Peach's Changes, Buffs and Nerfs

[Meru.]

I have been noticing we don't have an accessible list of her changes including her buffs and nerfs (mainly from Brawl to Smash 4), so I will try to compile everything we know so far in this post. If there's something missing or incorrect, please let me know!

BRAWL > SMASH 4
Latest Smash 4 Version

General

• Distance on second jump increased significantly.
• Ledge Floating is still in (immediately landing on back on the stage from the ledge by pressing float when jumping to the stage)
• Glide Tossing has been removed in this game.
• Floating now emits sparkles from the bottom of her dress, like in Melee (best buff ever). There is also a sounds effect now when she floats.

Jab

• Decreased range
• Jab 2 now deals less knockback
• Jab > Grab is now much harder, maybe even impossible. Peach does jab 2 when you input grab after jab 1.
• Total damage slightly decreased from Brawl (6 > 5)

Dash Attack

• Drastically increased knockback. Dash Attack is now a kill move at high percents.
• Last hit has increased damage. (4 > 6)

Ftilt

• Decreased knockback on both sweetspot and sourspot.
• Decreased damage. (13 > 7) It always seems to do 7% instead of having three hitboxes with each doing different damage like in Brawl (where it could do 13, 10 or 7)
• Sweetspot and sourspot reversed. It will now kill earlier if you hit with tip of Ftilt (the heel) and later everywhere else.
• Slightly decreased range
• Slightly increased start-up (frame 6 > 7)

Utilt

• Has a sweetspot and sourspot now. Sweetspot is close to her head, the rest is a sourspot with remarkably decreased knockback.
• Decreased damage (13 > 10).
• Slightly decreased range.

Dtilt

• Significantly increased hitstun.
• Dtilt slide is out (lol)
• Damage decreased (10 > 7)

Fsmash

• Now comes in a set order: Frying Pan > Tennis Racket > Golf Club
• Tennis Racket and Frying Pan deal more knockback. Racket does not have to be sweetspotted anymore.
• Tennis Racket and Frying Pan range increased.
• Golf Club range decreased.
• Stays out three frames less long and has three frames more lag (which means you're open for six more frames)

Usmash

• Sourspot damage (8 > 12) and knockback increased significantly.

Dsmash

• Hits connect reliably now. It does around 13 damage usually.
• Increased knockback (but it barely kills)
• Maximum hits increased to 5, so the hitbox is out for longer.
• Very slightly increased ending lag (by 2 frames)

Toad (Neutral B)

• Spores deal more knockback if you with the hitbox close to Toad.
• Toad turns around when hit from behind.
• Custom move 1 - Grumpy Toad: Toad automatically shoots spores and does not need to be activated by a counter attack.
• Custom move 2: Toad puts the opponent to sleep.

Peach Bomber (Side B)

• Start-up decreased significantly (22 > 15).
• Bounces off shields. Its very safe now.
• This move is actually usable now!
• Damage decreased (15 > 10)
• Custom move 1 - Rising Bomber: Peach bomber also travels a bit upwards instead of only sidewards.
• Custom move 2: Peach puts a flower on the opponents head when it hits. The flower gradually depletes the opponents health slightly (it works like poison). Decreased range in exchange.

Parasol (Up B)

• Hits connect very reliably now.
• Open Parasol has increased knockback.
• First hit of Up B has noticably increased knockback.
• Custom move 1 - Super Parasol Jump: Drastically Increased height, but leaves Peach in a fast fall at the end of the move (you cannot open Parasol). Has no hitbox.
• Custom move 2: Everytime Peach opens her Parasol, she goes up a little bit (this increases her recovery). She can open it up to four times until she cannot open it anymore and drop in a fastfall.

Turnip (Down B)

• Turnip pluck has increased lag.
• Turnips dont stale, but they do unstale other moves
• Stitchface damage nerfed (32? > 29). Knockback noticably nerfed.
• Can still pluck Mr. Saturn and Bob-ombs. Beam Sword is out.
• Custom move 1 - Heavy Vegetable: Increased lag on plucking turnips, but turnips deal more knockback. Turnips are thrown less far.
• Custom move 2: Her turnips now travels very slow when she throws one. Bounces back when it hits her opponent. Unknown whether it bounces of shield or not.

Nair

• Start-up slower by 2 frames (hits on frame 5 from frame 3)
• Decreased duration of lingering hitbox.

