Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[Lavani]

Not an Ike player, but I can answer some of these questions.

2) Eruption edgeguarding: How does it work? Characters get invincibility frames right at the moment they grab the ledge, right? I don't see how Eruption can even hit a recovery from below... Maybe it's only viable against certain characters?

4) When I'm hanging on the ledge, what is my safest way to get up? I usually just stand right up, but a well timed aerial seems to beat it sometimes... Or is it a complete guess, and all options can be punished in some way?

5) Best ways to gimp characters that revover from underneath you? A local friend of mine and me had a session yesterday, and he avoided my gimping attempts by letting himself fall, use his second jump when I was past him and upb'ing back to safety. I'm not sure how to deal with this.

2. There's a bit more to this attack than what the explosion would indicate; it actually reaches a surprising distance below Ike as well. To give you an idea of the range:

Note also that there are floorbounce graphics in that screencap; the tip of the sword meteor smashes. With good timing you can hit an opponent before they grab the ledge, and with proper positioning you might just get a meteor KO out of it too!

4. There's no perfect way to recover, just observe what your opponent tries to punish and adapt accordingly, but mix it up so you don't become predictable yourself. Letting go of the edge and jumping onstage with an aerial is an option that people tend to forget about, so don't forget that's an option.

5. This is a little outside my character knowledge, but generally speaking I wouldn't go deep with Ike. If you want to go offstage I believe you can safely do an aerial in front of the ledge, otherwise Eruption and dtilt can both hit opponents before they grab the ledge with proper timing. You definitely don't want to be going so deep that you're trading places with your opponent if you fail to get the hit, at any rate.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Hey all, figured this was the best thread to post some of my questions regarding Ike as well as the game mechanics.

1) What are Ike's best punishing options? I usually just go for jabs and throws, but I think, given his defensive nature, becoming good at blockpunishing should become a priority if you main Ike. I was thinking about bair as a punisher for blocking a dash that goes behind your shield, but I've never pulled it off in a match (and the game doesn't feature a record function in training mode, so it's hard to say if you can even get guaranteed punishes against those kinda attacks).

2) Eruption edgeguarding: How does it work? Characters get invincibility frames right at the moment they grab the ledge, right? I don't see how Eruption can even hit a recovery from below... Maybe it's only viable against certain characters?

3) What is Ike's gameplan? I figure this is matchup dependent, but in general, my gameplan is to let the other guy come to me, and I punish their failed approaches with either grabs, jabs or dtilt. When I get them in the air, I usually rack up some percentage chasing them, or punishing their retailiation attempts. Punishing is about 80% of what I do, and good players figure out I don't really approach them and they start going for a LOT of throws etc... I try to counter that by pre-emptively doing neutral jump Nairs, and it works sometimes, but it's a guess. If they don't commit to a dash grab, they can punish my Nair pretty easily if they play a fast character. I also have a lot of trouble against people who roll a lot. Chasing rolls is hard, and going for hard reads with run upsmash (very satisfying and fun!) doesn't work that well. I'm not new to Smash Bros., but I never had as much trouble with rolls as I have in this game... Have they been buffed in some way?

4) When I'm hanging on the ledge, what is my safest way to get up? I usually just stand right up, but a well timed aerial seems to beat it sometimes... Or is it a complete guess, and all options can be punished in some way?

5) Best ways to gimp characters that revover from underneath you? A local friend of mine and me had a session yesterday, and he avoided my gimping attempts by letting himself fall, use his second jump when I was past him and upb'ing back to safety. I'm not sure how to deal with this.


Excuse me for the long post. I'd appreciate any form of input, I wanna get better with Nintendo-Guts . And better at the game in general, I guess.

1. I use Bair often simply because its so fast, and often times you end up hitting fighters who whiff even quick attacks. For punishing it can be good, and at ranges quick draw can punished poorly charged smashes or whiffed attacks as well. Generally, jabs and grabs are useful like you said and so can Nair. The only problem I have run into with Bair (i think it might just be me) is that many characters are to short and the hit-box doesn't connect because I jump to high from a short hop, I had no problem in brawl but cant get the hang of it on the DS.

 

[TeeJay308]

^Lavani

Thanks for your input. I have had a couple of instances where Eruption actually managed to beat recovery options. Once against a tethering ZSS, once against an UpB'ing Lil' Mac and once against an UpB'ing Lucina. The timing is kinda weird, you have to release the Eruption kinda early, it feels like. I'll try to implement it some more, definitely a nice and satisfying way to get kills!

