Meta Peach Tactical Discussion: Frame data in first post!

[Meru.]

Yeah I'm really sure now it's exactly the same. Peach is unchanged.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

D-Smash seems to deal 13% instead of previous 14% if I remember correctly testing.

 

[Casual Souls]

I also haven't noticed any changes with DThrow. I had no problem following it up with my usual BAir.

 

[ffdgh]

D-Smash seems to deal 13% instead of previous 14% if I remember correctly testing.

The first hit of her down smash does slightly more/less in damage depending on if your opponent is near her body(13%) or hit by the end of her dress(14%).

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

The first hit of her down smash does slightly more/less in damage depending on if your opponent is near her body(13%) or hit by the end of her dress(14%).

Ah, I see. My mistake, I guess.

 

[XinShot]

idk if I tested this properly but in the pre-patch 3DS version sweet spotted up smash from a jumping Mario killed at 95% but post patch on the Wii u kills at 91%

edit: 3DS has higher ceilings nvm

 

[deepseadiva]

Anyway, despite Peaches lack of changes for herself... the high tier nerfing benefits her very much. Diddy now seems bearable (as opposed to futile), and Sheik's bair (and thus total KO power) being lessened put Peach as very interesting.

Would anyone else agree Peach has even matchups with Diddy/Sheik/Rosalina/Zero Suit Samus?

If so, I think we might have a solid main here!! :D

 

[Dkdudeman]

Her matchup with Diddy and Sheik is probably one of the main things holding back her spot in the tier list.

And I wouldn't quite agree with the even ZSS-Peach matchup, but that might just be due to me playing against tricky Zero-Suits.

 

[Meru.]

I don't really agree with Sheik being even. It's nice her Bair kills harder than before now, but a lot of the thing that gave Peach trouble are still in. It's very doable though, only slightly in Sheik's favor. Sonic should be even now too. He was arguable somewhay evenish already, maybe it was a bit in Sonic's favor, but the Bthrow nerf should help A LOT. This move killed me most of the time. I can avoid his other **** fine. Spindash damage nerf is nice bonus too. Diddy is very likely even now.

Other than Sheik I can't really think of anyone she really loses to.

 

[Villi]

Setting one of your shoulder buttons to jump should make it a lot easier to Usmash OoS.

You can slide your thumb from Y -> A to do an easy Usmash oos. It's a very useful tech for getting buffered aerials out (except for uairs, since those turn into usmashes.)

 

[Casual Souls]

How do you guys deal with zoners/projectile spam?

I've been having a really tough time against characters like Link, Samus, Robin and Mega Man because it's hard for me to approach them.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't think Sheik is even imo - she's still got Needles which rack up damage and make approaching/recovering difficult, not to mention a fast Fair and dangerous Up Smash/Uair/Side B complete with Up + B trickies which make her hard to edgeguard/can score early kills (especially with Rage). I'd much rather fight Rosalina/ZSS over Sheik

Other than Sheik I can't really think of anyone she really loses to.

I'd say Mario, Captain Falcon, Fox, and in particular Pikachu are candidates for match ups that aren't even/in our favour.

Luigi is absolutely a bad match up for Peach...a very unpleasant character to have to fight.



Edit: Talking of Sheik has reminded me (not going to make a thread as it probably doesn't warrant it)


Just a friendly tip to Peach's out there if you don't already do it - next time you find yourself caught in a string (i.e. Shiek's Fair) or your opponent is chasing you after you've been hit/whilst you're trying to land, try using Bair to avoid attacks!

Bair causes Peach is shift backwards and thus move her hurtbox back as well. I've found that on multiple occasions that using Bair is a much, much better option than airdodging if you're trying to get away from an oncoming assault since 1) you can actually avoid follow ups your opponent may attempt and 2) airdodging can either be something your opponent expects (and thus punish you for) or causes you to lag a lot more than if you used Bair should you land (again, leaves you open for punishment).


