Persona 4 Arena Ultimax: Out in NA, It's Time You Burn That Dread

[Teczer0]

I'm sorry I'm not in the room.

I just had a fight with my parents and I'm kinda just trying to let out some steam =/

 

[Lythium]

GGs, guys!

I think I need to spend time on this game. And learn to abuse 2B, haha.

 

[Umby]

You guys still playing, by any chance?

 

[Jam Stunna]

Yup. What's your PSN?

 

[Umby]

UmbreonShadow. Gonna watch this Yipes match first, though.

 

[Crusayer]

Jam totally missed my message /o\.

 

[Jam Stunna]

All right, invite sent

 

[Umby]

Got the friend request, just not a room invite.

 

[Teczer0]

GGs guys.

I was kinda not in the mood to play towards the end but oh well, stuff happens I suppose haha.

 

[Crusayer]

That connection was really bad so I ditched X_x. Sion, Jam, and Umby (from earlier room today) were all horrific lag.

GGs otherwise I guess.

 

[Minato]

I wish I had time to play. You guys all seem to be on when I'm busy or when I have to eat. lol

That connection was really bad so I ditched X_x. Sion, Jam, and Umby (from earlier room today) were all horrific lag.

GGs otherwise I guess.

It might be your connection then. I remember our connection was really bad, but my connection with Jam was pretty good for the distance.
Even my connection with Livewire yesterday wasn't too bad either.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah, GGs to everyone. Sorry Crusayer and Umby, I don't know where all that lag came from. Things were going pretty well earlier.

 

[Umby]

ggs. I'm feeling a bit slow today, lag aside, but no johns here.

Minato, I need to mirror your Yu again eventually.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I wish I had time to play. You guys all seem to be on when I'm busy or when I have to eat. lol

It might be your connection then. I remember our connection was really bad, but my connection with Jam was pretty good for the distance.
Even my connection with Livewire yesterday wasn't too bad either.

Hmm...do we normally have bad connections? I always thought we had decent ones when we fought.

And uh....yeah good games since even my losses seemed close. Might suggest a potential "random" rotation setting if one's available or whatnot, but I could be alone on thinking that might help.

 

[Crusayer]

Our connection wasn't that bad Minato lol. It was still 2 bars. Today was like literally delay for half a second.

And I was playing fine earlier today with Aisight and them too. Though I dunno about tonight. The connection with lwx was okay too.

-shrugs- Guess tonight wasn't a night of netplay for me `-`.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah, I'm not keen on setting room rotation to random. I think there should still be a reward for winning and a penalty for losing, although I like having a limit on consecutive wins.

 

[Sion]

ggs everyone

jamstunna - **** your 2b. jokes aside, i liked the way you adapted. i will make you respect my mixups next time!

lythium - i saw those sick setups, but #netplay

tec0 - u know

livewires - do your homework next time, man. nothing i did was safe and everything you did was questionable. in other words, blocking would've won you games against me.

umby - still solid. can't say much cause 1 game is like nothing

 

[Jam Stunna]

2B makes me look so much better than I actually am

 

[Umby]

2B makes me look so much better than I actually am

I was like "Well, let me start hail mary-ing air Raging Lions since I'm already doing bad."
*Gets whacked by 2B*

FML.

 

[LivewiresXe]

ggs everyone

jamstunna - **** your 2b. jokes aside, i liked the way you adapted. i will make you respect my mixups next time!

lythium - i saw those sick setups, but #netplay

tec0 - u know

livewires - do your homework next time, man. nothing i did was safe and everything you did was questionable. in other words, blocking would've won you games against me.

umby - still solid. can't say much cause 1 game is like nothing

*Reads comment, but isn't sure whether to be amused or annoyed since at some points was holding back so hard that the entire fight stick itself moved and shifted position* Oh well, I says. It's that damn dash punch bit, that odd Shabrys stuff, and that one BnB Labrys super combo that does like 5.5k off of nothing. Oi, to win most of the round, get hit once and lose 5-6k straight. Painful, I tells ya.

