Peach+ Get Pimpslapped!

[PaintedGhost]

Epic name change FTW.
LOL at Captain Falcon's death. Pure win.

No , your definition of gay is all wrong. If the matchup is ******** (infinites, ridiculous chain grabs)

then it's gay.

Spoiler

No then it's ********.

Does it really matter? I don't enjoy the Pikachu match-up, therefore it's gay.

 

[PKNintendo]

Spoiler

No then it's ********.

Does it really matter? I don't enjoy the Pikachu match-up, therefore it's gay.

Oh yeah. Your right it is ********. Thanks for the correction mate.

 

[5ive]

Spoiler

No then it's ********.

Does it really matter? I don't enjoy the Pikachu match-up, therefore it's gay.

lol get *****

 

[PaintedGhost]

Anyway... I was surprised the knockback of peach bomber. I did it by accident during yesterday's smash fest, and holy **** it's strong. I think I may use it more often. The angle it hits people away is really weird too, so possible lol-worthy edgeguard.

Edit: the one at 0:49 is an accident X_x http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMeGE2WnRxU&feature=sub\

Edit2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_beYvhSfeQ&feature=sub 28% down smash @ 2:23.

 

[Meru.]

Peach Bomber really f*cks people with bad recoveries, especially horizontally.

 

[Roxas215]

Yea i have heavily incorporated her bomber in my gameplay ever since it got the buff. It's a legit kill move now.

 

[Meru.]

I want to do a quick view on her match-ups (this way we know which ones we can discuss well later, but I'm also just curious to know), so what about:

Snake
Toon Link
Wolf

 

[Roxas215]

I want to do a quick view on her match-ups (this way we know which ones we can discuss well later, but I'm also just curious to know), so what about:

Snake
Toon Link
Wolf

I only fought 1 good snake in b+ so i have no idea on the matchup. It seems peach can combo snake to hell and back but getting in is the problem as snake still has the best defensive game out the entire cast. In vbrawl peach's combos on snake meant very little as snake could just drop a bomb. In brawl+ now with hitstun that's not a problem anymore. However snake still has devastating combos of his own. I would think the matchup is still in snake's favor but i would need to play it ALOT more to really have a valid opinion on it.


I have yet to play a single tl in brawl+. Don't know how the matchup differs from vbrawl. In vbrawl. Tl's spam is just 10x better then peach's. However most tl spam are very readable and they do it in a pattern(arrow,boomerang,bomb,repeat) Once u can read how the tl player goes about his projectiles the matchup is easier. A well placed toad can stop all that. Im assuming this is still in effect in brawl+. However I've heard tl can do like 8 bairs in a row and combo to spike. lol. I believe the matchup is 50-50 in vbrawl

Peach pretty much ***** all ff's once she gets in and wolf is no different. His lazer can be annoying but if u can get in against falco there is no reason u can't get in against wolf. Not only does her combo destroys wolf but his recovery is also easily gimpable. I believe this matchup is heavily in peach's favor.

 

[PaintedGhost]

TL is a *****, believe it. He's not super awesome good, or impossible to beat, just hard to overcome. There's a difference.

 

[Meru.]

I think Snake is a 50-50. Many think he isn't that hard in vBrawl, though some do.* In Brawl+, Snake is still a though one, and not be underestimate, but it's much easier now. Snake was never a character who you would have an aggressive style against and Peach has a very solid defending game herself. It's a strange match-up, as both Snake and Peach shouldn't have only an aggressive game or only a defensive one. But yeah, Peach combos Snake and has an easier time killing him than in vBrawl, though Snake can now also combo and still kills Peach quite early. Oh, and don't float like an idiot.

I've no idea about Wolf and Toon Link though.

* I want to say an important thing about vBrawl match-ups: In vBrawl, Peach's match-ups very heavily rely on the player's playstyle. This cause many disagreements about match-ups and their ratios. This is generally known in the Peach boards. I just want to say that one shouldn't trust the Peachy ratios too much. It does give you a good overview, as a solid disadvantage won't probably turn into an advantage, but don't take it for granted.