The idea of using Bair to avoid attacks isn't new - it was discussed back in Brawl and LanceStern in particular publicised the potential use of Ground Floating Bairs or 'Wasping' as he called it to avoid attacks. I just felt like posting a friendly reminder - I've never been very convinced on the Ground Floating version (particularly not in Smash 4 since Bair is now laggy and it doesn't shift you as far back as it did in Brawl) but I've found using Bair in the air/when trying to land/to avoid follow ups is surprisingly effective (especially since follow ups are more common due to increased hitstun in this game). Give it a try sometime!

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

No I think mario , pika and fox are mostly even.
But you sure about bair? I always thought of it as having to small of range, a lot of lag and not being the greatest option to KO.
I mean I use it, but not in the way you say, can it really be that helpful?

 

[DrROBschiz]

I dunno

You guys say she hasnt changed but she FEELs better somehow

Everything seems... slightly faster. I know I am whiffing far less AND there is SOMETHING going on with the NAIR

Seriously. I had a horrible time hitting with it before and now not only can I land it but it sweetspots easier and hits WAY harder.

There has been some range and hitbox adjustments guys.

 

[Morrigan]

You just got better.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Just a friendly tip to Peach's out there if you don't already do it - next time you find yourself caught in a string (i.e. Shiek's Fair) or your opponent is chasing you after you've been hit/whilst you're trying to land, try using Bair to avoid attacks!

Bair causes Peach is shift backwards and thus move her hurtbox back as well. I've found that on multiple occasions that using Bair is a much, much better option than airdodging if you're trying to get away from an oncoming assault since 1) you can actually avoid follow ups your opponent may attempt and 2) airdodging can either be something your opponent expects (and thus punish you for) or causes you to lag a lot more than if you used Bair should you land (again, leaves you open for punishment).


The idea of using Bair to avoid attacks isn't new - it was discussed back in Brawl and LanceStern in particular publicised the potential use of Ground Floating Bairs or 'Wasping' as he called it to avoid attacks. I just felt like posting a friendly reminder - I've never been very convinced on the Ground Floating version (particularly not in Smash 4 since Bair is now laggy and it doesn't shift you as far back as it did in Brawl) but I've found using Bair in the air/when trying to land/to avoid follow ups is surprisingly effective (especially since follow ups are more common due to increased hitstun in this game). Give it a try sometime!

I completely agree. Bair is also the best way to get out of jab combos or avoiding the final (large knockback hit) of multi hit moves.

No I think mario , pika and fox are mostly even.
But you sure about bair? I always thought of it as having to small of range, a lot of lag and not being the greatest option to KO.
I mean I use it, but not in the way you say, can it really be that helpful?

It's not for KOing or even the hit. Rick is talking about as using as a quick momentum/movement change to avoid juggles. It's a fast way to move horizontally. Peach's biggest weakness is slow horizontal speed. Thus, any way to reduce that weakness is an advantage.

 

[DrROBschiz]

You just got better.

I guess so. Everything just "feels" tighter in some ways

I know there was a bunch of hitbox editing with this last patch. Feels like I whiff far less with more characters than ever before.

 

[topspin1617]

Anyway, despite Peaches lack of changes for herself... the high tier nerfing benefits her very much. Diddy now seems bearable (as opposed to futile), and Sheik's bair (and thus total KO power) being lessened put Peach as very interesting.

Would anyone else agree Peach has even matchups with Diddy/Sheik/Rosalina/Zero Suit Samus?

If so, I think we might have a solid main here!! :D

I guess others here disagree, but I also find all of those matches to be fairly even, except maybe for a defensive Rosalina.

For Diddy and Sheik, I already felt it was mostly even, but nerfs to some of their most reliable KO moves solidifies it for me.

ZSS feels even if I'm making heavy use of turnips... I've found they can really mess with her mobility. Also when she's recovering low, Toad is a fun option.

Defensive Rosalina is harder, imo. She's very difficult to approach in general, and she can negate turnips with vB. Gravitational Pull can be baited and punished of course, but a good player won't let that happen too much. Rosalina's aerials are also very irritating to me as Peach, with their hitboxes that last forever... even when I get in on Rosalina she holds her own.

