-Chad-
Slackerator
Nope...don't think he is.. =x
-
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Guide Pika's Matchups
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
PikaPika!
Smash Ace
Get lucky? I dunno iv tried that before and everytime I did link would catch me in it.
Anther
Smash Champion
You'll get caught in the parts where pika's hitbox goes crazy, but other than that I've went straight through like way after the invincibility frames of grabbing the ledge should be over.
You have to drop down low enough so that when you first hit up-b, when pika's body's stretching he doesn't get hit at that point. I'll record it at my next vid session XD.
This also kind of explains how everytime he does his up+b and I go the the ledge, it never hits me... But I might also be crazy...
It also makes doing pika's superWD off projectiles a bit easier, and make a bit more sense, because what's been messing it up on occasion was the timing of pikachu changing directions making him vulnerable...
Though I've never seen frame data to support it... and even doubt it a bit myself, I have a feeling that Pika's partially invulnerable during his up+b..., with the 2 points where he stretches being the vulnerable points of it.
You have to drop down low enough so that when you first hit up-b, when pika's body's stretching he doesn't get hit at that point. I'll record it at my next vid session XD.
This also kind of explains how everytime he does his up+b and I go the the ledge, it never hits me... But I might also be crazy...
It also makes doing pika's superWD off projectiles a bit easier, and make a bit more sense, because what's been messing it up on occasion was the timing of pikachu changing directions making him vulnerable...
Though I've never seen frame data to support it... and even doubt it a bit myself, I have a feeling that Pika's partially invulnerable during his up+b..., with the 2 points where he stretches being the vulnerable points of it.
PikaPika!
Smash Ace
Ill need to try that out then.
Nigachu
Smash Apprentice
That seems kinda weird mostly because my friends Link uses the spin attack to edgeguard all the time and I have tried using quick attack on the ledge as a mind game and I still get hit. There must be invinciblity frames somewhere during quick attack for that to make sense.
Anther
Smash Champion
See... that's the thing. He yelled at me because he claims pika has invincibility frames during quick attack... and getting gimped by QA isn't cool.
But anyways, he like forced me to do the experiment, and that brought about the Holy ****! moment, because I was literally going through the attack, time and time again. You just have to start the quick attack at a point where pikachu doesn't stretch himself out and get hit, and make sure he's gonna go high enough that when he does it again he still won't get hit. I was definitely going straight up and down with QA during the middle of the spin.
But I could also assume that he's just skipping the sword hitbox... so.. yeah... and who says that doing that isn't just as good as invincibility??? It's not me who says that.
But anyways, he like forced me to do the experiment, and that brought about the Holy ****! moment, because I was literally going through the attack, time and time again. You just have to start the quick attack at a point where pikachu doesn't stretch himself out and get hit, and make sure he's gonna go high enough that when he does it again he still won't get hit. I was definitely going straight up and down with QA during the middle of the spin.
But I could also assume that he's just skipping the sword hitbox... so.. yeah... and who says that doing that isn't just as good as invincibility??? It's not me who says that.
NES n00b
Smash Master
A Link player yelled at you for invincibity frames during quick attacks? Ok then. lol
The matchup for Link should say "Link counters Pika due to him being more awesome" but there will also be a little disclaimer saying "but -Chad- counters all Links."
Ok, I will end the shameless Midsouth and Link advertising. XD
*Runs away*
The matchup for Link should say "Link counters Pika due to him being more awesome" but there will also be a little disclaimer saying "but -Chad- counters all Links."
Ok, I will end the shameless Midsouth and Link advertising. XD
*Runs away*
-Chad-
Slackerator
Well I looked at Seanson's hit box thingie, and Pika's quick attack has no invincibility frames =x
D. Disciple
Smash Master
I think Anther is getting the invincibility frames from letting go of the edge, even though it Pika there isn't that many frames to begin with, by that time. Correct me if I'm wrong but by the time Pika goes back down, Link's hitbox with Up-b is closer to his body instead of the outer area of the master sword, so the Link might not have proper spacing or something. Still it's a cool thing to know.