 

[Roxas215]

* I want to say an important thing about vBrawl match-ups: In vBrawl, Peach's match-ups very heavily rely on the player's playstyle. This cause many disagreements about match-ups and their ratios. This is generally known in the Peach boards. I just want to say that one shouldn't trust the Peachy ratios too much. It does give you a good overview, as a solid disadvantage won't probably turn into an advantage, but don't take it for granted.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. The different opinions on the ddd,snake.mk,and olimar matchups prove this.

 

[crazycrackers]

I think snake is probably slightly in Peach's favor. Like 55/45, nothing major at all. Then again, I haven't played a great Snakes in B+. TL, he can be annoying but you just have to KNOW what you're doing and the matchup becomes a lot easier. I actually love playing against TL. Wolf...no idea.

Just thought I'd say something minor seeing as I haven't stopped by in quite a while.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

The ivysaur guide TOTALLY ripped off our title. >.>

anyways, the builds people plan to make her fair "reversible" in the next set. meaning that the collision will be a regular one, not a "special" collision. Opinions?


and does anyone think that she needs anything else tweaked? Just trying to get stuff stirred up here.

 

[Roxas215]

The ivysaur guide TOTALLY ripped off our title. >.>

Duh i made both titles.

 

[PaintedGhost]

I've been having a lot of trouble with jiggz lately. I'm pretty sure 5ive has a video where eugene 2 or 3 stocks me twice with jiggs. So lets discuss the matchup.

Btw, isn't my avatar the best? Ghost Jigglypuff similey

edit: Ugh, 4 stocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE_IhtGwkhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaESrmINnM

 

[5ive]

My avatar is superior.

 

[Meru.]

I've been having a lot of trouble with jiggz lately. I'm pretty sure 5ive has a video where eugene 2 or 3 stocks me twice with jiggs. So lets discuss the matchup.

Btw, isn't my avatar the best? Ghost Jigglypuff similey

edit: Ugh, 4 stocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE_IhtGwkhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaESrmINnM

Something I noticed is that when you were defensive, it went well, but when you went aggressive, you got crushed. I think Peaches should go defensive against Jiggly. Turnips hurt her and Peach is very anti-aerial (e.g. Ftilt, Utilt, Fsmash ).

 

[CloneHat]

You've got high priority aerials that can put pressure on Jiggz (just a warning, bair can be out-prioritized), but if you whiff them without any turnips or backup moves, Jigglypuff will dodge/weave through them and usually give either 30%+ or take a stock.

Jigglypuff is fast and air-based, so she doesn't feel much pressure from your aerials. You have to stay back and use turnips and spaced aerials to put pressure on her, you can't run in on the offensive unless she messes up.

Dodging a smart Peach's well-spaced attacks+turnips takes lots of concentration, but a reckless Peach will be FOUR STOCKED.

*maniacal laugh*

 

[crazycrackers]

Jiggz vs Peach has always been a spacing war and still is. Its all about turnips and Fair in this matchup. And play defensive against Jiggz. If you're going to approach do it very very slowly while spacing aerials. She'll probably approach you anyway due to the nature of the character.

 

[Meru.]

Sooooo.... Other troublesome match-ups? Still looks great so far.

Slight disadvantage
MK
Marth

Maybe disadvantage
Pikachu
Charizard

Even
Jigglypuff?
Kirby?
Fox
Toon Link?
Snake?

Maybe advantage
Zelda

Any disagreements? Discussions? Also, what about Squirtle?

 

[THO]

I think squirtle has the advantage on peach. He has better ground and aerial speed than her and his attacks come out faster (except maybe peaches nair, but that doesn't matter much due to the speed). Also, he is one of the best characters at edgeguarding peach due to his ability to really get far off the stage and connect with strong hits.
But then again thats just me.

Also, falco probably has the advantage considering his laser almost completely grounds peach, which means she can't attack. He can out camp her as well. The only thing that could even the match up is how easy it is to kill him, but that doesn't mean much if you can't score a hit, let alone a killing combo.

I agree that Jigglypuff and kirby go even with peach, the matchup is really just a waiting game, except peach has an item (and kirby and jigs both combo off the stage usually to death). Pretty close stuff.

I still think marth has an advantage against peach, its just so easy to camp fair against her its insane.

I think if anyone good plays pikachu this matchup would be very difficult, though I really don't know due to the lack of opponents who main him.