This is all my not-very-professional opinion, of course.

 

[Macchiato]

@ M Meru. Shouldn't these be in the AT section of the OP

There's still Bomber Ledge Cancelling where you Peach bomber and the ending lag cancels on the ledge. It was more useful than brawl but should still be here.
Jump Cancel Fast Fall

Parasol Ledge Cancel

Platform Float Cancel

 

[Meru.]

Just tested Peach in Training Mode, she seems completely unchanged.

 

[BoTastic!]

Sounds good to me. I've been using ROB less and less because of his uthrow nerf in the Mewtwo patch. I'm starting to have more fun with Peach as of recent.

 

[MJN Pilot]

Ok, I'm not sure this is the right place, but I'll ask anyway.

I've been struggling with Peach neutral game recently. My personal style of play has always been very throw heavy. So if someone is managing to avoid the grabs I find myself in a pickle, since I don't really know what to do in the neutral game.

The obvious thing is to have a turnip, since tossing one OOS is a nice way to get something to capitalize (like a grab or a dTilt). However I don't know what else to do really. I used to space a lot with my floating dair, but I started getting punished for that as there is no hitbox on the top. So how do I win the neutral, so I can get more grabs (or dtilts, but I almost always dash attack by mistake so it's mostly grabs. Any advice?

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

We honestly I feel the neutral game peach has isn't that great in this game. The way I could get in in brawl was jab grab. Something I learned and starting to feel is that nair and Bair are better than I thought. Try to mix some of those if possible. Tbh any character that does anything great out if grabs I stay away from. Turnip city and pure random mix ups including peach bomb. I tent do do better not thinking.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

On another note I decided to start playing competitive again. What's the tea around here?

 

[EOE]

Testing Peach's B-air in training mode.
It causes trip approx. 1 in 7 times (at %s from which the opponent isn't put into tumble state).

However, it very rarely causes trip in an actual match. This is because if the move is staled at all, it won't cause trip (there's no staling in training mode).
So move staling causes the trip rate to decrease. I wonder if this applies to all characters/trips in the game.

Just something interesting I stumbled upon today. o=

Also, if you do happen to hit your opponent with your first B-air of the stock (before it has staled), and you're lucky enough to trip your opponent, you can convert it into a turn-around D-tilt or Dash grab (true combos) > etc.

 

[Meek Moths]

When you float and start a Fair and then stop floating Peach will continue her Fair animation but her crown will return to her head

Mod Edit: moved from seperate thread to Tactical Discussion.

 

[Meru.]

This is not a bug. The autocancel frames of Peach's Fair are on frame 1-10 and 41+ which meansyou can autocancel Fair on the first ten frames. She will enter her Fair animation where she picks up the crown but if you autocancel it during it the first 10 frames, you will immediately cancel the animation without any lag (needless to say there's also no hitbox since the hitbox comes out on frame 16).

(Also please don't make separate threads about small stuff like this. Instead post it in the stickied Tactical Discussion or Q&A thread.)

 

[Kunai KazeKun]

What do you think?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Anyone got any tips of landing the 2nd part of Dash Attack on floaties at high percents? I keep finding the 1st hit pops them up and causes the 2nd part of Dash Attack to miss completely

 

[Meru.]

Anyone got any tips of landing the 2nd part of Dash Attack on floaties at high percents? I keep finding the 1st hit pops them up and causes the 2nd part of Dash Attack to miss completely

Peach, Rosalina, Zelda, Ganondorf (-_-), Dedede (-_-), Sonic.

On these characters Dash Attack seems to whiff more often than not. The only thing you can do is accept it really. It's very hard to space a Dash Attack properly, and even if you want to space it so that you only get the second hit in, you're Dash Attack turns from a frame 6 move to a frame 17 move which isn't exactly ideal either.

