i wanna mm the pika's with boozer yeayuhz
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Guide Pika's Matchups
- Thread starter N64
- Start date
I love FoD.
It was two seperate thoughts.
One was.
Against Luigi you have to play ground based...
The other thought was...
I love Pikachu's smashs against Lu.
It wasn't... "OMFG SPAM SMASH AGAINST LINGUINI HE CAN DO NOTHINGS!!!!111?:"
It was two seperate thoughts.
One was.
Against Luigi you have to play ground based...
The other thought was...
I love Pikachu's smashs against Lu.
It wasn't... "OMFG SPAM SMASH AGAINST LINGUINI HE CAN DO NOTHINGS!!!!111?:"
N64
Smash Champion
Silly tope.
Linguini isn't a pokemon.
Linguini isn't a pokemon.
Renth
Smash Hero
It was an honor and a lot of fun to play you N64.
N64
Smash Champion
edit: Updated! Not a whole lot was changed honestly. Added a couple lines to about every matchup, a few more or less here and there.
I talked with -Chad- the other day about the matchup list, and we decided on a few changes. I moved Jigglypuff from Easy up to Even, we agreed that it's noticably harder to fight a decent jiggs with pika. The strength of pika's usmash doesn't really pan out well in the fight when you don't get much opportunity at all to use it, and jiggs actually has a decent range advantage on pika in the air. While it's still an advantage pika fight, I don't see it as large enough to warrant Easy ranking anymore.
I also moved Luigi from Even up to Hard. He does get ***** if he's not used to pika's tricks, but as long as he's somewhat smart about it his aerial priority will just eat through pikachu.
Last, I moved Sheik from Hard up to Very Hard. I was optimistic when I first made this that the matchup wasn't as bad as everyone said it was. Pikachu has decent combos on sheik, his fair share of tricks, and counterstrategies to most of what sheik has. It's too touchy of a fight for pika though, where sheik messing up or getting baited usually has much less to fear than pika. Getting grabbed usually doesn't lead to death, but it'll lead to one hit away from death, which is easy enough for sheik to get. While I still think it's not as bad as most pikas say it is, I feel it's fair to now give her Very Hard status.
also, ggs Renth, 'twas hella fun on my end too.
I talked with -Chad- the other day about the matchup list, and we decided on a few changes. I moved Jigglypuff from Easy up to Even, we agreed that it's noticably harder to fight a decent jiggs with pika. The strength of pika's usmash doesn't really pan out well in the fight when you don't get much opportunity at all to use it, and jiggs actually has a decent range advantage on pika in the air. While it's still an advantage pika fight, I don't see it as large enough to warrant Easy ranking anymore.
I also moved Luigi from Even up to Hard. He does get ***** if he's not used to pika's tricks, but as long as he's somewhat smart about it his aerial priority will just eat through pikachu.
Last, I moved Sheik from Hard up to Very Hard. I was optimistic when I first made this that the matchup wasn't as bad as everyone said it was. Pikachu has decent combos on sheik, his fair share of tricks, and counterstrategies to most of what sheik has. It's too touchy of a fight for pika though, where sheik messing up or getting baited usually has much less to fear than pika. Getting grabbed usually doesn't lead to death, but it'll lead to one hit away from death, which is easy enough for sheik to get. While I still think it's not as bad as most pikas say it is, I feel it's fair to now give her Very Hard status.
also, ggs Renth, 'twas hella fun on my end too.
Anther
Smash Champion
Definitely agree with the change in Jiggs... Never really thought Jiggs was an easy matchup.
Is the general consensus still that marth is pika's 2nd worse matchup? It just seems to me that Pika has a lot more going on vs Marth than I originally thought back when I was getting ***** by them... especially once you lose that fear of thinking he relentlessly pwnz Pika.
Is the general consensus still that marth is pika's 2nd worse matchup? It just seems to me that Pika has a lot more going on vs Marth than I originally thought back when I was getting ***** by them... especially once you lose that fear of thinking he relentlessly pwnz Pika.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
I think Jiggs is more in her favor than pika's, when talking about a super competitive matchup of course.
In KC, DYC beat me with his jigs in two super close matches. At the stl circuit tourny, the pika/jigs match versus Sliq in game one went to me, but it was a close match at FD where I took advantage of his risks. I think Jigs has the edge in a super even matchup.
