Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

[RyokoYaksa]

Marth has always been somewhat heavier than Peach in Brawl. In B+ he also definitely falls faster, so he's a lot more resistant to vertical KOs, but is much more susceptible to being unable to recover from horizontal sends.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I know, just precautionary measures.

 

[GHNeko]

Too bad Peach's specialty is horizontal KOs. <_<

 

[RyokoYaksa]

None of them are low angle except tennis racket and Peach Bomber. Everything else you should be able to DI and recover from pretty easily.

 

[GHNeko]

Unless you dont have a good recovery and peach knows what's shes doing. <_<

 

[SymphonicSage12]

marth had good recovery. :V

 

[GHNeko]

marth had good recovery. :V

...not really. His recovery has always been so-so.

It way worse now though.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Not really.

you're lowballing on how bad it is.


But we peaches love to **** recoveries, so yeah, why am I defending marth? >.>

 

[Meru.]

Dsmash also sends at a long angle.

But I'm serious. Sets up for a good edgeguard vs Marth.

 

[GHNeko]

Not really.

you're lowballing on how bad it is.


But we peaches love to **** recoveries, so yeah, why am I defending marth? >.>

Uh. Marth recovery was only so-so in normal Brawl. In Brawl+, it was poor, and then it was made worse with the removal of invincibility, and with ledge ranges being shortened its going to be even worse.

Dsmash also sends at a long angle.

But I'm serious. Sets up for a good edgeguard vs Marth.

Haaaeett Dsmash.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Neko, stop trolling and/or complaining. Seriously, it is getting really annoying, and each post of yours makes you seem less and less respectful and deserving of respect in my eyes. Please stop being so whiny.


~SymphonicSage12

 

[GHNeko]

...Ironic you say that. >_>

I'm only saying I hate Dsmash. And I'm not trolling. Lol.

I'm just disagreeing with what you say about Marth's up B and how you dont think its 60-40 in Marth's favor.

 

[WheelOfFish]

...Ironic you say that. >_>

This.

Although I have to say that Peach killing Marth's recovery isn't THAT bad considering the match-up is in Marth's favor anyway.

 

[5ive]

Neko, stop trolling and/or complaining. Seriously, it is getting really annoying, and each post of yours makes you seem less and less respectful and deserving of respect in my eyes. Please stop being so whiny.


~SymphonicSage12

i lol'd.


lol

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Oh look, it's a changelist + handholding for the 9-18 build.

Dash Attack (1st Hit):
-All hitboxes have 0 KBG from 50 Allows DA to link much more reliably and not be punished because the KB starts pushing them out of range of the 2nd hit. It can still miss in other ways, with reversible KB, SDI, or hitting an extended hurtbox.
F-Smash:
-1st swing of the match is random, then each of the following swings continues in sequence of ...Club->Pan->Racket->Club->Pan->Racket... Random Fsmash was bad. Strategic Fsmash is good. The opponent should also be able to figure out the pattern and be prepared to DI accordingly.
-Pan +5 KBG (73 from 68) Frying pan is now an appreciable KO move worth the trouble for its lack of range.
-Racket sweetspot damage increased by 2, KBG greatly reduced to compensate + reduce KB curve [13->15 Dmg; 100->77 KBG; 40 BKB] Sweetspot racket KB was way too high for how fickle the sweetspot was and for being far greater than pan and club KB.
-All other parts of racket have increased KBG and normalized BKB [12 Dmg; 60->81 KBG; 30/40->30 BKB] especially when considering the complete fail KB of the rest of the racket
-Hitlag Multiplier: 1.00x->1.50x (Racket; Sweetspot) Damage and hitlag increased for a more dramatic effect on connection.
N-Air:
-Lingering hitbox damage reduced by 4, KB compensated to be the same. [Hitbox A-B: 10->6 damage; 100 ->166 KBG][Hitbox C: 9->5 damage; 100->180 KBG] The sheer amount of damage Peach can pull off on a fresh stock in a matter of 3 seconds was agreed to be somewhat objectionable. This is mostly due to the double hit trick with Nair and Bair and the damage/effectiveness of Dair.
F-Air:
-Knockback now able to reverse hit if positioned with them behind you Allows you to take advantage of Fair's higher KB in some cases of positioning or exploiting normal DI response. Reverse hit can also be detrimental for the same reasons if mispositioned.
-Hitlag Multiplier: 1.00x->1.60x Primary reason was to reduce the current advantage on shields by 3 frames.
B-Air:
-Can now be IASA frame 50 (down from 56) Was dreadfully slow with full animation. Now has the same IASA as Nair.
-Lingering hitbox damage reduced by 2, KB compensated to be the same [7->5 damage; 70->98 KBG] See Nair note. Do understand that the initial hitboxes of these moves have not been altered.
D-Air:
-Linking Hits: Damage reduced to 2 from 3 on each hit, KBG compensated [3->2 damage; 30->45 KBG]
-Last Hit: Damage reduced to 4 from 5, KBG compensated to be the same [5->4 damage; 80->100 KBG] Another aerial damage tone down. The move is still every bit as effective at starting combos.
F-Throw:
-Can now be used to KO at high percents [New: 8 Damage, 83->124 KBG, 45->29 BKB, Angle 45->40] Another rather unimpressive KO option Peach has now.
D-Throw:
-Lower KBG to extend poor DI punishment window [60->48 KBG] A buff only against unfamiliar players.
Neutral B:
-Spores fired no longer clash with other hitboxes The move should now work much more reliably against attacks that have lingering hitboxes.
Side-B:
-KBG reduced by 6 and BKB by 4 from previous setting. New:[1x Size; 15 Dmg; 40->73 KBG; 50->20 BKB; 23°]; Old:[1x Size; 15 Dmg; 40->79 KBG; 50->24 BKB; 23°] Old setting was comically powerful at the edge.
Up-B (Initial Jump):
-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.70x (First Hit)
-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.70x (Linking Hits)
-(Last Hit) Hitbox sizes increased by 20% [Hitbox A: Size 6->7.2; Hitbox B Size 5->6]
-(Last Hit) Angle increased to 75 from 60 The move is somewhat more reliable at linking to the end and may open the way for combos.
Up-B (Descent):
-Opening and closing of umbrella increased to 1.2x speed Allows better juggling ability by repeatedly opening and closing the parasol, and allows you to go into FF quicker when closing the parasol.
-Landing with umbrella up and open at 2x speed. A skill based lag reduction. If you don't do it in time, you'll just have full landlag. If you do it too early, you may wind up having more lag than if you just FF the whole thing to start. 2nd attempts with shortening the landlag are not realistic due to the time required to reclose/reopen the parasol.

