Persona 4 Arena Ultimax: Out in NA, It's Time You Burn That Dread

[LivewiresXe]

Don't worry, I plan on getting on as early as tonight. Granted, I won't be able to do any 2am lobbies and all that until like 2nd week of February, so I'll probably do like a 12:30-1am-ish curfew for stuff. I do kinda appreciate that though, as odd as it is since if I go on about wanting to give it a chance again and never at all come on or play in lobbies then it kinda looks just a wee bit bad.

 

[Zankoku]

Ottawa's EC, your 2:00 is my 23:00 : \

 

[LivewiresXe]

Ottawa's EC, your 2:00 is my 23:00 : \

East Coast to the States, but technically Central Canada.

But yeah, I figured the time difference was similar to here and SoCal, if not the same. Though I guess that would mean that uh...let's see the timeframe I would be possibly on would be like....5pm-9:30pm your time then? Or at some random point between there.

 

[Zankoku]

will you please stop pressing buttons LWX


Like, seriously. I killed you off of a single air-dive followed by nothing but DPs. I don't know how I can make this any more clear.

 

[LivewiresXe]

will you please stop pressing buttons LWX


Like, seriously. I killed you off of a single air-dive followed by nothing but DPs. I don't know how I can make this any more clear.

LOL, yeah...I hope it's not TOO bad of a sign that I was laughing like crazy when that happened. I mean, yeah, the 2nd DP was like "wait, wha?" but from the 3rd on I thought it was the most hilarious thing ever. I totally forget how this game works, but I don't care, that was fun and I legit never once felt frustrated or upset the entire time. Plus, I totally forgot how awesome the music in this game is. Truth be told, for a second I thought I had something going against your Yukiko by holding off on going for throws to try and get you to think I wouldn't throw them out until I would out of nowhere but then I realized me not going for throws is like a monkey not throwing poop. And everyone expects the monkey to throw his poop.

Sure I forgot the button loadout a bunch of times (mixing up Sweep with one of Hop, or AOA, and confusing Throw with DP), sure I only won a couple of rounds, and sure I had no idea what I was doing, but it was good to get back into it after 2 and something months and I question why I ever stopped.

 

[Zankoku]

You won rounds against my Yukiko because Yukiko only starts with 8500 life so I can't take as many random hits and still survive you mashing out a 3600 damage Cross Slash against my pressure... to which the only times you didn't, you weren't in Awakening yet so you settled for DP instead. I honestly wasn't looking for any patterns from you because as far as I could tell the only consistent thing about you was that you were probably not going to continue blocking whenever your blockstun ran out.

I'm seriously upset that the only thing you took away from this was "man pressing buttons is the greatest and the soundtrack is cool!" Have fun with others, I guess.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

=/

Smooth Criminal

 

[Sion]

i remember when i used dp as oki

good times

 

[LivewiresXe]

You won rounds against my Yukiko because Yukiko only starts with 8500 life so I can't take as many random hits and still survive you mashing out a 3600 damage Cross Slash against my pressure... to which the only times you didn't, you weren't in Awakening yet so you settled for DP instead. I honestly wasn't looking for any patterns from you because as far as I could tell the only consistent thing about you was that you were probably not going to continue blocking whenever your blockstun ran out.

I'm seriously upset that the only thing you took away from this was "man pressing buttons is the greatest and the soundtrack is cool!" Have fun with others, I guess.

Wait...what? I'm actually legitimately confused as to why you're really upset. Like...when I went into it, I knew I was going to lose a lot, but I was seriously trying to figure out some patterns and things you were doing to try and help me get better, and there were a number of round after where I'd feel I'd learn something. Like, I'd try to bait you into DPing a couple of times, or think of ways to bait/punish your dive throw with Kanji, to get around your fire stuff as Yukiko, etc. I was trying to look at things from a much more light-hearted approach because it's well known that I have a tendency to take matches, and wins/losses too seriously to where I become upset and sometimes angry following them. That hasn't worked for me in the past, so I was trying to do a different approach to see if it would work.

