1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
- Oct 26, 2008
- Rochester, NY
- 3DS FC
Looking for ways to format better. Want to get information out first.
[collapse= Patch changes]
- Bair 13%->14%, kills 10+% earlier
- Fair swing speed increased and finishes more quickly
- Short hop fair now autocancels
- Dtilt 7->8%, much less endlag, and launches vertically. Can combo into aerials.
- Dtilt range reduced by 5%
- Ftilt endlag slightly decreased, less prone to heavy punishments
- The full jab string now combos with a swifter jab3
- Counter slide removed
- Fair hitbox size increase and hitbox shifted slightly lower vertically
- Beginning autocancel of fair changed from 5 to 2 frames
- Dtilt ever so slightly shorter range
- Range increased on dair with some shifts
- Dsmash more horizontal knockback
- Random specials tweaks, notably aether Z offsets
- Everything else is unchanged or tweaked so slightly that we cannot tell the difference
- Possible ending lag decrease on down smash
- Possible ending lag decrease on dash attack
[collapse= General Buffs and Nerfs from Brawl]
- Combo ability on aerials improved, especially nair
- Aerials are faster
- Aerials cancel a good proportion of projectiles
- Aerials autocancel more quickly
- Fair, Uair, Bair, and Dair landing lag decreased by 1-3 frames
- Nair has a better hitbox behind him
- Combo ability on throws improved, especially dthrow
- Damage on throws improved
- Dash grab is quicker
- Ftilt and Dtilt are faster
- Utilt damage and sweetspot buffed
- Dtilt changed into an incredibly quick poke that can begin combo strings
- Tech/ground punishes improved
- Ground/Aerial speed improved
- Double jump height improved
- Quick Draw keeps your momentum in the air
- Quick Draw has quicker IASA frames after swinging
- You can perform any action after quick draw if the slash animation is performed
- Counter begins faster and lasts longer
- Ike is 3 units heavier
- More damage on dash attack with a slightly better hitbox
- All of Ike's stronger attacks deal good shield damage and pushes the shield a fair distance
- Smash attacks are faster
- Aether combos more easily
- Aether backwards movement has improved
- Pivot grab buffed
- Get-up attack nearly breaks shields
- Dash attack has an additional hitbox for anti-air at the move's end
- Aerials have more ending lag despite better autocancel ranges. You need to land after every fully hopped aerial
- Eruption lost super armor up to 3/4 charge
- Aether cannot grab the ledge when facing backwards
- Aether deals less total damage
- Fair has less reach, especially diagonally downards
- Nair landing lag increased by 4 frames
- Lingering hitboxes removed from dair
- Lingering hitboxes reduced from utilt
- Sliding shield stops momentum when grabbing
- Back throw -> Dash attack no longer guaranteed
- Less damage on aerials outside of dair and bair
- Less damage on jab
- Jab cancelling is more difficult
- Fsmash is weaker at low rage. It takes 120+% damage to get a powerful fsmash back
- Default grab is worse
- Counter cannot be B-reversed
- Quick draw has worse IASA frames in its normal cooldown
- Dash attack may have slightly less reach
- Edge slipping a shielded opponent is removed. May work for very powerful attacks if they release shield immediately
- Ge-tup attack is quite laggy
As of 1.04 patch, Ike can use his fair to hit those diagonally below him more easily, despite the range nerf. Fair and bair are now much more viable for kills, along with usmash. Better tilts and jabs gives him the ground pressure he needed and allows him to string powerful hits with good timing and movement.
[collapse=General Physics/Mechanics overview]
Ike still has a great dash -> shield timing period and slide while in shield. He can shield almost right out of a dash if you continue to hold forward. Jab, Dtilt, aerials, and aether are surprisingly good out of shield with this approach. Grab is tougher this time around since his momentum stops if it's the default grab.
Shielding in general is a little different this time around from Brawl. You're required to stay in your shield a few frames longer before releasing, however, shield dropping seems faster this time around. This means that it's safer to turtle up in your shield since you can drop it and retaliate with jab, dtilt, or any other grounded attack quickly. I recommend utilizing both grounded and aerial options out of shield, especially since attacks beat out dash grabs 100% of the time now.
Ike's improved double jump helps him immensely. He can pressure opponents in the air much more efficiently. He can also ledge drop aerials like bair and return without much trouble. You can use more aerials offstage and return safely.
Ike can short hop + air dodge without lag upon landing. Air dodge ends more quickly and seems to be safer while rising. You can easily do a full hop + air dodge at any point during the rise, and have more than enough time to throw anything out afterwards. Ike can also rising full hop air dodge to the side platforms on Battlefield easily.