Why are the climbers pika's worst matchup? Not a fun matchup, no...but does noone follow the downsmash, up air, dash grab to back throw seperation techniques? The ice climbers are considerably easy to seperate, and I would laugh at ANYONE who said the climbers were pikas WORST matchup (ahem: shiek)
I agree on the luigi move. Ive been ***** by a luigi in the past, and had to take them to dumb stages to turn the tide. I generally enjoy playing luigi's, but its one of maybe two low tiers Im weary of.
The only other minor thing I noticed...why is Yoshi technically ahead of Zelda and Game and Watch? Zelda and G&W arent the hardest matchups, but...certainly harder than even great yoshis, in my experience.
In KC, DYC beat me with his jigs in two super close matches. At the stl circuit tourny, the pika/jigs match versus Sliq in game one went to me, but it was a close match at FD where I took advantage of his risks. I think Jigs has the edge in a super even matchup.
Why are the climbers pika's worst matchup? Not a fun matchup, no...but does noone follow the downsmash, up air, dash grab to back throw seperation techniques? The ice climbers are considerably easy to seperate, and I would laugh at ANYONE who said the climbers were pikas WORST matchup (ahem: shiek)
I agree on the luigi move. Ive been ***** by a luigi in the past, and had to take them to dumb stages to turn the tide. I generally enjoy playing luigi's, but its one of maybe two low tiers Im weary of.
The only other minor thing I noticed...why is Yoshi technically ahead of Zelda and Game and Watch? Zelda and G&W arent the hardest matchups, but...certainly harder than even great yoshis, in my experience.
N64
Smash Champion
Just thought I'd mention, these aren't ordered within tiers. As it says in the original post (buried in massive wall of text, i know), these are just divided into tiers, not ordered inside the tiers themselves.
edit: If you want me to, I guess my next project could be to try to order them inside the tiers as well, but with as much disagreement as there is already (i.e. I still think ICs is a slightly harder matchup than sheik and many pikas think i'm crazy for it) I forsee it being difficult. I guess i'll think about it though if you all think it's a good idea.
edit: If you want me to, I guess my next project could be to try to order them inside the tiers as well, but with as much disagreement as there is already (i.e. I still think ICs is a slightly harder matchup than sheik and many pikas think i'm crazy for it) I forsee it being difficult. I guess i'll think about it though if you all think it's a good idea.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
Anther
Smash Champion
Get to work 64 =P.
N64
Smash Champion
no rest for the wicked.
kay, expect it all ordered in like a week. Maybe less, maybe more, i'm pretty lazy.
kay, expect it all ordered in like a week. Maybe less, maybe more, i'm pretty lazy.
RaptorHawk
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2005
- Messages
- 787
I'm actually glad to see Jiggs in the even section. I've always thought that Jiggs was at least an even match, but thought I was just stupid or something.
I'm not too familiar with G&W, but im quite familiar with yoshi and zelda and I think zelda should be ahead of yoshi.
I'm not too familiar with G&W, but im quite familiar with yoshi and zelda and I think zelda should be ahead of yoshi.
pikachun00b7
Smash Lord
-Chad-
Slackerator
Ever played a good jiggs? =x
N64
Smash Champion
While some matchups scale linearly with skill, others get exponentially harder as the other's skill improves. Bad-decent jiggs is one of the easiest matches ever. Oh hey, you'll let me usmash you? Cool, free 50% kills. Oh, you learned how to space and I can't anymore? So this isn't so easy anymore.
Also it's cool to see so many on board with the jiggs move, heh. I wonder who mislead me in the past saying it was a huge counter >_>.
I think i'll just rearrange the matchups to create a pseudo-order in a few minutes, no text added.
edit: done, it's ordered now
Also it's cool to see so many on board with the jiggs move, heh. I wonder who mislead me in the past saying it was a huge counter >_>.
I think i'll just rearrange the matchups to create a pseudo-order in a few minutes, no text added.
edit: done, it's ordered now
-Chad-
Slackerator
Space animals are another character that are incredibly harder if it's a better player.
hello there pikachus
there were lots of you at fc o.O
there were lots of you at fc o.O
N64
Smash Champion
why do you have to live in washington gimpy. those were some fun matches.
well... i'm moving to cali...
>_>;;;
i'm sure thats helpful for you lol
>_>;;;
i'm sure thats helpful for you lol
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
Interesting, but good order.
Although, ness over ganon? Both are even-ish, but I guess Ive played enough bushman/eddie to feel that isnt quite right.
