Pikachu

[Sapphire Dragon]

No problem! Pika too good.

I doubt they'll complain, I'll be in a group of competitive players and honestly I'm not as good as anyone in my scene. I just don't get practice so I get limited improvement.

I feel bad for everyone who's going Saturday though... have a feeling there's going to be a ton of little kids. -_-

Depending on how many people show up I may only get one to four matches to test all this, so I'm going to reorder it for when I go there so I can test some things with more precedence than others.

EDIT: FINAL LIST HERE

Please let me know within 5 hours from the time of this edit (mid-bottom right of this post) if you want me to change it. Otherwise, I look forward to testing Pika!

Spoiler

Tell Sudai to test Villager's up B (balloon) mechanic

1. Thunder mechanics; including whether Pika still floats if hit in air, and if b-reversing is still present

2. Pikachu's new jab (headbutt) finisher move

3. Usmash strength (Brawl: will kill Fox at 107% on FD; will kill Pika at 108% on FD)
Fsmash (sweetspotted): (Fox@FD 88%, Pika@FD 87%)

4. Skull bash recovery

5. check QAC

compare fair hitboxes to be better and tjolt speed to be faster than Brawl

trying QAC incorrectly may get you lag.

try followups on throws

check bair copter and dsmash DI potential with Sudai.

check SHFF aerials and ledge invincibility mechanics

check b-turned jolts

try trapping with b-reversed thunder and jolt since jolt looks faster? laser locking?

 

[Choice Scarf]

Sounds good!

Observations from Tourney:

• Fair looks similar to PM as its multi-hit with good knockback on the last hit, would also benefit from lack of SDI. It also seems to autocancel before the last hit is out, so maybe SHFF Fair can work
  
• B-turnaround Thunderjolt looks confirmed, angle of jolt looks the same.
• Tip of Usmash sends opponent upwards vertically, behind Pika still has its weak hitboxes didn't kill Villager at 85% but still sent him up RUL high at 62%. Maybe stage ceiling is high.
  
• Quick Attack sweetspots ledge like normal, at least from away from the stage, with knockback at end?
• Get up attack looks unchanged, didn't hit anyone so can't really confirm much
• Uair can be used twice in one jump, causes 5% damage. Early hitbox of Uair does send opponents up, good knockback? Uair has late hitbox that sends opponent diagonally up and backwards, but opponent did not go far even at high percent. Hits that looked like it sent opponents diagonally down were applied on ground/platforms. Landing lag is noticeable.
  
• Fsmash (15% damage?) can kill Villager close at 102%
• Dash attack cannot go off ledges, but it may have an electric effect (no confidence in that, need clearer vid)
• D-tilt to U-tilt looks very fast (D-tilt hits a soccer ball, so maybe this is a combo?)
• Dair and Bair seem to have considerable landing lag
• Dair still has grounded hitbox
  
• Brawl Nair, at least aesthetically, where full hop Nair seems to end the Nair just before hitting the ground (almost as if landing lag is actually very short?)
• Bair trapped two opponents, seems to cause 8% damage if all parts hit. Last hit of bair also seems to have good knockback on outside of Pika's foot (so if not trapped?)
• Hitbox of Dsmash above Pikachu sent opponent diagonally up
• Thunder hitting and Thunder missing Pikachu have different animations, bolt comes out faster, still starts offscreen
  
• Pummel came out fast. F-throw also looks like it can be acted out of quickly enough, though opponent was at 100+%
• All electric moves in general seem to have a different electric sound effect on hit confirm
  
• And Volt Tackle looks like it still sucks. As in hard to control and still not killing at high percent by just ramming into people

Fair, Usmash, Fsmash, and Jolt seemed to be used the most, didn't see jab, f-tilt, most of the throws, or skull bash at all.
Anything I miss?

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Lol, you posted and I edited at the same time XD I'll nitpick through a few things you said, but what I can do is limited since I might get one to four matches at best.

From all you put I will add somewhere in notes:

Focus on jab, ftilt, skull bash, ALL throws

does dash attack have electric damage

experiment with new 2uair per jump

try dtilt to utilt combo

I didn't actually watch the vid yet but I probably should have. XD I'll watch it after I come back. If anyone else plays Pika while I'm there too I'll take notes of their play.

