Peach on Marth

[RyokoYaksa]

It is mostly agreed that Marth can counter Peach very well, but I honestly think this match-up is quite even (my Anti-Peach awards go to Jigglypuff, DA Dave's Falco, and Ganondorf only). I figured that, with L/Float canceling, triangle jumping, edge-guarding, D-smash, and turnips, Peach could hold her own. And she did, until I met phillybilly at NJ3.

Basically, since I've had very little experience against a Marth, I can use advice for those experienced in this match-up at high level play. I kept getting grabbed and I missed quite a few effective edge-guarding opportunities. I still got caught in a lot of tippers, too. Blah, I suck.

 

[x1372]

peach vs. marth

I'd have to say that peach vs. marth is a game of keep-away mind games. Depending on circumstances, peach can do well with turnip setup attacks. She also is one of the better characters for capitalizing on marth's mistakes. However, if marth makes few mistakes, peach is going ot have a real hard time getting in on him, while if he can dig through a barrage of turnips and corner her she's almost out of luck. Also, his chain throws into tippers and his shffl double fair (I've never actually seen it, though I've seen some fair combos) seem to be inescapable and extremely deadly. At low damage, peach can easily lose at least 40% health to a throw chain... although once she hits about 80%, she's safe until 150 if she can just avoid tippers.

I think that an extremely good marth has the advantage over peach, but one that makes even a few mistakes per life will probably lose. Peach has to concentrate extremly hard to avoid eating tipper shots and stay just out of range of them, either just farther or too close. Its ok to eat a weak hit if it prevents you from eating a tipper.

 

[Scamp]

Bob, I'd just like to point out that your take on every one of Peach's matchups are keep-away mind games.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, I suppose.


Anyway, while it's true that Peach CAN hold her own, this matchup is clearly disadvantageous for her. Obviously if the other Marth doesn't know the matchup well or isn't as good as you you can beat him, but you can't count on that. I like Bob's line: "I think that an extremely good marth has the advantage over peach, but one that makes even a few mistakes per life will probably lose." This is true only if Peach doesn't make any mistakes.

So, anyway, focusing only on high-level Marths here's my take on the points Ryoko made:

L/Float canceling: Against a great Marth, Peach's offensive chances are rare to none. Considering Marth can smack Peach out of the air with higher-priority moves from both the air and the ground, cancelling doesn't really help. Now if you can consistanly get attacks in to cancel, then Marth is gonna see trouble.

Triangle jumping: I'm actually not sure what you mean by this but if it's triangle jumping like in MvC2 then Peach's triangle jump is simply too slow.

Edge-guarding: This is absolutely essential to beating a high-end Marth with Peach. If you let Marth live long lives, then you die. This is IMO the only way to even up the chances against Marth, since you have to outplay him to get him off the edge in the first place. But even so, edge-guarding him is difficult.

D-smash: Marth has no reason to duck against Peach, and getting close enough to D-smash is a problem in itself. Marth doesn't have much to CC either, since he'll be out of range of a downsmash or the attack will be too powerful. (Marth's dashing attack sucks.) However, CCing a f-air at lower percentages can set up some things after the d-smash. You can f-air a CCing Peach out of range of the D-smash, but it's difficult.

Turnips: If you can get these going then your life will be much easier. Trouble is, a good Marth won't let you do this. If he's spacing you correctly, you're going to be in range for a wdashing Fsmash. Or even just a Fsmash. Or maybe just a running throw. Which means you're gambling with your life if you want to pull out a turnip. Even if you do pull some out and start hucking them, Marth doesn't have too much of a problem cutting through them. You may not have seen a double-short-hop-fair-Lcancel but I have and I can tell you you need perfect timing to counter it from the air.

But, of course, I'm talking about Ken-level Marths. Most Marths will have holes to exploit.

 

[shredder]

Figured I could add in something on this discussion considering it used to be my favorite match! Note the "used to be" because it no longer is, and I hesitate to play my Marth against a Peach. This is probably because over the past several months Marth players have been much more common and all of his tactics better known. The absolute main reason I won't do a money match for Marth/Peach is because a good Peach player knows how to DI/avoid tippers at all costs.

