Persona 4 Arena Ultimax: Out in NA, It's Time You Burn That Dread

[LivewiresXe]

Chie is dumb.

That is all.

#salt

If by dumb, you mean "awesome". And I'd have been online for any room that existed/will exist earlier except I've been out in the city checking out the BB/P4A/GG/SG/otherstuff scene there and getting some practice that way (some good anti-Bang and anti-Kanji stuff comes to mind). That, and I missed a turn when I left and just got home 15 minutes ago. It's a 45 minute drive...and I left at 10:30.


Late edit: And yes, I blocked, lol.

 

[Minato]

Just got home, but I need to get dinner first. I'm not expecting anyone to show up, but I'll be on regardless for training mode at least.

 

[Lythium]

I remember at SCR, once the Labrys player blocked one 5A, they were like, welp, Chie won. lol

That is basically my life right now. ;-;

If by dumb, you mean "awesome".

Nope, dumb. Dumb, I say!

...

I'm actually getting kind of frustrated with this game. Not in a "I'm gonna quit FGs" way, but more of a "how could you not see how this would be a problem when designing the game?" way. I really, really like this game, but I don't think it's as balanced as people want to believe. And while I do think that the entire cast is viable, there is some extraordinarily dumb stuff thrown in there, especially when it comes to match-ups (and I don't even have to play the worst of them).

And then part of me is frustrated by my own shortcomings as a player, but that's a whole other thing to get into. Sorry about the rant, I just had to put that out there.

orz

 

[LivewiresXe]

That is basically my life right now. ;-;



Nope, dumb. Dumb, I say!

...

I'm actually getting kind of frustrated with this game. Not in a "I'm gonna quit FGs" way, but more of a "how could you not see how this would be a problem when designing the game?" way. I really, really like this game, but I don't think it's as balanced as people want to believe. And while I do think that the entire cast is viable, there is some extraordinarily dumb stuff thrown in there, especially when it comes to match-ups (and I don't even have to play the worst of them).

And then part of me is frustrated by my own shortcomings as a player, but that's a whole other thing to get into. Sorry about the rant, I just had to put that out there.

orz

There's certainly a couple of things that make you scratch your head in this game when you first look at them and I can totally understand if you're feeling a little disheartened at the moment, Lythium. I've gone through similar things myself, at a point when I took a 2.something month break from the game. Things such as the hitbox for Mitsuru's DP, some of the tricks and things that Teddie and Aigis can do, Chie's pressure when in the right hands, and Yosuke's speed are all things that can sometimes get people feeling a bit off or frustrated. There's even some instances of things that good Elizabeth players can do.

However, with that being said, and as silly as it may sound, being frustrated and identifying that some things are difficult shows that you care and that you want to improve and get better. I know, it may seem silly coming from someone that has a lot of growing as a player to do myself, but I think a lot of people here have gone through similar things with some games at one point in time. I think you might be starting to get a bit tough on yourself, because to me your comments don't scream "screw this game! I'm NEVER playing this piece of crap again!", but they give me the impression you want to figure out and learn how to deal with some things, but just aren't quite sure how to do it just yet.

Just remember, we're here for ya. You gots this.

 

[Zankoku]

Sorry for being absent on PSN as of late. I've been traveling between places a bunch, and among other things trying to get some new people over here into the game. I will be more available for netplay starting next week, or really late night tonight, if you're into insomnia.

 

[Crusayer]

What should we call you by Aisight?!

 

[LivewiresXe]

What should we call you by Aisight?!

I say we just call him Ninjor, personally.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I just call him Ankoku, lol.

 

[LivewiresXe]

So was doing some matches tonight. I still keep mindf---ing myself by allowing myself to get angry over Liz's DP, admittedly. And there was this one Yosuke I kept fighting that was mad disrespectful. He'd just stop and stand still throwing 2As out when he played Akihiko or 5As out when he was Yosuke, which really served no purpose other than to piss me off since I could (and did) win the rounds by beating out his stuff. That being said though, he'd get the lead as Yosuke and just fly all over the place running away. So...when you come across a Yosuke that is running away and naturally, if you try chasing after you won't catch...what exactly do you do exactly as time is sometimes not your side?