 

[Umby]

Main thing that caught my attention was you throwing 5A's from a distance. Hoping that was at least an input error for Raging Lion. Otherwise you'd be better of sticking out 5B at those ranges, if you were going to do so.

 

[Minato]

Hmm...do we normally have bad connections? I always thought we had decent ones when we fought.

The first time we played P4A ever, it was pretty laggy. Yesterday felt better.

Our connection wasn't that bad Minato lol. It was still 2 bars. Today was like literally delay for half a second.

I dunno, that's how I felt. I couldn't whiff punish things I usually could on netplay like Ziocar-ing a palm.

I was like "Well, let me start hail mary-ing air Raging Lions since I'm already doing bad."

Air version isn't recommended usually. Longer recovery frames while ground version is longer start up.

Main thing that caught my attention was you throwing 5A's from a distance. Hoping that was at least an input error for Raging Lion. Otherwise you'd be better of sticking out 5B at those ranges, if you were going to do so.

I think it's probably inexperience to some people. I've seen people whiff throws and such at weird ranges.
Sometimes it feels like my opponents don't know the range of their moves, so I'll out footsie and then whiff punish.

 

[Jam Stunna]

LWX, it seems like there's no consistency to your Yu. You play really randomly, with DPs and Ziocars and AOAs at the most awkward times, but none of your tactics form a playstyle that you can consistently ride to victory.

You beat me in our first match, and while I was waiting for my turn again I replayed the match in my head and decided that I didn't have to respect anything you were doing. At worst, I'd get hit with a DP (which can't combo), an AOA (which won't be FC'd for max damage), or a Raging Lion (which won't lead to anything). On the other hand, if I rushed you down and landed a 5A or 2B with red axe, then I won the round. I played alot more recklessly against you after that first match than I did against anyone else, and it worked because you weren't punishing me for it.

 

[LivewiresXe]

LWX, it seems like there's no consistency to your Yu. You play really randomly, with DPs and Ziocars and AOAs at the most awkward times, but none of your tactics form a playstyle that you can consistently ride to victory.

You beat me in our first match, and while I was waiting for my turn again I replayed the match in my head and decided that I didn't have to respect anything you were doing. At worst, I'd get hit with a DP (which can't combo), an AOA (which won't be FC'd for max damage), or a Raging Lion (which won't lead to anything). On the other hand, if I rushed you down and landed a 5A or 2B with red axe, then I won the round. I played alot more recklessly against you after that first match than I did against anyone else, and it worked because you weren't punishing me for it.

The main reason for that, the input errors, the dropped combos, and the surprise with the recovery time/non-blocking pretty much comes down to that with him I really, have absolutely no idea wtf I'm doing. Like yes, I know some of the combos off of Challenge Mode, but I don't know how to set half of them up aside from the corner throw, A Raging Lion> OMC, and AoA ones. Yeah, there's that B Raging Lion one, but hell I think I only ever landed that once in actual gameplay against any of you guys.

 

[Minato]

Almost always end your combos in sweep to 5D. A Raging Lion on the ground is used sparingly outside of a 5D blockstring. The only way to follow it up is if it was a CH, if you OMC, or if you hit 5DD after it.

Seriously though, if you don't have meter and the opponent isn't sandwiched between you and Izanagi, your best combo is like 2A/5A 2B 5B 2AB 5D. It's really simple and goes a long way. If they're out of range of a sweep, do 2A/5A 2B 5B 214C which leads into a safe jump by IADing a little after recovery.

 

[Zankoku]

Don't just randomly go for stuff if you don't know how to set things up. Haven't you played other fighters? Do what you have available to you, and if an opportunity is given for a situational then take it, but don't fish all day for That One Cool Combo.

 

[Sion]

#RunItHomie

not knowing how to play narukami is a fine. that's why i told you to go do your homework

however, not knowing a character does not mean you have to stop blocking. just tkae it as a lesson for future learning

 

[Lythium]

That was fun last night, guys. I'll have to get more nettopurei experience (or offline, haha) and play this game more. :3

Jam: I'm with everyone else, dat 2B is 2good. Even though I have it too, but you know. I'm pretty sure we both did 2B at one point, and it traded in your favour and I was like "why does 2B like Jam better?" :<

Sion: I also saw your sick combos but #netplay~ :3c

Livewire: Didn't get a chance to play against you, but I strongly recommend spending some time in the lab. I know you just started learning Narukami, but you really don't seem to have any idea what you're doing yet. And that's fine, but I would try to settle on one character for now, and really learn that one character. I know you've been switching characters a lot (and I know that feel), but it would really benefit you to just stick to learning one for the time being.