I'm not upset that I lost consistently, that some of my stuff that was actually intentional (Cross Slashing last minute out of a Ziocar that if I didn't Cross Slash out of, would've led to me being killed by your DP, even though it whiffed through your DP and none of us took damage, for instance) looked like spamming to you, that you had some critical comments, or that you trolled me by killing me with only DPs, no. I am however, upset that a couple of your comments were essentially "yeah, you sucked and that was never going to work", that you thought I was being disrespectful towards you and the game itself, and that your response to it is pretty much the statement that you're NOT going to play with me anymore over something that I legitimately felt good about after and was looking forward to doing again sometime.

 

[Sion]

maybe if you mentioned blocking

 

[Crusayer]

Tl;Dr livewire not blocking and then johns.

 

[Minato]

Aisight now knows a fraction of my pain whenever I play someone in BB

Spoiler

but with P4U's better netcode.

 

[LivewiresXe]

maybe if you mentioned blocking

Tl;Dr livewire not blocking and then johns.

Ugh, SERIOUSLY guys? WTF...I know I have to work on blocking. I've ALWAYS had to work on blocking to where I figured at this point saying it would just be kind of unnecessary and a waste of time. I kinda legit don't know what to say since I was serious in what I said and not trying to be disrespectful, was doing my best to avoid making excuses, and I admittedly feel like I'm being crapped on here without a real reason for things that I don't understand. Like...I'm 100% floored and completely caught off guard by this reaction and response to things since I was NOT expecting you guys to be this way about it. Dumb as it sounds, I kinda figured you guys would be glad to hear it and stuff.

 

[Sion]

to be fair, all i do is troll on swf now

real talk, though, you got killed by 1 dive and straight up B+D. i'm sure this isn't the first time you've been killed by oki that is far from safe.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

What I think Sion and Crusayer are saying is that you mention all this hubbub about how you want to get better and what you should fix when pretty much all you should be doing right now is... Block. It's like you're mind is only set on trying to trick the opponent/find ways in/attack, when you should be more defensive and take it all in. From what I know you just try to attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack attack. Try to fit a block block block block block block block in there. DP isn't something you throw out randomly just to get in; that lag is horrible. Watch how Minato or some other pro uses it. I feel like a broken record.

If you're seriously thinking about ways to get in, Livewire, that's fine, but I think you should focus A LOT more on what buttons to press in response. You don't understand all the tools that you have in order to get in yet. But once you do, it's all a matter of practice. Now though, you just respond with sporadic blocking, raw DPs, run-up grabs and ish. That's all pretty dangerous stuff that will get you killed easy. What happened to j.B to approach, dashing, reverse airdashes, etc.? It would just be better for you to hold back all the time and never DP.

What's disrespectful to me is that you haven't touched most of the stuff we point out, but that's just you not playing, I suppose. Don't you play other fighters? I know you've been getting better, and that's great, but you still have pretty bad habits that are just obvious stuff to most of us here. And you're not seeing them, from what I'm reading from aisight. So maybe we'll point them out here like we've been doing for a while now.

I'd still say em down on a list and work them out one by one, but that's just me.

 

[Crusayer]

I think livewire should re-read this page from a couple months ago.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309948&page=115

Like seriously, it's been several months already. If you're still stuck in the same mentality as back then, I dunno how we can get through to you =/. We really tried.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Re: S4kurazaki:

I feel right now like the fact my typical responses are to try and defend myself against everything has been a part of the problem too. You're correct in that I play a number of fighters other than P4A since I play BBCSX, TTT2, and AE2012 for instance. The constant problem with a lot of those games (it's actually even MORE of a problem than TTT2 believe it or not) is that I have difficulty with what to block low, what to block high, what's unblockable, etc. And while I don't like to say it, part of the reason why it's NOT as much of an issue in Blazblue is because of there being Barrier Block, which gives me two chances to block and results in me Barrier Blocking things I should be blocking normally. I have to get past this mindset of thinking that if I'm playing defensively, I'm playing into my opponent's hands, that much I know.

