Peach's Changes, Buffs and Nerfs

[CandyCakes]

I think she can roll cancel throw turnips

No she can't, but she still has jump cancel throw. It doesn't slide as far but I mean it's better than nothing
To jump cancel throw U...
1.dash
2.jump
3.toss the turnip right away

 

[SirroMinus1]

No she can't, but she still has jump cancel throw. It doesn't slide as far but I mean it's better than nothing
To jump cancel throw U...
1.dash
2.jump
3.toss the turnip right away

Yea it was the jump cancel i was probably thinking about. Im getting my new tech mixed up. just learned the roll cancel throw with dark pit & lil mac. But the jump cancel throw is good tech even with the shortened range.

[UPDATE]
Peaches F-air animation is just too good. She takes off her crown & hits you with it. Small details like that just makes you appreciate the hard work that went into it

 

[Mr.CreamCakes]

I've been using ftilt a lot. It's good for spacing and combos since the hitstun omg I love it

 

[Meru.]

Needless to say I will also update this thread with patches changes. Things that have removed or added will be noted in the OP.

 

[Meru.]

Patch 1.04 is out.

Things we know for sure

- Bug where Peach attacks ignore Stale Move Negation is out.
- Bug where she can instantly pull turnips from the ledge is out.
- Bug where she can cancel ending lag or hitstun is out.

Something I think MAY have been changed

- Dair knockback decreased, comboing is a little bit easier Deconfirmed.

Other than that she seems completely unchanged, including customs. That's great news since she's very strong and characters like Rosalina, Sheik and Greninja are eating nerfs.

 

[Carrill]

^I'm not really sure if they decreased Dair's knockback. Doesn't seem any easier to string together Dairs like in Brawl

Anyway, I'm fine with this changes. I never really used instant turnip pull or TLC very often anyway. I'm more worried about the presence of stale move negation on her floating aerials.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

If anything, the stale moves is less pronounced than, say, Brawl, so thankfully this doesn't hit Peach's ability to KO very much. However, I think it's going to be easier to combo off of dair simply because now it will decay even a slight bit while floating, meaning it won't continuously send as far as a fresh one. This could actually lead to more combo setups from one of our most common lead-in moves.

EDIT: Also the turnip 'farm' glitch that Kizzu posted a video of is still in.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Raz was saying her turnip pull time got buffed as in it's a little faster. Is this legit or placebo?

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Patch 1.04 is out.

Things we know for sure

- Bug where Peach attacks ignore Stale Move Negation is out.
- Bug where she can instantly pull turnips from the ledge is out.
- Bug where she can cancel ending lag or hitstun is out.

Something I think MAY have been changed

- Dair knockback decreased, comboing is a little bit easier

Other than that she seems completely unchanged, including customs. That's great news since she's very strong and characters like Rosalina, Sheik and Greninja are eating nerfs.

Peach's 0-Death combo no longer works. It can only be performed once at low percents, afterwards, Nair after Footstool knocks the opponent into the air.

EDIT: It seems the combo is still in. Confirmation is needed.

EDIT 2: "0-death no longer works; Nair after footstool state now sends upwards"

 

[Awesomecakes]

Dang thats some heavy nerfs =(

 

[EOE]

Peach's 0-Death combo no longer works. It can only be performed once at low percents, afterwards, Nair after Footstool knocks the opponent into the air.

Not quite sure how exactly this would be implemented, considering it's not continuous like a jab lock.
Are you sure you're not just hitting the sweet-spot of the N-air? It's common to hit the sweet-spot if your timing is off (or if you're trying it against one of the characters listed as 'inconsistent). This would allow the opponent to escape the lock after about 5% on average. The sour-spot will lock until about 70% on average.

I'm sure the lock will still work in 1.0.4, but I'll test it when I get home.

 

[Carrill]

Raz was saying her turnip pull time got buffed as in it's a little faster. Is this legit or placebo?

I don't have any means to test it but I feel it's legit. That or I'm just too used to how slow her turnip pull has become.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Not quite sure how exactly this would be implemented, considering it's not continuous like a jab lock.
Are you sure you're not just hitting the sweet-spot of the N-air? It's common to hit the sweet-spot if your timing is off (or if you're trying it against one of the characters listed as 'inconsistent). This would allow the opponent to escape the lock after about 5% on average. The sour-spot will lock until about 70% on average.

I'm sure the lock will still work in 1.0.4, but I'll test it when I get home.

I've tested this again and you might be right. It seems the combo is still in and that was misinformation on my part. Also, I forgot the combo locked up to about 70%. Do you think Nintendo might patch this later on?