Nigachu
Smash Apprentice
Your probably right on the hitbox being closer to Link's body or it may just be skipping the hitbox altogether the way Anther says it does. All in all it's really a tough call without some type of vid to show proof. Untill that happens, im still inclined to believe it doesn't work do to my past experiences with this situation.
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Well while I was practicing with Pika yesterday, comboing on the 3 swordsman. I found that Pika can indeed go through them without getting hit by their blades. Roy kept trying to ftilt/fsmash me a lot. Link kept trying to jab me and ftilt, and Marth tried a lot of things, he did a dance blade. (CPU AI is awesome on my game for some reason) But yeah I was just doing quick attack up and down, at different heights and they couldn't hit me. Then again I might've gotten lucky, especially with the Marth one.
Anther - Look into this more, and test it out with other characters. I would but my partner doesn't have time for such meaningless things. That's what he would say.
Anther
Smash Champion
dat ***** is invincible XD... or skipping hitboxes... which contributes a lot to Pika not getting hit out of his diagonal sweetspot at close to max distances...
NeeQueoHH
Smash Apprentice
well maybe since link is spinning, pika is QAing through the sword before the sword goes all the way around. Is that possible?? haha
pikachun00b7
Smash Lord
Maybe marth should sharpen his sword?
festizzio
Smash Champion
I like Kongo Jungle 64 against Fox, high ceiling means his usmash and uairs kill at higher percents which is good, and you have fsmash to get him off the stage, and it's pretty simple to edgeguard on this stage. It also happens to be one of my favorites cuz of the moving platforms and the slanted plats on the sides of the stage. 
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
so is pokemon stadium just an overall good stage for pikachu? like, when in doubt for counterpicking, i can't really go wrong with choosing that stage?
festizzio
Smash Champion
Stadium's my favorite level. :D I don't know what it is either, it just seems easier to sweetspot; it could also have something to do with it being pokemon stadium, the mental aspect and all. I just always seem to be playing better on that stage. :D
Afro Justin
Smash Journeyman
Pokemon Stadium also makes it super easy to edge guard with forward smash; the lips on either side of the stage allow your forward smash to go under the corner, effectively--more so on some changes than others--so you can basically make it impossible for the opponent to sweetspot. The platforms are good for getting out of chain grabs and some combos and whatnot, and we can't forget home field advantage. I think that's totally what it is.
I find that it's a decent stage if you don't know where else to go, but depending on the match-up, it might behoove you to counter pick Dreamland or FoD.
I find that it's a decent stage if you don't know where else to go, but depending on the match-up, it might behoove you to counter pick Dreamland or FoD.
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
the tree in dreamland drives me insane...i like the stage though...regarding pokemon stadium though...i just kinda did some practicing with techs and sweet-spotting and stuff with it. might have to do with the fact that i mostly practice sweet-spotting on FD, but it feels harder to sweet-spot on pokemon stadium...is that just a mental thing? lol
Afro Justin
Smash Journeyman
Pretty much . . . I find that people sometimes lose themselves under Stadium, but it shouldn't really hurt you as Pikachu.
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
yeah....well...pokemon stadium is probably gonna be my fall-back counterpick stage from now on =D
Anther
Smash Champion
I like FD a lot vs Marth, Ganon, Peach, other characters that you want to run away from a lot.
I prefer FoD, Stadium, and battlefield against Falco/Fox.. (Foxes get too smart on FD x_X)
Dreamland's also alrightish vs Fox... not so much with falco.... the stage is too happy for the carnage that awaits..
Then I just dislike Yoshi's Island... cause I get knocked off the stage... a lot... and I can't do the same quick attack tricksies because of the low platforms. Though I kind of like the stage at the same time... so i'm lying right now =X.
I prefer FoD, Stadium, and battlefield against Falco/Fox.. (Foxes get too smart on FD x_X)
Dreamland's also alrightish vs Fox... not so much with falco.... the stage is too happy for the carnage that awaits..