Bob knows what he's talking about when he says, " although once she hits about 80%, she's safe until 150 if she can just avoid tippers" but he worded it a bit incorrectly. No Peach is "safe" when she hits 150% but it makes life more difficult for Marth. Basically around this percentage, Marth can't combo Peach anymore with throws, f-air, tilts, anything.

Scamp I like your point also when you say, "Edge-guarding: This is absolutely essential to beating a high-end Marth with Peach. If you let Marth live long lives, then you die. This is IMO the only way to even up the chances against Marth, since you have to outplay him to get him off the edge in the first place. But even so, edge-guarding him is difficult." because it is Peach's main chance to win. Peach has quite a few tricks to edge guard Marth with her backwards float to b-air, veggie tossing, and the basic down-smash from the edge. It all boils down to who can survive longer and this gives a slight advantage to Peach in my opinion because she can recover a lot easier if she DI's well.

The part I disagree with is when Scamp says, "Marth has no reason to duck against Peach" and that's because of his d-tilt. Yet another underrated move in Marth's arsenal. Peach will tend to block or roll towards it, and either case results in punishment against a "high level" Marth player. Which brings me to another point... who are these "high level" Marth players? Do you mean Azen/Isai/Ken or Me/Eduardo/others or just Ken himself?

Btw: Scamp I like that sig now :D And to comment further on it, you were the only friendly person to me at Meleepalooza and multiple early bi-weeklies, and also for buying me food a couple times on our Chicago road trip, so I guess you deserve The Doug's 2004 Nicest SSBM Player Award.
*Hands you a trophy*

 

[Scamp]

Clarifications!

Yes, I forgot about Marth's tilt down A. Kinda funny since I tend to over-use this move when playing with Marth. How about I change it to "Marth has no reason to try to crouch-cancel anything Peach does, and has no reason to crouch while anywhere near her."

Or, even more to the point, "Peach shouldn't get many downsmash opportunities."

Sure Marth can't combo Peach anymore but each hit past 80 percent will send her flying off somewhere. Now you have to get past Marth's general range to get back onto the ground. Each time you guess wrong, you take at least 10 percent more damage and it all starts again.

When I say "high level" Marth players I'm speaking figuratively, which means I'm not really talking about anyone at all. But, for Marth experience recently I've only played a lot against Isai, but I have experience against Ken, TheDoug, Eduardo, and many, many others.


It's nice to get a 2004 award for stuff I did in 2002 and 2003. I'll place it on me mantle.

 

[vidjogamer]

i would say marth definitely has the advantage.
the range and speed is all he needs, let alone the tipper.

but if the peach knows what she's doing then she has a chance.

... g2g.. more on this later

 

[x1372]

Scamp, I don't think peach plays keep-away mind games against EVERYONE... There are exceptions. Fox, falco, sheik on FD, fellow peaches... and possibly samus and the links. However, when peach has the projectile advantage, its only prudent to take full advantage of it.

As for the "safe" at 80%, yes, I meant relatively. The thing is, in most cases marth won't be able to prevent peach from landing. She moves faster horizontally than he does, she can parasol, she can hover, and she can air dodge. Unless marth can completely read the peach's mind, there's little to no chance he's going to hit her as she recovers... and if it does, it sure wont' be a tipper. 150% peach is in trouble because marth can kill with an up tilt, but until then he'll be hard pressed to kill her if she plays her cards right.

And yes, peach needs to follow marth as soon as she knocks him off the edge with hovering back aerials. She generally has a hard time edge guarding him if he comes from below, unless its obvious that he won't survive without a ledge grab (gotta love peach's hover into ledge grab and climb right as marth goes for it).

Peach has to play the spacing game more against marth than against anyone else. Unless you're willing to trade some close-in hits you're not going to win. You have to stay as far as possible until you get your opening, then never get away until you take the hit that forces you off.

At the theoretical perfect level of play, peach would get destroyed by marth. At a high level, it all comes down to who makes more mistakes, because both characters are extremely adept at punishing them.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Triangle jumping: short hopping, and air dodging into the ground. It's pretty essential for getting past Marth's sword. A well placed triangle jump can result in a whiffed f-smash from him.