 

[Meru.]

What does Yaaay think of this?

Dash Attack (1st Hit):
-All hitboxes have 0 KBG from 50 Allows DA to link much more reliably and not be punished because the KB starts pushing them out of range of the 2nd hit. It can still miss in other ways, with reversible KB, SDI, or hitting an extended hurtbox.

Looks good. Not very special, but every buff helps.

F-Smash:
-1st swing of the match is random, then each of the following swings continues in sequence of ...Club->Pan->Racket->Club->Pan->Racket... Random Fsmash was bad. Strategic Fsmash is good. The opponent should also be able to figure out the pattern and be prepared to DI accordingly.

I didn't really care, but I'm sure my fellow Peaches will love this.

-Pan +5 KBG (73 from 68) Frying pan is now an appreciable KO move worth the trouble for its lack of range.

Yaaay :D

-Racket sweetspot damage increased by 2, KBG greatly reduced to compensate + reduce KB curve [13->15 Dmg; 100->77 KBG; 40 BKB] Sweetspot racket KB was way too high for how fickle the sweetspot was and for being far greater than pan and club KB.

So, the power has been nerfed, but at least we can now actually hit with the sweetspot. I like it.

-All other parts of racket have increased KBG and normalized BKB [12 Dmg; 60->81 KBG; 30/40->30 BKB] especially when considering the complete fail KB of the rest of the racket

So-weet! :D

-Hitlag Multiplier: 1.00x->1.50x (Racket; Sweetspot) Damage and hitlag increased for a more dramatic effect on connection.

That's good. Overall, Fsmash has been buffed. :D

N-Air:
-Lingering hitbox damage reduced by 4, KB compensated to be the same. [Hitbox A-B: 10->6 damage; 100 ->166 KBG][Hitbox C: 9->5 damage; 100->180 KBG] The sheer amount of damage Peach can pull off on a fresh stock in a matter of 3 seconds was agreed to be somewhat objectionable. This is mostly due to the double hit trick with Nair and Bair and the damage/effectiveness of Dair.

Mehh, not a problem for me, I can easily live with it. I almost always only hit with the 'sweetspot' anyway.

F-Air:
-Knockback now able to reverse hit if positioned with them behind you Allows you to take advantage of Fair's higher KB in some cases of positioning or exploiting normal DI response. Reverse hit can also be detrimental for the same reasons if mispositioned.

Mehh, I don't know if I like a reversible Fair. But you said it's better, so I guess it's good.

-Hitlag Multiplier: 1.00x->1.60x Primary reason was to reduce the current advantage on shields by 3 frames.

