Peach Stage Discussion: Smashville

[Meru.]

I LOVE THIS STAGE!!!

Idk why though.

Btw, isnt stalling banned? Or do you mean Dair camping? In that case turnips or even better: Uair.

 

[Xyless]

They mean, in the second stage, camping the top section of the stage, so you can't do much to him and he can't do much to you. Since that's our better stage against him, CHICKENS can run away LIKE LITTLE GIRL BABIES and pretend like they're actually doing something.

 

[Eddie G]

Lol MK will stall the **** out of her on stage 2. The only really good part of this stage for Peach is stage 1 because of its similarity in structure to Frigate, Green Greens, and Battlefield; all of which Peach can control insanely well from the center. Stage 3 is alright for her, but the tilting has sort of a "Lylat effect" on her ground game in that it has the possibility to throw her rhythm/floating off; there is also the issue with her ability to kill being slightly hindered by it's "FD-like" structure.

Overall it's a solid stage for Peach because of her overall flexibility and ability to control space...against most matchups. Metaknight can use the entirety of stage 2 (and possibly stage 3) to camp her extremely well, but as was said, stage 1 is the portion she controls best.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm not a fan of this stage tbh. Its bearable but I personally dislike playing on here
Its probably because I prefer playing on neutral/regular stages like FD and BF though

The first stage is ok provided you aren't chucked up in the air too much, I find staying on ground below the platforms to work best. Its got really iffy ledges has this stage and the stage boundries are pretty close to the ledge so you can work that in your favour and apply the pressure when edgeguarding

The second stage is blergh, I hate having people run around me with silly lingering hitboxes clinging to the statues. You can get some early kills because of the walk off nature of this place. Not just for the likes of Ness/Lucas/Squirtle though, people can be a bit screwed up when they go into the magnifying glass thingy because they don't actually know how close they are to the stage boundry and their view of their character is limited
Camp the crap out DeDeDe on this section if you get taken here though lol. Hide away on the upper sections of the level. MK sucks here because he'll just dance about at the top

The third stage is like a funny FD. Play like normal I guess. Sections of the stage are raised slightly and the stage tilts iirc so watch ground Floating


What match ups are good for stages like these?

Edit: MK and PT should probably swap places on that list below the description. I dunno, does PT do well there? We can walking grab release Squirtle off on the second stage soooo...I dunno

 

[Xyless]

I based it on Meno's list, so if it looks weird, then it probably is.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Oh yea I know, I saw that bit. Just throwing it out thats all

 

[Xyless]

That's...mostly the point of this topic, which is why I get kind of frustrated with the major lack of discussion that generally happens. No one really seems to mention character-specific matchups anymore.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Its quite a tedious process which I think is the biggest problem. Discussing all the match ups in Brawl is quite a task in itself but when you've got rearrange your thoughts and come up with yet more thoughts for a ton of stages in Brawl, not to mention that helps if you back it up with experience - experience for loads of match ups on a ton of different stages...
...its not exactly very inviting How many times do you play X character on Y stage? In some peoples cases, possibly never

Another problem is that we've never had a very strong stage discussion so imo, no one really knows whether Peach actually does well on these stages or not

I suck at stage knowledge soooooo I'm relying on others to feed me the info :D

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I'll try going here more but who would you not go here with? Id think snake is bad.

 

[Eddie G]

Ike, Marth, and Wario are the main three I don't enjoy playing here.

 

[Metatitan]

Marth I wouldn't be sure about; it could either be great (having fresher Fairs and Bairs thanks to obstacles) or horrible (anytime an obstacle is hit by marth the hitbox is automatically a tipper).

 

[EdreesesPieces]

As Peach, you can never really go wrong with Castle Siege. She has enough playstyles to handle ANYBODY on this stage. Her ability to avoid grabs via float makes the walk off not a huge deal against chaingrabbers like Falco and DDD. This is my counterpick of choice against MK and several other characters.

I like how huge this stage is. What ends up happening is everybody survives a bunch; including Peach, minimizing her inability to kill. In T2 (Transformation 2) she can peach bomb the pillars as well as refresh her moves. In T1, the platforms are basically designed for her up tilt and forward smash combos. T3 is great for bonewalking. I really love this stage. I'm confident against anybody here.

