Perfect Control: UpB-cancel Juggling

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

hey, i bet all of you doc-mains or fans know the scene where SDM juggles a Bowser across FD with UpB-Cancels....
How hard do you think this is, can you do it?

i wanted to try to do a video of it W/out AR, do you think it´s worth the trouble, or just **** it, its nothing special?

thanks for the reply xD

( the scene is from Perfect control 2)

 

[Asian_Flava]

nothin special.. dont bother

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

allrighty ^^

why the hell did he put it into perfect control then xD
stupid SDM ^^

 

[Dogysamich]

ya know, i've been starin at this for a wihle tryin to figure out what to say.

to say it's not worth it is a complete understatement; the problem is getting it consistant enough to be worthwhile.

i mean, if you could up+b on command %100 percent of the time (or hell, even %90 or so), it'd actually be a pretty nice OoS option.

The problem is, most people cant (me included).

___

So to answer the question, what would be the purpose of up+b juggling? Just like you said in the topic, a perfect control thing.

It's like the peachs who can DjC turnip juggle, not extremely useful, but shows some degree of control.

In the end, it's not incorrect to say it's "useless", but it's not like really is useless.

 

[ye25]

I really dont get the up B cancel thing could someone explain how it works?

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

To UpB cancel you have to perform upB and press teh control stick angled up, and then, while still on teh gorund smash the stick down the opposite direction...

i get it down about 50% of the time when i´m lucky, but it doesnt give you a whole lot of combo possibilitys, but you can use it to brake up combos(OoS, like you said ,but i cant do that, because i need "preparation time" for it xD i´m to slow ^^)

well, i´ll propably do the vid anyways this week, maybe on wednsday, or thursday

till then.... lets find some use for it xD

 

[Dogysamich]

like i said earlier, the main use for it is an OoS option.

It's the same concept as Samus/Peach/Bowser's up+b OoS.

The difference is unlike the other 3, you canNOT move away after you land the hit.

(and this is all different than just up+b'ing OoS like some doc/mario players do anyways)

___

The only other real use for it is to combo FFs, since they will fall back into your range while in a stun animation.

____

Other than that, you can use it to be fancy and whatnot in your free time, but that's about it, as far as i know.

 

[ye25]

Oh ok, just as i thought. So do you hit the opposite direction asap?

 

[Pyrostormer]

It's hard as hell to pull off. If you want someone who can do it alot, turn toward Eighteen Spikes.

 

[Dogysamich]

Oh ok, just as i thought. So do you hit the opposite direction asap?

You hit up+b in one direction (like up and right), and then on the 4th frame, you hit down in the opposite direction (so down and left).

 

[ye25]

ooo, ok, that makes more sense. thx dogy

 

[xYz]

SmashMac upB cancelled me outta his shield when we were playing doubles friendlies at an orlando tournament yesterday. I got a lil shock outta it, i then did it to some ganon main and he too was a lil shocked. good times.

 

[St. Viers]

If I'm running, I get it like 90% of the time. Unfortunately it sucks as an approach...

Just standing, I get it like 60%

From the shield, I get like 5% :/ I either jump or roll (because I hit side or up to quick before hitting B)

It's fun to do, and useful. Just not for comboing or approaching

 

[ye25]

If you master it...goodbye falco?

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

O M F G

i´m too sexy ::D

i just practiced a bit, (dont have anything to record at my dads house) and came up with something new

i must admit, i didnt manage to pull it off yet, but half ^^

(i treid about a minute, but i live in an old house, and i´m freezing, so i cant even up-B canacel right atm...)

well anyways, what it is:
Shorthop bair to waveland followed by Up-B cancel

at the right percentages you should be able to land both attacks, i only managed to hit the UpB cancel once, and once i did it without hitting the opponent at all

if someone´s intressted in trying it, i just HAD TO post it, cause it just felt like the perfect thing to do, to show you have the sexyiest doc ever, and can **** anyone you meet xD

well, i´m off trying to kill bowser by just beeing to **** sexy xD
( i´ll tell you when i´ve hit both attacks once xD)




OH MY GOD
i just got back on teh Cube and did it on teh second try :D
13 dmg, and i feel HELL OF GOOD

****, just so brilliant ^^
(and now bowser is killing me, cause i´m not there anymore xD)
well, at least i know i´m awesome now :D
****, i´m so hyped, just cause i did this, i feel like a ssbm-addict xD

 

[Kashakunaki]

Haha. I think you're a little too excited. That's cool, but in an actual tournament match that wouldn't be a very good thing to do as you have an infinite amount of better choices... 'cept it would make you look hella awesome.

