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'Line-halving' (which is a term I'm pretty sure I just made up) could actually theoretically be done in real time. Anything more involved, again, involving interpolation requires a buffer, at least two scan lines at whatever the original scan rate is.
You're right, I typed Component instead of Composite. I think I got them mixed up by typing YPbPr, which is something I never do.
Please do, and report here when it arrives! I'm personally waiting to get one until I pick up an XCAPTURE-1, but I'm a little short on cash at the moment, so it'll be a while.
PVMs (and similar CRTs) are about equal in image quality and lag. Perhaps even better, because they are usually made for exactly Melee’s resolution (480p60), while PC CRT monitors are usually geared towards 1200p85.
That device is not the state-of-the-art for component→VGA conversion. I wrote a review on the Extron CVC 200 on page 3 or something here, and I really recommend that one, especially considering it’s often on Ebay for ~20$ in the USA.
The BNC inputs on PC CRTs expect standard RGBHV video. Most of them accept RGsB too. But there is no way to get the Wii to output one of these through the component cables (with 3-RCA connectors); that one will always output YPbPr. (Sync is sent on Y channel.)
So since CRT PCs display in 480p... does that mean it can't display in 480i or less? I'm wondering in case I want to play other games that don't output 480p.PVMs (and similar CRTs) are about equal in image quality and lag. Perhaps even better, because they are usually made for exactly Melee’s resolution (480p60), while PC CRT monitors are usually geared towards 1200p85.
This results in PC CRTs having more of a scan-line / sharp look, while PVMs look more “uniform”.
I have both and kind of prefer the PC CRTs, because they are quieter, but really both are perfectly fine and much better than the abundant 480i60 TVs.
That device is not the state-of-the-art for component→VGA conversion. I wrote a review on the Extron CVC 200 on page 3 or something here, and I really recommend that one, especially considering it’s often on Ebay for ~20$ in the USA.
But, yes, using Wii component cables and an Extron CVC 200 (+ a 5-BNC to 5-BNC or 5-BNC to VGA cable) will allow you to connect to any PC CRT and play on that just fine.
The BNC inputs on PC CRTs expect standard RGBHV video. Most of them accept RGsB too. But there is no way to get the Wii to output one of these through the component cables (with 3-RCA connectors); that one will always output YPbPr. (Sync is sent on Y channel.)
You do get a picture by connecting the Wii component cable, but there will be green tint. I was not able to find example pics on the internet, so I hooked up my Wii to my Mitsubishi 2070SB directly and made photographs. The green tint is a bit less pronounced than in real life due to automatic white balance that seems like it can’t be disabled entirely.
Why is that, you may ask?
To put it short, if we have a gray color, in RGB it would be about:
G 0.5
B 0.5
R 0.5
While in YPbPr, it would be:
Y 0.5 (total brightness)
Pb 0 (positives denote blue shift, negatives denote yellow shift)
Pr 0 (positives denote red shift, negatives denote green shift)
Now what happens is that the Wii component line that carries sync is the Y one, so by connecting that to the CRT green line, it will read a higher offset for that color than for the other dimensions. The CRT assumes the YPbPr values to be GBR values, so all near-grayscale colors are interpreted as green.
If you are okay with that much green tint, sure, just buy the adapters and make the connections. But I think the 20-30$ for an Extron CVC 200 to get proper colors are easily worth it.
Here’s a picture of a high-res CRT PC monitor with 480p Melee (from Gamecube here, but Wii+CVC200 looks ~95% identical) where you can see the scanlines when viewed in full-res:
Here is a Sony PVM, for comparison:
(For this one, I cranked up brightness and contrast all the way so that with lowest camera ISO setting the picture is still distinct enough; in real-life, the colors on the CRT PC monitor are almost identical when viewed side-by-side. Also, I took these pictures on different days and times, so the lightning was different, causing some change in color white balance too.)
Yes, PC CRTs only take 480p60 and higher, not 480i60.
Have you read my review on it on page 4?
No. It’s due to the signal format, which is also YPbPr on Gamecube component cables. The only difference is if you modify the chip in the cables, which is only within Gamecube cables, you can get it to output RGBHV directly. But at ~200$ for the Gamecube component cables, this won’t exactly be cheap, and if you’ve never soldered before, the cable mod isn’t that easy.
Damn, that sucks. So pretty much, if I were to use this CRT setup, I'm limited to only playing games that run in progressive scan. I don't have as much variety as to what I can play compared to the PVM/BVM, which can play lower than 480p, correct? Now I'm starting to feel even more content with my 480i Sony Wega.
