B
Marth can use his Down-B
Those who cannot stop ruddercamping in any way shape or form. Group 4
Why groups 3 and 4 are equally ineffective when combating ruddercamping.
When comparing the effectiveness of groups 3 and 4, I like to use a hypothetical scenario between Ganondorf and Fox which illustrates how simply pushing the opponent results in very little positive results.
The stage is set: Ganondorf is in the lead by one stock with 193% damage. He is facing fox coming back with 50% damage, because fox got nailed by a bomb while not looking (the damage source makes no difference really). Ganondorf, knowing full well he cannot win this encounter, runs into the water and uses his down-B to stay below the rudder. Fox thinks he has Ganondorf in checkmate and runs into the water as well and uses his down-B to move downwards into the water.
Situation 1
Now that he is moving down, Fox can move to his left to push Ganondorf into the death zone on the ship and kill Ganondorf. Ganondorf, however, knows this and decides to move to the right to avoid this. Ganondorf passes fox and floats to the surface while Fox is still below him. Fox is still behind and needs to kill Ganondorf, so he floats back up as well but he is now in danger because leaving the water you are highly susceptible to a Ganondorf down air. Fox now has two choices: float up get nailed in the face by Ganondorfs boot and die a painful death, or stay below the rudder and wait as Ganondorf wins by default.
Situation 2
Now that he is moving down, Fox can move to his left to push Ganondorf into the death zone on the ship and kill Ganondorf. Ganondorf, however, knows this and decides to move to the right to avoid this. Ganondorf meets Fox and continues to swim to the right while Fox swims left, and a stalemate occurs. Ganondorf suddenly realizes that if he stops swimming to the right he will die and at the same time Fox realizes that if he stops swimming left then Ganondorf will do what we just read in Situation 1. Both Ganondorf and Fox, in what can only be described as a battle of power and skill, violently swim right and left respectively! This continues until one gives up and dies or the time runs out and Ganondorf wins by default.
So how does affect me?
Pirate Ship deals out a disgusting amount of bias in many match-ups and if your tournament is going to have Pirate Ship legal I highly suggest you abuse this yourself. Ruddercamping is capable of being stopped by the majority of characters and as a result the tactic is not bad enough to deserve a ban on it. Because of this, you cannot be disqualified for ruddercamping according to the SBR recommended rule set, which I assume your TO will be following.
In total, if you calculate how many match-ups become a one stock = win situation, you end up with an absurd amount.
There are 8 characters who cannot stop ruddercamping and 17 who can get under the rudder totaling 136 matches. If you add in the match-ups between the 5 who can ruddercamp but cannot stop it effectively themselves, you end up with a total of 85 match-ups totaling 221 degenerate match-ups out of a total of 1369 possible match-ups.
My advice to you.
You cannot be disqualified for ruddercamping and it can give you free wins if your opponent does not know how to combat it or is playing a character that cannot combat it. My advice to you would be to either ask your local tournament official to ban Pirate Ship or to go out and get a few free victories in tournament and as a result money. There are 221 matches that this is near guaranteed to work. The tornado and rock are the only things that can help an ignorant player or a character who cannot stop ruddercamping, and they both appear randomly during a match, if at all. The rock's appearance is bad but not as bad as the tornado, because you can camp under the rock in the same way you can under the rudder. The tornado leaves you open for however long it lasts, but you can abuse the low gravity making this trivial as well. So go out there get some free money and maybe a tournament under your belt while you are at it.
The conclusion
Pirate Ship suffers the plague of a silly and degenerate tactic which is not worthy of being banned. If a tournament official wants to allow Pirate Ship, he or she must be ready to deal with the complaints of players losing to a legal but very frustrating tactic. If the tournament official disqualifies a player because they used ruddercamping, the tournament official will be in jeopardy of being called out for banning a tactic which does not guarantee a win the vast majority of match-ups. If a tournament official wants to be safe, then the best option would be to ban Pirate Ship.
Enjoy those free wins if your TO does not ban the stage. Hopefully you have enjoyed reading this post. Thanks to Sucumbio, and Bobson, for their help.
P.S Bobson is the most greatest and amazing person to ever exist and easily comparable to, if not exceeding, Jesus Christ of Nazareth.