Also, (and please don't take this the wrong way!) try not to get annoyed or defensive or make excuses when people give you advice or criticism. We're not trying to pick on you, we're trying to make you a better player and help you improve. I think your problem is that you don't know what you're doing or how to react to certain situations or match-ups (especially because you don't know your character that well), and you're getting frustrated because you're losing a lot. And then you start autopiloting, and it gets worse.

tl;dr - Don't get frustrated for losing, recognize your mistakes and fix them! The second part is easier to do than the first, but you can do it. :3

Didn't get to play Umby or Tec, next time I guess.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Okay, just so I'm clear: Sion is NOT Crusayer, right? Your PSNs are so similar, when I got a message from Crusayer asking for an invite I thought, "Wait, haven't I been playing you the whole time?"

Sion- I really enjoyed playing you, especially your Shaby. She's scary!

Lyth- I want to learn some of the combos you used (especially combos that inccorporate 2C) so I hope we get to play more.

Umby/Crusayer- GGs, hopefully we won't have as much lag next time.

Teczero- I remember you saying you were relatively new to the game. Hang in there, you're doing well for a beginner.

LWX- Yeah, like Lyth said, we're not trying to pick on you, just trying to help. I agree with her that it might be in your best interest to focus on one character for now. You have really good people to learn from with Aisight's Yukiko and Minato & Umby's Narukami. And if nothing else, mash dat A man, it's there.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Don't just randomly go for stuff if you don't know how to set things up. Haven't you played other fighters? Do what you have available to you, and if an opportunity is given for a situational then take it, but don't fish all day for That One Cool Combo.

Well yeah one "hail mary combo" does not trump smaller but slightly weaker combos that can be done more consistently. I mean hell, I've been taking fighters semi-seriously since Alpha 3, and the first fighting game I ever got/played was Fatal Fury Special. Why it was something like that with weird (at the time) inputs and not a version of Street Fighter 2, I have no idea. Though that being said, sometimes you do have to try and make said situation happen.

#RunItHomie

not knowing how to play narukami is a fine. that's why i told you to go do your homework

however, not knowing a character does not mean you have to stop blocking. just tkae it as a lesson for future learning

I think what was happening was I was trying to block high what should've been blocked low, and tried to block low what was actually overheads. Believe me, when I was on defense, I was doing what I could at the time TO block.

Livewire: Didn't get a chance to play against you, but I strongly recommend spending some time in the lab. I know you just started learning Narukami, but you really don't seem to have any idea what you're doing yet. And that's fine, but I would try to settle on one character for now, and really learn that one character. I know you've been switching characters a lot (and I know that feel), but it would really benefit you to just stick to learning one for the time being.

Also, (and please don't take this the wrong way!) try not to get annoyed or defensive or make excuses when people give you advice or criticism. We're not trying to pick on you, we're trying to make you a better player and help you improve. I think your problem is that you don't know what you're doing or how to react to certain situations or match-ups (especially because you don't know your character that well), and you're getting frustrated because you're losing a lot. And then you start autopiloting, and it gets worse.

tl;dr - Don't get frustrated for losing, recognize your mistakes and fix them! The second part is easier to do than the first, but you can do it. :3

Yeah I know I've been switching characters a bunch this game (I think I've gone, in order Kanji>Naoto>Brosuke>Chie>Yukiko, so that's 5 in a short timespan not even counting Narukami). It's weird, some games like the Soul Calibur ones, or MK9 I could just pick up my main like that and it clicked. Hell, with Blazblue Noel clicked before the game was even released and I was fortunate enough that her playstyle fit in with what I wanted. Then there are others like the SFIV series that have me taking a second look and realizing "of course, how'd I miss THAT?", and some like the bit of KOF I played and the Alpha series where it took a bit in general. This game is odd so far because a couple of times I've thought a character's 'clicked' and I thought I got it, only to get beaten out a lot, find out I'm doing it entirely wrong and that the 'right way' is strangely something that either doesn't sit or doesn't work well with me, making me have to go to the drawing board again.