Fair

• Increased knockback.
• Autocancels later. When autocanceled too early, it has considerable lag and is unsafe on shield.

Bair

• Damage decreased (14 > 12)
• Increased landing lag to 18 frames.
• Decreased duration of lingering hitbox.

Dair

• Damage decreased (14 > 11)
• SDI'ing out of mulihit moves (= escaping out of multihit moves) has become much harder, which means it has become impossible to escape out of Dair.
• Increased knockback

Uair

• Her Uair has been replaced. She waves in the air and hits her opponent with a rainbow.
• Has two hits (8% and 2%). The second hit pops them up.
• Hits on frame 10
• Landing lag is 12 frames
• Seems to have low ending lag in the air.
• Great range on top of her. Disjointed.
• Doesn't kill as well as her previous Uair.

Grab

• Unchanged.

Fthrow

• Knockback slightly increased.

Bthrow

• Knockback increased.

Uthrow

• Unchanged.

Dthrow

• Icnreased hitstun, can combo of it at low to middle percents.
• Damage slightly increased (7 > 8)

Final Smash

• Airborne opponents will get dropped down to be forced to sleep.
• Damage decreased up close (40 > 30)
• Now summons three giant peaches instead of many small peaches. Each giant peach heals 20%.
• Opponents can still eat peaches and heal themselves.

PATCH 1.03 > PATCH 1.04
(3DS)

• Aerials ignore stale move negation removed, meaning aerials will now stale again when floated.
• Down B lag and hitstun cancel removed, meaning you cannot cancel aerials, airdodges or hitstun with Down B turnip throw anymore.
• Instant Ledge Turnip Pulling removed.

3DS > WII U
(Patch 1.04 > Wii U changes)

• Turnip down throw now sends her opponents forward instead of under her, making it extremely hard or impossible to footstool afterwards.

BALANCE PATCH (MEWTWO PATCH) 1.0.7
No changes have been made to Peach.

BALANCE PATCH (ROY, LUCAS, RYU PATCH) (1.07 > 1.08)

• Very slightly increased Jab's range. Jab 1 2.4 ---> 3.0 Jab 2 2.4 --> 4.0

BALANCE PATCH (ROY, LUCAS, RYU PATCH) (1.07 > 1.08)

• All characters' spotdodes and rolls have one frame of invincibility reduced.
  Pre patch: invinvibily and FAF* Post patch: invinvibility and FAF
  Peach Spotdodge 3-20 28 ---> 3-19 28
  Peach Forward Roll 4-20 28 ---> 4-19 28
  Peach Backward Roll 4-20 28 ---> 4-19 28
  *FAF = First Actionable Frame aka the frame where your ending lag ends and you can anything again.
• Visual and audio effects have been altered for Fsmash (apparently invincible to the human eye)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Great thread @ M Meru. The nerf on her Fair and Tilts makes me sad though

Is her Bair more like it was in Melee (i.e. crazy good)?

Edit: Isn't there only a total of 3 special moves per direction?

 

[ten Busch]

Is her Final Smash changed? Still hoping that enemies can't eat her peaches now...

 

[Meru.]

Great thread @ M Meru. The nerf on her Fair and Tilts makes me sad though

Is her Bair more like it was in Melee (i.e. crazy good)?

Edit: Isn't there only a total of 3 special moves per direction?

Yeah, I just looked it up and it seems there are only two custom moves and one standard move. I don't know why I thought there were four . Changed it.

Her Bair felt more like Brawl imo. The animation makes the range look smaller than it is, it's pretty big. Knockback seems closer to Brawl as well (which is more than Melee) and I think the ending lag in the air is also unchanged or at least very similar to Brawl. Of course, I have only played for a very short time so I can't be 100% sure.

Is her Final Smash changed? Still hoping that enemies can't eat her peaches now...