So, again, FINAL LIST unless changes should be made:

Spoiler

Tell Sudai to test Villager's up B (balloon) mechanic

1. Thunder mechanics; including whether Pika still floats if hit in air, and if reversing is still present

2. Pikachu's new jab (headbutt) finisher move

3. Usmash strength (Brawl: will kill Fox at 107% on FD; will kill Pika at 108% on FD) Fsmash (sweetspotted): (Fox@FD 88%, Pika@FD 87%)

4. Skull bash recovery

5. check QAC

Focus on jab, ftilt, skull bash, ALL throws

try dtilt to utilt combo

compare tjolt speed to be faster than Brawl

does dash attack have electric damage

trying QAC incorrectly may get you lag.

try followups on throws

check SHFF aerials and ledge invincibility mechanics

try trapping with b-reversed thunder and jolt since jolt looks faster? laser locking?

I took out the DI testing stuff because multiple people tested DI mechanics in other ways and pretty much confirmed there is negligible, if any at all, DI to be had.

Edit: Took out 2uair per jump. This is already in Brawl and if you do it right on Temple you can get up to 5 per jump. Probably more if you jump off to the right on the right side of temple

 

[Choice Scarf]

More stuff, courtesy of Raykz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0RWYIUGimc

• Thunder goes through light fixture on Punch-Out stage, bolt still has high start point but looks shorter. It looks like it is quicker in general, especially with less start up lag. Weird that it sent Little Mac up diagonally for the sudden death KO when we we promised it would be a meteor, but that could have also been the grounded hitbox from Pikachu or an Usmash
  
• Skull Bash seems to go exactly horizontal, with weak knockback uncharged, strong if charged (as expected)
• Volt Tackle actually looks controllable here, tapping A for bursts are still in and possibly good enough for kills now
• Pika's victory screen is awesome

Second match of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3-Ydt774YI

• D-smash still a multi hit move, though that and F-smash seem laggier when charged (might be universal though)
• QA distance looks unchanged, but should be double checked, landing lag looks somewhat faster that Melee's
• Nair landing lag almost as much as Dair/Bair
  
• Volt Tackle again controllable, seems faster with its burst having a larger hitbox? I'll rescind my previous statements and say its usable now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Ij2YPmx4g

• F-tilt looks quick, not sure about range though, but might be safer to use
• @0:25, 0:45, 1:25: QAC? Much less end lag than before
• B-throw shown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOYyCYVQiEA

• Thunder looks like an auto combo -> bolt meteors to Pika's body, which then hits and sends opponent diagonally upward. I'm okay with this
• Skull Bash from one end of stage, flew across stage at full charge, and sweetspoted other edge
• Screen KO animation @1:40
• F-smash looking like Pika's primary kill move (kills Kirby at 104% near side)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWkHB4tImg

• Skull Bash still easily interruptible at full charge
• Finally see cloud of Thunder on Coliseum

First match of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgwD49yXjys

• Based Green Headband confirmed
• Dash attack has good knockback on Zelda at mid %, which could mean anything

 

[SmashShadow]

53:22 Pikachu's quick attack has knockback.

 

[Minato Arisato]

I've been hearing stuff about Pikachu's Quick Attack being able to change direction up to three times...

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

So, overall impressions.

I got to play two Wii U matches with people and played against a CPU on 3DS.

Sadly, the hype was real and I totally forgot to test grabs and didn't get the chance to later.

I'll start with the bad things first, to get them out of the way.

At least on the 3DS, a jolt in the air lower than a full jump above the ground will net you *insane* amounts of landing lag. Like... I'd say it rivals QAing into the ground in Melee. Probably a bit less than that, but still comparable to say the least.

Overall the mechanics feel like Melee's gravity, a little of Brawl's floaty, and a little bit of squishiness/fluidity in it all. A lot of times I didn't realize there was lag compared to movement in Brawl because the characters are animated in so much more detail through each frame you look(feel) like you're actually still moving.

Now, for the good news:

QAC is back. Albeit, slightly slower when you jump out of it, but still there. Anyone talking about lag from QAing into the ground is not doing it right and getting bopped by a laggy punishment. lrn2tech

Skull bash has been buffed. It seems better than Brawl's and also features electric sparks around you so they do get hit with electricity from this move now. Not unlike Fair turned into a rocket

Thunder: Pika still floats if hit in midair. Maybe even more than Brawl. Awesome setups result. From how I was able to move during thunder moves I firmly believe b-reversed thunder is still possible though I wasn't able to pull it off.

Fair is almost identical to PM. Rejoice.jpg

Melee dtilt has made a comeback. Can combo into itself again as it's very fast and almost the exact same animation.

Utilt's hitboxes seem to be higher and wider.

SHFF aerials are back

All taunts are identical to Brawl, though the one from up arrow has colorful electricity surround him instead of just white (though this could've just been the stage we were on)

Whoever's going to the Saturday one should be a hero and focus on grabs only. As for me, I can only go to one, and this was it. It was an awesome time. :D I feel like Pikachu could easily be mid A to high B tier in this game, by like a lot.