Note: I'm aware that getting pissed off and losing my focus isn't the thing to do, I just haven't experienced much in the way of people running away from me in matches on P4A before so wasn't sure on handling it.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Liz's DP is gonna get you if you just blindly run at her. Its hella slow as it is, so have the presence of mind to see what you are doing. You have to play around with baiting it out and also maybe dodging. You can do some baiting shenanigans like jump right in front of them and instead of j.B, just jump back or up, just to be simple.

Can back dashing avoid it?

How are you playing against that Yosuke? Are you chasing him?

 

[LivewiresXe]

Well, I kind of try to let him come to me because I feel that if I rush in, being as fast as he is, he can punish reckless things. However, if he gets the life lead and flies around, I'll sometimes try to slow whittle it down with attacks that hit above me a little bit such as Chie's j.C or her j.8D, with the odd j.B if he happens to get close enough. My thought's that if I'm running around on the ground after him entirely, I'm just going to get frustrated, angry, and accomplish nothing aside from wasting time.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I don't know much Chie stuff, but if you don't do anything, you're just giving him the idea that he can keep doing it. Or he's got you downloaded, lol. You'll have to scare him. Do you get enough meter for Agneyastra >OMC> mixup?

 

[Crusayer]

Depending on the distance, you don't even need to OMC meteors for the mixup.

 

[Minato]

I like running away for 15 seconds or so as Yosuke. I don't do it often in our lobbies since I'm sure people would get pissed.
Anyways, you need to chase the Yosuke player down. If you're waiting to punish them, it won't happen against a good Yosuke.

Avoid going for anti airs since Yosuke can practically do anything to punish you for it. Go for j.Bs as Narukami.
Yosuke will beat your characters during the neutral game, but because of oki, it's in your favor.

What I'm trying to get at is, start doing oki for once.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Lol, I can do oki alright once I get into it, I just think I have a habit of trying to start it wrong in the wrong situations or wrong moves. Like, pretty sure Yosuke's whatever it is where he just quick jabs straight out with the Kunai beats j.B or 5B so naturally using those to try and start oki doesn't exactly work meaning I naturally should go for something to knock him back or down first.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

It doesn't beat Yu's j.B, Minato just said to use it, lol. The range is strong in that one, so use it to your advantage.

It's a good idea to look at the boards for BOTH Yu/Yosuke and Yosuke/Yu on DL. If you want some ideas.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Oh yeah, I kinda figure it wouldn't beat Yu's j.B, I was actually referring to Chie as I believe I'm slowly going towards her as a main since I'm at that weird point where while my fundamentals and stuff are better with Narukami, I feel I know more with Chie despite not being able to apply it. I was actually thinking of going to look at the hitboxes and frame data of some of Yosuke's moves.

 

[Teczer0]

Anyone wanna play like a random few right now?

 

[LivewiresXe]

Sorry, I'm kinda checked out mentally on games past 12:30 usually. Though if you want to sometime over the weekend, just hit me up. I'm pretty easy to get in touch with, so you know how to hit me up, etc.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Just focus on not dropping combos and fundamentals, LOL

No need to worry about the frames yet. Won't be much use to have the knowledge but not being able to act upon it.

 

[Minato]

Lol, I can do oki alright once I get into it, I just think I have a habit of trying to start it wrong in the wrong situations or wrong moves. Like, pretty sure Yosuke's whatever it is where he just quick jabs straight out with the Kunai beats j.B or 5B so naturally using those to try and start oki doesn't exactly work meaning I naturally should go for something to knock him back or down first.

...

Why would you think Yosuke's on the ground to 5A if I'm talking about catching runaway Yosuke with Narukami's j.B lol. This is when he's flying around. Also, why would he 5A anti air you if he has his 2B?

And in Chie's case, you can set up oki if you hit confirm from the air...

I was actually referring to Chie as I believe I'm slowly going towards her as a main since I'm at that weird point where while my fundamentals and stuff are better with Narukami, I feel I know more with Chie despite not being able to apply it.

I don't believe you.

 

[LivewiresXe]

...