Although hopefully I'll be heading out to play some Mow soon, so we'll see.
Although, ness over ganon? Both are even-ish, but I guess Ive played enough bushman/eddie to feel that isnt quite right.
Although hopefully I'll be heading out to play some Mow soon, so we'll see.
N64
Smash Champion
Yeah, I honestly had the toughest time with the even section. The following matchups I have very little experience with:
Link
Young Link
Roy
Ness
G&W
Pichu
I'm fairly certain pichu is absolutely terrible and I don't doubt his placement. Ness, Link, and Roy I can see moving around a fair amount, I'm not too sure on them. Ganon seems pretty good where he's at, a pretty even matchup with pika, with slight advantage to ganon. I could conceivably move Y.Link above him, y.link actually has a decent amount of stuff to worry pika, but at the moment this seems alright.
Mow has said ness owns pika, and I don't have the experience to debate this much. From the limited number of nesses I've played, it seems he has a fair amount to worry pikachu, but I don't know if it's enough for him to stay at the top of even. Hopefully I'll get to play mow relatively soon too and get some further experience on this.
Link
Young Link
Roy
Ness
G&W
Pichu
I'm fairly certain pichu is absolutely terrible and I don't doubt his placement. Ness, Link, and Roy I can see moving around a fair amount, I'm not too sure on them. Ganon seems pretty good where he's at, a pretty even matchup with pika, with slight advantage to ganon. I could conceivably move Y.Link above him, y.link actually has a decent amount of stuff to worry pika, but at the moment this seems alright.
Mow has said ness owns pika, and I don't have the experience to debate this much. From the limited number of nesses I've played, it seems he has a fair amount to worry pikachu, but I don't know if it's enough for him to stay at the top of even. Hopefully I'll get to play mow relatively soon too and get some further experience on this.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
To be fair, I would MUCH rather play Mow in tourny than Bushman, if it were a matter of character matchup.
And Young Link is garbs, Im sorry. He is fine where he is...if I get beat by a young link, Im either asleep, or Im playing Azen.
Roy and G&W can be scary. Ive lost a couple matches to a roy before, but I tend to always win the sets. And G&W can pull a pretty even match versus the chu, but in all honesty, I think chu has the advantage....though dont you go to school relatively near Dire?
And Young Link is garbs, Im sorry. He is fine where he is...if I get beat by a young link, Im either asleep, or Im playing Azen.
Roy and G&W can be scary. Ive lost a couple matches to a roy before, but I tend to always win the sets. And G&W can pull a pretty even match versus the chu, but in all honesty, I think chu has the advantage....though dont you go to school relatively near Dire?
Scissors Sir
Smash Ace
Well I've played mofo, bluchu and mow's ness
I can say ness doesn't own pika.
U can pretty much spend the whole match switching between short hops and full jump aerials and fakes...
Pika is fast enough to maneuver in the air to do so.
Jolts can be used to approach for the simple fact that the attacks that ness can use to cancel it don't have enough range to stop the jolt and an aerial at the same time....unlike some of pika's other matchups...
Pika has a hell of an easier time edge guarding ness than ness does of edge guarding pika.
Ftilt can eat through ness' pk thunder
Whether they tech the ftilt or not they will most likely try another pk thunder
Which equals free tailspike
I dunno maybe mow said that cuz he does good against chu's pika.
Which he should seeing as how chu doesn't main pika....
Also on the jiggly matchup....
Pika isn't locked in by jiggs WOP as much as some other characters...
A WD ftilt helps on the landing bairs
A WD reverse uair helps on the rising bairs
Jolt stops rollout startups
U can't just toss out nairs in this matchup as much.
After some thought...
the pace that u have to play this particular matchup at IMO makes it even.
I can say ness doesn't own pika.
U can pretty much spend the whole match switching between short hops and full jump aerials and fakes...
Pika is fast enough to maneuver in the air to do so.
Jolts can be used to approach for the simple fact that the attacks that ness can use to cancel it don't have enough range to stop the jolt and an aerial at the same time....unlike some of pika's other matchups...
Pika has a hell of an easier time edge guarding ness than ness does of edge guarding pika.
Ftilt can eat through ness' pk thunder
Whether they tech the ftilt or not they will most likely try another pk thunder
Which equals free tailspike
I dunno maybe mow said that cuz he does good against chu's pika.
Which he should seeing as how chu doesn't main pika....
Also on the jiggly matchup....
