Peach vs. The Condom (Sheik)

[EdreesesPieces]

What's not to love? peach is the best :D

 

[Husband]

Mike, I massively love peach!

 

[Pikaville]

You forgot to add that sheik can easily catch and throw and catch again(very quickly i might add)Peaches turnips.My mate Zac who plays peach got owned with his own sick turnip by me.It was the greatest moment of my smashing life.

 

[RedSoxFan3]

Well since no one answered my question I'll ask it again.

I've been having trouble against shiek, because it seems like the ftilt breaks through all of my moves. I find it nearly impossible to hit my opponent when they space that ftilt perfectly so I can't shield grab. I've tried spot dodging, but I usually just get jabbed. I know it's a really simple and annoying tactic, but I don't know how to deal with it.

I'm sure there's a pretty simple way to beat it, but I just don't seem to see it for some reason.

 

[Yuna]

Don't... shield... grab... so... much!!!!!

People are obsessed with shieldgrabbing. And it's like if they're unable to shieldgrab everything their opponents do, they'll die or something.

Don't always shieldgrab, especially not if you notice it's not working! Also, remember that you can crouch-cancel every single one of Sheik's tilts and her outstreched limbs will let you dsmash her!

You have to have actual mindgames as Peach. Run forward and wavedash back to mindgame them into spamming f-tilts and dashattack them, bair them and spot-dodge or run away so that their shieldgrab will miss and you can turn around and grab them or dashattack them, etc.

And don't shieldgrab so friggin' much. You're not Sheik, your grabs will not give you tons of damage and it's not worth it. Only shieldgrab if you can figure out their play (fair to dodge/fair to single jab/fair to double jab).

And if all they do is randomly tilt you when you approach, wavedash backwards as I told you earlier or learn to play around with turnips. Also, DI. If you DI the f-tilt, unless you have almost no damage at all, they won't be able to fair you.

If they like dashattacking, crouchcancel.

 

[RedSoxFan3]

Umm...

They should always be able to fair off an ftilt, I think you mean won't be able to uair.

 

[Yuna]

It depends on how much damage you have. If you have enough damage to die from the fair, DI:ing the f-tilt will make it impossible to fair.

 

[RedSoxFan3]

Then that would be at least 100%. You said ridiculously low.

 

[Yuna]

No, I said almost no damage at all. Of course, I count around 50% as around no damage at all since you can never ever die from this as Peach (unless you get spiked). DI:ing it and airdodging should make it impossible for Sheik to fair you.

 

[Wife]

My philosophy vs Sheik is you should wait, and watch her, to see what she does.

In fact that's how I think a lot of matchups should be approached. Wait and watch. Let your opponent make the mistake first.

Going in first yourself allows a simple character like sheik to implement her cheap and stupid moves. But peach has even cheaper and even stupider moves, so let the sheik come at you. Then you can shield/sidestep/downcancel her advance and suddenly become the aggresor.

I'm full of Peach advice, and if you're interested in some lessons, you should check out The Newlyweds Tutoring Service, because we just went national, added on some new instructors, and now we're set up at gaming-lessons.com.

We've yet to see an unsatisfied customer. So sign up for a lesson -- don't forget we can come to you.

Step it clux!

 

[RedSoxFan3]

yeah Peach has the dsmash.

The Dsmash takes care of a ton of mistakes.

However waiting and watching is what I do mostly anyway. Things usually don't go as well for me when I start going on the offensive, unless I'm fighting space animals or other projectile spammers like Doc, Link or Samus.

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, but Sheik is so cheap that if you miss her completely or she shields a dsmash (depending on spacing), she can fair you.

 

[RedSoxFan3]

You can say that about any move.

 

[Yuna]

No you can't. Some moves are impossible to punich. Sheik's spaced f-tilt for one.

 

[LowRoad75]

Hmm some nice tips here. Gonna have to use em for the upcoming tourney I plan on attendin. Kinda sad none of my buds here plays Shiek so I have minimal experience against her and I know I am gonna encounter a Shiek somewhere in it, if not my first match. And I do agree peach needs a different strategy for jus about any char she faces.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

No you can't. Some moves are impossible to puniSh. Sheik's spaced f-tilt for one.