Irrelevant post.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Not quite sure how exactly this would be implemented, considering it's not continuous like a jab lock.
Are you sure you're not just hitting the sweet-spot of the N-air? It's common to hit the sweet-spot if your timing is off (or if you're trying it against one of the characters listed as 'inconsistent). This would allow the opponent to escape the lock after about 5% on average. The sour-spot will lock until about 70% on average.

I'm sure the lock will still work in 1.0.4, but I'll test it when I get home.

I asked him the same thing in the other thread. Theoretically they could implement it by making nair always sweet spot, which IMO would be a huge ridiculous buff I'd easily welcome.

 

[byebye]

peach fast fall seemed like it is falling fast now. or maybe not?

 

[HAMnEGGS]

I can confirm that the 0 to death combo still works. I don't have excellent execution, but I was able to pull it off at least 2-3 reps on various members of the cast up to around 70%. I believe that was the same pre-1.04.

The misinformation from above came from the fact that most of Peach's changes were really just bug fixes. TLC, instant turnip pull, and float negating stale moves are likely not what the developers intended. Although losing those tools does sting.

http://youtu.be/f6pjFKbw3i0

The 0-death combo that no longer works is the one as shown above. This worked because after Peach footstooled her opponent, (in this case robin,) she instantly snapped back to the ground through air dodging without landing lag. This bug was removed so she cannot perform this technique anymore.

http://youtu.be/qvzl0Z63-AU

The 0-death combo that still works is this one. [Down-throw Turnip -> Footstool -> Float -> Float-release + N-air Sourspot + Turnip catch -> Repeat] Sour spot N-air still forces a get-up and leaves them vulnerable for continuing the combo.

The description in the video lists characters that it doesn't work on. I look the liberty of testing it out on them post-1.04. Here are my findings:

No reps:
-Sheik
-Olimar

One rep from 0%:
-Toon Link
-Lucario

One rep up to and including 1%:
-Link

One rep up to and including 2:
-Charizard

Works, but very inconsistent:
-ROB

One rep, too high re-catch turnip. [Down-throw turnip, footstool, float, float release Nair, fastfall] Works up to ~72%, depending on the turnip that's pulled:
-Bowser Jr.

Too hard to footstool to be practical:
-Ness
-Villager
-G&W
-Pikachu

Possible, but difficult to do. Must delay float from footstool. Timing is tight, since it's tough to sour spot the Nair AND catch the turnip:
-Jigglypuff
-Kirby

Works. Must delay float a bit:
-Robin

I didn't test it beyond the characters listed in the description, but i figure it'll still work the same, since nothing has changed about Peach to stop it from working. Although, testing on each member of the cast is still warranted.

EDIT: BTW, hi, I'm relatively new here! =3

 

[Razmakazi]

yeah i'm pretty sure that turnip pull is faster and fast-fall, too

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ byebye + @ Razmakazi : Nope! Peach does not pull a turnip out more quickly nor does she falls any faster.

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/page-33#post-18011675

Now now, don't be under that nasty placebo effect, guys! x) But fear not! Despite several of Peach's advanced techniques being removed, she still has all the tools she needs to be a guaranteed Top 10.

 

[byebye]

thanks for confirming! at least there's someone other than me that felt peach fell faster on her FF this time. even though it really didn't. ahahha.

@ M Meru. , are there no more changes to peach? peach is really looking solid still.

 

[Razmakazi]

ah dope. either way peach got better.
sheik's needles have much more lag, fair is weaker, and bouncing fish is weaker.
greninja's usmash is laggier and riskier.
lucario's up b is super laggy now.

A lot of our hard match-ups got a bit easier so whatev, I'll take it lol

 

[EdreesesPieces]

ah dope. either way peach got better.
sheik's needles have much more lag, fair is weaker, and bouncing fish is weaker.
greninja's usmash is laggier and riskier.
lucario's up b is super laggy now.

A lot of our hard match-ups got a bit easier so whatev, I'll take it lol

Yoshi who is also tough for peach got slightly nerfed too.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Someone should probably deconfirm the claim that our nair lock doesn't work anymore. At least IIRC, I've heard conflicting results on that.

 

[Meru.]

Well according to @ HAMnEGGS you can still do it, but I personally cant do it anymore. The same to get up when I hit them with the Nair sourspot. Not that it matters that much anyway since nobody is eeeeever gonna pull this off.

You can still do stuff like Turnip Dthrow > Footstool > Float drop > Fsmash though.

 

[EOE]

The N-air lock is unaffected by the patch, afaik. I've been able to replicate it exactly as in 1.0.3.

