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Guide Pika's Matchups

INSANE CARZY GUY

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Most marths can abuse their overly good range how do you go about getting around that? What's so bad about m2? I would like to know what waaaaaaaaayy I can begin to plan the perfect anti m2 stra.
 

tdk_Samurai

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Kind of disagree
I can easily raep a skilled marth without a ton of trouble
Skilled Mewtwo users however *shudders*
you gotta think about it at high levels of play though, not saying your bad, but let me link some of the best pikas fighting the best marths

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvxjEEzu0Cw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1l36lPDYc&feature=related
****s painfull to watch, just some dudes abusing their range, and taking advantage of pika's lack of range, at higher level play, spacing is so important, marth just completely outspaces pika.


I would link some of the best pikas fighting some of the best mewtwos, but the only vid I found of a good mewtwo was like older than those. But basically mewtwo just isn't good, no disrespect to taj or vman but I just don't see mewtwos placing well at national tourneys any time soon.

also, chad wtf, I could not find a match of you vs Iori's Mu2
 

Pika Mode

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To me i have found that pikachu is pretty good against falcon since all falcons i have played always fastfall on FD when recovering and thats when i can u-air him into another u-air gimp or u-smash.
 

-Chad-

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1l36lPDYc&feature=related
****s painfull to watch, just some dudes abusing their range, and taking advantage of pika's lack of range, at higher level play, spacing is so important, marth just completely outspaces pika.


also, chad wtf, I could not find a match of you vs Iori's Mu2
aaaaahhh that match...B-Ryan.... *shudders and sits in a corner rocking back and forth*

At least I'm much better at that matchup now...

I never really played Iori's M2 much, kinda like in the same sense he never played my Pika a lot. Heh we usually tried to play chars that we might see in a tournament :p
 

DerfMidWest

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N64 said:
Pichu: One of the few characters Pika has a range advantage on, so take advantage of it. He's light, so he's nice usmash bait. Also, your jolts are spammable, his aren't. Try to stay close enough to hit him with usmash/tilts, but not quite close enough for his usmash, because his usmash->thunder can still kill you at mid-high percents. When recovering against him, try to quick attack over him if he's waiting by the edge(to avoid his fsmash), and sweetspot if you can get to the edge before him. If you do get hit by his fsmash, try to smash DI away and up out of it.
uh just wanted to comment a bit on this (its not the reason i was in this thread, but I can't see pichu and not comment on it :p ), but most of you probably don't care since you're never going to play this matchup.... also sorry if somebody else (namely ICG) posted something similar, I didn't read the whole thread :\

Camping with jolts is dumb... he's going to jolt you back... if they're playing pichu, they aren't going to be caring too much about self damage... and jolts only take 1%. His jolts, like yours, can be used to provide an opening to approach, so your bigger range isn't going to do a hell of allot there. Its harder for you to combo pichu than it is for him to combo you... so don't count on big combos or anything to get percent.

what you should do: tech chase at low percent, downthrow -> usmash at mid/high percent

what you shouldn't do: rely on your bigger range, pichu is used to being outranged, its why we has teh approaching tricks. learn to punish perfect agility stuffs and watch for shffl'd nairs. recovery the same way... just because you're above him doesn't mean he can't hit you, his thunder can be used to combo. avoid getting grabbed, his grab range is twice as big and he also has a dthrow -> usmash on you. also lots of grab combos and such. your uair spiking is kinda useless since it'll send him down not that far and his horizontal recovery is pretty beast.

remember: Pichu is like a mini Pika except he's faster and has less lag and a sexy agility. He's good at your good stages and bad at your bad stages. its also going to be harder to kill him off the stage because his horizontal recovery is sexy and him vertical is pree good. Counterpick at FD, cuz allot of pichu's like their platforms cuz of agility stuffs. also dsmash allot because that annoys pichu. also don't jolt too much because pichu can kind of run under them... and he has jolts too...

idk if i'd call it a "very easy" matchup... because its like pika/pika matchup.. but with less range and killing power...

and I wasn't saying Pichu was better than Pika at all btw, just bored and talking about the matchup a little more. now you can all fight Pichu better and won't camp with jolt or something stupid like that to try to win ^^

sorry if it seems ranty, It isn't organized at all.. its more stream of consciousness xD
 

N64

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This list is ollllld. Probably should be removed from stickies. These days I think marth/pika is pretty even, perhaps even slight advantage pika yeah.
 

Nair

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This list is ollllld. Probably should be removed from stickies. These days I think marth/pika is pretty even, perhaps even slight advantage pika yeah.
Would it be possible for you to make an updated match-up thing? Because, you know I'm relatively new, but I'm not new to Pika. I'd love to see an updated one if you have the time!

What would be cooler, is if you could compile a list of techs for pikachu in a video, of things to do vs. certain types or match-ups.

"How To Play Pikachu: Vs. Floaties"
"How To Play Pikachu: Vs. Spacies"

or each specific match-up

"How To Play Pikachu: Vs. Marth"
"How To Play Pikachu: Vs. Peach"
"How To Play Pikachu: Vs. Sheik (Don't, but if you do...)"

