Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[C4-]

Can anyone explain to what out of shield options are exactly ? is it really as simple as shielding then using a move after ? and does ike have any noticeably good moves out of shield ?

 

[-RedX-]

Can anyone explain to what out of shield options are exactly ? is it really as simple as shielding then using a move after ? and does ike have any noticeably good moves out of shield ?

It's what you do right after dropping your shield. Jab, Dtilt, and Bair are very good. Dtilt is currently a bit technical to do because you might spotdodge instead. Attack stick solves this. Utilt out of shield is an option when blocking laggier moves but this opportunity hardly comes up. I should note that ALL ledge attacks are punishable by Ike's jump canceled Usmash.

 

[san.]

It's what you do right after dropping your shield. Jab, Dtilt, and Bair are very good. Dtilt is currently a bit technical to do because you might spotdodge instead. Attack stick solves this. Utilt out of shield is an option when blocking laggier moves but this opportunity hardly comes up. I should note that ALL ledge attacks are punishable by Ike's jump canceled Usmash.

Jump canceled out of shield? That's pretty lulzy then.

 

[-RedX-]

Yea, out of shield so you can confirm if you blocked a ledge attack easily. I mention jump cancel only because I play with Tap Jump off so I input Jump+Usmash. If Tap Jump is on, then you just input it normally.

 

[Mario766]

Peach sucks to fight.


You say all ledge attacks are punishable? Most of the time when I try it I just get bopped. Is there a specific timing you're looking for when doing it or is it just as early as you can during the ledge attacks animation?

 

[NT 3000]

Peach sucks to fight.


You say all ledge attacks are punishable? Most of the time when I try it I just get bopped. Is there a specific timing you're looking for when doing it or is it just as early as you can during the ledge attacks animation?

If I'm not mistaken peaches get up attack is that slide. Which is very easy to punish. With a nicely timed nair or fair. For peach the timing isn't to precise. I usually wait till there's about 10-15 frames left then short hop and execute move.

 

[CommanderVimes]

When punishing with usmash make sure you do it as fast as possible out of shield. That means you jump while in shield and immediately do smash before you leave the ground: it probably won't punish anything if you are dropping shield normally.

Speaking of OoS, is it describing anything after a shield now, like RedX said, or does it specifically refer to the moves you can do out of it like aerials and smashes?

 

[-RedX-]

Peach sucks to fight.


You say all ledge attacks are punishable? Most of the time when I try it I just get bopped. Is there a specific timing you're looking for when doing it or is it just as early as you can during the ledge attacks animation?

Punishable on shield. If you manage to block a ledge attack, you Usmash out of shield and it'll work. Do this once and they'll most likely never do a ledge attack again, making edge guarding easier for you.

@ CommanderVimes , it describes anything right after a shield drop because of how fast it is in this game.

 

[⑨ball]

So, I've been playing a fair bit with edgeguarding options Ike has. Been finding that Eruption has a big enough hitbox to hit through some curved stages. It looks pretty absurd on stages like Magicant and is definitely something we should look into.

Also been going for some riskier things with sideB as it doesn't put us in freefall on hit any longer, very high risk/reward. UpB is another option with a lot of potential. The new ledge mechanics make this a very viable option that covers pretty high, does decent damage, has super armor after the sword throw, may spike on the downwards hit, and can ledge trump leading to a bair or any onstage option( like pivot Fsmash or jcUsmash) as trumps do not reset ledge invincibility.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Is anyone else frustrated by how little shield push there is...also because there isn't any. When people are on platforms no more utilt into jab resets :/ kind of stupid how they took this out when they fixed jab and laser locks.

It's one of the more annoying things about the game. Is it an Ike thing or a gamewide thing?

 

[NT 3000]

It's one of the more annoying things about the game. Is it an Ike thing or a gamewide thing?

It's all characters. :O

 

[E.J.]

Hey san, how do you find out frame data in this game?

 

[Mario766]

Down throw -> Up-Smash is a true combo. 24 percent. Works on fast-falling characters at very low percents.

Gotten it to register on:
Fox, Meta Knight, Diddy, DK, Little Mac

Doesn't work on:
Anything lighter than Fox
Bowser

It doesn't work past like 5-10 percent. VI dependent possibly.

Ike looks scary if you space right, 3 grabs can turn into 60-70 percent almost guaranteed if you can do 3 aerials as every link does 20+ damage.

 

[san.]

Shield push is quite large, but the stun is still small. Keep in mind that stale moves have much worse shield push and stun.

Hey san, how do you find out frame data in this game?

Right now, the easiest way is to record and count frames that way. It's not going to be that easy until the Wii U version comes out.

Down throw -> Up-Smash is a true combo. 24 percent. Works on fast-falling characters at very low percents.

Gotten it to register on:
Fox, Meta Knight, Diddy, DK, Little Mac

Doesn't work on:
Anything lighter than Fox
Bowser

It doesn't work past like 5-10 percent. VI dependent possibly.