No one has mentioned any wolfs, I don't personally have any problem with wolfs (and alot of people main wolf where I live) but the matchup is pretty even, wolf can kill at very low percents and bair spam is very hard to get through. But peach can **** combo him and usually kill on edge guarding. Wolfs big disadvantage is he can't approach properly, he can only space Bair and shoot his gun. I find that attacking works best in this situation.

MK is still a hard matchup.

I don't think charizard has an advantage. I think charizard should get ***** by peach. Its like the bowser matchup. If you don't play really safe you will die at low percents, and peach can't kill either character till near 200. But they really can't do much and once they get hit, they take like 50-80 damage every time. The problem is one little mistake and your taking a 40 damage rocksmash and then getting Faired of the screen.

All i know about zelda is that I hate playing her. Everyone just starts camping forward b as soon as they get away. I hate that.

Thats all i got for now.

 

[Meru.]

Also, falco probably has the advantage considering his laser almost completely grounds peach, which means she can't attack. He can out camp her as well. The only thing that could even the match up is how easy it is to kill him, but that doesn't mean much if you can't score a hit, let alone a killing combo.

o_o I've heard that Peach - Falco is 60-40 in Peach's advantage.

I still think marth has an advantage against peach, its just so easy to camp fair against her its insane.

I honestly can't believe this. Dash attack, Turnips and sometimes even Peach Bomber are examples of moves that can handle his Fair camping. Marth is a weird match-up, Peach must switch between aggressive and defensive a lot.

I don't think charizard has an advantage. I think charizard should get ***** by peach. Its like the bowser matchup. If you don't play really safe you will die at low percents, and peach can't kill either character till near 200.

Mehh, the % is pretty high, but 200 seems too much. I think so at least.

 

[THO]

Maybe I just suck, or haven't figured it out yet, but I find it very difficult to move against a camping falco. Short hop double laser takes peach out of her low float and any thing she is doing on the ground. If you float up above the sh double laser then this gives the falco the chance to forward b under you and begin camping in the opposite direction. I think if the falco plays as gay as possible there isn't much peach can do. But then again I may be wrong. Maybe there is more of an opening than I think. I'll have to try to find a peach Falco match online and see how she does it.
I under stand that if the falco messes up peach can often combo for quite a while. So its like yes peach can **** falco once she gets in on him, but she shouldn't be able to get in on him.

The marth matchup is wierd. I haven't played a good marth since before all his big changes were installed. So I guess I don't really know what this match is like anymore. All i do know is that before there wasn't much peach could do to a fair camping marth. I don't think peach bomber is a good option against fair camping considering fair goes through the bomber and the bomber wind up is so slow that the marth can either fair it from Sh or quickly land and shield. Either way the marth has the advantage. I can only see this working as a surprise attack occasionally and even then its risky.
Either way, I should probably play a good marth with updates before I make any more judgment calls.

On a side note, where does the community place peach on the tier list?

 

[WheelOfFish]

Uh... Falco is getting SHFFL instead of SHDL I'm pretty sure. So that might help the match-up a little. Peach is really good. Obviously, there isn't really a tier list for Brawl+ since balance is constantly being adjusted and tweaked, but most people consider Peach to be really good.

 

[THO]

Yeah, I agree, peach good. Does anyone know if they are discussing making any changes to her?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

they are discussing removing her side b buff and like not giving anything in return.

I mean I don't want them to remove it. Tone it down, maybe, but the move is USELESS without it.

and the change must be good, because BBrawl stole the idea for their own codeset.

 

[Meru.]

Why would they want to do that? It isn't even THAT strong, and it is still very situational.

... Maybe they'll give her a nice Fthrow buff so we can really Pimpslap them :D

 

[THO]

So you guys are saying that peach is really good right? So where does she place compared to characters like others are placing in the top 10 like:
kirby
marth
luigi
mk
fox
falco
GW
Shiek
ZSS
Wolf

characters like that.

I know some people don't place peach in top ten. Me and some friends of mine place her mid on the top ten list( basically where she was in melee) and I know some who consider her contending for best in the game.
Personally I put her in the mid top ten range just because there are some matchups where she just gets ***** (by the top tiers) but then she does very very well against every body else.

But yeah, what do you guys think?

 

[Meru.]