Yeah, unfortunately. Which games do you play that don’t do 480p?
Well, I don't know if I have any, but just in case if my games were, I would at least be ready for it.
From the looks and the description of that TV, it seems very likely to me that it has noticeable lag.
Assuming it doesn't lag, would you believe that the picture quality would be similar to a PVM/BVM? Or at least close?
Amazon description:
Well that's misleading then, because the one TV I saw on Craigslist (Not sure if it's the exact same one but looked very similar to it) had component inputs that said "progressive scan" on them.
I had the blacking out problem even after re-capping. But it’s possible that I made an error—my PCB had a different layout than the one in the German reference, and I also wasn’t able to get just the asked cap specs in the local hardware shop.
Of course a YPbPr→RGBHV converter converts to RGB. I have that one too, but it also has blacking out problems.
I have the opportunity to obtain a Sony PVM 20L5 (w/ an Extron per your recommendation) because I'd like to have a non-Dolphin 480p60 Melee setup (on Wii) in addition to the Dolphin Melee setup I already have with a CRT monitor (19" ViewSonic Ultrabrite a91f+ hooked up via mini-display port adapter to a Macbook Pro). However, to minimize space, I ideally want to use the PVM for both setups (keep in mind, I don't intend to do any streaming or recording on these).
If the CRT monitor you already have is in good condition, I’d say that it isn’t worth it to go for the PVM. The PVM-20L5 can only do up to 45 khz horizontal scan rate, whereas your A91F+ can do up to 86 khz. Furthermore, the PVM-20L5 only accepts common broadcast resolutions (PAL, 480i60, 480p60, 1080i60 and 720p60). So it wouldn’t even be able to do 800x600 at more than 60 hz (even at just 60 hz I wouldn’t bet on it).
I guess what I really want to know before pulling out the wallet for the PVM-20L5 if the PVM would be able to even display as external monitor (e.g: extended screen) for my Macbook Pro like my A91F+ is doing currently. In addition, maybe you can enlighten me here:
Reason why I going for a CVC if it's reasonably priced is because I returned a Mayflash Wii->VGA cable I bought only worked for like 4 seconds (Saw the wii loading) before the A91F+ blacked out with 'Frequency over Range' with the Wii settings at EDTV/HDTV (480p); and it hasn't displayed anything since. Googling a bit and reading reviews, it sounded like I may have just a cheap cable and need something with stable better quality; hence I'm hoping an Extron would help me get a Wii onto at least the A91F+.
The PVM will only take composite sync, which means that you'd have to connect the VGA output from the DP adapter to an RGBHV breakout cable and connect the H and V sync signals to a Csync converter (iirc quite easy to build these yourself, but I've never needed one) before plugging it into the PVM's external sync input slot.
Switching to RGBHV output will turn off the sync signal on the Y line. So yes, you do need to change the connector with H and V wires connected (and the entire cable if you use component, D-Terminal already has spare cables inside you can use).
"2 rear-panel HD-compatible component video
It's still worth $200 even though it's a CRT? I wouldn't even pay more than $100 for a BVM lol. But man, price isn't really the issue, what's really holding me back is the size. I really don't want a TV that big anymore. The biggest size TV I'd like is 20 inches. 13-17 is ideal for me though. I don't like the look of a bulky tv in my room lol.
Well, if you don’t want a 32" CRT, then don’t buy it. It’s just that if you *are* looking for a 32" CRT (and don’t want 20" or less), it’s unlikely you’ll find one that does 480p in good condition for less than 200$.
Did you set your PVM to "COMP –SYNC ON Y"? If it's set to "RGB –SYNC ON G", it might not take the color channels correctly. Although I'd expect that even then it would be in (wrong) colors, not grayscale. I have a different PVM though, so maybe you have some chrominance setting somewhere that's turned to zero? (A chroma knob on the front panel, for example.)
No, that’s not possible. You can buy a Wii VGA cable instead for 20$, but the picture quality will not be quite as good as with an Extron CVC. (Still much better than 480i though.)
I figured out the problem, there were no knobs but 'MONO' and 'BLUE ONLY' were turned on. I falsely assumed mono referred to audio mute instead of monochrome and blue light only affected the menu options, hence why it seemed R/B signals didn't do anything. Thanks!
Great, thanks for letting me know what the problem was!
Get the Mayflash Wii VGA cable then.
ViewSonic a91f+ via CVC 300. Also sniped a Extron USP 405 cuz I saw it at a good price (50+shipping), gonna try it out to get the PVM to act as an external monitor like I originally planned. Heard also emulators for retro games look great on PVMs (esp the NES/SNES/MAME etc).