Yup. You're not going to believe it but it seems to be nerfed. Damage has been nerfed from 40 to 20 and opponents can wake up quicker. Instead of summoning a bunch of small peaches, she summons around three large peaches that heal 20% each. Opponents can still pick them up. Added Final Smash to the first post.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Perhaps aerial approaches this time around will have to be with Bair and Fair will be saved for offstage/defensive air game...
Maybe she's got these nerfs because of the changes to the ledge mechanics meaning that her offstage game is (probably) going to be huge this around.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

Amazing thread! Excellent work, Yaaay! I'll keep a close eye on it for any updates. : )

Once we get 100% reliable informations, we could use them to update Peach's page on Super Smash Bros. Wiki : http://www.ssbwiki.com/Peach_(SSB4)

 

[TimeSmash]

I don't know if this truly counts, but Dash Attack has "magical" properties now

 

[BJN39]

^ which was likely added so they could keep it's incredibly unrealistically frickin' long brawl range.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ TimeSmash & @ BJN39 : ...which was also likely added in response for Peach's Dash Attack having an insane increase of knockback and now being a kill move.

@ M Meru. : I went to this topic when I saw your reply after I shared Jtails' video. Love to see your post being updated frequently when new data about Peach is found. I also believe the important updates to Peach's moveset in bold are a very nice touch! *thumbs up*

 

[Meru.]

@ TimeSmash & @ BJN39 : ...which was also likely added in response for Peach's Dash Attack having an insane increase of knockback and now being a kill move.

@ M Meru. : I went to this topic when I saw your reply after I shared Jtails' video. Love to see your post being updated frequently when new data about Peach is found. I also believe the important updates to Peach's moveset in bold are a very nice touch! *thumbs up*

Thank you! I'm trying my best to keep the list as updated as possible.

By the way, I am probably getting a Japanese 3DS thursday next week (the 25th) with Smash which means I will be able to test a lot of stuff and complete this list. I'll let you guys know!

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

Thanks to the list @ M Meru. made, I updated a lot of informations on Peach's "Changes from Brawl" on the the Smash Bros Wiki.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Peach_(SSB4)#Changes_from_Brawl


And this is the same list before my updates :

http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Peach_(SSB4)&oldid=581307#Changes_from_Brawl


Overall, I'd say Peach has been definitively buffed overall. Only her Final Smash has truly been nerfed... Which is ironical and hilarious, because it was already awful.

 

[Airgemini]

• Stitchface damage nerfed (32? > 29). Knockback noticably nerfed.

I know about the damage but where has the knockback nerf been noted? Makes me sad.

 

[TimeSmash]

Stitchface only doing 29 is blasphemy

 

[Meru.]

Thanks to the list @ M Meru. made, I updated a lot of informations on Peach's "Changes from Brawl" on the the Smash Bros Wiki.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Peach_(SSB4)#Changes_from_Brawl

And this is the same list before my updates :

http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Peach_(SSB4)&oldid=581307#Changes_from_Brawl

Overall, I'd say Peach has been definitively buffed overall. Only her Final Smash has truly been nerfed... Which is ironical and hilarious, because it was already awful.

Thanks, your list looks very nice! I didn't know Dsmash does more hits and Dash Attack's damage had been increased. Gonna copy some things of your list if you don't mind. :3

I know about the damage but where has the knockback nerf been noted? Makes me sad.

Yup... On stream, Dark threw a Stitch on his opponents who were at around 120%. It barely sent them away, leave alone kill them. I thought I was seeing things but he later confirmed stitchface had definitely been nerfed.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ M Meru. : Thank you so much! Glad I could help you as well!

Also, could you please link us to Dark's Twitch video involving the Stitchface? I'd love to see the nerf with my own eyes. ;w;

 

[Airgemini]

Yup... On stream, Dark threw a Stitch on his opponents who were at around 120%. It barely sent them away, leave alone kill them. I thought I was seeing things but he later confirmed stitchface had definitely been nerfed.

That sucks. But at least 29% is decent. Still can use it to get into killing percents.

 

[TimeSmash]

That sucks. But at least 29% is decent. Still can use it to get into killing percents.

Which could now be potentially 160-180% due to this vectoring/hitstun shuffling thing :\

 

[P.J.☆]

Stinks that stitch got nerfed, buuutPeach ddoesn't really need it now since she Dash Attack and Peach Bomber can now act as reliable kill moves outside of FAir. And with Fsmash being in orderPeach can now reliably use Golf Club. #TopTier

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

I completely agree with you, @ P.J.☆ !

@ M Meru. : I still really wish to know the Twitch video with stichface being nerfed so I can add it to Smash Bros wiki.

Also, I found another nerf involving Peach's Final Smash : It's range has been decreased!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npk7Fk8e40g&t=1m13s

Notice how Daisy did not fall asleep? ...And two peaches fell right next to her...