Thanks for the discussion thus far. I'm a bit discouraged, but I'm not backing down from any match.

 

[Sastopher]

One thing to consider is that unlike other Peach matchups, you can't be afraid to get up close and personal with marth. Often your habits of DIing away, or staying at a slight distance will work out well against you with marth's arsinal of throw chains, tippers, and just plain ol' range in general. The closer you are to marth, the less his moves hurt and Peach still has plenty to work with.

That's not to say you shouldn't still use veggies and play defensively, but be decisive. If you're going to be close to marth, be really close--don't let him outspace you for advantage. If you're going to be far away, then be far enough he can't just chop you at whim.

Also, pay attention to what moves of peach's cancel out marth's moves. Sometimes you can get away with tilting away a smash or using a forward aerial to get through an attack to get close.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

This is a semi-old topic from the MBR for you folks. Granted metagames may have changed just a tad since then, I still find the info helpful. So let's add on to it in the very near future...

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I do have the MOST trouble with this matchup, even more than Sheik and the space animals. I've found, though, that playing mind games with him is the best thing to do, and it shows so much more here than any other matchups. You have to bait him into feeling confident. Make HIM come to you. Then weave your way through his attacks to pop him into the air. That is when Peach can juggle him with up air, and she can easily get him to at least 70%, which is where she can begin to edgeguard him.


It's even a good idea to turn the tables on Marth when you're recovering. He'll be too busy trying to get you back out there to notice that you've switched to the attack on him, and before he knows it, he'll be sent out and be in the same position you were in previously.

Also, try to make sure that, IF you have to be hit, that you have a turnip in your hands when you're sent. That gives you another item to distract him and/or slow him down. Also, when you're on the ground, vary your throwing speeds of the turnips. And if he does grab a turnip, then rush him, because his range and tipper is temporarily gone!

 

[AlphaZealot]

Hmm...from playing Kiraki, Husband, and Azen I've learned a few things about this matchup.

It sux for Peach.

But that doesn't mean you can't win, all you need to do is trick him. I find Peach'z wavedash to be quite effective in this matchup. It will ussually move you just outside Marths sword range so you can go into a dash attack, dash usmash, or float canceled fair to ds/us (although this is hard cause you gotz ta be quick and there ussually aint enough time).

Triangle jumping is obviously an important tactic, but I think one of the most important things against marth is to watch out for being juggled. Avoid being stuck is those stupid uair repititionz (or is that just me?) Marth can be edge hogged easily, and edge guarded easily as well, so look to get gimpy KO'z at low %.

as for every thing else it all comes down to mind games. this matchup is even enough so that whoever has the better mind game will win. Keep in mind what the opponants tendaties are. LIke does he always lead in which his nair, or does he lead in with fair? or does he mix it up? what does he do on defense? does he always try and shield grab when you float cancel (although that is stupid against peach in many cases)? just keeping these things in mind will help out tremendisly.

 

[Boocif]

i have just come to the conclusion that this is the hardest machup for eny two good characters.

marth is just to cheap.you may say that peach has turnups but he just just use the nair and he wins that one.he also as the dtilt for and if u get hit with that ur dead if ur off the edge. also marth can fthrow chain at low %. fsmash or utilt can destry u wen ur comin down with an arial from a flot. and the utilt and fsmash kill u very easy. his aerials have priority and can combo u. so i think peach will never have a chance agenst marth. so this is the ardest mach up ever.

 

[Zoap]

... first of all i believe this match is even or just a little in marths favor. Nair cant be outdone by well timed up smashes. tunips can keep him away from u and make him come to u. he doesnt have alot of options comin back to the ledge so edgeguard for gods sakes. keep outta the air, u just cant get that many float canceled aerials off if the marth knows wat to do. if u get down tilted when comin back(i dont see how u could considerin wit marth u should always sweet spot the edge or come in from high) but if u do just wall bomb back, most ppl get so thrown off by it and panic when they see u comin back. the chain comboes are easy to get outta of if DI'd properly either towards the opponent to avoid the tip or away from to get outta of it. also u can tech the fthrow or air dodge to get out. u should be up above marth ever so utilt shouldnt come into play, and fsmash is just a matter of mindgames and keepin away from it. his aerials are alot better than peachs but peach has a better ground game so keep it too the ground, Nair is good as well it often exchange hits wit his aerials. this isnt such a hard matchup if u play smart and dont rely all on fc and dsmash(although this is very effective when applicable).