But we can still jab after a Fair, right?

B-Air:
-Can now be IASA frame 50 (down from 56) Was dreadfully slow with full animation. Now has the same IASA as Nair.
-Lingering hitbox damage reduced by 2, KB compensated to be the same [7->5 damage; 70->98 KBG] See Nair note. Do understand that the initial hitboxes of these moves have not been altered.

I can also live with this, same as Nair. Besides, the full animation is faster, and that's good.

D-Air:
-Linking Hits: Damage reduced to 2 from 3 on each hit, KBG compensated [3->2 damage; 30->45 KBG]
-Last Hit: Damage reduced to 4 from 5, KBG compensated to be the same [5->4 damage; 80->100 KBG] Another aerial damage tone down. The move is still every bit as effective at starting combos.

F-Throw:
-Can now be used to KO at high percents [New: 8 Damage, 83->124 KBG, 45->29 BKB, Angle 45->40] Another rather unimpressive KO option Peach has now.

Lol, I guess this can now kill at like 180%? Yaaay...

D-Throw:
-Lower KBG to extend poor DI punishment window [60->48 KBG] A buff only against unfamiliar players.

Hope it's better now.

Neutral B:
-Spores fired no longer clash with other hitboxes The move should now work much more reliably against attacks that have lingering hitboxes.

Ehh ok. Not very helpful, but well, it's a buff.

Side-B:
-KBG reduced by 6 and BKB by 4 from previous setting. New:[1x Size; 15 Dmg; 40->73 KBG; 50->20 BKB; 23°]; Old:[1x Size; 15 Dmg; 40->79 KBG; 50->24 BKB; 23°] Old setting was comically powerful at the edge.

I guess this is a small nerf. I can live with that.

Up-B (Initial Jump):
-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.70x (First Hit)
-SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x->0.70x (Linking Hits)
-(Last Hit) Hitbox sizes increased by 20% [Hitbox A: Size 6->7.2; Hitbox B Size 5->6]
-(Last Hit) Angle increased to 75 from 60 The move is somewhat more reliable at linking to the end and may open the way for combos.
Up-B (Descent):
-Opening and closing of umbrella increased to 1.2x speed Allows better juggling ability by repeatedly opening and closing the parasol, and allows you to go into FF quicker when closing the parasol.
-Landing with umbrella up and open at 2x speed. A skill based lag reduction. If you don't do it in time, you'll just have full landlag. If you do it too early, you may wind up having more lag than if you just FF the whole thing to start. 2nd attempts with shortening the landlag are not realistic due to the time required to reclose/reopen the parasol.

I find this the best buff. I don't care about a non-random Fsmash, and Fthrow probably isn't much better. But I already like this one. Now it's more reliable for killing, edgegaurding and comboing, which is amazing, and we can juggle! :D And the landing thing gives more depth. It's also more reliable for recovering from above, as we can land quicker and opening the parasol is also quicker.

I like this. She hasn't been buffed, but she also hasn't been nerfed. She's still pretty much the same.

 

[crazycrackers]

The only nerf that disappoints me is the dair damage nerf, but whatever, it still does 10% (reasonable) and combos into other moves just as well as it used to. From 0 or low dair>double hitbox nair>grab will work, so now instead of that doing like 35 it will do 27. However, this will still combo into grab/uthrow and start Uair juggles. Who knows, the lower damage of dair>double hitbox nair might even allow for an extra hit in an uair juggle.

As for the other stuff:

*Dash attack- Meh, helpful I guess but not that significant. But hey, I'm not complaining.

*Fsmash- <3. I like this. The fact that it has a pattern is all I really care about here. The other stuff is nice too though.

*Fair- Well, I don't really care but I think a certain Peach will (symphonic)

*Bair- Again, not really significant to me. If I double hitbox something it will probably be Nair, not Bair. The IASA frames are nice though.

*Fthrow- I'm either going to really like this or just be indifferent to it. It depends on how much of a buff it's received. If it can kill at like 150% and set up for edgeguards better I'd like that I guess (my most frequent opponent is a ROB player so long lives for both of us are a frequent thing). If it kills at like 180% I won't really care much. Basically if its close to Melee I'll be one happy Peach main.

*Dthrow- I play people who know how to DI well, so this won't be that significant, but still nice.

*Neutral B- Well, its not like this will be huge since toad shouldn't be used frequently...at all. But its cool that correct prediction with this move will have a slightly more guaranteed reward .

*UpB- I don't know how much I'll like this. I'll really just have to test it but it looks like it has the potential to be very cool

 

[SymphonicSage12]

yes, I do like the reverse hit on fair. >.>

Never mind!!!