I guess my big question is...how do you even practice just blocking? Like, should I just set the Training Dummy to "Continuous Attack" or something else? I mean, I know how ridiculous this sounds but, I feel as if I don't even know how to begin practicing that other than actual matches, which while I enjoy them, I suspect may lead to repeat comments such as this.

I think livewire should re-read this page from a couple months ago.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309948&page=115

Like seriously, it's been several months already. If you're still stuck in the same mentality as back then, I dunno how we can get through to you =/. We really tried.

From a personal standpoint, this sort of thing actually kind of scares me in both games and a little in life. When I feel I'm not getting something, then I ask other people for help and they're either like "we're really trying here..." or "we tried" and don't know what they can do, coupled with me not being sure why I don't, or how I can get it, it's a little weird. I'd like to say the reason those Persona 4 things haven't changed much is due to me not having played it for an extended period, basic logic would suggest that they're universal in principle and if I'm getting angry at going 5-30 in TTT2, or in having a harder time than I should now and then in Blazblue, it's not a matter of me not playing Persona. Kinda funny in a sense, since I know I'd be at least 10x better if I could figure it out and deal with it. Though not gonna lie, even though I know you're right, and even though I know I HAVE TO find some way to get blocking down, still kinda sucks to hear.




Too Long, Didn't Read version: Yeah, my blocking sucks in the other fighters I play too, please give me ideas how to practice blocking because I have no idea how to. Yadda yadda, random stuff about feeling bad, I know I'll be better for getting it down, the problem's pretty universal and I know you're right.

 

[Minato]

The constant problem with a lot of those games (it's actually even MORE of a problem than TTT2 believe it or not) is that I have difficulty with what to block low, what to block high, what's unblockable, etc. And while I don't like to say it, part of the reason why it's NOT as much of an issue in Blazblue is because of there being Barrier Block, which gives me two chances to block and results in me Barrier Blocking things I should be blocking normally. I have to get past this mindset of thinking that if I'm playing defensively, I'm playing into my opponent's hands, that much I know.

Persona is a game (like BB) that even tells you what hits high/low/air unblockable/unblockable period mid-match. I don't know how much direct it could be unless Rise said it out loud in the game. We already told you before that your problem isn't blocking correctly, it's attempting to block. And if you don't know how to block something, do what I keep telling you to do. Go into training mode after the match and record and play what you lost to. If you don't, you didn't make an effort.

I also don't even see you barrier blocking in BB. Your wakeups consist of 4D. After I keep throwing/CHing you, you go for 2D. If that fails to work, you randomly do j.4D.

Too Long, Didn't Read version: Yeah, my blocking sucks in the other fighters I play too, please give me ideas how to practice blocking because I have no idea how to.

I've said this before, do what I do. Deliberately stop your offense against an opponent and just practice blocking for a brief moment.
I'll purposely just see how long I can block or IB instead of mashing DP where I know they'd work.

 

[Crusayer]

If someone can just get a mic and every time they score a knockdown on livewire just yell "BLOCK".

Force yourself to do something. I don't care what you were doing prior to that. If you want to learn how to do something, you have to actually do it eventually.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Re: Minato:

I probably should've been a bit more clear on the "blocking correctly" thing, because in my mind I'm screaming "block damn you!", but I'm obviously not doing it. And I would obviously say or think "isn't that borderline throwing the match away?", but I suppose that's irrelevant. My only real question on that is, would you consider it disrespectful to your opponent?

If someone can just get a mic and every time they score a knockdown on livewire just yell "BLOCK".

Force yourself to do something. I don't care what you were doing prior to that. If you want to learn how to do something, you have to actually do it eventually.

Lol, I might be tempted to say stuff back to try and be witty, I must admit. As non-constructive as it might be. And yeah, I know. It's like quitting smoking on a smaller scale. Or...forcing yourself to not stay up till 3am so often literally doing nothing, for example.

 

[Crusayer]

Disrespectful is when you don't even consider the opponent a human being. Mashing away without a care in the world is disrespectful. It shows a lack of understanding and that you don't even care what kind of player they are.