I play with alot of marths and i usually am able to 2 stock them after 3 matches. watch for habits and play on them.

 

[UTDZac]

On a sidenote for attacks of the two, the most interesting thing i find to stop hits lovely tipeprs is when he starts the smash, F-tilt. The extra speediness of the tilt will more than likely hit his smash, causing a "tink" cancel of attacks. If marth does it again, rinse and repeat. I find the marth learns to mind game me here by countering on the second. Therefore I have resorted to Spot dodge, WD, Smash or Dodge and grab.

Also, for those of us who dont know exactly how to edgeguard a Marth so he cant grab onto the ledge, would someone mind sharing.

 

[Boocif]

ur stupid

yo mang r u stupid or somthin...

u say

tunips can keep him away from u and make him come to u

i say marth can just shffl nairs and the fly away from him like hes Jesus

u say

if u get down tilted when comin back(i dont see how u could considerin wit marth u should always sweet spot the edge or come in from high) but if u do just wall bomb back, most ppl get so thrown off by it and panic when they see u comin back

i say marth poke goes below the edge(really cheap) and if u get it with it and all u have is up B than all he has to do is edgehog and ur dead and there is nothin u can do about that. "poke dat, poke dat!"

u say

u should be up above marth ever so utilt shouldnt come into play

i say that the utilt can hit u from any ware even if ur be hind him. and once ur hit then ur fed cuz its hard to get down.

u say if u play smart then ul win well i hate to tell u that kinda pertains to everyone so yea i say again this is the hardest mach up in the game. any challengers?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

A good trick when edgeguarding marth involves this mind game. If you go under him he will always, always, always try to spike you (especially if you make yourself look vulnerable or innocent about it) Just be ready for it, or to dodge it somehow, and you can get a free hit on him in the air while he has that long cooldown time from that down air.

 

[cablepuff]

I like to say marth vs jiggly is harder matchup than marth vs peach.

 

[Legion19]

You can't get fancy with Marths, keep it simple. A good Marth will not give a Peach time to pull out any drastic mindgames because a good Marth will know that the best thing for Marth is spacing, and they're not afraid to jump into the fray against their opponent. The best thing to do against Marths, at least imo, is to keep it simple, do not ignore -ANY- of Peach's moves, even the really sucky ones, because they, too, have a purpose. Rack up damage the best way you can and throw him off the side since he doesn't have that great of a recovery, have a turnip follow just in case. Turnip spam him, if he's coming in with a very predictable aerial, Toad him, the spores will still rack up dmg, all you have to do is survive. Learn to spot-dodge the very quick single FSmash strikes and rush in for some damage. Get him -OFF- the edge as -FAST- as you can using the slyest, dirtiest methods you know how.

I would tip this battle in favor of Marth just a little bit, but Peach, though not armed with an extremely long sword, is extremely versatile, so she can stand her ground, it just takes a little more work than her other matchups, I'd have to say Marth probably isn't her hardest matchup, but it definately is one of her tougher ones. I think her toughest matchup would be either Jigglypuff or Gannondorf since Gannon surprisingly has good air priority, and Peach seems to have trouble with opponents that do well in the air, not to mention has -ALOT- of power to his moves. Being her traction sucks, Gannon's NeutralA can be a headache being she'll lag longer than most others. You have to play defensively against Marth basically, when he messes up, -PUNISH HIM- for it.

 

[UTDZac]

I would tip this battle in favor of Marth just a little bit, but Peach, though not armed with an extremely long sword, is extremely versatile...