If I'm running, I get it like 90% of the time. Unfortunately it sucks as an approach...

Just standing, I get it like 60%

From the shield, I get like 5% :/ I either jump or roll (because I hit side or up to quick before hitting B)

It's fun to do, and useful. Just not for comboing or approaching

Sadly I'm like that, too. I can do it almost every time I'm running and I'm like, "...wth?"

I have a habit of pilling or caping when not in my shield and in the shield I tend to roll or sidestep. Sadtimes.com

SmashMac upB cancelled me outta his shield when we were playing doubles friendlies at an orlando tournament yesterday. I got a lil shock outta it, i then did it to some ganon main and he too was a lil shocked. good times.

I felt pretty good... because I was in a match and I had never tried to Up B cancel in a match before and I was getting pressured by Falco and I went for it and pulled it off. The guy I was playing was just like, "What the **** just happened? Omg..." and then I proceeded to three stock him ^_^

 

[xYz]

bair, upb is for toddlers....

you docs already know the true upB cancel combo.
somebody post a vid of it, i'll paypal them $5 bucks.

 

[Dogysamich]

If you master it...goodbye falco?

I wish. I really do wish.

If you master it, falco will have a harder time pillaring you since you'll have an option as fast as his shine.

Any falco player i know will stop attacking your shield after he gets hit with that.

SOOOOOOOOOOO back to square one. >.>
​

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

i know you´ll never wanna do a Bair UpB combo ingame xD
but its just so good ^^


well, i´ll capture all the stuff tomorrow, what was that combo you mentioned xYz? i remember it was something with upairs and upB cancels as "finisher"....
i prolly wont be able to do it, cause in truth, i suck with doc :D

well, i hope to have it all done on thursday, if anybody is good with editig stuff, and wants to do it for me he´s welcome ^^ i only have Movie Maker, and that will wreck the quality ^^


@ kashalunaki + st.viers:
for some reason i can only doit running from right to left xD
can´t ever seem to do it the other way round ^^ i also feel more comfortable WDing that way.....


edit2:
another thing... somehow it seems easier to do when you actually hit the oponent... could that be? does the hitbox come out before you have to press down? then it could be that the lag of you hitting him gives you a whole lotta time ( i think the hitbox starts at frame 4, right?)

 

[Speedsk8er]

I can never get that down. I should practice it more.

 

[DaBRÜM]

Ok, quick question, what is the lag on doing the up b cancel?
THis is very impt for my idea

 

[Ryan-K]

ELI (ELI-mination on the boards) can get it 99% of the time and attacking his shield is like attacking samus', you cant get away with it.

The lag is the same as the landing lag as the up b itself which isnt totally bad especially since they go up and you stay on the ground.

I think every serious doc should learn this trick.

 

[Bullet Bill]

hey, i bet all of you doc-mains or fans know the scene where SDM juggles a Bowser across FD with UpB-Cancels....
How hard do you think this is, can you do it?

i wanted to try to do a video of it W/out AR, do you think it´s worth the trouble, or just **** it, its nothing special?

thanks for the reply xD

( the scene is from Perfect control 2)

I can do it. it really isn't that hard basically. All you need to do is up cancel run then repeat. Try it you can even do uairs in between.

 

[ye25]

Imma go try it right now!

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

lolz, i cant even juggle the ****ing bowser right now, so you guys might have to w8 a little longer for teh vid xD

maybe i´ll be in a better shape this evening -.-

 

[$hYne]

edit2:
( i think the hitbox starts at frame 4, right?)

Not quite correct, sir.
Actually the hitbox comes out at frame 3.

Hope I could help.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

lol, dont be calling me sir dude xD

well anyways, i gotta record that stuff this evening, you can doubleshine next to me or whatever...

thanks anyways :D

i dont like that frame data programm, it takes ages, and i have no idea where i have it at

 

[sk8tinGam0r]

up-b cancel comes out on 3, falco's shine comes out in 4, i think foxes comes out on the first frame. u use it when ur pressured in ur sheild. fox for instance is d-air shining ur sheild right after the shine do up-b cancel to knock him away. plus like everyone has said but hasnt really thought about it is an incredible mindgame. everytime i do it my opponent gos "WTF WAS THAT!!!!" or just start laughing histaricly. so it does throw there game off (normally)

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

props to dogy's sig for being Read or Die. Rediculously awesome Anime.

up-b cancel is hard. know wat else is hard. beating people in ny while going to high school.