Then I just dislike Yoshi's Island... cause I get knocked off the stage... a lot... and I can't do the same quick attack tricksies because of the low platforms. Though I kind of like the stage at the same time... so i'm lying right now =X.
festizzio
Smash Champion
Some levels I really dislike: Final Destination (I can't combo without platforms T_T), Dream Land 64 (can't stand the wind and vertical kills with thunder are practically impossible), and Green Greens (low ceiling doesn't make up for the fact that blocks screw me up all the time and the wind is freakin' annoying).
-Chad-
Slackerator
That's kinda wierd Anther =o I dislike FD vs those characters.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
The only ganon I have ever lost to on FD was Eddie. I think Ganon is most dangerous on Battlefield. If I take a ganon, falcon, fox, or falco to FD, I win 90% of the time. In every friendly I have ever played against Jiano, Eddie, Darkrain, Viperboy, Pete Chen, Jazzness, Dmac, and especially anyone lesser those players, its a cakewalk on FD if they play those four characters.
I think I three stocked Dmac's ganon at FD in tourny once, and certainly in friendlies. Jiano banned FD against me in tourny, as I was ripping his falcon apart in friendlies the night before. Viperboy does well against me in early tournies, but has a super difficult time against my pika on dreamland and FD. Having played against SO many space animals and falcons (cunning, darkrian, kish prime, jiano, tapion, viper, etc), I've learned just about every trick in the book while on FD and Dreamland.
I LOVE FD (unless its shiek)
Also, I almost always ban yoshi story. Almost always, unless its a jiggs player.
I think I three stocked Dmac's ganon at FD in tourny once, and certainly in friendlies. Jiano banned FD against me in tourny, as I was ripping his falcon apart in friendlies the night before. Viperboy does well against me in early tournies, but has a super difficult time against my pika on dreamland and FD. Having played against SO many space animals and falcons (cunning, darkrian, kish prime, jiano, tapion, viper, etc), I've learned just about every trick in the book while on FD and Dreamland.
I LOVE FD (unless its shiek)
Also, I almost always ban yoshi story. Almost always, unless its a jiggs player.
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
so...it looks like FD and pokemon stadium are good vs. chars like marth, fox, falco, and falcon...(those are the characters i see the most at school)
Afro Justin
Smash Journeyman
Anyone who can easily beat Pete Chen's Falco on FD knows what they're talking about, so yeah, trust Zig-Zag. I'm not a big fan of FD against space animals though. Here in Norcal we have plenty of them, and I often lose on FD. Marth I like, Fox and Falco I don't. Especially Fox though. The reason is simple:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cqcLxGmgnAs
I beat Zelgadis' Fox on Dreamland and FoD, but on FD i got pounded. Granted, it's an old match and I should have smash DIed out of a lot of those up airs, but whatever. FD is a good stage if you know how to play it. It's my favorite stage, most of the time, but not against Fox.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cqcLxGmgnAs
I beat Zelgadis' Fox on Dreamland and FoD, but on FD i got pounded. Granted, it's an old match and I should have smash DIed out of a lot of those up airs, but whatever. FD is a good stage if you know how to play it. It's my favorite stage, most of the time, but not against Fox.
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
WOWOWOW i used to think zelgadis was one of those pros that a low tier like pikachu couldnt touch! and here you are winning a match against him. i feel a sense of hope for pikachu i didnt have before...thanks for the vids, afro lol. this is the inspiration i need to beat that fox/falco guy at my school who's almost at competitive play --i'm still getting advanced techs down =(. and smash DI is definately going to help against his uairs.
question about marths though...is there a way around their edgeguard? or do i just pray that they mistime it? i can't sweetspot as the sword covers the ledge, and going over them lets marth reposition for another tipper =/. usually for me, if i'm off the edge against a marth, the stock's as good as gone.
question about marths though...is there a way around their edgeguard? or do i just pray that they mistime it? i can't sweetspot as the sword covers the ledge, and going over them lets marth reposition for another tipper =/. usually for me, if i'm off the edge against a marth, the stock's as good as gone.