Why would you think Yosuke's on the ground to 5A if I'm talking about catching runaway Yosuke with Narukami's j.B lol. This is when he's flying around. Also, why would he 5A anti air you if he has his 2B?

And in Chie's case, you can set up oki if you hit confirm from the air...

I don't believe you.

Umm....I was actually referring to Chie's j.B and at no point in that response was I honestly referring to Narukami, lol. Plus well, really, a bunch of what he did, didn't really make sense.

And don't believe me on what? Slow-switching to likely maining Chie, having better fundamentals with Narukami than Chie, that I think I know more with Chie than with Narukami, or all 3?

 

[Minato]

That's because I was giving advice for both Narukami and Chie against Yosuke in my first post.

And I don't believe you on the latter two things. Your Narukami and Chie have the same tendencies/style.
And I just feel like you really don't know Chie well enough, regardless of not being able to apply it.

 

[LivewiresXe]

That's true. However, I feel Chie is slightly more on air/damage/speed, and Narukami is more on ground/range/control, or something to that weird extent that somehow makes sense at 2:45am.

 

[Teczer0]

Forever free to AoA xD.

Oh well GGs Evan

 

[Sion]

ggs dude

gj on improving so much

 

[Teczer0]

I have to work on not getting scared.

That really made me do silly things thinking I had a blind read or something.

Oh well things to keep in mind i guess.

 

[Crusayer]

I don't think you'd be able to hold yourself back in pushing buttons Livewire.

Chie's all about the staggering and you neverrrrr stagger.

 

[Lythium]

He doesn't stagger when he plays Noel either, so I'm not sure he knows what staggering is? Though I'm pretty sure we have explained it before.

Also, Livewire, I feel like you're biting off more than you can chew. Why not just learn one character, and focus on Narukami or Chie for now? Considering that both of your characters are mostly at the same level, pick one. If you really want to improve, then having a sub is superfluous and just dividing your time. I mean, you don't have to, but you'll improve faster if you don't have to learn two characters (and start taking Minato's advice, but that's a different story).

 

[LivewiresXe]

Lol, I actually have been taking Minato's advice which is at least partly why I've been improving a bit lately. That being said, I feel I'm sort of using both at the moment because despite what I say sometimes making it seem that I'm sure, I'm not entirely certain on which one to stick with. Not going to argue on it being hard to hold back on pushing buttons but...as stupid as it sounds, I feel I'm not going to learn to lay off the buttons unless I let myself get in those situations and learn how to actually react properly the hard way.

Edit: And I know it's been a LONG time since this was a discussion, but doesn't staggering have something to do with stun? You know, like certain attacks will cause the opponent to get staggered and unable to do stuff for a short amount of time. Kinda like that one thing I seem to remember with Tager way back in the day.

 

[Minato]

You just really need to apply all the stuff we tell you. Less AoA combos and more oki would be great.
1/10 times I might see a sweep into 5D, but chances are it's timed wrong or there's no mixup. As for AoA's, I remember hearing you practice them, but you really need to mash the correct buttons. Too many times I see only 14 hits or OMC into j.C.

Also learn your AoA D/wall bounce combos too.

Edit: And I know it's been a LONG time since this was a discussion, but doesn't staggering have something to do with stun? You know, like certain attacks will cause the opponent to get staggered and unable to do stuff for a short amount of time. Kinda like that one thing I seem to remember with Tager way back in the day.

Stagger in this case means frame traps. So delaying your normals would be one.
That's why you'll see me delay 5B after 2B so they'll have enough frame to mash out a button but will end up getting CH'ed.

It loses to DP though, so you can't do it all the time. You shouldn't mashed DP all the time when I'm doing a blockstring on you since I'll be baiting them sometimes. And as Chie, she can attempt to block during each dash in on her 5A.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I need to stop the whole "holy crap, did it hit? what now? oh right, this! do I have space? oh crap, I dropped it" thing when I get counter hits, or actually have things go right. When you practice something enough and the situation you go for comes up, there really isn't a reason for me to be second guessing it. Still in no way, excuses panic A>B mashing turning into an AoA that I take 3k as a result of. I'm tempted to get into some wall-bounce AoA combos, but I'm trying to not bite off too much, though there's a big difference between "learning 1 to get a feel for how they work" and "feeling you have to learn ALL of them at once".