I feel the best thing to do is accept the fact that characters will fall out of it and prepare yourself to do a jab or grab or Ftilt or w/e everytime you do a Dash Attack, in case they happen to fall out of it.

It sucks but there's not much we can do about it except for praying fora a buff. I had a bit of hope they would fix her Dash Attack but nope. It seems they want characters to fall out of it. Worst. Design. Ever.

 

[Key313]

Would like for this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIovggXHI_w) and turnips to connect better at close range too instead of passing through them. Only seems to be on the club though. Have had some hits of d-smash connect and they get out to punish it but that is extremely rare compared to these other two.

 

[Meru.]

Only seems to be on the club though.

Tennis Racket whiffs on some characters too. You can see here vs what characters it whiffs.

Have had some hits of d-smash connect and they get out to punish it but that is extremely rare compared to these other two.

Characters tend to fall out of Dsmash if they're airborne. Uair spike > Dsmash never connects properly for this reason. They will fall out after the first hit of Dsmash.

 

[Key313]

Ah. From long ago and it has been pinpointed. Thanks.

 

[Meru.]

Dthrow > Dsmash is a combo on Sheik, Falcon and Fox when you're both at 0%. It does 22% damage (21 on Falcon for some reason) and gives you a free tech chase because they can't do an aerial/airdodge before they hit the ground. It works till about 6%. Rage screws it up so your rage effect has to be minimal, or else they can jump out of it.

 

[ilysm]

So, has anyone started incorporating foxtrot-cancelling/dance trotting/extended dash-dancing/whatever the h*ck people are calling it nowadays into their gameplay? The timing for Peach's comes very easily to me and it's helped a lot in baiting out attacks and punishing with aerials, dash attack, or dash grab. Combined with Peach's already excellent movement options I think this could really help her in the neutral. It's a very underrated tech imo and I'd love to see it utilized in competitive play more often.

 

[Phan7om]

So, has anyone started incorporating foxtrot-cancelling/dance trotting/extended dash-dancing/whatever the h*ck people are calling it nowadays into their gameplay? The timing for Peach's comes very easily to me and it's helped a lot in baiting out attacks and punishing with aerials, dash attack, or dash grab. Combined with Peach's already excellent movement options I think this could really help her in the neutral. It's a very underrated tech imo and I'd love to see it utilized in competitive play more often.

Definitely, its a pretty underrated movement option for peach. Since the "pivot" for the dash timing is so quick, it makes foxtrot cancel into PP Dtilt pretty good. If you think they will approach you in any way possible, do this and then react to whether they tech or not.

 

[miniada]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...1H6Xnh9tcnIDV7MFQ&sig2=hEQM1V-Mtr7rjalldkp7ww were discussing peach and we could use some help

 

[Aunt Jemima]

So, has anyone started incorporating foxtrot-cancelling/dance trotting/extended dash-dancing/whatever the h*ck people are calling it nowadays into their gameplay? The timing for Peach's comes very easily to me and it's helped a lot in baiting out attacks and punishing with aerials, dash attack, or dash grab. Combined with Peach's already excellent movement options I think this could really help her in the neutral. It's a very underrated tech imo and I'd love to see it utilized in competitive play more often.

I use her dance trot a lot in conjuction with that float drop dash dance thing. Baiting things out into floating aerials, dash attack/grab or Peach Bomber is really good. As Phantom said, cancelling it into PP is really good, especially with D-Tilt.

Peach has a super "snappy" dance trot and kinda leans in so she's surprisingly hard to hit during it. The distance she travels with it, while a bit low, is quite helpful as it works perfectly with her attacking range, allowing her to retaliate really well.

D-Throw > Dance Trot is a nice bait as if they airdodge/attack it's a free punish, and if they jump away you can chase them down in the air.

 

[Meru.]

Whats a dance trot

 

[Krayon Kaphonie]

I can't seem to find a Peach main thread so I guess I'll post this here.

I drew this thank you pic to Nintendo for fixing my gamepad. It's some of my most favorite Nintendo characters on it! ^-^