And oh yeah, I definitely get frustrated and stop actually sitting down and thinking and go into all out "reckless abandon" mode or "I'm going to MAKE this work" which certainly doesn't help. There really is no "shortcut" through any of this and what it all comes down to is time and practice. Even if, like you said, recognizing what you did wrong and trying to fix it, is easier to do than not to get upset when you lose, lol.

LWX- Yeah, like Lyth said, we're not trying to pick on you, just trying to help. I agree with her that it might be in your best interest to focus on one character for now. You have really good people to learn from with Aisight's Yukiko and Minato & Umby's Narukami. And if nothing else, mash dat A man, it's there.

Yeah, I know. Aisight's Yukiko is actually what made me be like "wait...what? How come I can't do THAT?!!" and stuff, while oddly enough Minato and Umby's Narukami's do things where it's like I can see the rationale behind a bunch of stuff they do. I swears Aisight be hiding that Fire Break somehow though.

 

[Lythium]

Livewire: being able to recognize your problems is the first step, and from there, you can work on fixing them. I think if you can keep calm and try to prevent yourself from getting frustrated, it will go a long way. :3

Jam: yeah, for sure! I learned how godlike 2B is from you, haha. Most of Labby's 2C combos are red axe and/or fatal counter only. I've been trying to incorporate more 22A/B/C for oki, but I find it weird to set up so far.

 

[Crusayer]

Yes I am not Sion lol. My PSN is my forum name.

Lwx, you should REALLY keep the replays of your games. You're claiming you're doing things you're not doing a lot of the time. While we don't know what's going on in your head, we're experiencing against you something totally opposite of what you're saying a lot of the time.

 

[Umby]

Here's something you can look at for Narukami:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36t6xD29hk

I'm still grinding stuff out myself, but the basic part (combo -> sweep -> 5D) is easily integrated.

Also, kinda piggybacking off what Crusayer said, saving/reviewing replays is a good way to learn. You can look at things that didn't work out well and change your game plan based upon that. You can even compare them to videos of other players for a better perspective. You can also show said videos to players who haven't played against you so they can critique it.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Yeah I know I've been switching characters a bunch this game (I think I've gone, in order Kanji>Naoto>Brosuke>Chie>Yukiko, so that's 5 in a short timespan not even counting Narukami). It's weird, some games like the Soul Calibur ones, or MK9 I could just pick up my main like that and it clicked. Hell, with Blazblue Noel clicked before the game was even released and I was fortunate enough that her playstyle fit in with what I wanted. Then there are others like the SFIV series that have me taking a second look and realizing "of course, how'd I miss THAT?", and some like the bit of KOF I played and the Alpha series where it took a bit in general. This game is odd so far because a couple of times I've thought a character's 'clicked' and I thought I got it, only to get beaten out a lot, find out I'm doing it entirely wrong and that the 'right way' is strangely something that either doesn't sit or doesn't work well with me, making me have to go to the drawing board again.

And oh yeah, I definitely get frustrated and stop actually sitting down and thinking and go into all out "reckless abandon" mode or "I'm going to MAKE this work" which certainly doesn't help. There really is no "shortcut" through any of this and what it all comes down to is time and practice. Even if, like you said, recognizing what you did wrong and trying to fix it, is easier to do than not to get upset when you lose, lol.

Worry less about who you can win with. Accept that you're going to lose, and lose alot (fun fact: I once played 37 matches with Aisight and won 2). That's the first step.

Next, think about what kind of player you are. Do you pick up things quickly? Are you creative, and can you think on the fly to take advantage of different situations? Or do you learn a couple of combos through rote memorization and look for your opportunity to land it? Are you a camper? A rush down player? Do you have strong defense? Do you panic in matches when your down? Get dejected when you lose? Get angry? Make an assessment of yourself as a player WITHOUT JUDGMENT. Don't say, "I'm not very creative with combos, but I wish I was." You don't have to be, you just have to know if you are or aren't.