Pika isn't locked in by jiggs WOP as much as some other characters...
A WD ftilt helps on the landing bairs
A WD reverse uair helps on the rising bairs
Jolt stops rollout startups
U can't just toss out nairs in this matchup as much.
After some thought...
the pace that u have to play this particular matchup at IMO makes it even.
RaptorHawk
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2005
- Messages
- 787
Have you played or seen chu's pika play? I Pika ditto'd him not too long ago and watch him play a few matches against chillen and anden as pika and I must say Chu has a really nice pika. He definitely knows what hes doing when it comes to pika despite not maining him.
chu is by far the best pika i've played
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Yeah I gotta give credit to Chu's pika, it's pretty good, it was pretty fun playing against it in our mm.
Gimpyfish I just have a question, was Chu's pika funner to play against than mine at FCD?
Gimpyfish I just have a question, was Chu's pika funner to play against than mine at FCD?
N64
Smash Champion
I don't like chu's pika >_>.
*inc chu fan flames*
*inc chu fan flames*
funner is not a word lol
chu's was probably "funner" but only because i had about 30 people watching with forward and chillin shouting during the match haha good times
chu's was probably "funner" but only because i had about 30 people watching with forward and chillin shouting during the match haha good times
D. Disciple
Smash Master
In my world it is Gimpy, can you at least give me that?
Yeah true, same thing happen when we did our money match, he turns around to see a crowd and says "**** there are a lot of people around us, sorry everyone I'll put on a better performance."
Yeah true, same thing happen when we did our money match, he turns around to see a crowd and says "**** there are a lot of people around us, sorry everyone I'll put on a better performance."
Scissors Sir
Smash Ace
This isn't a chu bashing/praising thread
The only reason I made reference to chu is cuz mow is the type of person who makes assumptions based on only the people he's around.
I know chu's pika is good
I didn't say it was bad. I just wanted to make sure mow fought a good number of 'good' pikas to come to his conclusion. I know I fought a decent number of 'good' ness to come to mine...
But since people get so defensive they don't look at what was said...
If I said somethin like "azen likes to f**k"
I guarantee someone would come in and say somethin like "u have no right to say f**k azen"
I'm just tryin to understand how mow came to the conclusion that he did. Simple as that. So to raptorhawk and anyone else that may come in later....go outside and get some air.
Now do any of u have anything to say that's on topic?
The only reason I made reference to chu is cuz mow is the type of person who makes assumptions based on only the people he's around.
I know chu's pika is good
I didn't say it was bad. I just wanted to make sure mow fought a good number of 'good' pikas to come to his conclusion. I know I fought a decent number of 'good' ness to come to mine...
But since people get so defensive they don't look at what was said...
If I said somethin like "azen likes to f**k"
I guarantee someone would come in and say somethin like "u have no right to say f**k azen"
I'm just tryin to understand how mow came to the conclusion that he did. Simple as that. So to raptorhawk and anyone else that may come in later....go outside and get some air.
Now do any of u have anything to say that's on topic?
RaptorHawk
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2005
- Messages
- 787
lol chillax man, I wasnt bein defensive or anything like that at all. I was just verifying that Mow does have a basis for his decision. It just seemed to me from your last post that you didn't think Chu's Pika was suffient grounds for mow to come to a conclusion on because he didn't main pika.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
To be fair, Im not a big fan of Chu's pika either. I'm not saying it's not good, but there's a lot to be said about the intuition you gain from maining a character. It's like saying that Isai's Donkey Kong is better than Bum's. I mean, Isai is a great player, but does he really play DK enough to always have every move at the top of his head at all times?
Just a random example. I dont want to be lectured on Isai's ****ing Donkey Kong.
Chu holds a lot of influence though...a lot of the eastern pika's hold that IC's are pika's #1 counter based soley on their experience playing Chu. I've played my fair share of IC's, good and bad...and I must say that playing a mediocore IC player is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than playing a mediocore Shiek player. All you have to do with shiek is do your fair share of tilting and short hopping, and it becomes a sizable challenge.
I agree with Philly. I think Mow might be quick to say that Ness totally destroys pika based off his experience mainly playing Vidjo. That to me, doesn't seem quite right. It's as if Darkrain would have stood up after he lost a friendly to me and went "well, that's it! Pika counters the CRAP out of falcon. GG!" I would give Philly the benifit of the doubt in his experience playing all those Ness players versus Mow's potential pika resume. And if I could add anything to the list, all I would say is that even though I feel like I have a very good grip on the match, Ganon to me is far more dangerous than Ness. Perhaps biased a bit playing for years against Eddie, but coupled with Philly's take on the matter, I would take that into consideration.