 

[Pikabunz]

I couldn't get qac to work, but I didn't spend much time on it. You can b-reverse thunder though.

 

[Choice Scarf]

This is all great news!

More videos I found from GameXplain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knzy8DjwB5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41bCiRWB1z4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M92birk1O8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-08EUoFqs10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbr49wjLD1Q

The 4th vid particularly features smart casual play, and the fifth features two Pika players! Some last couple of things from the vids and apparent updates from reddit:

• Thunder goes through platforms, probably a bug
• Dash Attack confirmed for more knockback, so maybe viable?
• Costumes are the same as Brawl (wishing for more but we'll see)
• Pika apparently has a jab lock (probably what the laser lock thing earlier was referring to)

I think we have enough material to theory craft strategies, but for now I'm pretty hyped that Sm4sh Pikachu is looking pretty great!

 

[Blackrider213]

The thunder going through platforms is definitely a bug. It can go through the top platform of Battlefield, but none of the side platforms.

Also, Pikachu's side smash has been slightly aesthetically tweaked. Not like that's really important anyway, but just a little interesting.

 

[Cassio]

I couldn't tell if it was the game or Pikachu but he seemed overall faster in movement.

I tried quite a bit too QAC but couldn't. I could've done it wrong though. Also you could cancel it on platform ledges like before. His nair has more range and is a lot stronger. Couldn't short hop autocancel dair. Fair had some landing lag but still too hard to tell if it'd combo. All his attacks mostly had the same range, maybe a small range buff on usmash.

Pikas throws are all the same but throw the opponents a decent amount further. Almost no SDI so all of pikas multhit moves are broken, but I have a feeling they'll put in more sometime.

Also I hit with the spike thunder. It was the only thunder I hit on a non grounded opponent. It all happens super fast, the thunder comes out fast, they shoot down super fast, as fast as the thunder, then they get hit by thunder 2 and fly away.

Also thunder went thought platforms in brawl too if it happened high enough like hyrule temple. It might not be a glitch.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I couldn't get qac to work, but I didn't spend much time on it. You can b-reverse thunder though.

I tried quite a bit too QAC but couldn't. I could've done it wrong though.

I'm starting to see a lot of really talented players say they couldn't do QAC, but I remember definitely being able to pull it off once. However, if I hadn't played on the 3DS training room stage to test out Pika's mechanics beforehand, I don't know if I would have been able to either.

Were you able to play in a 3DS training room? Or did your Best Buy have only the Wii U version?

 

[Oniric Spriter]

Gotta love this Pikachu buffs. I do love the speed of this game.

 

[PF9]

Pikachu is going to be my main as it always has, one song I like to listen to while using him is Thunderstruck by AC/DC

 

[Pikabunz]

Couldn't short hop autocancel dair.

You can sh autocancel dair.

I'm starting to see a lot of really talented players say they couldn't do QAC, but I remember definitely being able to pull it off once. However, if I hadn't played on the 3DS training room stage to test out Pika's mechanics beforehand, I don't know if I would have been able to either.

Were you able to play in a 3DS training room? Or did your Best Buy have only the Wii U version?

I only got to play 1 game on the wiiu. I'll try to qac again on Saturday.

 

[Choice Scarf]

More videos:

Treehouse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhbHMzfribo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujhpkfTZXgY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW3-7bdn5as (Ken vs. Milktea)

VGBC Fest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmfPtW1kDOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL265E3Tdxw

Edit: Clash Tournaments 1v1s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBphKbeMXws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjbNBMOuNvE

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Yay, it's great to see one of my mains get buffed.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I played pikachu today too i could not get qac to work. Possibly a timing issue in my part.

Loving what they did to fair!

Thunder has a nice and crunchy sound and effects to it. I possibly found a bug where rosalina canceled it with a move. But i couldnt tell because there was a platform close to where i was casting.


The button layout was TERRIBLE!!! So if yall are having problems performing moves dont push it too hard. Probably have to wait til 3ds wiiu builds get released so we can have better controller ui/support.


Honestly im pretty certain everyone who played the demo had a hard time pulling off any techy stuff because the controller ui was very bad. By the way, they probably wont let us play another demo till release. Even if they did, controller ui is the last thing that gets tweaked heavily before release so...yeap.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Pikachu was alfeady a good character. Its crazy and awesome their buffing him so much.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Theres an old saying my boyfriebd always told me in regards to his game street fighter---

"It is better to buff all the characters and rather then nerf some characters."