*Pulls out a Sword* Muahahaha. Heck it could happen Actually ive pulled out a Mr. Saturn 3 times as my starting pull, a bomb once, and a sword twice, Though Ive never had the joy of pulling a Stitch Face to start off with. The scared/cautious look of the opponent is precious

 

[Zanguzen]

if the reason ganon does good against peach is aerial priority, then that jus shows marth does good against peach 2- plus it seems he has more versatility and range in the air- add disjointed sword- more aerial combos- and easy kills + edgeguarding seems to make it really in favor of marth i think

but as for marth v jiggly being harder- that may or may not be true- but i think kishprime was arguing a while back about how its not that unbalanced- especially given the easy wop combos and edgeguarding from jiggly- but no doubt marth just kills both of them lol

 

[cablepuff]

Matchup that are harder imho.

(first character is the rapist, second is the victim with a character that matters).
Game and watch vs Falco.
Ice climber vs sheik
Falco vs sheik
Mario vs Sheik.
Fox vs sheik.


Quoting the best peach in the nation imho.

"This match is extremely close, with my estimations being marth has a .5 or smaller advantage. Most of this advantage comes from the small, relative technical ease Marth has in this matchup compared to Peach (which becomes even more dilluted when both players are highly skilled) and general trend of neutral stages to favor Marth's character more strongly than Peach's. On Dreamland 64, this matchup becomes a +1 favor for Peach instead.

Both sides have to be extremely familiar with this match, because it requires a unique style. Peach has to play extremely defensively, using turnips to force marth into an offensive position. After gaining the initiative, Peach must play agressively, but not haphazardly. It's neccessary to stay close to Marth, but you also have to have patience, especially when Marth is airborne. Marth's aerials come out too quickly, have too much range, and too much priority for Peach to really challange. More-so than other matchups, Peach wins this one with careful play and waiting for your opponent to make a mistake, followed by capitalizing on it well. Peach can float out of shield into a f-air to counter shielded smashes, jump out of shield with a n-air to counter aerial moves that come too close, and use dash attack's priority and near-invincibility to catch Marth as he lands or jumps out of shield. Marth's advantage mostly stems from Peach's lack of range and Marth's ability to keep her at arm's length, with heavy utilization of grabs. She is also of convenient weight to combo with many moves.

Marth is most effective when he kills early, before peach breaks the 120 mark. After that, it becomes increasily difficult to kill her until upwards of 170 or higher, depending on the stage. Marth has strong mind games with his grab, as Peach must DI carefuly or get caught by a tip. Marth can wavedash->f-smash from throws in either dirrection if Peach DI's improperly. I've found the best way to counter this from Peach's perspective is to delay my DI until I see the beginning of Marth's throw animation. Spiking is a viable option against Peach, using invincibility from grabbing the edge and spiking her as she up-b's through Marth, or comboing her off the stage in the air and finishing with a Spike. Up-tilt needs to be used at higher percentages for a kill, if Marth is unable to connect with another killing blow as often happens. Another option for KOing past any of the comboable percentages is using up-b out of shield (turn around while you do it so you up-b away from Peach, hitting her with the back of it). It has remarkable punch when your opponent aproaches the mid-100's.

Peach is most effective against marth when played defensively, evasively, and at times, aggressively. Marth's horizontal recovery suffers when his momentum toward the stage is broken. This includes turnips, or any aerial off the stage. Strong edge-guarding makes or breaks this game for Peach. Marth can avoid most of this with intelligent recovery techniques, such as catching turnips that are thrown at him or using f-b to stall his descent long enough to avoid the danger. In a pinch, Marth can also attempt to spike a Peach that floats out to edge guard him, resulting in a mutual death. Dash attack is a remarkably useful tool against Marth in comparison to some other top tier match-ups against Peach, but you still need to mix it up with grabs so as to not become predictable. This is unfortunate, since Peach's grab is so lacking in range in comparison with Marth's. Dash dancing is also effective, considering the effectiveness of the dash attack. Anything that throws off your opponent's timing is useful to you" Sastopher.

 

[Zanguzen]

wow lol nice post man i appreciate that- just a quick note regarding the matchups u said were harder- well personally i know gaw v falco isnt bad for falco unless its on fd and thats not total **** lol also falco v sheik - sheik has a bunch of things she can do to falco its not so bad i dont think its too bad- as for the other sheik ones i dont no much about them but o well- thx again for the peach v marth info lol

 

[cablepuff]

off topic: lol search top players name --> look at their post...quote them...(the most awesome technique).



