Pathways Smash XI October

[Terry]

Playing Ziv every week pretty much got me to where I am. I was getting 4 stocked the first few times I played with these dorks a few months ago. <3333333

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Wretched, I thought you were for reals when you said you hated playing me.

Roman, it's inevitable that you're going to end up quitting melee for traditional fighters. That sucks. You've went to the dark side.

Terrence, sleep more.

Nathan, check smashboards more.

Drew, your Falco is getting too good.

Robbie, nice of you to show up!

 

[Zantetsu]

I'm not really going to quit Melee, it's just been an off day for me. I've put too much time into Melee to quit, it's not even an option.

Why are we talking about the smashfest in the tournament thread? This is better for the Springfield thread.

 

[_Yes!_]

This game suuuuuucks

Agreed, brawl is much better

I'm not really going to quit Melee, it's just been an off day for me. I've put too much time into Melee to quit, it's not even an option.

Why are we talking about the smashfest in the tournament thread? This is better for the Springfield thread.

Hype bumps?

 

[G. Vice]

Someone in Arkansas said something about going to this, but we'll have to see.

 

[arbustos]

At the very least, Yoshiman, March Hare, Raven Knight, and I will probably go because the twins have a school break and want to do something with it.

 

[Terry]

Awesome! Hope to see ya! ^_____^

 

[Terral]

Excellent, it will be great to see you guys again.

 

[G. Vice]

Arby, you're sure Yoshiman wants to go?

Usually he hates tournaments

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Yeah but Yoshiman loves Springfield!!

It would be incredible to see you guys again. I see G.Vice posting in here but he wasn't included in Arby's list.

If you guys want to come a day early lemme know and I'll find you some housing.

 

[Zantetsu]

Might be able to house peeps

 

[DeLux]

I don't understand what you mean by banning ICs hands off

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

I don't understand what you mean by banning ICs hands off

I need the .tio file from you for BTEH2

 

[DeLux]

You'll get the file soon, probably when I'm off work.

to clarify:

I'm not going to argue that ICs should not be banned. I just want to know what the "hands off" clause means

 

[Terral]

to clarify:

I'm not going to argue that ICs should not be banned. I just want to know what the "hands off" clause means

It's banning the immediate throw->grab hand-offs. Handing the grabbed foe off to the other climber. The sopo down-throw chain grab would still be legal since it's basically the same as Falco and some other characters, and I'd like opinions on still allowing the ice block reset. You're probably the most qualified to give input on these ideas, so I'd like to hear what you have to say.

 

[DeLux]

Might I ask what's the purpose of the banning of the tactic specifically?

like is it to remove infinites and things like that?

 

[Terral]

We have the rule that gives people the opportunity to avoid match-ups with infinites, but there isn't avoiding Ice Climbers' since it works on every character. So yes, it's essentially to reduce inescapable infinites. I'm a bit more ignorant of the ice block reset, though.

 

[DeLux]

If that's your goal, you should just outright ban it and all infinites imo

 

[_Yes!_]

asdfasdfasdf

 

[DeLux]

Ally is correct except he probably doesn't have the technical knowledge backing to note the following:

- Stages Matter: Hobbling can't be done on most stages that aren't flat unless the players (I'm probably the only one in the country who knows how to do circumvent this) are extremely lucky. If you are on a non-flat stage, the IB doesn't iniate force-getup animation, it initiates a true reset.

- SDI matters: If done at the edge of the stage, you can SDI so they fall off the stage and thus preventing a regrab.

- Snake and Zero Suit Samus have been documented as being able to avoid hobbling. IE the IB used to reset will actually miss them. Both of these characters have an advantageous matchup (or even in the case of snake according to some) on ICs. Not because of the fact that they can cause a whiff on hobbling. Just the way the matchups play out.

- It is not an infinite lol I will bet anyone $1000 that hobbling is not an infinite.

 

[_Yes!_]

Well the fact that they degenerate the game into OMG RUN FOR YOUR LIFE is pretty lame. An mk ban warrants an ics ban imo if cgs aren't banned.

 

[DeLux]

If it weren't for the fact that ICs have both overwhelming character AND stage counters, I'd agree with you _Yes!_
So I guess what warrants a ban is different for you than it is for me.

But I'm not here to argue the merit of banning CGs or not.
I was asked my technical opinion on the subject and given my technical opinion based on what the TO said his goal was, I gave him my recommendation.

 

[_Yes!_]

Well who beats ics? Peach? Peach sucks ****; no one's gonna learn peach just for the ics matchup. I'm talking to vinnie now too I'll post what he says.

 

[Terral]

Dedede's infinites are covered under the rule allowing the disadvantaged to reset character selection, as is Marth's regrab (though, admittedly, it's possible to jump-break). There isn't the option to switch to a character unaffected by Ice Climbers' infinite hand-offs, so the only option to reduce it in any way is to ban it. Limiting it leads to uncertainty. I don't know of any other infinites, aside from wall infinites. I don't consider laser/jab locks to be infinites.

As for the ice block reset, based on what I have seen I didn't see it as being game-breaking. However, I've also never seen it used exclusively, without mixing up with the hand-offs. I was curious to see how banning hand-offs and leaving (what I perceived as) the less powerful chain grab would affect games.

 

[DeLux]

Terral, I just mentioned how you can limit the viability of hobbling by stage selection

 

[_Yes!_]

asdfasdfasdfasdf

 

[DeLux]

Vinnie and Ally are wrong
it is not an infinite.

I will be willing to bet all the money I have that it is not an infinite.

 

[_Yes!_]

asdjfhal;sdl;aj

 

[_Yes!_]

pgn 5:22 pm
oh i meant
it's a guaranteed 0-death
well, like 50-deaht
it isn't an infinite
because the ice blocks freeze at like 220%
but they'll be dead by then

 

[AllyKnight]

Vinnie and Ally are wrong
it is not an infinite.

I will be willing to bet all the money I have that it is not an infinite.

Ok and how do you prevent it? lol.

 

[DeLux]

The rules define infinite as a tactic that can't be escaped up to 300%

IBs freeze around 220 on most characters.
it is therefore not an infinite

 

[_Yes!_]

rofl because everyone survives until 220%

 

[DeLux]

I also mentioned the other ways to work around it.

Such as through character and stage selection

 

[Terral]

IMO, while I agree that one definition of an infinite is something that can't be escaped until 300%, if something can't be escaped before it can be ended by a KO it is basically the same thing.

 

[AllyKnight]

I also mentioned the other ways to work around it.

Such as through character and stage selection

It's still an infinite because you can't do **** about it. And you will be dead by 150% ban it. LOL. INb4 Delux doesn't go to tourney nemore.

Stage or whatever, it doesn't matter, it's an infinite with the same benefit has ICS's chaingrab, death with no hope.

 

[DeLux]

This is why I recommended to ban it and ALL infinites if you guys want the proper context

Again, I was supplying the TO with the CORRECT information so he can make a decision on his own.

 

[AllyKnight]

Besides, the 300% rule is just so player doesn't grab once and time someone out. Nothing to do with infinite = being over 300%

 

[Terral]

Are there any other infinites I don't know of? I think the character selection reset is plenty good for Dedede's infinites and Marth's infinite. Like I said, there isn't really that option against ICs, so that rule can't be applied. Presently, it's looking like it would be the better course of action to ban hobbling along with hand-offs.

 

[Saffy]

Donkey kong has an infinite on Lucas/Ness.

BAN MY CHARACTER <3

 

[Terry]

I really want to troll for some reason.