Ike looks scary if you space right, 3 grabs can turn into 60-70 percent almost guaranteed if you can do 3 aerials as every link does 20+ damage.

Usmash is quite risky since it seems to be a 0% thing only.

I haven't mentioned it in this thread, but if you're below 30ish % and they're near 0-15, you can dthrow, quick hop (strict timing) into aether 2 for a good 30%. You may have to hold back while performing aether 2 to get the best movement for it to combo properly.

Honestly, I've learned quite a lot and haven't updated the OP.. Just want to play more to finalize my thoughts on some aspects.

 

[NT 3000]

Shield push is quite large, but the stun is still small. Keep in mind that stale moves have much worse shield push and stun.


Right now, the easiest way is to record and count frames that way. It's not going to be that easy until the Wii U version comes out.



Usmash is quite risky since it seems to be a 0% thing only.

I haven't mentioned it in this thread, but if you're below 30ish % and they're near 0-15, you can dthrow, quick hop (strict timing) into aether 2 for a good 30%. You may have to hold back while performing aether 2 to get the best movement for it to combo properly.

Honestly, I've learned quite a lot and haven't updated the OP.. Just want to play more to finalize my thoughts on some aspects.

Besides some smash attacks I haven't noticed much shield push at all. There's far less then there was in brawl.

 

[Mario766]

Yeah I just found it randomly during training mode, the better option is gonna be a SH aerial, as it can lead into more pressure and links.

 

[NT 3000]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo

I don't think it would be too useful for us but it is interesting to say the least.

 

[Mario766]

Looks more useful with Tempest.

 

[Ultima777]

http://youtu.be/liavCAqrTYk Ike vs. Luigi

 

[xBlitz]

Is fair safe on shield? with the 3ds controls I find spacing it in neutral quite difficult, and usually dash grab or dash attack from shield drop from a lot of quick characters make being in the air extremely unsafe, while committing to tilts/jab also feel quite unsafe.

 

[Nysyarc]

Committing to just about anything against characters like Sonic, Falcon, Little Mac, etc (high ground speed) is generally unsafe. You want to throw out relatively lagless attacks or empty jumps from a distance and bait approaches. From my experience so far, Fair isn't really any more or less safe on shield than most of Ike's other options. Slightly retreating Bair is likely the safest, but kind of tricky without a C-stick. I feel like Ftilt and Utilt should only be used on reads or as easy punishes/follow-ups. Dtilt has a little more flexibility because it has better speed and decent range.

 

[Mario766]

You forgot Sheik in there as well. The easiest way for our aerials to be safe is to cross-up the opponent so they can't punish you in time for you to be able to use an action with your auto-cancelled aerials.

 

[Sol0ke]

Just something I wanted to throw out, any matchup that requires a lot of patience (ex. Greninja, Sheik) occasionally leaves my hands a bit aching due to lack of C-Stick and the fact that it's well...a 3DS.

 

[C4-]

Something worthy of mentioning for the guide , though it applies to all characters, would be the instant item toss because i feel like a lot of people don't know about it . It dosent seem to work if your trying to throw the item when its under your feet but itll work if the item is by the ledge and your hanging out to it , also if its thrown at you or on a platform above you. The input is Shield/air dodge, attack, and inputting the direction you want to throw it in.( For unchanged controls that would be, R , A and the direction you want to throw it in). Its a little hard to get used to but its pretty good to know. It will definitely be more useful on wii u.

 

[san.]

Something worthy of mentioning for the guide , though it applies to all characters, would be the instant item toss because i feel like a lot of people don't know about it . It dosent seem to work if your trying to throw the item when its under your feet but itll work if the item is by the ledge and your hanging out to it , also if its thrown at you or on a platform above you. The input is Shield/air dodge, attack, and inputting the direction you want to throw it in.( For unchanged controls that would be, R , A and the direction you want to throw it in). Its a little hard to get used to but its pretty good to know. It will definitely be more useful on wii u.

I forgot about that tech, thanks. It will indeed work next to your feet if you're quick enough.

 

[Banjobeast158]

I don't know if this has been specified already, but what is ,in general, the best way to use Fair. I'm just having trouble landing it by short-hop. When is the best time to fast fall once the move has started?

 

[Deathcarter]

I don't know if this has been specified already, but what is ,in general, the best way to use Fair. I'm just having trouble landing it by short-hop. When is the best time to fast fall once the move has started?

Fair tends to work better as anti-air as hitting an opponent diagonally below you is pretty hard to do with fair. But as far as fast-falling fair goes, I would fast fall when Ike actually begins to swing the sword forward (or when the actual hit box starts) as there's a bit of a delay before the move comes out.

 

[Banjobeast158]

sweet, thanks

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Is forward smash a little more reliable in this Smash or is ftilt still a more useful move

 

[san.]