Pay for by the sponsor of "please use search before you post".

 

[Zoap]

first of all i believe this match is even or just a little in marths favor.

"This match is extremely close, with my estimations being marth has a .5 or smaller advantage.

Interesting how i say the same thing and give some example on how to get around certain things and i get flamed. Its not that hard of a matchup so get over it.

Theres your challenge!!!

 

[six]

lol @ the title and some of the posts ("peach needs to get under marth", etc.)

ok, got that out of the way

i still gotta give this to peach. people seem to be underestimating the importance of marth's inability to kill peach, before or after that "120" mark of yours. peach, on the other hand, has no problems killing marth at most percents, and of course can edgeguard him like a *****. poke? i'd be more worried about fsmash with the way peach's recovery works.

in ritt terms, +1 peach, whether you agree with me or not does not concern me =P

 

[Yuna]

six, are you just... un-intelligent? "Peach has no problems killing Marth at most percents"?

Oh, tell me, oh great intelligent monkey-god, just how would Peach go about killing Marth at 70%? Or 80% for that matter. Or even 100% for that matter. With or without DI, Marth will NEVER die because of something Peach did before 100&%, even on Yoshi's Story.

And WITH DI, he'll live longer than Peach does because he's less floaty. However, Peach IS slightly heavier than he is.

Marth, however, can kill Peach at 80% on Yoshi's Story WITH DI and 110-120% on ANY stage WITH DI. These are GUARANTEED KO's if he tippers her. He also has utilt and fair - fair - fair, dair. You're underestimating Marth's killing power. OMG, did Peach get past 100%? How horrible, Marth no longer has any comboes into tippers or dair! Don't cry for him, Fire Emblem!

Anyway, as for Peach edgeguarding Marth like a whatever: As opposed to Marth edgeguarding everyone else? Marth is undoubtedly one of the very best edgeguarders in the game. He can dtilt anyone who tries to sweetspot and IF they manage to sweetspot, he can keep on dtilting to force them to get up.

Peach's ledge-attack has too little reach to hit Marth when he's off dtilting at tipper range. And at any time, he can still tipper the stage. Marth also has an excellent ftilt (which is fairly good at KO:ing as well) to edgeguard people. Not to mention shieldbreaker. He can easily jump out to a fair or a bair or a nair or a dair (the dair is hard to pull off however) and make it back to the stage/ledge safely.

And if you get up and try to shield stuff, he can just dash in for a grab. So he's got a whole bunch of choices there.

Now, Peach's best choice is to recover from above. Oh, how easy it just became. No it didn't. On small stages, she's still semi-screwed. He can easily g o from edgeguard to uair/nair spam. On bigger stages, she still has to land safely.

So don't underestimate Marth!

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I think he meant if you suck away his second jump, but otherwise, you're right, Yuna. Marth has much too easy of a time edgeguarding people. That and Peach seems to be a friggin' tipper-magnet. >_<

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Marth has a spike, if he can pull it off he can technically kill Peach at any percent if it hits. However, there is nothing that Peach can do at just any percent that is an auto kill, even if it's hard to survive at least you can. This, IMO, is a major thing that can help a marth if he knows how to use. it. I agree with +.5 for marth, mainly because most of the stages help him. Peach can do some nasty hits and stuff for him, but saying taht when it comes to getting KO's Peach has the advantage? By the way, this is assuming we're past 120%, yes it's much tougher for him, much much tougher. But who cares? Half of the time marth will get that 80% kill tipper because Peach gets set up for it so easily. marth is by no means a weakness to her, but I still think he's got more options and has to take less risks.

 

[Joseith]

I have also found that Shiek is a very good opponent to Peach. Then again, I'm not used to fighting her.....so that could just be me......

 

[Ignatius]

I can't beat Marths, except I at least took a match from Azen <.<... any advice ._.