So you guys are saying that peach is really good right? So where does she place compared to characters like others are placing in the top 10 like:
kirby
marth
luigi
mk
fox
falco
GW
Shiek
ZSS
Wolf

characters like that.

I know some people don't place peach in top ten. Me and some friends of mine place her mid on the top ten list( basically where she was in melee) and I know some who consider her contending for best in the game.
Personally I put her in the mid top ten range just because there are some matchups where she just gets ***** (by the top tiers) but then she does very very well against every body else.

But yeah, what do you guys think?

With ***** you mean a 65-35? Peach doesnt have that. Not at all.

 

[crazycrackers]

Peach has disadvantages, but doesn't get ***** by anyone. On the other hand, she is a seriously hard counter to some characters. And yes, I do consider her to be somewhere in the top ten.

Symphonic, I'd have to disagree with you on this one. If I was in charge of this game's development, I wouldn't have added the thing to begin with. SideB was literally Peach's ONLY useless move, which is far better than the vast majority can say. The fact that BBrawl stole it means nothing. BBrawl is designed to be like Brawl, a game where Peach is top of mid, or arguably bottom of high. Then when you look at Brawl+, where the very physics of the game buff Peach far beyond those positions, why would it be necessary to implement the same buff to her? In addition, while it is my dream to have her fthrow buffed, and while I'm sure we would all like it, I'm also relatively certain that we all know that Peach does not need a fthrow buff, and never needed a SideB buff. I'd also like to say that SideB was a chancy move before, and all of the risk on the move is still there, a higher reward for successful execution has just been added. I don't even care if its gone, because high risk/reward is NOT what Peach is all about. Peach is a character that has a ridiculously safe moveset in Brawl+, and there is literally always a safer option than SideB.

 

[Plum]

I don't think charizard has an advantage. I think charizard should get ***** by peach. Its like the bowser matchup. If you don't play really safe you will die at low percents, and peach can't kill either character till near 200. But they really can't do much and once they get hit, they take like 50-80 damage every time. The problem is one little mistake and your taking a 40 damage rocksmash and then getting Faired of the screen.

Zard definitely has a combo game though... His combo game absolutely ***** ff'ers and heavies, and sure Peach isn't either but she isn't immune. She just won't have to worry about it for as long as them. His Uair just links into itself over and over again at low percents, and give the guy a platform and he will do it even longer. Plus he can also play the range game the whole matchup. I'm fairly certain his Fair even outranges Marth's Fair which really says something. Rock Smash has huge disjointed range, and Flamethrower can be annoying if he baits you into it. And like you said, he is a tank with his good recovery/weight.

I only play Zard in friendlies so I can't really say like its a final word or anything, but I would put him in the slight advantage area against Peach, like 55-45. Peach can just do so much hurt to Zard when she gets in that there's no way Zard is going to have an easy time. It's a matchup where I think Zard has everything he needs to win, but his physics easily balance the matchup out.

That's what I have to say about Zard at least :V

 

[Roxas215]

I have to say that ever since the side b buff i have incorporated it heavily into my playstyle. And while i never asked for it taking it out now would feel weird. Especially when stuff like lucario attacking out of up b is still there. However if it is taken out i would just deal with it.

 

[GHNeko]

The voice of logic? From a peach main? lolwut.

jk jk. But tbh, it was a superfluous buff, and IIRC, she lost nothing when she got it. :/

And we STILL havnt followed through with the shield stun issue with fair. idk what WBR is doing atm.

 

[crazycrackers]

Symphonic, I'd have to disagree with you on this one. If I was in charge of this game's development, I wouldn't have added the thing to begin with. SideB was literally Peach's ONLY useless move, which is far better than the vast majority can say. The fact that BBrawl stole it means nothing. BBrawl is designed to be like Brawl, a game where Peach is top of mid, or arguably bottom of high. Then when you look at Brawl+, where the very physics of the game buff Peach far beyond those positions, why would it be necessary to implement the same buff to her? In addition, while it is my dream to have her fthrow buffed, and while I'm sure we would all like it, I'm also relatively certain that we all know that Peach does not need a fthrow buff, and never needed a SideB buff. I'd also like to say that SideB was a chancy move before, and all of the risk on the move is still there, a higher reward for successful execution has just been added. I don't even care if its gone, because high risk/reward is NOT what Peach is all about. Peach is a character that has a ridiculously safe moveset in Brawl+, and there is literally always a safer option than SideB.