Has anyone else noticed that Ike's jab-combo isn't an actual combo on some characters? Meaning that they can consistently shield the 3rd hit if they hold r, even if the first two jabs hit? Very annoying, I kept getting punished for finishing MY own punish attempt against a Greninja. I had a couple of games against a good Diddy a couple of days ago as well, and he was able to shield it as well. I hope this gets fixed somehow, because we have characters like Lil' Mac dishing out 19% damage for his jab combo, and there's no way you're getting outta that one.

Maybe it's a good idea to make a list of characters that can shield the 3rd hit? I feel that Ike's jab combo is one of the only good things he has going for him. A list would be very helpful to all Ike mains and aspiring Ike players.

I don't have access to two systems + two copies, so if anyone who does have the option to test this would be so kind. Or we could exchange FC's and do the testing together.

 

[Karsticles]

Looking for feedback on my Ike play:
Karst (Ike) vs. Magius (Bowser): http://youtu.be/dlmTP7Puo9Y

 

[mimicmatter]

Looking for feedback on my Ike play:
Karst (Ike) vs. Magius (Bowser): http://youtu.be/dlmTP7Puo9Y

That's a great match. Against Bowser, do not try to follow him on the air if he is out of reach of your Nair and Fair. He will surely try to attack with Dair or DownB. In this situation stay on the ground and wait for him to make the move and Counter. Smash on the edge are really great and you sure read him with them, however be careful when both of you are on the ground. I saw at one point where he shielded your smash and was right besides you, you got lucky he didn't punished you but someone else would have.

 

[Mario766]

I'd do an empty hop to bait it out then punish. Dair/DownB on Bowser is extremely punishable.

I'd do less full hops to approach and approach more with short hops mixed with empty hops and foxtrots.

 

[Banjobeast158]

So, dodge cancelling. Anything special Ike can do with it?

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Looking for feedback on my Ike play:
Karst (Ike) vs. Magius (Bowser): http://youtu.be/dlmTP7Puo9Y

Nice gamplay here. You did a pretty good job staying defensive, but I didn't see a lot of aggression. You never really went off the stage to secure the kill. That Fair is more powerful than you think, I've kept opponents from reaching the ledge againat %s as low as 70 using that Fair offstage. Also didn't see much countering. There were a few decent opportunities to counter that you missed out on, though countering with Ike is risky business, so I don't blame ya. Only other thing I thought I should mention is to be careful with the Usmash and Fsmash (I dunno if you Fsmashed, but I saw a few smash attacks, so I just thought I'd mention it). They're easily punishable, so it's important to be careful. Dsmash is a pretty good one to use when the enemy is rolling since it his on both sides, hard for them to avoid, but again, it can be punished. Overall though, you did great, I look forward to seeing more of your work!

On a side note, anyone here think that there's a chance Ike will get buffed in the upcoming patch?

 

[Xuan Wu]

On a side note, anyone here think that there's a chance Ike will get buffed in the upcoming patch?

These are a few I would like to see in particular, although unlikely:

+ Damage multiplier raised to 1.3x on Counter.

I am still baffled by the fact there are other characters with generally weaker attacks, like Marth, having the same damage multiplier for Counter as Ike! You would think that a character whose traits are defined by power and weight would hit harder than that. I find the 1.3x multiplier for Ike appropriate, considering middleweight fighter Shulk has it, and he generally doesn't hit as hard as Ike when excluding Monado Arts.

+ Knockback trajectory made horizontal for D-smash.

D-smash retained most, if not all of its properties from the previous iteration. I would have liked to see at least one of its hitboxes given horizontal knockback properties, but alas, it is once again overshadowed by U-Smash . Ike already has U-smash to strike both in front and behind him; it also has more range and power than D-smash. Despite it being his fastest smash, there is still too little incentive to use D-smash when U-smash can do everything it does, except better.

+ Super Armor, or increased knockback on F-smash

Ike's trophy description, Sakurai's PotD, and even Palutena's Guidance, emphatically remarked on Ike's powerful attacks, with the latter especially noting his F-smash. The damage and knockback nerf to F-smash made it pretty underwhelming, which made its power not seem very well reflected in the comments made by the above. I have heard of many characters surviving this attack at mid percents.