I enjoy playing Marth here because of how big of a stage it is. Marth likes BF and Lylat - smaller stages with tons of platforms. 2/3 of the T's on this stage are HUGE, and the other one is slanted permanently, it's not exactly ideal for Marth. You can plenty of space to run away and play your turnip game on even the first T, unlike BF and Lylat. It's not a counterpick against Marth, it's just better than Smashville. It all depends how you choose to use the stage. marth doesn't have the variety of playstyle Peach has so I think she is the one who has the advantage as long as she adapts the right playstyle. (For example, a Peach can play completely long ranged with turnips and bonewalking, and stay away defensively. A marth eventually has to approach, so he can't quite mix it up as much) This mix up game is excellent for adapting to each transformation as Peach.

You won't find it a good stage if you choose to play the same playstyle on each transformation. The key is to switch it up. Coupled that with the survival/kill thing I mentioned earlier, the small interferences that can help, and the large ceiling, and this is a solid Peach counterpick and IMO the best against MK.

Reasons its good against MK:
-T2 and T3 you will never be gimped by shuttle loop. Anytime you are in danger of being edgeguarded just recover high, MK's jumps are too slow and he won't be able to chase you like he does on Smashville or BF to the top. Plus the ceilling is huge. I got hit by shuttle loop while recovering towrads the top, and DI'd up, at like 160% and survived before. MK player got pissed. It removes Peach's biggest weakness on MK and that is getting back on the stage.

-T2 doesn't even have edgeguarding. MK without an edgeguarding advantage = not so great. Also you can fair kill MK here rather easily since they are walk offs. True he can do the same to you, but now you are even in kill aspect, rather than him having the advantage.

-Camp like a MOTHER on T3. Turnip abuse on MK. There's just so much space, even tornado isnt' that effective, because you have too much space to operate and deal with it.

-T1 makes it hard for MK to approach you becuase of up tilt and f smash, if you hide under the platform. Try to stay on the right side, its favorable for characters with projectiles as they will fall down on the other opponent if thrown forward. Also MK cannot abuse his recovery too much since the stage vertically does not go down too far compared to neutrals like FD.

 

[Xyless]

Good write-up, Edrees. Also..

-Camp like a MOTHER on T3. Turnip abuse on MK. There's just so much space, even tornado isnt' that effective, because you have too much space to operate and deal with it.

To add to this, his tornado also isn't effective because the stage turns far enough that it will mess up his spacing and either end it too soon or leave him too much space below, giving a chance for punishing.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah, that's exactly right! Thanks for pointing that out, I completely forgot (=

 

[Xyless]

Why does it always seem like every time I come back to this it's been a month later? That's it, I'm putting an email reminder up from now on for this, so I'll keep updating (now that it's going to be used in the Guide).

Changing to the next one TOMORROW!

 

[Xyless]

Well I failed at that. Let's see what'll happen.

I got distracted by possibly the stupidest fight ever. And thus, a meme was born.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't really know a great deal about PS2 tbh
The air transformation is not good in my experience however - forces you to be in the air even longer than you want to be and it takes FOREVER to actually get back onto the ground. Characters with good aerials are not good news in the air transformation. Get away from them and do your best to land. Remember, you can rise using Peach Bomber, don't use Parasol cause you won't be coming down for a very long time lol

 

[Xyless]

All right, on to Brinstar for the main discussion. We're really dying for a more legitimate counterpick/advantage/disadvantage/ban list for this stage, because most characters who are on Meno's list have Norfair or another banned stage before it.

Also, if people want to bring up other stages (be "off topic" or whatever), I won't stop them. The discussion on the title is just for the "main discussion".

 

[Metatitan]

This stage is great and bad for Peach all at the same time.

Pros:
-good at avoiding lava via float
-umbrella can actually be a viable attack at times thanks to the stage
-fresher attacks thanks to stage
-easier killing due to kill zones
-Dair becomes more awkward to SDI due to stage's awkward shape (assuming they're grounded)
-D tilt can hit the middle of the stage for freshening attacks
-New ledge option: bombering the flesh to get back on stage
-effective counterpick against linear characters (falco, pikachu, IC's)
-sharking capabilities
-ledge game expanded

Cons:
-ledge-to-stage options reduced to simple options: air jump, get up, ledge attack, roll, bomber back on, and umbrella back on from underneath
-we die earlier
-recovering from below can be interrupted by lava
-bad place to play against characters like mk (still would rather fight them here than RC)
-lava shoots us up vertically above our opponent, where we DON'T want to be

IMO it's one of Peach's best counterpicks and stages overall but it's very character specific as far as who you counterpick against.