Just my Pika opinion.
Just a random example. I dont want to be lectured on Isai's ****ing Donkey Kong.
Chu holds a lot of influence though...a lot of the eastern pika's hold that IC's are pika's #1 counter based soley on their experience playing Chu. I've played my fair share of IC's, good and bad...and I must say that playing a mediocore IC player is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than playing a mediocore Shiek player. All you have to do with shiek is do your fair share of tilting and short hopping, and it becomes a sizable challenge.
I agree with Philly. I think Mow might be quick to say that Ness totally destroys pika based off his experience mainly playing Vidjo. That to me, doesn't seem quite right. It's as if Darkrain would have stood up after he lost a friendly to me and went "well, that's it! Pika counters the CRAP out of falcon. GG!" I would give Philly the benifit of the doubt in his experience playing all those Ness players versus Mow's potential pika resume. And if I could add anything to the list, all I would say is that even though I feel like I have a very good grip on the match, Ganon to me is far more dangerous than Ness. Perhaps biased a bit playing for years against Eddie, but coupled with Philly's take on the matter, I would take that into consideration.
Just my Pika opinion.
Anther
Smash Champion
You should add some information on edgeguarding sheik.
In my opinion, once sheik is off the edge she should stay there. that ***hole.
Quick attack ledgehog at the last possible moment, so sheik won't be able to grab the ledge, while at the same time keeping her from knocking you off with needles/fairs/uairs/other sexyness, and when she's about to vanish on top of you, simply get up on the ledge with the control stick. If shiek vanishes straight up, and you can usually tell when this is her only option, then simply charge a forward smash and knock her off again. If onto the stage, you should jump onto the platform just incase so that you can get in an upsmash or something, but at the same time you'll be able to drop to the lower level of the stage and upsmash to whatever's appropriate at that moment.
Just some bits that've made sheik more tolerable... Also, learn to never get grabbed. Any situation that you think you could get grabbed in... just run... run away...
In my opinion, once sheik is off the edge she should stay there. that ***hole.
Quick attack ledgehog at the last possible moment, so sheik won't be able to grab the ledge, while at the same time keeping her from knocking you off with needles/fairs/uairs/other sexyness, and when she's about to vanish on top of you, simply get up on the ledge with the control stick. If shiek vanishes straight up, and you can usually tell when this is her only option, then simply charge a forward smash and knock her off again. If onto the stage, you should jump onto the platform just incase so that you can get in an upsmash or something, but at the same time you'll be able to drop to the lower level of the stage and upsmash to whatever's appropriate at that moment.
Just some bits that've made sheik more tolerable... Also, learn to never get grabbed. Any situation that you think you could get grabbed in... just run... run away...
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Nair can work too, if you can hit her before the invincibility frames kick in when she vanishes. I love nairing people now for some reason.
Zig-Zag!
Smash Lord
Nair-ing a Shiek and it Working
2001-2001
2001-2001
D. Disciple
Smash Master
I just got owned.
*Walks away in shame*
*Walks away in shame*
Scissors Sir
Smash Ace
Hehehe
2001-2001...lol
Owned indeed.
Now three cheers for online tailspikes!!!
Hopefully...
They better not take that away from pika...
2001-2001...lol
Owned indeed.
Now three cheers for online tailspikes!!!
Hopefully...
They better not take that away from pika...
Scissors Sir
Smash Ace
Hehehe
2001-2001...lol
Owned indeed.
Now three cheers for online tailspikes!!!
Hopefully...
They better not take that away from pika...
Someone send me a friend request on myspace.
Myspace.com/15453187
If u do send a request, send a message also so I'll know who you are.
Why am I still playing this game...?
*turns on wii*
2001-2001...lol
Owned indeed.
Now three cheers for online tailspikes!!!
Hopefully...
They better not take that away from pika...
Someone send me a friend request on myspace.
Myspace.com/15453187
If u do send a request, send a message also so I'll know who you are.
Why am I still playing this game...?
*turns on wii*
Anther
Smash Champion
So umm.. Link's up-bing over the ledge, as I'm quick attacking up and down through his sword, and I'm like Holy **** pikachu's invincible in the middle of quick attack??