Is forward smash a little more reliable in this Smash or is ftilt still a more useful move

Neither, really. I would treat ftilt similar to a smash attack from any other character. It has similar properties to most of them outside of not being able to charge it. Fsmash is decent when used situationally near the edge. On Battlefield, it can cover both the edge and the top of the platform pretty easily. Its kill power is much worse when killing from the left to right end of the stage, for instance.

Dtilt, Jab, retreating aerials, and pivot/dash grabs all work pretty well. Ftilt is good if they shield the tip, but it can be punished if used too close or if it misses.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Neither, really. I would treat ftilt similar to a smash attack from any other character. It has similar properties to most of them outside of not being able to charge it. Fsmash is decent when used situationally near the edge. On Battlefield, it can cover both the edge and the top of the platform pretty easily. Its kill power is much worse when killing from the left to right end of the stage, for instance.

Dtilt, Jab, retreating aerials, and pivot/dash grabs all work pretty well. Ftilt is good if they shield the tip, but it can be punished if used too close or if it misses.

Good to know, thanks for the tip

 

[Banjobeast158]

I've had limited success with pivoted Ftilts. its worth a shot, throw it in when they start to dash towards you. Generally a dash grab is more useful though.

 

[AN(M)ist]

One thing I'd like to say for fsmash: against ike, its the last move your opponents would want to airdodge or spot dodge into. Even though the startup frames is a lot, the hitbox itself comes out very fast when you release the charge, thus making it an excellent dodge punisher.

That being said, yes you should really be using it very situationally namely as hard read, or if you're feeling ballzy, a random throw out move to mess up your opponents strategy and make them air dodge or spot dodge so that you could punish them from for it.

Another thing I noticed is fsmash does a decent amount of sheild damage as well, but dunno how much of a practical implementation that would be.

 

[san.]

I want to stop being lazy and do more in-depth writeups on each move, but I know much more now than I did a month ago, so it'll be quite a bit to write..

 

[LonkQ]

Is anyone else having luck using Dthrow as a kill move? It usually isn't that useful, but at high percents Rage will help you kill lighter characters around 130-150%.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Is anyone else having luck using Dthrow as a kill move? It usually isn't that useful, but at high percents Rage will help you kill lighter characters around 130-150%.

I've played around 500 matches and have never killed an opponent with a throw..its just not really a kill move

 

[LonkQ]

I honestly wouldn't consider it in most circumstances. But if you're around 100% or higher, you can kill with Dthrow around 150% on lighter characters. It's a nice little thing that helps to close out a stock if you're struggling to land a kill move.

 

[Mario766]

Doesn't work on a good amount of the cast.


Mario doesn't die with full rage till like 185.

 

[LonkQ]

You sure about that? I used 100% Ike against Mario and he'll die around 150% if you pummel him a couple of times and Dthrow. That said, that's only on a computer so it could be higher depending on vectoring.

 

[TeeJay308]

Hey all, figured this was the best thread to post some of my questions regarding Ike as well as the game mechanics.

1) What are Ike's best punishing options? I usually just go for jabs and throws, but I think, given his defensive nature, becoming good at blockpunishing should become a priority if you main Ike. I was thinking about bair as a punisher for blocking a dash that goes behind your shield, but I've never pulled it off in a match (and the game doesn't feature a record function in training mode, so it's hard to say if you can even get guaranteed punishes against those kinda attacks).

2) Eruption edgeguarding: How does it work? Characters get invincibility frames right at the moment they grab the ledge, right? I don't see how Eruption can even hit a recovery from below... Maybe it's only viable against certain characters?

3) What is Ike's gameplan? I figure this is matchup dependent, but in general, my gameplan is to let the other guy come to me, and I punish their failed approaches with either grabs, jabs or dtilt. When I get them in the air, I usually rack up some percentage chasing them, or punishing their retailiation attempts. Punishing is about 80% of what I do, and good players figure out I don't really approach them and they start going for a LOT of throws etc... I try to counter that by pre-emptively doing neutral jump Nairs, and it works sometimes, but it's a guess. If they don't commit to a dash grab, they can punish my Nair pretty easily if they play a fast character. I also have a lot of trouble against people who roll a lot. Chasing rolls is hard, and going for hard reads with run upsmash (very satisfying and fun!) doesn't work that well. I'm not new to Smash Bros., but I never had as much trouble with rolls as I have in this game... Have they been buffed in some way?

4) When I'm hanging on the ledge, what is my safest way to get up? I usually just stand right up, but a well timed aerial seems to beat it sometimes... Or is it a complete guess, and all options can be punished in some way?

5) Best ways to gimp characters that revover from underneath you? A local friend of mine and me had a session yesterday, and he avoided my gimping attempts by letting himself fall, use his second jump when I was past him and upb'ing back to safety. I'm not sure how to deal with this.


Excuse me for the long post. I'd appreciate any form of input, I wanna get better with Nintendo-Guts . And better at the game in general, I guess.