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Why would you call the dthrow to Usmash combo when it's been known since the beginning of Melee?

 

[WheelOfFish]

Why would you name a two-hit combo ever?

 

[PaintedGhost]

Why would you name a combo ever? (unless you're ken.)

 

[Morrigan]

Why would you why?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Why would you use your post 5,000 on such a thing?

 

[Rudra]

'Cuz he's a nut.

Spoiler

c wut I did thar?

 

[crazycrackers]

Why would you call a combo that every peach knows about. lol

 

[CloneHat]

All hits of dair connecting is now...

...the CloneHat combo.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Hey, I wanna be famous. so shut up. Never mind, I Guess. Harsh, people. ;_;



* goes and attempts to find a really sexy new combo that no one knows about*


****, crazycrackers and ryoko and darkpeach found them all already.

 

[crazycrackers]

^ Ya, I actually do know a ton of combos lol.

Anywho, I really like the new fthrow. It reminds me of melee It seems Peach is now a little worse at racking up damage but a little better at killing.

 

[Morrigan]

Why would you use your post 5,000 on such a thing?

Ooh, so it was HERE. I never realized lol.

err..


Yay Peach?

 

[Roxas215]

^ Ya, I actually do know a ton of combos lol.

Anywho, I really like the new fthrow. It reminds me of melee It seems Peach is now a little worse at racking up damage but a little better at killing.

Which defeats her whole purpose on teams.

I haven't played the new set yet(**** sd slot) But looking at the changelist it seems like she got buffed in ways she shouldn't have. Although im probably solo on this so i wont even complain. I am glad about the new fsmash though.

 

[M15t3R E]

DUDE!!! I just attended a Brawl+ tournament today and may I say, that Peach is incredibly fun to use in Brawl+. I can't tell you the satisfaction I felt after scoring KO's by dash dancing and then surprising the opponent with a butt (bair) to the face. She seems to retain all her former combos from Brawl and yet new ones as well.
Glide Tossed turnip>dair>utilt>fair FTW!

 

[Meru.]

^ Ya, I actually do know a ton of combos lol.

Anywho, I really like the new fthrow. It reminds me of melee It seems Peach is now a little worse at racking up damage but a little better at killing.

Well, I don't know about this... Like you have said, she might be able to throw in another move now beucase her attacks do less damage. Also, we have UpB and Dash Attack for new combos :D.

 

[crazycrackers]

Which defeats her whole purpose on teams.

I haven't played the new set yet(**** sd slot) But looking at the changelist it seems like she got buffed in ways she shouldn't have. Although im probably solo on this so i wont even complain. I am glad about the new fsmash though.

Whoah whoah man slow down here. No need to worry, Peach is still good at racking up damage, just not QUITE as good at it as she was before, but its still definitely her strong point.

 

[Roxas215]

Whoah whoah man slow down here. No need to worry, Peach is still good at racking up damage, just not QUITE as good at it as she was before, but its still definitely her strong point.

Am i the only one who think peach should not have **** near 10 ko moves? Considering how crazy of a damage builder she is?

fsmash,fair,bair,usmash,uair,foward b,fthrow,nair

not to mention the edgeguarding abilities of dsmash and tunrips. And if i read the changelist correctly. Up b is now a situational ko move as well????

I just don't want peach to be considered a cheap/op char.

 

[Meru.]

Well, IMO:

Peach still has a pretty high learning curve. She's an amazing character with unbelievable potential, but you have to be good to show the potential. If your Peach is OP, you're doing something well. Praise yourself. Also, those killing stuff don't kill early. You can make it kill early (edgeguarding, aiming the right way, combo to KO), but you need skills for that.

If you want a cheap wh0re, go Zelda. Peach is hard-to-get.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well, IMO:


If you want a cheap wh0re, go METAKNIGHT. Peach is hard-to-get.

fixed.

 

[Roxas215]

fixed.

He said wh0re not bat. lol

 

[SymphonicSage12]

looking at metaknight, it's the same thing.


and metaknight isn't a bat anyways. He's a kirby with a mask and wings/cape + sword

 

[crazycrackers]

K so here's a combo I've known about for some time but just didn't post it. Its pretty lulzy.

From 0:

Ground Float Nair>Ground Float Nair>Ground Float Nair.

Not joking. If you run in between each one and then low float nair QUICKLY its actually a combo lol. I'm sure any Peach that can Nair pillar will be able to do this. And yes, you have to drop your float immediately after each one hits. Hope I explained this well >_>

 

[SymphonicSage12]

^ tech in between hits?