Once again, the sideB buff was totally unnecessary, and wasn't even asked for. In fact, NONE of the buffs Peach has received have been asked for in this thread I believe. Peach is fine without SideB, its not a big deal, and she shouldn't have even gotten the buff in the first place. I mean, if WBR wants to give us free buffs I'm not going to be like "no", but I still realize the OBVIOUS reasoning behind removing the buff.

Zard definitely has a combo game though... His combo game absolutely ***** ff'ers and heavies, and sure Peach isn't either but she isn't immune. She just won't have to worry about it for as long as them. His Uair just links into itself over and over again at low percents, and give the guy a platform and he will do it even longer. Plus he can also play the range game the whole matchup. I'm fairly certain his Fair even outranges Marth's Fair which really says something. Rock Smash has huge disjointed range, and Flamethrower can be annoying if he baits you into it. And like you said, he is a tank with his good recovery/weight.

I only play Zard in friendlies so I can't really say like its a final word or anything, but I would put him in the slight advantage area against Peach, like 55-45. Peach can just do so much hurt to Zard when she gets in that there's no way Zard is going to have an easy time. It's a matchup where I think Zard has everything he needs to win, but his physics easily balance the matchup out.

That's what I have to say about Zard at least :V

From my experience the matchup is even. Peach shouldn't be getting hit with rocksmash often at all, since she can play such a safe game. Also, she can easily approach him without the nuisance of his Fair by using turnips. Her combos pretty much **** him more than his **** her, but he will have an easier time killing. Charizard has to play really smart, because of Peach gets in close, he doesn't have many options against her at all.

 

[Magus420]

And we STILL havnt followed through with the shield stun issue with fair. idk what WBR is doing atm.

Yes we have actually. The hitlag multiplier was raised to 1.60x from 1.00x giving it a -3 shield hitlag differential. If that ends up not being enough then lowering the damage from 15 to 14 and compensated for KB will reduce shieldstun by 2, but that probably won't be needed.

Also, the side-B buff isn't getting removed to my knowledge. If anything it may be toned down a bit, I believe because of how effective it now can be against some characters offstage combined with its low angle, when the change wasn't really intended to be a significant buff to her game.

 

[PaintedGhost]

Yes we have actually. The hitlag multiplier was raised to 1.60x from 1.00x giving it a -3 shield hitlag differential. If that ends up not being enough then lowering the damage from 15 to 14 and compensated for KB will reduce shieldstun by 2, but that probably won't be needed.

Also, the side-B buff isn't getting removed to my knowledge. If anything it may be toned down a bit, I believe because of how effective it now can be against some characters offstage combined with its low angle, when the change wasn't really intended to be a significant buff to her game.

It isn't, it can be seen from miles and miles away while making a sammich.

 

[Meru.]

I want to slap people out of the screen Let's remove SideB and give her a good Fthrow :D

... I'm sure nobody will agree. But come on, it's fun, we all love Fthrow :D

About her match-ups: Well yes, she does have disadvantaged match-ups, of course. But neither of them are actually that bad. Her lowesrt ratio would be a 40-60 AT WORST. I wouldn't be surprised if her only disadvantaged match-ups would be 45-55's. Not at all, actually.

Mehh, we should really discuss MK and Marth.

 

[crazycrackers]

If SideB is not going to be removed, I would gladly have a tradeoff for fthrow. Isn't fthrow like the only buff we've really asked for since the beginning?

 

[Roxas215]

In fact, NONE of the buffs Peach has received have been asked for in this thread I believe.

\

So true. Only buff i ever asked for from the beginning was for a faster ff speed and it's still not in. I also asked for her fsmash to be a pattern instead of random but thats not really a buff.

 

[PaintedGhost]

\

So true. Only buff i ever asked for from the beginning was for a faster ff speed and it's still not in. I also asked for her fsmash to be a pattern instead of random but thats not really a buff.

My memory is fuzzy but I think I remember that the peach boards discussed making a code to un-randomize it, it never work though. Someone said the random value changes everytime you turn off the wii, or something like that.