[collapse= Moveset overview]
Jab 1: 3%
Jab 2: 3%
Jab 3: 5%
Ike's basic jab returns with slightly less damage. Jab1 is the initial punch, jab2 is his kick, and jab3 is the finisher. When it works, it's great.
When should you use jab?
Jab, most notably jab2, is great at interrupting grab and short aerial approaches while not leaving yourself too open to attack. If you have no idea what to do in a neutral position, jab, retreating bair, and pivot grab are all great defensive tools.
When does jab3 work?
Unfortunately, in this game, there is a tendency to pop out for light, floaty characters and get shielded by light, fastfalling characters. Fortunately, this problem can be remedied through the rage mechanic. As Ike's percentage increases, so does the knockback on his attacks.
By the time Ike reaches 40%, jab should be reliable against most characters. Once he reaches 100%, it's practically guaranteed against the entire cast and followups are possible. It's important to know that if you only hit with jab2, it's likely that jab3 will not work against heavy/fastfall characters even at high percents.
Overall, use jab when your percentage is >30-40 and >80 against characters like Greninja and Sheik.
What tricks are available with jab?
Combat walking is still in. If you hold A, Ike continually repeats his jab. If you tap then hold A, Ike performs jab 1->2->then goes back to 1 again. This can be used when hitting opponent. Often times, the second hit of jab misses, and holding A resets his jab back to 1 again. Hitting with 1->2(miss)->1->2->3 is very common.
Any followups after jab?
Indeed. Some good followups for jab are dtilt, utilt, and downward angled ftilt. The first is quick and deals good damage while the latter two can pressure/poke shields if it comes out. If they are close, grab may work if you are at high % after jab1.
Due to the mechanics of the game, players have to deal with lag from an air dodge. Their only way to escape jab1 is to air dodge, aerial against your attacks, or pull away and attempt to shield/dodge upon landing. Often times, people escaping from jab receive this lag penalty, making it possible to get utilt and ftilt off easily.
10% sweetspot, 8% sourspot (up close), 5% sourspot against opponents in the air
Similar to Brawl, but it deals 3% more damage now. That means that it will beat out attacks more easily than it did before. It's still unsafe, so it's easiest to use as a followup or an edgeguard. You can easily hit opponents who don't tech with this.
14% sweetspot, 10% sourspot. It sweetspots anywhere at ground level, and sourspots near the top.
One of Ike's most buffed moves. It will sweetspot if the opponent is anywhere near you. Feels a bit like Brawl DDD's utilt in that regard, but with some disjoint from the sword. Very easy to hit with. Kills training mode Mario at 111%, 112% if the opponent was behind Ike.
8%, Very fast (about as fast as jab) with low endlag.
14%: You can still angle it and you slide if you ftilt out of a pivot. Kills Mario at the edge ~94%
17-23%: kills mario at 97% uncharged and 58% fully charged. Knockback is vertical closest to him on the ground and directly above him in the air.
first hit 14-19%, 2nd hit 17-23%- first hit eats through projectiles and shieldstabs/pushes well. 2nd hit is as strong as upsmash. Use sparingly, since it's decent against shields when fresh.
22-30%- Kills mario at 28% fully charged at the edge of the stage, 55% uncharged
10-35% -lost super armor. Partially charges up to 25% damage. Knockback is upwards and at 25% kills mario at 46%. The last 20% of the charge ALL deal 35% and the same knockback. If you fully charge it, you are dealt 10% damage but knockback/damage doesn't increase.
20%: Super armor is retained once the initial hitbox comes out.
Hold forward/backward to slightly move aether in the air and at startup. Reverse aether is unable to grab the ledge, but you can move backwards more during it. There is knockback while the sword is moving in the air, but once Ike grabs the sword, the opponent is stuck. You can move fowards/backwards at this time and the opponent will be dragged with you.
6-13%. QD slides a bit after it slashes.
Momentum is still carried after freefall mode begins. QD autocancels at full hop height. QD can also easily be performed out of a pivot now.
Counter returns, but it is quite decent this time around. The range is good, usable even against projectiles at short-medium distance. It also lasts quite a while. As with all counters, though, use sparingly. I definitely recommend implementing this move in your gameplay since attacks are emphasized over air dodges in this game.
Counter is weak at hitting those above and below you, however, but it's nice to be invincible against the attack.
9% Our best aerial by far, buffed from Brawl. Great combo potential and easy to hit with. Does push shields when fresh but not by much.
11%: Kills jumping mario at 123%. Similar frame data to brawl, the hitbox starts behind him pretty quickly.