 

[Maester]

I may have overlooked this but can you still slide and throw turnips?

 

[Delphinus]

I completely agree with you, @ P.J.☆ !

@ M Meru. : I still really wish to know the Twitch video with stichface being nerfed so I can add it to Smash Bros wiki.

Also, I found another nerf involving Peach's Final Smash : It's range has been decreased!


Notice how Daisy did not fall asleep? ...And two peaches fell right next to her...

Whether the enemies fall asleep or not has nothing to do with where the peaches land really, it's just the distance they are from Peach when the final smash hits. Honestly, after watching that, I'm still not happy they nerfed what was already one of the least impressive final smashes in Brawl, but I'm guessing it's because few characters have a final smash that can cover all of Final Destination, and the few that do, generally only KO at higher damage.

As is, if you get it when your enemies are at high-ish damage and use it when they aren't all the way across the stage from you, it still seems like you have enough time to eat all/most of the peaches and get a good KO opportunity on one opponent, or mostly avoid the peaches and attack two opponents. In Brawl, even on a fairly simple stage, it's hard to eat even half of the peaches and still have time to launch an attack before they wake up. Then again, as in the video, if one opponent is far away, they can get a free KO off your final smash, which isn't good. But I only play with items on when I'm just having fun with my friends, and Peach is otherwise buffed overall, so I'm not going to make a big deal over her final smash.

 

[Airgemini]

I may have overlooked this but can you still slide and throw turnips?

Unfortunately no. Or at least not that we know of yet, lol.

Also, I found another nerf involving Peach's Final Smash : It's range has been decreased!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npk7Fk8e40g&t=1m13s

Notice how Daisy did not fall asleep? ...And two peaches fell right next to her...

I'm sorry, but this is disgusting lol.

 

[Maester]

I completely agree with you, @ P.J.☆ !

@ M Meru. : I still really wish to know the Twitch video with stichface being nerfed so I can add it to Smash Bros wiki.

Also, I found another nerf involving Peach's Final Smash : It's range has been decreased!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npk7Fk8e40g&t=1m13s

Notice how Daisy did not fall asleep? ...And two peaches fell right next to her...

That is really disgusting. I would love to know what exactly they were discussing before making these changes :/

 

[Gerpington]

Thanks, your list looks very nice! I didn't know Dsmash does more hits and Dash Attack's damage had been increased. Gonna copy some things of your list if you don't mind. :3

That is really disgusting. I would love to know what exactly they were discussing before making these changes :/

Yup... On stream, Dark threw a Stitch on his opponents who were at around 120%. It barely sent them away, leave alone kill them. I thought I was seeing things but he later confirmed stitchface had definitely been nerfed.

"Oops we made a female near top tier let's bring her down to passably okay."

And then accidentally ban her from for glory. I swear I bet Mimi works for the balancing team. She never did care for peach.

 

[Raven_Peach]

"Oops we made a female near top tier let's bring her down to passably okay."

And then accidentally ban her from for glory. I swear I bet Mimi works for the balancing team. She never did care for peach.

Sadly noone of them has ever cared much for Peach, just look at how she's been treated throughout the years. :/

 

[Gerpington]

Sadly noone of them has ever cared much for Peach, just look at how she's been treated throughout the years. :/

Super princess peach was literally about pmsing to kill enemies. Sexism is strong in this one.

 

[Meru.]

@ M Meru. : I still really wish to know the Twitch video with stichface being nerfed so I can add it to Smash Bros wiki.

I just tried finding it, but sadly the stream hasn't been recorded.

Also I'm so glad we don't fight with final smashes on cause Peach would have sucked so badly LOL. Her final smash was in dire need of buffs, what masochist would ever think of nerfing it?!

 

[Raven_Peach]

Super princess peach was literally about pmsing to kill enemies. Sexism is strong in this one.

Yes and also the mainstream games keep regulating her to the role of damsel in distress, the NSMB series for example, there she was planned to be playable but they ran into problems getting the game to handle her dress properly and instead of solving it they went with double Toads because it was easier for them.

3D World was her first playable appearance in 25 years and she almost didn't make it there either.

 

[Gerpington]

Yes and also the mainstream games keep regulating her to the role of damsel in distress, the NSMB series for example, there she was planned to be playable but they ran into problems getting the game to handle her dress properly and instead of solving it they went with double Toads because it was easier for them.