Afro Justin
Smash Journeyman
Well you're quick attacks are really versatile. Throw them off if you can. Sometimes go up with the first one, sometimes go down. If you can, think about grabbing the ledge after your first quick attack sometimes, too. Also note that if your quick attack ends while you are just above the ground, there is very little lag before you can act again.
Recovery is one of those things that you will just get better at as you play. With Pikachu, though, definitely try to mix it up. You have way more options than a character like Captain Falcon, so try to use them. It's harder to edge guard someone if you don't know where they are going to be.
Recovery is one of those things that you will just get better at as you play. With Pikachu, though, definitely try to mix it up. You have way more options than a character like Captain Falcon, so try to use them. It's harder to edge guard someone if you don't know where they are going to be.
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
ahh, good point, thanks. i think the hardest match up for me is marth. the best player at my level of play just happens to use fox/falco; i've learned a lot from reading this thread though =D
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
Afro, did you ever meet my good smash friend "Toga" (or chris)?
N64
Smash Champion
Ganon with platforms can be kinda scary. Too many waveland trixies makes him too fast. I like FD vs. him, you can spam jolts a fair amount, and edgeguarding him is cake. Dreamland can be good too, he doesn't die outright until a decent percentage, but you don't die at like 60% from a fair, and as long as you can knock him off the stage edgeguarding is so much easier for you than it is for him.
I'm not a big fan of FD vs. peach, it's hard to get under her where you want to be, and it's easier for her to turnip camp than it is for you to jolt camp. You can poke her with uairs through platforms on other stages, and use them to get over her float game.
FD is fine vs. spacies in my opinion. It's kind of annoying vs. falco, lasers suck, and both get paranoid about being grabbed. But all it takes is one rising uair at mid percentage to get a grab, then go crazy CGing until you can usmash thunder for a kill, or just nair edgeguard. Stadium's alright too, but it's just a good pika stage in general. Otherwise, smallish stages are nice vs. falco (preferably battlefield), doesn't give him much chance to lasercamp.
I'm not a big fan of FD vs. peach, it's hard to get under her where you want to be, and it's easier for her to turnip camp than it is for you to jolt camp. You can poke her with uairs through platforms on other stages, and use them to get over her float game.
FD is fine vs. spacies in my opinion. It's kind of annoying vs. falco, lasers suck, and both get paranoid about being grabbed. But all it takes is one rising uair at mid percentage to get a grab, then go crazy CGing until you can usmash thunder for a kill, or just nair edgeguard. Stadium's alright too, but it's just a good pika stage in general. Otherwise, smallish stages are nice vs. falco (preferably battlefield), doesn't give him much chance to lasercamp.
Tagxy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,482
What are the best stages for pikachu in general? My friend plays with shiek and beats 2 out of 3 times on final destination (he says the only "real" map), but I can usually beat him on other levels, especially ones with platforms. But what are good stages to pick for pikachu in general in a 1 on 1 matchup?
N64
Smash Champion
Depends a fair amount on who he's playing against. Pokemon stadium is good for him in general, he can make use of some of the permutations of it; jolt hugs the stage and can make it easier for him to camp on some parts, potential 'infinate' setup spots, etc. Also, fairly far sides (enough that you don't die too easily) and a short enough ceiling that you can still kill with usmash->thunder. FD is good vs. fastfallers in general, and bad vs. anyone that can chainthrow you. Corneria is good against about anyone but fox, usmash kills pretty fast and you can't be chainthrown much there. I like FoD vs. some chars, but it's kinda scary vs. others, and not many pikas like it anyways so it's probably not worth mentioning much. The first post has some of this info, though I should probably update it a bit.
Afro Justin
Smash Journeyman
No, Zig-Zag, I don't think I've ever met 'Toga.' He's in the Norcal area?
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
He told me he played you sometime during the summer, so I thought I'd ask
PsychopathicEmus
Smash Journeyman
oh crap, i just recently discovered...pikachu can chaingrab samus using dthrow XD. that should help me out vs them i suppose?
D. Disciple
Smash Master
No, the Samus would just nair out of it. You can pseudo-chain grab them with Fthrow though. I like to do that around 0-30%.