^-^

 

[Orsone]

So, patch 1.0.4 is out and there are 2 things I noticed with Ike:

-Dtilt now sends the opponent upward
-Fair is faster and autocancel if immediately imputted during a short hop without fastfalling

 

[Radius-86]

I don't play Ike but I tested him first because he was pretty much bottom of the barrel so it was for certain he would be improved.

D-tilt and F-tilt - IASA frames occur earlier, but the move speed is still the same
Fair - comes out much faster

 

[Senko Zero]

His jab string now seems more like it was in brawl where the kick doesn't send as far. Could be wrong on this one, but that's that it feels to me.

 

[-RedX-]

-SH Fair now autocancels. Startup is also much faster.
-Bair does 1% more damage, slight increase in knockback(?)
-Nair has reduced knockback allowing for more opportunities for followups.
-Dtilt trajectory is upwards now, less recovery, does 1% more damage.
-Ftilt recovers slightly faster.
-Dsmash trajectory is slightly more horizontal.
-Jab now works as intended, including comboing properly on Greninja. Does not combo properly on Yoshi still. :/

Haven't looked at any of the specials in detail but @ san. could most likely spot any changes if any.

 

[mimicmatter]

-SH Fair now autocancels. Startup is also much faster.
-Bair does 1% more damage, slight increase in knockback(?)
-Nair has reduced knockback allowing for more opportunities for followups.
-Dtilt trajectory is upwards now, less recovery, does 1% more damage.
-Ftilt recovers slightly faster.
-Dsmash trajectory is slightly more horizontal.
-Jab now works as intended, including comboing properly on Greninja. Does not combo properly on Yoshi still. :/

Haven't looked at any of the specials in detail but @ san. could most likely spot any changes if any.

That Dtilt connect so well with the new fast Fair, It's definitly something to look at. I have checked Eruption and this move has some new tricks. If I remeber well before, Eruption was sending foes always upward except for fully charge where it has a lot of horizontal knockback. Now it seems it has some degree of horizontal knockback into it. The more you charge Eruption, the more horizontal knockback you get. That means that almost fully charged Eruption has a lot of horizontal charge. That doesn't means it's less powerful, it has the same killing power but has added horizontal knockback the more it is charge.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Im so glad for these buffs lol

 

[MasterOfKnees]

These new buffs are fantastic, you can now do things like D-Tilt -> U-Tilt and F-Air -> F-Tilt. I'm absolutely psyched about this.

 

[Oblivion129]

You know when his Fsmash would hit with the very tip, it would have that sour-spot effect like D3's Fsmash? I think they took it out, meaning slightly more range.
Also, jab does 11%.

 

[Banjobeast158]

can you download this patch yet?

 

[Kiyosuki]

New and improved fighting for friends.

 

[Yoh]

-SH Fair now autocancels. Startup is also much faster.
-Bair does 1% more damage, slight increase in knockback(?)
-Nair has reduced knockback allowing for more opportunities for followups.
-Dtilt trajectory is upwards now, less recovery, does 1% more damage.
-Ftilt recovers slightly faster.
-Dsmash trajectory is slightly more horizontal.
-Jab now works as intended, including comboing properly on Greninja. Does not combo properly on Yoshi still. :/

Haven't looked at any of the specials in detail but @ san. could most likely spot any changes if any.

I noticed the same things, not sure about bair, knockback felt the same.
Also down Tilt does 1% more damage, not much but hey, still a small buff.
I also could not find any difference with Ikes Specials.

I´m definitley hyped, those buffs make Ike better, he really needed that.

 

[san.]

Jesus Christ!

 

[Robin1613]

Jesus Christ!

My sentiments exactly

 

[Nysyarc]

Noticed at least two differences with Ike's specials, Counter sliding no longer seems to work, haven't tried with customs yet. Full charge (and close to full charge) now does 10% damage to Ike even with just default Eruption (correct me if I'm wrong about that being new, was pretty sure only Eruption 3 hurt him). It deals the same damage and has the same knockback at full charge as it does when Ike first starts to flash blue more quickly, so I guess a larger hitbox is all you're getting for the 10% damage to yourself? Unconfirmed, it may just be all bad, lol.

Quickdraw still works the same including auto-cancel height and Aether still can't grab the ledge backwards unfortunately.

 

[Mario766]

Eruption 1 hurt you at full charge. Eruption also sends them more horizontal.

It's pretty much a small change, not a nerf and probably not a buff.