Thanks for clearing up the Stagger thing (though oddly with that definition, I feel I've sometimes done that before), though I kinda have a slight question mark with the "And as Chie, she can attempt to block during each dash in on her 5A." sentence. It kinda sounds like you're saying if you do dash 5A and it whiffs or gets blocked, that it recovers fast enough that you can block after, but I might have mis-read it.

 

[Minato]

It kinda sounds like you're saying if you do dash 5A and it whiffs or gets blocked, that it recovers fast enough that you can block after, but I might have mis-read it.

That can happen sometimes too, but not if they reversal DP. What I mean is, sometimes Chie will be farther away and there will be times when your dash was a little late after the 5A which could give your opponent time to mash. You'll be holding back before your 5A during this time if that makes sense, just in case if they do mash a DP.

The whole, your normal whiffs but you block their DP in time is mostly for safe jumps.

Also, having a lobby tonight probably.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I need to stop the whole "holy crap, did it hit? what now? oh right, this! do I have space? oh crap, I dropped it" thing when I get counter hits, or actually have things go right. When you practice something enough and the situation you go for comes up, there really isn't a reason for me to be second guessing it. Still in no way, excuses panic A>B mashing turning into an AoA that I take 3k as a result of. I'm tempted to get into some wall-bounce AoA combos, but I'm trying to not bite off too much, though there's a big difference between "learning 1 to get a feel for how they work" and "feeling you have to learn ALL of them at once".

Thanks for clearing up the Stagger thing (though oddly with that definition, I feel I've sometimes done that before), though I kinda have a slight question mark with the "And as Chie, she can attempt to block during each dash in on her 5A." sentence. It kinda sounds like you're saying if you do dash 5A and it whiffs or gets blocked, that it recovers fast enough that you can block after, but I might have mis-read it.

Well, if you land an AoA just focus on follow up. It's free damage unless burst, so learn one combo off of it. Are you having problems getting to the fatal? You can just keep mashing it until that short pause at 15? Hits and you can press C/D.

And we don't want you to learn all of them at once. That's just stupid. It's a slow process. Just keep practicing and applying. Everything will eventually become second nature, and you'll also stop questioning yourself like you do a lot now.

I'll be joining since the last of my midterms is today ;D

 

[Smooth Criminal]

FUNDAMENTALS.

Also, Minato, I'm coming for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Smooth Criminal

 

[LivewiresXe]

That can happen sometimes too, but not if they reversal DP. What I mean is, sometimes Chie will be farther away and there will be times when your dash was a little late after the 5A which could give your opponent time to mash. You'll be holding back before your 5A during this time if that makes sense, just in case if they do mash a DP.

The whole, your normal whiffs but you block their DP in time is mostly for safe jumps.

Also, having a lobby tonight probably.

Ohh, okay, that makes total sense. And I'll probably be on since well, massive snowstorm up here means I won't be going anywhere.

Apologies if I came across as saying that I thought you guys were suggesting I learn them all instead of just a couple. I actually was trying to say the opposite and that I recognized trying to learn everything was not beneficial. And yep, character familiarity is an important thing that can't be rushed. My problem with AoAs when I do them is moreso that I get ahead of myself and will forget to let the first set of hits finish before jumping after the C launcher, so it'll turn into it coming out as me trying to j.C while mashing AB, leading to OMC j.C, as Minato said. Just a matter of calming myself down and staying focused, that'll get less with time.


And lol Smooth. Yes, fundamentals as well.

 

[Teczer0]

Also, having a lobby tonight probably.

Don't lie to me with your Fire Emblem

:3

 

[sakuraZaKi]

If I had FE, I'd be playing that instead too, LOL

 

[LivewiresXe]

I feel the same way just....with Project X Zone.

 

[Minato]

FUNDAMENTALS.

Also, Minato, I'm coming for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Smooth Criminal

No. No you're not.

Don't lie to me with your Fire Emblem

:3

Who says I don't do other stuff when I pass in my lobbies? :3c