It's okay to try new things mid-match. We're not playing for money. Though it's obviously not too fun for us if the only thing you do starting a game is hold back for 99s.

 

[Minato]

I play people online to learn, not to win. I'd rather walk away losing a match if I learn something rather than walking away with a win teaching me nothing. I'm also composed on my blocking which lets me figure out how my opponent reacts on my knockdown and on his offensive.

I don't see it disrespectful since it's not like I'm blocking for 50 game seconds. I'm just not taking any risks/guesses/easy way outs until I see a good opening.

If I cared about winning, I would abuse moves that are pretty much hard to react to online.
I'm not that online Dudley who does full screen EX Machine Gun Blow or do Gauntlet Hades all day. I'd rather do something fun like whiff punishing them regardless of the lag.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Disrespectful is when you don't even consider the opponent a human being. Mashing away without a care in the world is disrespectful. It shows a lack of understanding and that you don't even care what kind of player they are.

It's okay to try new things mid-match. We're not playing for money. Though it's obviously not too fun for us if the only thing you do starting a game is hold back for 99s.

Well yeah, I get that. And while I was going to ask if you guys got that I've never INTENDED to be disrespectful or done so on purpose, I figure that you guys likely understand that or else I'd have been getting a hell of a lot worse of a lashing all these times.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

YELLING BLOCK ON MIC SOUNDS LIKE FUNNNNN I'VE ALWAYS BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT

But my fighting game sense isn't as good so I don't want to be spouting weird stuff, lol.

What's good about 2D fighters is that the majority of the time you can just block low. Like, a lot. After that, all you have to do is just remember which attacks the character you're fighting is considered high. In P4U there are usually about 3 moves each character has that will hit you. Just check them up on dustloop or something, no biggie. You'll know if you get hit with a low(green)/unblkble(red)/air unblkble (yellow)/overhead(blue) exclamation point(s), which means you guarded the wrong way, or in the case of unblockables/air unblockables, YOU JUST GOT PLAYED SON.

Continuously practicing will help you develop the ability to react and predict which move will come out (but there are still stuff like 50/50s). Take Yu for example. He has j.B, AoA, and Raging Lion (both ver.). At times, I know when Minato is going to approach with j.B after a 5D in the corner. Because I know it's a high, I block up. There are other times when he goes for 2A as well, so I block low. I don't get it right all the time, but I at least do get it. The same thing applies to air throws which I still have to work on.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Lol, I probably wouldn't take it personally. And, oh shiza, I totally forgot P4A has that colour thing too. I mean, yeah Minato said the game tells you like Blazblue does, but it wasn't until you mentioned the different colours that I remembered it was like the Pink Throws/Throw Rejects/Reject Misses/etc bit from Blazblue. Kinda embarrassing, but yeah I didn't even know it was there, so I wasn't even looking for it.

 

[Crusayer]

The difference between P4A and BB here is that P4A actually has knockdown oki and force you to eat a mixup. For characters like Yuu or Chie, the mixup is essentially 50/50.

Pst, but you know, if your opponent did the same mixup 3 times prior, maybe your chances of blocking the mixup will go up (;

 

[LivewiresXe]

I see what you did there, Crusayer, lol. Well played.

 

[Minato]

Lol, I probably wouldn't take it personally. And, oh shiza, I totally forgot P4A has that colour thing too. I mean, yeah Minato said the game tells you like Blazblue does, but it wasn't until you mentioned the different colours that I remembered it was like the Pink Throws/Throw Rejects/Reject Misses/etc bit from Blazblue. Kinda embarrassing, but yeah I didn't even know it was there, so I wasn't even looking for it.

That's because 3 of them don't appear if you aren't even trying to block.

 

[Jam Stunna]

If someone can just get a mic and every time they score a knockdown on livewire just yell "BLOCK".

Force yourself to do something. I don't care what you were doing prior to that. If you want to learn how to do something, you have to actually do it eventually.

I'll do this, I have a mic.