 

[Kashakunaki]

bair, upb is for toddlers....

you docs already know the true upB cancel combo.
somebody post a vid of it, i'll paypal them $5 bucks.

You got a deal, pal.

 

[$hYne]

up-b cancel comes out on 3, falco's shine comes out in 4, i think foxes comes out on the first frame.

WTF ?!

Falcos Shine comes out on the first frame exactly like Foxes .
You can also read this in NJzFinest Shine Guides .

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

WTF ?!

Falcos Shine comes out on the first frame exactly like Foxes .
You can also read this in NJzFinest Shine Guides .

Lol @ n00bs. But wouldn't it just be better to **** falco by perfecting shieldgrabs, since it's easier, works with every character, and has more uses? I think you guys are looking too deep for a solution that's already right there.XD

 

[sk8tinGam0r]

falcos does not come out on first frame it is the 4rth... and dont call people noobs when u say something like "just sheild grab"... u havent played many good foxes and flacos. sheild grab last time i checked takes 8 frames for the hitbox to come out, foxes shine takes 1, 8>1 so shine wins, falco comes out on 4, 8>4 falco's shine wins. hence the probablilty of landing a sheild grab on a good falco or fox is very unlikly. unless u get lucky like me and the shine shadow hits . the 2 people that i play against is SmashMac and ShiekSSBM, in friendlies ShiekSSBM uses falco and fox a lot(well against me anyways) the only way i get my grabs in are fj pills waveland to grab. which he catches on rather quickly and i cant get more than 1 or 2 grabs in a match. SmashMac uses DK, fox, or falco in friendlies so i get a lot of space animal practice. and sheild grab never lands unless they miss the l cancel. if anyone has ever seen a video of smashmac u know he doesnt miss l cancels. and shiekssbm misses occasionally but he till manages to get the shine in there... so in conclusion to my long *** post its dificult to sheild grab spacies

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

sry sk8ting, never heard of falcos shine, not being the fastest attack in the game, so i gotta stick to the other 2 guys
maybe ShYne can enligthen us with some frame data

also, witchking isnt talking about grabbing after dair...
no pillar is perfect, u can always shieldgrab
its only a few frames, as far as i know, but you always can....
(no excact sources, just what i heard)
and i´m pretty sure it´s right, just like falco´s shine coming out at the 1st frame

 

[sk8tinGam0r]

ok i do stand corrected i just looked it up falco's does come out on the first frame it just cant be canceled as fast(i think) but even still sheild grabbing a space animal is still a bad idea.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

if you do it good, you can grab inbetween the pillars, i dont think its harder to learn than effectively UpB canceling everybody :D

but, one thing about falco: his jumping animation takes longer, so he´s a bit slower overall when shining

 

[$hYne]

ok i do stand corrected i just looked it up falco's does come out on the first frame it just cant be canceled as fast(i think) but even still sheild grabbing a space animal is still a bad idea.

Falcos shine is as fast as Fox´s and can be canceled as fast as Fox´s.
Probably you heard that Falcos jc shines are a bit slower than Fox´s , cuz his jump
animation lasts longer .

And yes even with perfect pillar there are Frame windows in which you can
shieldgrab the Falco .

Those windows are from Frame 11 to 25 this is when Falco is airborne and starts the dair
and from Frame 40 to 44 where Falco is in L-canceling lag .

Of course the window is depending on how fast you start the dair while airborne.

Docs up B Hitbox comes out at Frame 3 , so its possible to up b oos when Falco is
pillaring, even if he does it perfect .

Edit: Yomi there is your frame data =P

 

[SmashMac]

Fox's hitbox for the shine comes out on the first frame, Falco's comes out on the 4th frame, Doc's up+B cancel comes out on the 3rd frame in the initial direction.

Don't grab out of your shield unless you spaced properly while lightshielding (or unless you want a free 50% damage from the falco). Up+B cancel is a lot safer than grabbing out of a regular shield (not light-shield) because it comes out a lot faster than your grab will, especially while your shield is getting ***** by Falco. The point is to get Falco away. If you want to grab out of your shield, it should only be after a light-shield since light-shielding will properly space you away from Falco so that you'll be able to grab without really worrying about it. The same thing applies to a Fox.

 

[sk8tinGam0r]

yes so i was right it does come out on the 4th frame w00t w00t!! and i dont even have AR

 

[Bullet Bill]

I don't know much about frames but I do know that upB cancel is a great way of getting out of pillers.