 

[Nysyarc]

Also is it just me or does Ike's mid-air jump seem to have a bit more height? May just be all the Ganon I've been playing lately, and it seems like that would be a weird thing to change, but it just feels a bit different.

 

[san.]

I charge eruption 3/4 of the way through and I still get the large hitbox with no damage dealt to Ike. His double jump has always been that high. They buffed it a lot compared to Brawl, which had a double jump similar to Ganon.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Has anyone been able to test sideB? it might be just me but it seems stronger fully charged.

 

[gsninja]

Man, I haven't played Smash in several weeks so I had no idea this patch was even incoming. Talk about a nice surprise.

 

[san.]

Has anyone been able to test sideB? it might be just me but it seems stronger fully charged.

Same %, doesn't seem that way. 13% fully charged for me.

 

[-RedX-]

Pre 1.0.4, did QD3 have super armor during the charge animation the entire time you held the button when it's at max charge? If that makes sense.

Doesn't seem to have super armor at that point now.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Man, I can't wait for the next update!

 

[link and ike lover]

Ike gonna kick *** in SSB$ for Wii U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im ready to see him in his full potential! I hope he his godlike in SSB4 for Wii U!

 

[TKD]

So, dodge cancelling. Anything special Ike can do with it?

The beginning of uair has more autocancel frames during start-up than most moves, so you can IASA an airdodge to autocancel it with uair's startup. It requires good timing (input the uair an instant before you actually land); it's not free like Ness' dair. It's good for landing out of airdodges if you don't want to or don't have the chance to commit to something.

If you want to make a gimmick out of it, short hop airdodge iasa uair autocancels making it look a bit like a Brawl airdodge. Falco, Meta Knight, Falcon and Greninja do this the best (their short hop airdodges reach their iasa exactly before landing).

 

[Banjobeast158]

The beginning of uair has more autocancel frames during start-up than most moves, so you can IASA an airdodge to autocancel it with uair's startup. It requires good timing (input the uair an instant before you actually land); it's not free like Ness' dair. It's good for landing out of airdodges if you don't want to or don't have the chance to commit to something.

If you want to make a gimmick out of it, short hop airdodge iasa uair autocancels making it look a bit like a Brawl airdodge. Falco, Meta Knight, Falcon and Greninja do this the best (their short hop airdodges reach their iasa exactly before landing).

Thanks for the tip, I'll see if i can pull it off in training. I've been waiting for a while to hear back on that haha

 

[link and ike lover]

Well:
Ike's Fair is significantly faster Looks like it can autocancel as well
Neutral Aerial seems to be quicker
Jab looks fixed so all 3 attacks connect properly
Ending lag on his Forward-tilt and Down-tilt reduced
Back air seems faster but I'm not sure at all
Back air's damages increased by 1%

 

[Mario766]

Jab still doesn't properly connect sometimes, I have major problems getting Jab 3 to connect against Samus of all people, and I'm sure super light characters like Jiggs can get out like with Shulk as well.

 

[san.]

Jab still doesn't properly connect sometimes, I have major problems getting Jab 3 to connect against Samus of all people, and I'm sure super light characters like Jiggs can get out like with Shulk as well.

Hold A and you can cancel the second hit of jab if it misses with the first again. It's usually quick enough to hit them again. Floaty characters are going to get out of jab3 easily, but that gives you room to just shield grab any option if you don't commit to that third jab.

 

[mimicmatter]

Honestly ! In order to see a difference between pre and post-patch 1.04, we would need to compare moves side by side. Now If someone would try to run the games on a different SD card before the patch, we could try to compare every moves. I might try this, as I have two 3DS.

 

[san.]

Honestly ! In order to see a difference between pre and post-patch 1.04, we would need to compare moves side by side. Now If someone would try to run the games on a different SD card before the patch, we could try to compare every moves. I might try this, as I have two 3DS.

Dantarion is gonna release some detailed information soon, so I'd hold off until his post.

VI may have been removed in favor of the old DI! This means that our high percent uthrow combos will work!

 

[-RedX-]

Against Rosa, if you land jab1 you should delay jab2 a bit and it should still combo properly into jab3. I suspect this is the case for some of the other floaties. In Brawl, some players could wtfhaxSDI and get out of Ike's jab string so you had to read their SDI. Now its just learning specific timings on certain characters. As long as nobody can auto shield jab3 on hit, I'm okay with this.

VI was just weakened I heard but if weakened enough for Uthrow kill combos....
Ike is ****ing amazing right now.