 

[Zankoku]

Honestly I was completely caught off guard whenever I'd land a non-counterhit 5c against him jumping backward. How do you not only not press any buttons, but also not hold back after jumping backward and seeing a Kanji 5c coming your way?

I'm fine with playing and not learning anything if the opponent's new or just starting or something, but if you're going to go through every game playing with no focus even if I killed you with almost nothing but DP (I lost 50% of my life to a 5a because of all the blue health I'd accumulated), and even after I IK you for the hell of it (and ended up punishing, surprise surprise, wakeup Cross Slash), then there's really only one change you can make before I'd want to play you again - you need more effort.

Oh, and this?

(Cross Slashing last minute out of a Ziocar that if I didn't Cross Slash out of, would've led to me being killed by your DP, even though it whiffed through your DP and none of us took damage, for instance)

If I remember correctly, this situation started in the first place because you Ziocar'd on your wakeup. Unpredictability has perks, but we're playing a fighting game, not Spin to Win. If your learning process was more of "how can I avoid what I think's going to happen" and less of "what attack should I try next" you'd get a lot more success and a lot fewer bad ideas.

 

[Crusayer]

Random only works if your name is Jiyuna.

 

[Lythium]

Livewire, you seriously need to stop doing this. Unless you plan on just playing this game super casually, then you can mash it out with people on ranked and not care. We've been telling you this stuff for a long time (some of us longer than others). If you want to get better, stop making excuses. Start learning about the games you play.

You don't make good use of training mode. You talk about how you print off huge long lists of combos, and practice those. Well, that's great and all, but you really don't need to do that. What you should be using training mode for:
- learn combos
- learn the properties of your moves
- learn to pressure (blockstrings)
- learn to block (set the training dummy to randomly attack or record blockstrings, try it with different characters)
- absorb concept of spacing
- improving hitconfirming
Utilizing training mode to the fullest makes you a better player. Learn to use it! That's what it's there for. Do you think that all FG players do is memorize a bunch of combos? That's not all there is to it. I probably spend about 80 to 90 percent of my time with a FG in training mode, and that's not just practicing combos. And I'm sure other people here will tell you the same. Once you get good enough to do all of those things reliably, then it mostly comes down to working on match-ups.

Do some research. This ties into what I said about learning the properties of your character. If I'm not feeling like training or playing, but I would like to learn something, then here's what I usually do:
- read about match-ups
- check frame data
- watch match videos
Learning what to take away from these is especially important. Honestly, not to sound mean, but I don't think you know a lot about the characters you play. Do you know the invulnerability properties of Noel's drive moves? Do you know how unsafe Ziocar is? Do you know if your normals are special or jump cancellable? The internet is a hugely valuable resource for FGs nowadays. You don't have to guess if someone is going to be able to punish a move, you can check that information. You can watch some of the best players from around the world play the game that you play, and you can learn by what they do, and steal their tech. Use your resources wisely!

And this is probably your biggest downfall: YOU DON'T LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES. You clearly know that you're making mistakes, and it's okay to make mistakes. But you don't work on correcting them. If you keep getting hit by Aisight's DP, then maybe you should block. If Minato keeps punishing you for abusing drive, then maybe you should try a move that isn't so punishable or blocking on wakeup. STOP AUTOPILOTING AND START THINKING. Remember when we played a FT5 at MAD, and you asked me how I kept breaking your throws? And I told you it was because you used the same throw bad pink throw set-up every time? Learn to mix things up. Learn to think on the fly. We tell you to record your matches, so that you can see your mistakes, and you should be able to recognize them. We also tell you what you're doing wrong, so you already know what your mistakes are. Only you can work on correcting them.

I hope this is the last time I have to write up something like this. If you have questions, ask us, but don't make excuses. Excuses won't help you get improve, effort will. Everyone here is at a different level, and everyone started off the same, but we're all always trying to get better.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Damn.

Just...damn.

*cowers.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[LivewiresXe]

Uh....well damn, Lythi...