Finally, when you know what kind of player you are and accept that you will lose, then you can choose a character that fits your playstyle. And yeah, you're going to lose. Alot. But just roll with the punches, and don't worry so much about winning when we're all goofing around in lobbies. Try different tactics out to see what works for you. Most importantly, if you lose, watch the next matches carefully. Analyze and learn as much as you can.

As an example of determining what kind of player you are, I'll tell you what kind of player I am.

I am not a technical player. I am not creative and I don't think on the fly very well. It takes me a while to really understand the intricacies of a new game. I don't have strong mindgames, but I do have okay defense. I don't land many hits, but I like to maximize damage when I finally do land one. I like rushdown, alot. I don't panic when I'm losing, but I do get salty when I lose.

I thought I would main Yukiko before the game came out, but her playstyle just doesn't work for me. She's a bit too technical and I don't do well at playing defensively. Labrys is the character that works for me because she rewards an offensive style with red axe, she's simple (I can get red axe simply by mashing A) and she punishes mistakes hard. I can get 5K damage with a relatively easy combo, and her 2B and j.B do all of the anti-air and crossup work for me. I have two combos that I do over and over, and while I may fail to maximize damage in unique situations, my combos are easy to pull off and have a few different starters so they at least look different. I'm not good enough to play more than one character, so I play Labrys exclusively. Maybe one day I'll be comfortable enough with the game to learn someone else, but I'll never be like Sion, Minato or Aisight who have two (or more) really good characters. And that's okay.

This understanding didn't come quickly though. I spent the month I was offline watching match video and in the lab. It takes me a while to learn a new game, and in the meantime I get smoked (look at my match totals next time we play). But I know I have to endure it, so I do.

Just take a step back and evaluate yourself objectively, then make the best character decision for yourself. Then get ready to get your *** kicked.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Jam has it in stone, pretty much the story of most dedicated players. One thing though is that I don't have a certain playstyle yet.

No tips for moi? Or was aisight's Yukiko totally taking all the attention, lol. If that's the case, only one that could give me tips is aisight himself...

Unless he loves his own Yukiko that much, too D;

 

[Minato]

I think what was happening was I was trying to block high what should've been blocked low, and tried to block low what was actually overheads. Believe me, when I was on defense, I was doing what I could at the time TO block.

You should learn to accept Sion's advice. I remember your matches. I didn't see blue or green exclamations a lot.
You were just caught not blocking or getting CHed.

I keep telling people that in matches, I'll deliberately stay in blockstun to understand an opponent's blockstring or even IB things to help my defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36t6xD29hk

Hm... that was pretty informative. A lot of the setups I knew, but that really helped me get a better idea on how to maximize damage off of this. Thanks.

No tips for moi? Or was aisight's Yukiko totally taking all the attention, lol. If that's the case, only one that could give me tips is aisight himself...

I haven't played you since that one day. But besides getting matchups down, I'd like to see you take control the flow of the match more.
Keepaway's good and all, but Yukiko has some really nasty frame traps and unblockable setups for pressure.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Très bien.

I should be studying, but I'm going to go watch some of My=Key's matches. Juuuust a little.

After watching some aisight and other Yukiko's, I'm trying to make use of Agi A. I've gotten in the habit of only using Agi B when I worked so hard to integrate it to my game, lol. Not too hard, I suppose. I'm just training myself to make quick decisions in response to things like block or if I want them at the wall.

You've told me that so many times Minato, but I never got to it, lol.
And I dunno where to look. Dustloop?

 

[Minato]

Yeah, I recommend Dustloop. It's also a good idea to look up tutorial vids on YT.

Also, frame data is up. http://famitsu.jp/fmbk/p4u/table/01.html

Edit: Hm, guess I was wrong about air versions of Raging Lion having more recovery.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how Yuki's 2D sets up an unblockable. It should force a high/mid block, right?

It might be my timing that's off.

 

[Lythium]

I haven't played against your Yukiko, but this thread might be helpful: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14915-Yukiko-Amagi-Strategies-amp-Tips