Well, that's technically punishable by shield-throwing a turnip, but yeah, you need to have one. :/

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I've found something that is very helpful in repatedly edgeguarding Sheik's laggy Up+B. Since more Sheik players seem to be becoming accustomed to CC'ing the dsmash edgeguard (so they get sent in instead of out), I've managed to find another method. If Sheik is close enough to you, you can DD into her, turn around, and grab-fthrow. Peach has quite a capacity to grab people inside her body frame, amking this quite possible. If you time your ledge climb correctly you will have ample time to do this.

 

[Jennuh]

I like this thread. =] Lots of helpful information that I needed. Going to have to put some of these to work against a Sheik player I know. ^^

 

[K1T3]

Good strats Ryoko. I think if the shiek is a little late on the follow up from the downthrow you can just tap dodge to not get hit in the same fashion as from fox's up throw to upair.
You should make a jiggs match up... whenever I counterpick mutecity the sheik player somehow is always quite good with jiggs also so changes characters.... and that's just not fun.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

All right, I'm actually trying to update this shiz now after spending almost the entire day playing M2K's Sheik. Who knows, maybe we can get some video footage, and I even have the PAL version to play with. The topic post has been updated with new text and such, and hopefully when I feel like it I'll be updating it with important topics such as:

Sheik's short hop needles (AKA needle canceling, SHN). Good lord, this seems to give Sheik huge advantage every time she does it.
Edge guarding from both sides. Sheik definitely has another edge on Peach in this department.

 

[RedSoxFan3]

All right, I'm actually trying to update this shiz now after spending almost the entire day playing M2K's Sheik. Who knows, maybe we can get some video footage, and I even have the PAL version to play with. The topic post has been updated with new text and such, and hopefully when I feel like it I'll be updating it with important topics such as:

Sheik's short hop needles (AKA needle canceling, SHN). Good lord, this seems to give Sheik huge advantage every time she does it.
Edge guarding from both sides. Sheik definitely has another edge on Peach in this department.

If only you could do something this good with the character matchups on the space animals. Great stuff in this guide. Hell I'd say I do better against Marth then I do against the space animals. I need some work on avoiding the Fox's shine and those SHL.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

If only you could do something this good with the character matchups on the space animals. Great stuff in this guide. Hell I'd say I do better against Marth then I do against the space animals. I need some work on avoiding the Fox's shine and those SHL.

Oh, and if Sheik really is spamming well-spaced ftilts that much against you, dtilt to counter and punish that ****. Goodness gracious, it's like that move was made to fight Sheik.

Other ftilt answers include fsmash, but that's too slow to really use against anything except grab attempts. You can also shield throw turnips if you block the ftilt. The only move Peach has that matches Sheik's ftilt in reach in the second hit of A,A (though the first hit, ftilt, and dtilt come close). Ftilt is a pain to get past, but Peach thankfully has options. Not the least of which is running away and pulling turnips

 

[icy_icicle]

Thanks for this guide Ryoko. You have no idea how much it helped. At all. Now, if only there was something like this against a waveshining fox, as that's my worst matchup as of now...stupid waveshine Upsmash combo...

And...why's Shiek a condom? Her funny hat? The girls from Beuxbatons in that one Harry Potter movie had condom hats too. XD

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Sheik disambiguation

 

[Cort]

lmfao @ sheik condoms.

edit// This topic is quality.

 

[Matsuki222p]

This guide was awsome ryoko, thanks i know my matches with shieks from now on will be much better!!

Edit:I wanted to know if peaches nair outprioritizes shiek's fair? Peaches fsmash is more useful then people credit it for, I've battled a lot of good ganons and it screws with their fair as she bends back a bit and it also outprioritizes it.

 

[ZeldaFreak0309]

About DL64...

Yes, the stage itself is huge and allows Peach to live forever, but a Sheik that hops around on the platforms is a PAIN to fight, because Peach's double jump is so slow and it's too hard to keep up with a fast Sheik. For me at least, FD seems like a much better stage to fight Sheik on than DL64.

That being said, if DL64 does come up and the Sheik knows how to use the platforms to her advantage, how should you play?