 

[E-ColeWorld]

QAC is confirmed in SSB4!! (Atleast in the demo) i started a thread and posted a video of me doing QAC at BestBuy

http://smashboards.com/threads/qac-is-back.358441/ Heres the thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HZRwWN7lHc Heres the proof of QAC

 

[Moon Monkey]

(So I guess you can Quick attack cancel despite what they say in the vid)

 

[Choice Scarf]

(So I guess you can Quick attack cancel despite what they say in the vid)

The timing must really be different then huh? Is it at a later frame probably?

Also is anyone else getting the vibe that Thunder is glitchy? Sometimes it spikes and sometimes it doesn't, and it doesn't look like the cloud hitbox matters

 

[Pikabunz]

(So I guess you can Quick attack cancel despite what they say in the vid)

Some differences I've noticed from Brawl:
- Dtilt damage 7 > 6
- Thunder 10 > 8
- Air Jolt 9 > 6
- Dash attack 7 > 6, Now has an initial hitbox, like nair, that does 10 damage
- Full charge sb 25 > 22

- Thunder comes down a lot faster and T2 hits when you spike with the cloud.
- Dash grab looks like it has less lag.
- It seems like you can still follow up after dthrow.

Overall the new Pikachu plays just like Brawl Pikachu, which is really good.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Is Smash 4 Pika closest to Melee, Brawl, or 64 Pika? Or is he a completely different character altogether? If not, then I wanna practice him in whichever game to prepare for December (to get a rough idea).

 

[Pikabunz]

He's closest to Brawl.

 

[Neo Zero]

His hat actually slides off a bit. That's awesome

 

[Choice Scarf]

It's funny how it actually starts sliding off before Pikachu does

 

[E-ColeWorld]

The timing must really be different then huh? Is it at a later frame probably?

Also is anyone else getting the vibe that Thunder is glitchy? Sometimes it spikes and sometimes it doesn't, and it doesn't look like the cloud hitbox matters

From what I remember, its a much faster frame than brawl. I also tried the brawl timing and failed so i decided to take a different approach on the 3ds. How I did it was hitting up on the control stick as soon as or possibly before pika hits ground.

Side note. qac is much more easily done on WiiU Version compared to the 3ds version...any other questions???

 

[VioletSmashfan]

His hat actually slides off a bit. That's awesome

He looks just as cute when smacking the screen face 1st (although he'll probably block the screen if he was in giant form).

 

[Soul.]

From what I remember, its a much faster frame than brawl. I also tried the brawl timing and failed so i decided to take a different approach on the 3ds. How I did it was hitting up on the control stick as soon as or possibly before pika hits ground.

Side note. qac is much more easily done on WiiU Version compared to the 3ds version...any other questions???

Does that mean QAC'ing is on the 3DS version too? If so, that's a good thing for Pikachu mains on the 3DS.

 

[E-ColeWorld]

Does that mean QAC'ing is on the 3DS version too? If so, that's a good thing for Pikachu mains on the 3DS.

Yea it is/was in the demo version but my friend didnt record me playing the 3ds version. But let me be clear that the demo is what its called. So QAC still is possible to get taken out on the finalized copy

 

[Soul.]

Yea it is/was in the demo version but my friend didnt record me playing the 3ds version. But let me be clear that the demo is what its called. So QAC still is possible to get taken out on the finalized copy

I see. That's okay. I know it was on the demo, and while it might get taken out, I really don't see them doing that as the 3DS version is almost complete. Thanks for replying though.

 

[E-ColeWorld]

I see. That's okay. I know it was on the demo, and while it might get taken out, I really don't see them doing that as the 3DS version is almost complete. Thanks for replying though.

No problem bro. anything to help a smash player...btw which smash do you play

 

[Soul.]

No problem bro. anything to help a smash player...btw which smash do you play

All of them. Right now, I'm waiting for Smash 3DS so I can try out Pikachu, as well as check if QAC'ing is still possible in the final version. I'm sure it'll be as good as it was in Brawl. You?

 

[E-ColeWorld]

i mainly play brawl, but starting to play PM because Smash4 is going to be faster than brawl

 

[Soul.]

i mainly play brawl, but starting to play PM because Smash4 is going to be faster than brawl

I see. While some think Smash 4 might be like Brawl, it's going to be its own game. Brawl is slower, I agree, but Smash 4 is in between Melee and Brawl. Are you gonna play on Smash 3DS, Wii U, or both?

 

[E-ColeWorld]

im doing both...you?

 

[Soul.]

im doing both...you?

Both, I suppose. I think I'll be playing more on Smash 3DS. It's not like I hate Smash Wii U, it'll be a good game. We'll see, though.

 

[E-ColeWorld]

Both, I suppose. I think I'll be playing more on Smash 3DS. It's not like I hate Smash Wii U, it'll be a good game. We'll see, though.

well i already paid my copies off, but yea im going to be on the 3ds a lot cause my team travel a lot