15%: Spikes at the end of the blade. Powerful sweetspot that sends foes horizonatally upwards. Kills Mario at the edge at 97%. No more lingering hitbox. The non-spiking hitbox is good since it can kill onstage now, and you can tech spikes on the ground.
12%: The farthest part of this hitbox is at Ike's head. It's a perfect C shape centered at Ike's head. The move starts earlier with a good hitbox above you and sweeps down. To hit players below you, you have to line Ike's head horizontally with the enemy. Kills mario at the edge at 105%
14%: Same as Brawl. You can short hop and act immediately upon landing. You cannot double jump after a full hop bair, however. Kills Mario at the edge at 88%
All aerials eat through projectiles now.
Uthrow: 3% first hit, 4% second hit: Less hitstun than dthrow, but you can combo others at mid-high percents
Dthrow: 3% first hit, 4% second hit: Very good combo potential up to high percents
Fthrow: 3% first hit, 4% second hit: Offers pretty nice followups up to high percents depending on character weight
Bthrow: 3% first hit, 4% second hit: Even better with followups than fthrow in some cases, but it can send opponents pretty far away
Grab: Same as Brawl, decent against opponents in the air, not so much against short characters
Pivot Grab: Still great against opponents landing from the air
Dash grab: A little better than Brawl's He slides forward a bit more now.
[collapse= Advanced Techniques / Mechanics]
Sliding Eruption: Eruption slides from a run.
B- reverse: After eruption and quick draw, hold the opposite way you're facing to make your momentum go the other way and switch directions. I can't get counter to B-reverse in this game.
Pivoting: You can turnaround when running and attack with these moves: Specials, Up smash (jump cancelled), ftilt, fsmash, and jump->aerial or what have you.
Out of Shield options: Grab, roll, Jump+special, jump+Usmash, jump+aerial, shield drop->fast moves
Power Shield options: If you powershield by timing it correctly, you can act as soon as possible, allowing for heavier punishes.
Vector Influence: Your knockback is influenced by the direction you're holding when hit.
Rage mechanics: You deal more knockback (and potentially hitstun?) when you are at high percents. Noticeable > 100. Very important for fixed/low scaling knockback attacks such as jabs, too.
Crouch Cancelling: You receive less knockback when you get hit out of a crouch.
Air dodge: Ike can short hop + air dodge and not receive any landing lag. In all other cases, cancel your air dodge landing lag with nair or uair.
Dash attack cancelled grab: I'm not sure, but Ike seems to have an alright one. Dash attack with A then immediately press the grab button right afterwards. The slide is ever so slightly greater.
Almost every Brawl AT that has not been listed is likely to be present in Smash 4.
[collapse= Combos/Followups (VI/Rage dependent)]
*If you have a choice of fair or uair in a combo, I recommend fair.
All of these are done in training mode. In an actual match, you have the 105% fresh multiplier and staling to deal with.
Nair->Grab->Uthrow->Aether: 34% (not sure, may only work with certain characters and VI dependent on the throw)
Nair->Combat Walk (hold A, Jab1->2(miss)->1->2->3): 23%
Nair->tilts, aerials, etc. Nair -> fair is very effective
Grab->Dthrow/Uthrow->Aether (VI dependent for uthrow, fair/uair are much better)
Grab->Dthrow->Fair(top hitbox), Uair, nair
Nair->Ftilt angled upwards 23%
Short hop fair->Dtilt->Fair
Dthrow->Fair/Uair with a quick double jump ~20%
Quickdraw can be held to cover techs and rolls
Dthrow->Fair/Uair with a quick double jump, may miss with good VI/high rage ~20%
Uthrow->Fair/Nair/Uair with a quick double jump. Best at percents where dthrow throws too high ~20%
Nair -> Bair, needs a back hit and must be quick, 22%
Nair -> Aether, ~28%
Dair grounded spike hitbox non-tech -> ???. It seems like you can even get upsmash out of this, but I can't really tell
Dair spike -> ??? still works at high percent
Grab-> Uthrow -> Uair/Fair
The throw is VI dependent. If you get there quick enough, uair covers most of their options and lasts long enough for a full air dodge.
[collapse=Best competitive videos]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebkGDy4w6q0 - Ike vs Ness: Submitted by @A2ZOMG
-Shows good use of spacing nair and dtilt
-Good aerial followups
-Nice use of eruption edgeguard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJv_9hWwCJY - Gregi (Ike) vs Kirby/Greninja/Duck Hunt: Submitted by @A2ZOMG
-Emphasizes the importance of spacing nair and how it leads to easy followups and combos
-Provides a good gameplan against speedy and campy characters.