 

[RedSoxFan3]

You should try playing Ice Climbers vs Shiek at DL64 when Shiek is doing this.

I call it platform camping. It's so funny to watch yet so annoying. Drop down, double jump fair at same time, double jump bair and then shiek lands right back on the platform. It completely takes away ground game from Climbers.

 

[nookrulz]

What would be a stage counterpick priority list for this matchup? Obviously DL64 is out, and Mute City is obviously 1st priority. Assuming Mute gets banned, though, where do you take Shiek? DK64? Jungle Japes? Input please!

 

[RedSoxFan3]

If shiek sits on the platforms, that means you get free turnips. DL64 is still a good option. Don't forget about trading hits with the nair, or using the uair. The uair is nice, because Peach leans back and has a hitbox that's pretty far from her main body. Kinda like her double slap. For Ice Climbers this is a pretty good tactic, cause Ice climbers have like one decent aerial, but Peach has five and one of the better ones is the uair. Shiek also has a crappy down air. I haven't dealt with this tactic in this matchup, but I definitely think that this is still Peach's stage and that you are only one step behind beating this tactic. Peach has enough tricks to deal with just about anything.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

As far as stages, I don't like FD vs. Sheik at all. No platforms = easy target for edgeguarding. DL64 is a good option, DK64 also because Sheik has problems with sweetspotting. In fact, any stage that gives Sheik problems with recovery is a good stage to pick.

 

[Rockin]

Just one question, Ryoko. If faced with a Shiek in FD, will a more offensive style of play work on a Shiek? You know, like up to a point where she'll have a hard time attacking back?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Just one question, Ryoko. If faced with a Shiek in FD, will a more offensive style of play work on a Shiek? You know, like up to a point where she'll have a hard time attacking back?

If you can do it in such a way that Sheik can't just grab you out of anything or counterattack you, then yes it would be viable. I strongly support the defensive against Sheik, though.

Oh, and here's a hint of anti-Sheik JUSTICE. Finally got my capture device functioning again.

 

[Sargent_Peach]

Wow, and amazing peach vs. shiek guide. Definetely one of the best character vs. character guides i have ever read. I could use your advice Ryoko on my thread, the Peach vs. Zelda one.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Ryoko, its easy to see you have profound peach knowledge...I'm a marth player and I have abit of trouble against peach, it seems totally against topic but can you give me a few pointers against her?

 

[BigRick]

Tried the matchup from the other side recently... Only thing I gotta say is that I'd rather be Sheik than be Peach lol

EDIT: From a Peach point of view, I'd say that this spaced dtilt thingy is amazing... but as a Sheik I wouldn't try a spaced ftilt against a grounded Peach

 

[RedSoxFan3]

It took a long time after reading this thread, to experience exactly what the dtilt does that's so great. If the spacing and timing of the move is just right, you'll dodge the ftilt and then nail shiek with the dtilt. I've only done it a couple times, because no one in my crew plays Shiek.

Previously my only way to combat the shiek ground game was the occasional surprise dash dance to dodge the ftilt or dtilt, and then a well placed CC, but these are usually inherently obvious counters and most opponents seldom leave something like this open to attack.

My question is how punishable is the well spaced dtilt if it misses? And what sort of things do most shiek's do against a Peach that uses the dtilt? Do they try to avoid the move, or try to punish you for using it? In my experience, crouch cancels and dash dances can easily be exploited by shiek if you are not careful.

**** it Peach seems to be all about learning matchups to get an even match. Cause it seems everyone you face you gotta make up new mind games.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Youtubeage:
Peach's dtilt vs. Sheik's ftilt
Peach's fsmash vs. Sheik's grab

 

[RedSoxFan3]

wow that's pretty sweet

In that video Peach got the KO off the utilt. At lower percents I understand you can get off a fair. I'm wondering though if they can DI out of the follow up hit depending on the percentage, or if they will be able to combo break the move with nair or fair.

I don't really have any shieks to practice against...

 

[BigRick]

One thing that I would like to bring up in this matchup is Sheik's multiple fair/ftilt combo. I never got hit by this while playing Peach, but I managed to land it a few times as Sheik...

Is there a way to DI out of this? Just in case I gotta face the situation lol