Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[Arrei]

I think it'd turn the Ike strategy into "Jab all day erry day". If Ike could do 16-25% just jabbing and canceling with his new mobility and other moves' frame data he'd probably have one of the highest damage output abilities on the roster.

 

[Xuan Wu]

I consider Link's pre-1.0.6. Jab to be the equivalent of Ike's SSBB Jab due to their canceling properties.

Link was able to cancel his Jab 1 into other attacks, like D-smash. Had Ike retained his SSBB Jab, not only would he be able to inflict 16%+ damage in a single move as before, he would be able to link his Jabs into other attacks, such as D-tilt, more reliably as well.

I imagine having it would be a considerable improvement to SSB4 Ike, especially when coupled with his buffed attributes, such as his improved combo ability. After all, his Jab alone was largely responsible for solidifying his placement in the current SSBB tier list.

^-^

 

[Mario766]

After using it for a little while I'm seeing just how stupid Tempest is.

Shulk literally can't recover low against Tempest and Tempest has super armor for if he tries to go through you. I know Eruption works as well, but for those moments where he won't die to Eruption, Tempest sets him up for either a spike or another edgeguard situation.

 

[Ekans647]

I prefer Furious Eruption. It covers all options and KO'es so early. I could never use Tempest all to well, but I can how it would be though.

 

[Arrei]

Windboxes in general are just disgustingly effective in some situations. Many of the windbox customs make using Aether exceedingly dangerous, as well.

 

[Mario766]

I prefer Furious Eruption. It covers all options and KO'es so early. I could never use Tempest all to well, but I can how it would be though.

Furious Eruption actually KOs slower than Eruption does. It just has a bigger hitbox.

 

[-RedX-]

The hitbox also stays out longer. Very useful to cover almost all ledge options.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I still really miss Quick Draw jabs, though.

But what I don't miss is killing yourself because you got pushed off the edge and did an Nair.

The worst part was that it was a douchebag tactic players used on purpose to gimp and exploit you.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Starting a Ike skype group for theory crafting of match ups and his metagame in general, would like to keep it strictly for this though so add my skype if interested. @Codyisikelol

I got a few Ike's in there atm.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I find that aether drive is good against any character that can take advantage of your regular aether by gimping you as your doing it. Marth/Lucina/

 

[Arrei]

When customs come into play, I'm actually a little terrified of what'll happen to Aether when we go up against DKs running Storm Punch and Kong Cyclone.

Also, I'm noticing I don't really know what to do when my opponent is trying to wall me out by jumping forward, throwing out a long range or long lasting hitbox like Fox's Fair or one of Rosalina's aerials, and then retreating in mid-jump, since Fair has more start-up than a lot of these. Anyone got any insight to share on that?

 

[doom dragon 105]

Any suggestions for edge guarding?

 

[the king of murder]

Any suggestions for edge guarding?

Eruption on the ledge works against the majority of the cast if your timing is right since the hitbox is huge. Other decent edgeguards include Fair(because of it's meaty range and power) and Dair even if you hit them with the non-spike part(the tip of the sword spikes btw).

If they recover high, you can catch them with Ikes aerials or even F-smash them though that will only happen if you read an airdodge.

 

[Linkmario00]

Only characters that Ike has issue edgeguarding are ones who teleport themselves to the ledge (Mewtwo, Shiek) and ones who have multiple jumps and can pass over you (Jiggly). If only Ike could grab the ledge when doing Aether backwards, he would have the absolutely best edgeguarding of the game (Eruption is almost a guaranteed kill if charged enough and aether would be a guaranteed kill catching an opponent in the air while not facing the edge, spike them but at the same time grabbing the ledge)

 

[xBlitz]

Only characters that Ike has issue edgeguarding are ones who teleport themselves to the ledge (Mewtwo, Shiek) and ones who have multiple jumps and can pass over you (Jiggly). If only Ike could grab the ledge when doing Aether backwards, he would have the absolutely best edgeguarding of the game (Eruption is almost a guaranteed kill if charged enough and aether would be a guaranteed kill catching an opponent in the air while not facing the edge, spike them but at the same time grabbing the ledge)

reverse aether with a stock lead isn't the worst strat; if you whiff, retreat to ledge, if you snag them early, dunk them. also ledge trump dsmash or fsmash is blessssssed

 

[doom dragon 105]

I have always read how Eruption works as an edge guard, I never never seen it be applied where it works. I always see people get punished and I myself get punished

 

[Ekans647]

Timing and Spacing are crucial to Eruption edge guards. Too close and your opponent will be able to attack you. Too far and it won't connect. Even if you read them properly, the timing can be tricky. It takes practice to use, but I can be quite effective.

 

[Arrei]

It's easiest to practice on predictable recoveries with no upper hitbox like Captain Falcon's, Ganondorf's, and Robin's recoveries. Any recovery with a hitbox above the user is more difficult to read, as you either have to stand further from the edge, which means you only have the three frames of the explosion to work with instead of Ragnell's five frames, or you have to predict how your opponent will react and release your attack at just the right moment. This involves learning the sweetspot heights of other characters' recoveries, so that you know when a character like Mario or Marth will be absolutely forced to use his recovery or when he still has the option of hitting you in the face.