Also, can Peach open/close her Parasol much faster now? I recall it having a lot of cool-down in 1.0.3, but not entirely sure.

 

[HAMnEGGS]

I've been doing some preliminary testing on the WiiU, and I haven't been able to do the NAir lock combo properly.

I haven't played the 3DS version since the WiiU version came out, but last I played it it worked on various members of the cast.

In the WiiU version, I only briefly tested it on Marth and it did not work properly. Throwing the turnip downward knocked home away from Peach instead of under (which is what happens on the 3DS) making it very difficult to footstool unless I have perfect forward jump momentum.

I'll do some more testing tonight and report back with my findings.

 

[busken]

I think the biggest nerf was the removal of the instant turnip pull from ledge as Peach's turnips do so much for her in terms of approach, pressure, edge guarding, combos, OoS , etc that getting turnips can be punishable making it harder for her to abuse her unique, and royal qualities.

 

[HAMnEGGS]

As many people already know, the 0-death combo No longer works on the wiiU version, but will Still work on the 3ds version due to which direction her turnip dthrow sends you.

I can post videos displaying this if requested.

 

[HAMnEGGS]

I just came back from my first sm4sh tourney over the weekend. Overall, Peach is a much better character with tools to be able to deal with many members of the cast. As she evolves, I can only imagine that she will close the gaps on her bad match ups, or are the very least, keep up with them.

 

[EOE]

Her Turnip shenanigans do still work on the WiiU version with slight variations to how they are performed. I'm working on a video to show this, as well as another N-air lock setup I found last night.

 

[Meru.]

Bumping this thread.

So apparently Peach did get a change after all according to the Character Patch thread in the Competitive Discussion section. http://smashboards.com/threads/luca...notes-17th-19-30.406319/page-19#post-19454998

Peach
-----
Jab2
hitbox 1
size 2.4 -> 3.0
hitbox 2
size 2.4 -> 4.0

Which basically means jab 2's range has been slightly increased. It's an EXTREMELY modest buff though barely noticable by the human eye. Ftilt and Jab2 do seem to have equal range now. Yay?

 

[Macchiato]

Yay?

Yaaay

 

[pokio55]

Had no clue that this thread had even existed! Thanks
:]

 

[Meru.]

The patch is out.

Post any changes you find here.

 

[Pando]

No changes for Peach besides some random frame speed multipliers and bits on non-attack moves that I have no idea what they mean. (These changes normally aren't stuff anyone would be interested in.)

From http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-4

She truly is the character that the balance team forgot.

Or maybe she was already perfect

 

[HoodsxX]

Did anybody look into shield stuns for her? It got buffed universally, so we should check to see what she can do on people's shield now compared to pre-patch. I'm not able to check atm. But ya'll should check it out.

 

[Pando]

Yeah, the shield stun thing is the interesting part of the patch, and could (COULD, I'm hardly an expert) mean big things.

For one thing, spacing float-aerials on shielded characters got a bit easier, and dair on shield is now also presumably safer. I'd have to actually go test it, but more approach options is never a bad thing.

 

[Meru.]

Peach changes from Dantarion's dumps:

Toad:

• Start-up slightly decreased (11 to 10)
• Duration increased (32 to 35)
• Ending lag slightly decreased on whiff (65 to 63)
• Ending lag decreased on hit (66 to 61)
• Changes apply to both grounded and air versions.
• Ending lag on whiff and hit applies to customs as well. Start-up and durations buffs do not.

UpB Custom 3
Frame rate multiplier from 1.8 to 1.6 on last hit. No idea, what it means, will find out soon.

And a few changes in get up attacks from a knocked down state? Will look more into this. It seems to be a universal change.

 

[Pando]

Heh, was just about to comment on the Toad change.

It's... something, at least. The active frame boost is nice, which actually brings it in line with other counters (so no more me complaining to people that it's the worst counter in the game)

It's now like Ike's counter except one frame slower exactly.

 

[Nabbitnator]

The new universal changes might have helped peach with the new sheild stun.

 

[Meru.]

The new universal changes might have helped peach with the new sheild stun.

The shieldstun changes would seriously buff her already strong shield pressure game. According to the patch thread, the new formula is assumed to be damage/1.8 + 3. That would mean her Nair would be -1 now from -6 and her Dair would be either -3 or -2 (the shieldstun is 5.7 so it depends on whether they round it up or down, before the patch it was always rounded down). Thats really insane! Dair to Nair would be impossible to interrupt by a Nair except by maybe Sheik and Luigi.

But of course, the formula might be incorrect.