 

[DoH]

only because you saw my illfated choice of going to mute city

lolz

marth can't combo you if you're comboing him.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I play Marth,and i must say that i don't really have a hard time against a peach(Most of the time that is..).

I seem to always:

-Slash her Turnips
-DI the D-smash
-Land consecutive grabs.

But i do have problems when i get a face full of Float Canceled Fairs,it eats up my shield and breaks through at times,and her Bair and Bair Edge gaurd is just plain sick.The thing i can say the most is don't let a peach get you on Defensive,it can reset the playing field,and the D-smash eats up shield.If you can spot an opportunity,shield grab her.

To keep a peach in check,you have to get offensive and don't let them get breating room.

 

[knightpraetor]

i play both these characters and would like more info in this thread....like where peach should be diing..and what marth can do to follow up different di's..i'm guessing marth has to wavedash forward to fsmash after a fthrow at higher percentages?

how long can fthrow chain into fthrow with marth? does di matter? (and is marth supposed to be dash grabbing or JC grabbing)

finally..dthrow i'm guessing works the same as fthrow? just wavedash to follow and you can catch the peach? or can the peach di far enough out or tech or something?

anywa si have no clue about the throw game from either perspective

 

[pheX]

Hey guys. I got huge problems against marth.
This is because of 2 main problems I got.
First one is edge guarding. How do you guys edgeguard him?
I used to float towards the edge most often with a turn ip, then while droping I drop the
turnip too and grab the edge.
At the beginning that was pretty nice but now the marth does another side B, and i loose my
invincibilte frames, up B would most likely hit me now.

Therefore i mostly role, hoping that this leads to an edge hog. Most often marth grabs the edge though.
I could also just get up and hope that he'll go on the edge and i can dsmash him but most marths i played against go directly to the edge.

So what to do? Just grab the edge later? When i try to wait a bit, so marth has to Up B i always to late and get hit by the upB before i even grab the edge. Marth is waiting for me to do there and hits me.

How can I get the timing right? Can anyone help me with that?

Second problem: I barely approach marth, the only approach i do is turn ip apporach to fc fair / nair.
Marth either use down B, which i might punish if i react proberly, shield which is pretty much the same as down B, just grab or he uses fair to get rid of the turnip, then i might punish him with dash attack.
But besides turn ip approaches what can you actualy do against marth?

at low% i CC everything, especially dair, dash attacks, wrongly spaced nairs etc. but at higher percentages i feel so vulnerable. Sometimes I do a role and smash throw OOS, that seems pretty safe too me but is very likely to be predicted.

So what do you guys do in this match up?
thanks for any help. Sorry for my english.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

My favorite trick for ledgeguarding marth is grabbing the ledge, and then when he's in his up-b I drop off and bair. The up-b stops the bair so you can recover. Try just getting up from the ledge when he recovers onto the stage and dsmashing him back.

Turnip approaches are the only real safe thing to do vs marth. If he's spamming fairs, you can time the dash attack to punish the lag. It won't combo to much but it'll do some damage and at higher percents knock him over, which allows tech chases and whatnot. It'll get the job done.

CC's are pretty much only useful at low percents, but +100 it's the difference between a tipper kill and survival. If you know an attack's coming, then either A) get out of the way and punish, B) shield, or C) Crouch Cancel. Nair OOS helps only if the marth's spacing is bad.

 

[sonofashrub]

it's all about the mindgames really. Dash danced dash attacks work fairly well. Figure out the marth's timings for his fairs, and then attack between them.

It's definitely a hard matchup for peach though. I think that although peach is good at punishing marths, marth is just as good at punishing peaches. Marth can easily get in a few fairs for a mistake, and can easily gimp peach with a dtilt if she plays off the stage a lot. Holding a turnip for peach means she can't shield grab, etc, etc.

an important thing I think for peaches is that if you get caught in a combo, throw out neutral airs to stop it.

 

[kirbstir]

Peach on Peach sounds a lot hotter

 

[Winnar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou7NlGNGBDI

sorry everyone but I just revolutionized the marth metagame vs peach

maybe you should pick up fox or something i dunno

sorry

 

[crismas]

^ rapeeeeee