I've been reading, re-reading, and staring at those paragraphs there and stuff for what must be 35 minutes straight at least now trying to think of a response, and I've got nothing other than what's coming out as I write this. Like...I have no idea what to say in response other than that I understand what you're saying and that I'll get on it.

 

[Lythium]

I hope you mean that. :3

Like I said (and as you may have noticed), we are all willing to help you out as much as we can, but you have to put in the effort, if you want to get better. Only you can fix your own mistakes.

 

[Zankoku]

So on a lighter note, here was a fun game I played earlier this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKWv0keuFEg

 

[Minato]

One thing I want to stress out that Lyth said is also recording and adapting. When I played you in BB in Noel mirrors, I lost the first match to you as expected. Every match after that I won because I pretty much had you DLed. I know you got sad after, but what I wanted you to do was record your losses, see what I did and try to fix those habits in training mode (especially on the same day). Putting the game down for the day and doing netplay the next day against random netplay scrub #56 isn't going to help you improve your game, just your self esteem for the day.

Recording losses is important since you get to see what you were doing wrong. Recording match where you land astrals will teach you nothing.

Remember when we played a FT5 at MAD, and you asked me how I kept breaking your throws? And I told you it was because you used the same throw bad pink throw set-up every time?

Let me guess. j.AAAA V (land) Throw.

So on a lighter note, here was a fun game I played earlier this week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKWv0keuFEg

Munsu autopiloted so much there. So many times he could've done a CH combo for like half of your health.

 

[Lythium]

One thing I want to stress out that Lyth said is also recording and adapting. When I played you in BB in Noel mirrors, I lost the first match to you as expected. Every match after that I won because I pretty much had you DLed. I know you got sad after, but what I wanted you to do was record your losses, see what I did and try to fix those habits in training mode (especially on the same day). Putting the game down for the day and doing netplay the next day against random netplay scrub #56 isn't going to help you improve your game, just your self esteem for the day.

Recording losses is important since you get to see what you were doing wrong. Recording match where you land astrals will teach you nothing.

This is so important! Even if you get frustrated, you can always save them for later. Watch them the next day, and take note of what you did wrong when you have a clear head.

Focus less on wins and losses, focus on righting your mistakes that you make. As you improve, success will follow.

Let me guess. j.AAAA V (land) Throw.

Yeaaah... that one. ._.

 

[Zankoku]

Munsu autopiloted so much there. So many times he could've done a CH combo for like half of your health.

Munsu's not really great with the combos... I've seen him do the standard one on anti-air 2b, a pretty damaging combo if I happen to wrongblock sweep, and a few other things, but he doesn't really know that many setups and instead just plays heavily on his fundamentals. And if you asked him, he'd probably say something like "hey, cut me some slack, I only got 4th place" :V

 

[LivewiresXe]

I hope you mean that. :3

Like I said (and as you may have noticed), we are all willing to help you out as much as we can, but you have to put in the effort, if you want to get better. Only you can fix your own mistakes.

I do, and I know you guys do. I know enough to know as soon as I can get it through my thick skull that criticism does not equal an insult/attack/personal attack/making fun of/etc and stop being defensive, that things will improve because truthfully I feel things like that have hurt things more than any amount of wake up DPs (note, I'm not trying to make excuses, wake up DP is NOT a viable defensive option 99.9% of the time and should not be defended).

I may not show it sometimes, but I really do appreciate the help you guys give me. Sometimes I simply get surprised with the reaction I get from my comments/in game stuff. For instance, in my comment after the games with Aisight, I was actually expecting people to respond positively and be glad that I wasn't letting the losses get to me, that I was enjoying things about the game, that I had fun, and that I looked forward to playing it more, so when there was criticism within the response I wasn't prepared and reacted strangely to it.

But yeah, I DO take what you guys say to mind and even though I much prefer actual matches to training mode (like, you'll never hear me say "sorry, I can't play because I'm practicing right now" in response to a match/lobby invite), I'm still gonna hit training mode for a good bit.


And hey now...it was just j.AAA (land) Throw. Where you crazy people gettin' that 4th A from?