3D World was her first playable appearance in 25 years and she almost didn't make it there either.

You're forgetting smash and Mario RPG but yeah, I get your point.

 

[Raven_Peach]

You're forgetting smash and Mario RPG but yeah, I get your point.

Those games were spinoffs though, I didn't forget those

 

[Gerpington]

Those games were spinoffs though, I didn't forget those

Good spin offs> good main series.

I swear mario spin offs tend to be better than the main series. (imo)

 

[Raven_Peach]

Good spin offs> good main series.

I swear mario spin offs tend to be better than the main series. (imo)

I totally agree with you there, if they actually tried something different with the main series for once then maybe I'd like them more.

 

[Gerpington]

I totally agree with you there, if they actually tried something different with the main series for once then maybe I'd like them more.

I honestly think they should focus on the Mario & Luigi series. Games with plots that aren't complete butt.

I know they can't do more with Mario RPG (boo SE boo), but they can you know, make say...Paper luigi? You know, the game Thousand Year door kept teasing? I'd be so down with them making that side story into a full fledged game and make the events more humiliating to luigi then he lets on.

Idk The Mario & Luigi series has always been solid and still solid, but Paper mario sticker star was a joke compared to it's predecessors and they should really bring that series back to its former glory. I honestly only bought the game so they wouldn't think we didn't care about that series. We do, just not that one because it's bad.

And that is my rant about side games. Lets get back to peach.

I am really glad to hear she is at least somewhat better in this game. (though everyone is) I guess we won't know how good until we get play testing ready, rocked, and loaded.

 

[Raven_Peach]

I honestly think they should focus on the Mario & Luigi series. Games with plots that aren't complete butt.

I know they can't do more with Mario RPG (boo SE boo), but they can you know, make say...Paper luigi? You know, the game Thousand Year door kept teasing? I'd be so down with them making that side story into a full fledged game and make the events more humiliating to luigi then he lets on.

Idk The Mario & Luigi series has always been solid and still solid, but Paper mario sticker star was a joke compared to it's predecessors and they should really bring that series back to its former glory. I honestly only bought the game so they wouldn't think we didn't care about that series. We do, just not that one because it's bad.

And that is my rant about side games. Lets get back to peach.

I am really glad to hear she is at least somewhat better in this game. (though everyone is) I guess we won't know how good until we get play testing ready, rocked, and loaded.

I was talking about Peach the whole time but I know what you mean

 

[Gerpington]

I was talking about Peach the whole time but I know what you mean

Gurl come fieght me in real life fox no items final destination.

 

[Raven_Peach]

Gurl come fieght me in real life fox no items final destination.

:O

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Peach's final smash is so bad it's better to let the opponent hit her with theirs than to use it.

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

@ Gerpington & @ Raven_Peach : Be careful, guys! We're talking about Peach's buffs and nerfs here. XD Perhaps we could create a "Peach Social Thread".

@ M Meru. : Awww, this is unfortunate. But thank you anyway. ^^

@ Delphinus : Don't worry. I am perfectly aware the huge peaches' position is random. I was only disgusted, like everybody else, that the peaches fell right next to Daisy, whom did not fall asleep.

Daisy could simply steal both peaches (recovering 40%) and one or two KOs from Peach while she ends her Final Smash. Heck, any other (skilled) opponent could stay airbone or just run away from her before proceeding to eat the three peaches.

Peach's Final Smash has truly been severely nerfed. However, I am glad I am mostly playing without items. From a competitive stance, only her Turnips have been nerfed. Overall, Peach has been notably buffed. Her Dash Attack, for example, almost feels like Zelda's Lightning Kick. <3

 

[TimeSmash]

Sooo Peach can't glide toss or AGT??

 

[Meru.]

From a competitive stance, only her Turnips have been nerfed.

Her Fair nerf hurts a lot too imo. Sure, we can still autocancel it, but the loss of an instant autocancel and lagless Fair is quite painful. Other than that I'd say Utilt is pretty crippled now but I personally didn't use the move much in the first place. Other than that I think she has been somewhat buffed, but so far I personally don't think she has been buffed A LOT, she's just slightly better maybe. Anyway, this is a new game and there's still a lot to discover with her.

Sooo Peach can't glide toss or AGT??

Nope, it's completely out.