 

[Brawlin]

Is Brinstar really a legal stage pick lol? Idk im just curious cause if Peach does well on it, it could be useful to choose sometimes. Sorry about the question but I was just wondering.

 

[z00ted]

Yeah it's legal.
Sometimes I love this stage, other times I can hate it.

Metatian already said it - Peach can die too early.

 

[deepseadiva]

Brinstar is fantastic.

One of my more picked CPs. Stalled fair hitbox on the tentacles is too good.

 

[z00ted]

Ftilt is fantastic.

I used to CP this stage alot too Meno. Everyone bans it against me now.

 

[Xyless]

If I had it my way, both Brinstar and RC would be banned permanently...at least RC.

But that's for another day.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Yeah, Illmatic is definitely annoying on Brinstar!! I like this stage... but primarily in Melee. Not so much Brawl lol

 

[z00ted]

Illmatic is definitely annoying on Brinstar!!

......(Smirk)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I really, really do not understand how to make proper use of this stage

The platforms combined with hits from the opponent lasting longer really mess up my camping, the ground is uneven and you can't run over the jelly bit in the middle so camping in general/with Turnip is hard and limited because you've only got a small stage to do it on, Dash Attack doesn't seem to work as well, tentacles at the sides stall out attacks making it even trickier to recover...

I'd really appreciate some good advice as to what to do on here/who to use this stage against because I've heard it can be a good stage for Peach but minus Uair spamming whenever anyone is on the top platform I have absolutely no idea how to work this stage which is why I think I view it in such a negative light. My main experiences of Brinstar are vs Wario and Marth if that means anything

And I will personally get on a plane and fly over to slap the person that tells me its good because 'you can Peach Bomber the tentacles/jelly'. I dont see anything good about that at all, it just sticks you in the air in lag and then I get Uaired or something :/ Surely simply Jabbing the tentacles/jelly would be a much much faster way of refreshing your moves?

 

[z00ted]

This stage just really work well if your doing the opposite of everything you just said.

It will reward the Peach players who are playing aggressive and want to apply alot of pressure on their oppponents shield. You have to remember that the rugged bottom can also hurt your opponents: and your forgetting a vital key - our float. We can get over that easily and pressure them into that certain area. When the lava comes up it is even more of a rush for an aggressive Peach because you have things poking at your opponents shield from all angles if your playing properly.

I agree with Peach bombing the tentacles - it doesn't help much but it can throw off your opponent here and there. Jab would be much more sufficient because it refreshes your moves allowing you to score quicker kills.

Did you know? We can full hop fair both humps above the ledges on Brinstar?
It can throw our opponents off.

It has its downside - easy deaths but that's also very helpful for killing with Peach.

The stage gets a 9/10 in my opinion. Very good stage to pick against almost any opponent (disregard Wario, Marth, and Metaknight), but can hurt you if you don't stay aware of your sorroundings.

CP this against Snakes, Diddies, and Falcos.

 

[deepseadiva]

Yea, you're gonna have a lot less success on Brinstar if you play a more defensive style, specifically one based around turnips - the stage actively functions against that.

Brinstar heavily favors positioning, like an in-game version of the floor is lava. You get rewarded if your capable of moving from platform to platform. The cool thing about Peach is that, while she doesn't particularly have the airspeed or jump mobility to do that traditionally, she does it though floating; which is an incredibly strong ability.

If you focus particularly on where the opponent is going to land, you can cover that space very well. Floating allows you to be off that space and still be in range.

Bomber as mix-up, jab to restore moves. Yes.

 

[Meru.]

I LOVE this stage!! Definitely one of the best stages for Peach and top tier in my list. The position of the platforms help her and she can do space/annoy people with her float by using those platform. Turnips also help. Lava? No problem, we have a float and a great air game! Tentacles are lovely. Fair stale? Jab the tentacles, bye bye killing problem!

9.5/10. CPing it is never bad, except for maybe MK, but even that isnt even actually bad, there are simply better cps vs him.