So that players like myself can get an idea on what to do vs. certain enemies. That would be really nice, though I understand videos can take much longer. However, I feel the visual representation would help a lot. Granted, so does practice.

Just wondering! Thanks! This guide has been pretty helpful so far! (Even though it's been outdated for years.)
 

N64

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Recently Chad and I did a 3ish hour cast on Pikachu as a sort of introduction-to-the-character thing. You can find it here.

http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4081228

Most of the video is spent going through pikachu's moveset and getting into what each of his moves are good for. We touch a little bit on "This is good against fastfallers because it can lead into..." and stuff like that, so it's a little bit of what you're requesting. What you specifically mentioned (matchup video guides) is something I actually thought about recently and, if I can convince Chad and we can think of a reasonable way to do it, might be doable. We'll see.

Until then you can check out the matchup sections of my guide, if you haven't already. http://smashboards.com/threads/pikachu-guide-2011.312544/
It's incomplete, but I've started working on it again and will probably help a bit.
 

Nair

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Recently Chad and I did a 3ish hour cast on Pikachu as a sort of introduction-to-the-character thing. You can find it here.

http://www.twitch.tv/pikachad/c/4081228

Most of the video is spent going through pikachu's moveset and getting into what each of his moves are good for. We touch a little bit on "This is good against fastfallers because it can lead into..." and stuff like that, so it's a little bit of what you're requesting. What you specifically mentioned (matchup video guides) is something I actually thought about recently and, if I can convince Chad and we can think of a reasonable way to do it, might be doable. We'll see.

Until then you can check out the matchup sections of my guide, if you haven't already. http://smashboards.com/threads/pikachu-guide-2011.312544/
It's incomplete, but I've started working on it again and will probably help a bit.
Thank you very much! I'll look into it and forward to your videos should they come out! :D
 

Boondocker

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How does Pika do against YL? I cant see it being good although Im sure Pika has a trick or 2 up his sleeve. YL has better projectiles, similar speed, is hard to edgeguard, and a disjointed hitbox.
 

Teczer0

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I don't see why it would be bad?

Pika seems more than fast enough to keep up, his nair should beat his boomerang (I know it does vs Link) and once you get things started YL probably has a hard time getting Pika off of him.
 

N64

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pika does ok imo. YL's projectile game is annoying, but as tec0 mentioned it's not too tough for pika to keep up. The neutral game is kind of tough, but use your speed to bob and weave through projectiles, or shield if need be. Once you're close, all he really has that's safe is nair, so he either mashes that out or puts out something risky (like dair) to try to catch you. Just don't reach too far when chasing him, YL has some quick combos that do decent damage and reset you back to the neutral game, and you're good.

Young link isn't actually too tough to edgeguard. If you chase him offstage, there's not really much he can do. Jump out at him. If he doesn't react, any aerial kills him. If he jumps, uair spike. If he fades back or fastfalls to avoid you, upB back to the ledge and ledgehog his upB, or just fall back and nair his hookshot attempt, and then ledgehog his upB.
 

N64

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Yeah, the fox/pika comparison gets made a lot, it's a pretty natural comparison. In the matchup itself, Fox generally has the advantage on stage and pika has the advantage off stage. Pika can punish fox pretty hard, but of course you have to recognize and respect when he can get out of the combo/pressure. Respect his neutral game too.

Just, i dunno, watch Axe a lot heh. Pika has to bully Fox, which is much much easier said than done. Axe does it well to almost every fox. You're allllmost playing Fox's game, and you have to make him think you're just playing his game, when really you're looking for the opportunity to turn it in to the Ohnodon'tendupoffstage game. If that makes sense.

It's tough. It gets easier as you get more comfortable punishing Fox, and recognizing when/how you can put him in a bad situation.
 

herbmaster%

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UGH! i just made a post about pika/fox on the "ask anything" thread and i come here and ^^ >:|
 

The Jets

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After fighting the good fight with pikachu for a while now, I've come to a few thoughts about matchups.

I think pika's hardest match ups, in the current meta, in order would be:

1. IC's - this kind of goes without saying
Hard to approach, requires very campy and safe play to hopefully split up with a Uair or something.

2. Peach - Armada makes it look impossible. Axe at Sandstorm could only get like 1 or 2, maybe 3 hit combos on armada safely. It required winning the neutral game a lot more times than armada had to. Fsmash and Usmash seem to be the only kill moves maybe a high percent dair nair or bair too. Seems hard to edgeguard because peach can comfortably stay floating away from the stage.

3. Falco - insane punishes from falco. If you saw the weekly Westballz played axe in, he was zero to deathing axe on FD with double jump pillar combos. Seemed like some new technology he figured out. Also falco's lasers are a tough tool to get around in neutral and they make falco's approach quite good. Also at a lot of percents it seems falco can CC shine and start wrecking pika. And spacies are getting harder to gimp for axe because of recovery mix ups and they know a lot of his tricks

4. Puff - Puff is hard to combo and get in on because of puff's aerials in neutral. Hard to edgeguard too.

5. Fox - a better version of pikachu.

I think sheik is 6, other than CG and some easy punishes, sheik seems very doable. You have speed on her and CC, also forcing her on stage on recovery and getting the upsmash or strong aerial is quite effective. Axe has been doing really well against sheiks recently.

These are just my thoughts. Got lazy towards the end of the post because I should start studying for finals ha. Tell me what you think. Agree, disagree, MU pointers or anything like that.
 

Fakes

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I feel like the hardest part about the Peach MU is that she is floaty and hard to combo, also that gimps aren't as easy to get as they are against most high tiers because her up-b is so disjointed that standing anywhere near the ledge isn't safe and chasing her off for an uair can just be broken out of by an early up b from her. It's not impossible, but if the Peach is playing perfectly it won't happen. lets not forget that Armada's Peach is on another tier from any other peach main right now and I'd argue MacD being the next best. Pretty sure the last time Axe played Pika, and not YL, against MacD was TBH4 and he played that MU super well.

What makes you feel like Falco has a harder punish game than Fox? I mean, lasers are so damn annoying, but I still feel like spacies are where Pika can really start doing pikachu things. I'm no Pikachu main, but from watching you play at MOAL and Axe play in big tournaments it seems like that's where Pikachu can be the most aggressive.
 

herbmaster%

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I rewatched that macD BH4 set a week or two ago. he got more than one nair>upair>dair off of him. I don't see that dair get combo'd into often.
 

soju

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Spacies will always be a somewhat even matchup, usually the more experienced will win.

ICs is somewhat doable, you're great at separating them, it's easy to gimp nana, and you're faster.

Peach is tough but as long as you don't trade hits you can survive, and you shouldn't use armada as an example he has a weird I know this game style not many people have.

With puff you just need to know that you have the strongest uncharged usmash in the game that will trade with anything that isn't bair. And most puffs are undisciplined so you will see those opportunities.

If you want sheik explanation just look how long it took before axe took a set off m2k that's the matchup.

A good reason to use pika is for that marth matchup tho :)
 

N64

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ICs
Peach
Puff
Sheik
Spacies
The Rest

Is my list. Pretty much for everything people have pointed out so far. Peach and puff you haaaave to maintain a lead, because it's so rare that you'll actually get an opportunity for a damaging combo, it will be a lot of single hits or short chains, and the rest is Peach keeping you out (which hurts). Puff is the same, except she doesn't hurt quite as much (rest setups excluded, of course) and doesn't have a projectile. Sheik is more doable yes, but she still is quite difficult. She doesn't even need the CG, getting a grab will still result in plenty of damage, and has plenty of tools to fight you in the air and somewhat safely keep you out. Spacies are alright because you can win from any position, but you can also lose from any position. Both characters can have shutout stocks in the matchup, but spacies still have more tools. Hard but doable.

There are still unfavorable matchups in The Rest imo, but this is my short list. I might even put spacies below some other characters (but not many), but that may just be my personal bias.
 

Psyant

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Yeah, I agree with that list's ordering. I don't actually mind Peach and Puff that much, but a Peach of Armada's level and consistency does seem incredibly difficult for Pikachu.

ICs is really, really hard too. At least for me it's the only one I'm considering a secondary for. But Axe has shown it's doable if you have the MU experience.

Besides the ones you listed the only other character I really dislike fighting is Luigi. Eugh.
 

The Jets

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Yeah Luigi is weird. I played against some Luigi when I was in Pittsburgh during the school year. I don't feel comfortable going of stage to gimp or interrupt their recovery, and it seems like only aerials near the edge or a back throw can get them off stage which makes setting up those gimps hard too
 

Psyant

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We can gimp him when he's off stage alright (though it is awkward getting used to his recovery style at first), but I'd really like some advice as to how to play against him on stage. It feels awful to me and I really don't enjoy it.

The main thing I struggle with is that at low to mid %s, I find it difficult to hit Luigi without giving him a chance to hit me back right away, either with one of his quick aerials or his CC Dsmash. Because of that I play super careful, using a lot of spaced Dtilt and some jolts when he's not close, and Usmash/Grab + Uthrow to juggles if he leaves himself open for it, but it takes a long time to build up damage this way and if I make a small mistake he usually unloads a truckload of damage on me.

I also find it challenging to dashdance effectively against him because of the sudden bursts of speed he can put out with his wavedash, which I have difficulty reacting to in time. But that might just be me being slow or inexperienced with his movement.

I'm sure I just need more practice at the MU, but overall I just feel like I have to play so, so careful against him and it only takes a few small mistakes to throw away any lead I've gained. Has anyone got any advice as to effective ways to fight him on stage?
 
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Synnett

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Have any of you ever played against a good Link? My friend spam is boomerang, and when I get close he use his nair. I barely can do anything. I mean, he's very good with it.
 

NightmareSnake

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Samus seems like a pretty ridiculous matchup also imo. She has so many ways to keep you out it's ridiculous.
 
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