 

[Eddie G]

Excellent stage for Peach. I counterpick it against anyone who isn't Marth or MK (Wario is quite manageable). So many opportunities for solid stage control, move refreshment, early kills, and just overall intimidation if you're more of an aggressor. Those are boosts that Peach players simply cannot ignore.

9/10 solely because there are characters who are more dangerous here than she is, otherwise it would have a perfect score.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I dont Counter Pick here at all. However people do it to me. 3 people did it in my past tourny and they all lost there.

 

[Metatitan]

Unless you're mk or jigglypuff I would see no reason to CP peach to brinstar

 

[Peachkid]

Wow... I really must have **** luck on this stage with peach x.x

Like the times I do CP this stage somebody always whips out a pocket MK and proceeds to **** me in my lowered state of confidence... that and I kinda get a little claustrophobic on such a small stage. Not IRL but my mind just goes "Oh **** its a small stage, i can get killed here easy"

Hmm Next weekend is a MK banned tourney maybe I can try CPing it to see how I do or something

 

[Xyless]

Oh, while the discussion is hot:

I'm looking for updated character opinions. At the very least, who you would definitely ban/take there.

Here's the default layout, in case you want to use it.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against:
Might Have an Advantage Here Against:
Might Have Problems Here Against:
Possible Ban Against:
MUST BAN Against:


I never CP there, so I don't know who's good or bad there, other than MK being great there and the little boys being great there.

 

[Nicole]

I dont care for brinstar, but i hate "gay stages" so I'm probably just biased.

I don't know why this would be a good Snake cp though. His explosive **** is harder to see, he kills you at 3% here bc of the low ceiling and small sides, and you risk taking more damage than usual though lava whereas snake doesnt care about damage. PLUS you have less room to avoid grenades + snake aerials (his nair literally covers half the stage) and the stupid tentacles lag out his already ridiculous hitboxes. i have taken a snake that i had beaten in the past here and lost. i wouldn't do it again.

i would cp this against someone like falco though. i cant imagine that he does very well here. maybe cp diddy here? i doubt he likes it. its not bad against olimar either. or ics, but you shouldnt lose to them anyways

i also wouldn't take anyone who has an annoying, spammable bair here (ddd, wolf, kirby, etc). you have less room to avoid it and ******** uneven ground to mess up your groundfloats/tilt heights/dash attacks.

you guys already know not to take chars with magical energy moves here (zelda, ness, lucas, zamus, etc) right?

peach already has the advantage against diddy and olimar and ics...falco i would rather fight on a neutral than risk some random bs happening on brinstar anyway. i just dont think it's that helpful, save for a handful of chars that you'd do fine on a neutral against anyway.

 

[Brawlin]

After i figured out it actually was legal lol i tried it and its pretty solid. I think its a stage that doesn't really hurt Peach but helps her out in areas where she needs it most. Most importantly, like KBizzle said u can restore ur kill moves which is a big plus. And it does actually make a nice counterpick for Falco which is pretty much a good thing. Platforms can make it easier to dodge things like his lazers.

 

[HAMnEGGS]

its kinda 50/50 from my point of view vs. snake. but i agree that this would be more in snakes favour, since he'll probably kill you at like 60%.

but anyway, i wanted to bring up a possible way to look at stages. i personally havent had very many good games on brinstar, even though i've beaten MKs on here before. but i figure you can generalize peach into 2 styles: ground (or footsie) peach, and air (or floaty) peach.

i can definately see this stage being very good for a floaty peach, since uneven terrain can be worked around in the air. i see myself as a footsie peach, so the uneven terrain is always a real killjoy.

where the stage can be split, a few things i see happen to me often
-i run into the wall causing my character to stop moving. this even happens when i dash attack, so my attack doesnt get the momentum needed to actually reach the target, and i get punished for it.
-my dsmash sinks the ground and my opponent is out of range.

it might just be the way i play peach, or it may be inexperience with the stage, but this is just my experience here. gotta contribute what i can right? XD

 

[C.S. Dinah]

You have more ways to recover on a stage like that. In fact I should consider practicing there alot more.

 

[Xyless]

Gonna try to get a little bit more input before I switch, to see if there's any lurkers that have a thought.

(also I have to think of the next stage, recommend something if you want)