Beware of getting sharked by an attack under the ledge as well on stages like Battlefield, but such stages also usually mean you can blow them away with Eruption while they're under the ledge if you time it well.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Is there video of someone doing it in a match multiple times?

 

[Oblivion129]

Is there video of someone doing it in a match multiple times?

I uploaded this a while ago for demonstration. It's not something rare for Ike to do, so if you find Ike gameplay you'll probably find an Eruption KO. You can look for Ryo, San, Ryuga, RedX and a few other Ikes on youtube.

 

[-RedX-]

I landed it on Sheik's recovery a few months ago but that archive is long gone due to twitch's policy.
It's really easy to time once you remember certain animations/sound cues for certain recoveries. The harder ones are quicker recoveries where you have to predict how/when the opposing character will recover.

 

[Arrei]

I have a few replays involving Eruption kills, but I have no idea which ones they are anymore. My last FG bout actually involved landing it on a few Quick Attacks and a Skull Bash from a Pikachu player.

I think teleport recoveries should actually be some of the easier ones to hit with Eruption. They always take the same amount of time to reach the ledge no matter how far they initiate the move from, so all it really takes is figuring out the proper time to release the attack.

 

[xBlitz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7nHajUhfqk application of the eruption edge guard vs Falcon. I'd hit sheik's out of upB with it on wifi friendlies, if I play a Sheik at goml2 on stream you can bet I'll at least go for it

 

[the king of murder]

Speaking about edgeguarding, have you guys tried spiking teleport users(Shiek especially) out of their Up-B as they try to sweetspot the ledge? I know Eruption is more reliable but we sometimes don't have enough time to really charge it enough for the KO where as we can spike them to death. The timing is stricter than Eruption though, so I guess kinda situational but maybe food for thought.

 

[Arrei]

It's certainly possible, but horribly unfeasible with Ike's Dair, with only 2 active frames, a ridiculously small spike hitbox, and I think it was 14 frames of startup in addition to the time it takes to aim the attack just right, plus Ike really not being comfortable offstage against anyone with gimping capabilities. You'd be better off trying to hit them with FSmash instead if you're really hungry for that early kill.

 

[SoundChow]

I have a question on Ike's jab. At 3:12 in this video, it looks like Ryo is cancelling his jab in to another jab. Is this a true combo and what are the inputs for this?

 

[Mario766]

It's not a true combo, when Ike's jab 2 misses you can string it back to jab 1. You do this by holding A after you miss jab 2 so you don't do jab 3. In the second match you see him do it but the Ganondorf was able to shield after he reset.

 

[MaximalGFX]

So, eh... Characters with quick Counters (Marth, lucina, palutena) can really screw your recovery with Aether if you don't space it right. You need to make sure Ike doesn't go over the ledge if they counter so it won't hit you.

 

[Naf2pro]

So, eh... Character with quick Counter (Marth, lucina, palutena) can really screw your recovery with Aether if you don't space it right. You need to make sure Ike doesn't go over the ledge if they counter so it won't hit you.

Yeaaaaaah I'm still kinda practicing that myself

 

[GhostUrsa]

So, eh... Characters with quick Counters (Marth, lucina, palutena) can really screw your recovery with Aether if you don't space it right. You need to make sure Ike doesn't go over the ledge if they counter so it won't hit you.

Depending on the stage, you can force their counter to fire backwards too by sharking Ragnell behind them. With Marth and Lucina, their counter's range isn't large enough to hit you if they try to step back from the ledge to abuse the sharking. Palutena is a little harder since I believe she takes a step while she counters, which grants her slightly more range.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Does dtilt guarantee fair?

 

[Sol0ke]

I don't believe so, I think it depends on the opponent's DI and their character.

 

[Arrei]

I believe it guarantees it at around 8%-40%, varying by weight. Seemed like landing a Dtilt at 0% never kept the target in hitstun long enough to follow up with Fair. I'm hardly the most qualified to make that guess, though.

 

[san.]

I've been meaning to write a lot more about the intricacies that I've been developing over the months, but I need to know what everyone think is best:

-1. Update this OP with the information. The OP will become quite a wall of text, even more than it already is (and it already has a lot of outdated stuff I may just delete). Chances are that people won't really see it much, though.

-2. Periodically create new threads detailing the information. I think this is the most accessible option, and the information is self-contained. I will just add links to these threads in the OP.

-3. Create videos. I have no video editing nor do I have people to practice with (many of these are too difficult to perform online), so they may be boring. It may not have all the details of the previous 2, but it'll show how to do certain things better. This will also take the longest by far and I don't have many video editing skills.

I like the 2nd option best so I don't bloat this OP too much. I want to talk about things like footstool setups, combos/strings, recovery, and controls.

 

[Oblivion129]

I've been meaning to write a lot more about the intricacies that I've been developing over the months, but I need to know what everyone think is best:

-1. Update this OP with the information. The OP will become quite a wall of text, even more than it already is (and it already has a lot of outdated stuff I may just delete). Chances are that people won't really see it much, though.

-2. Periodically create new threads detailing the information. I think this is the most accessible option, and the information is self-contained. I will just add links to these threads in the OP.

-3. Create videos. I have no video editing nor do I have people to practice with (many of these are too difficult to perform online), so they may be boring. It may not have all the details of the previous 2, but it'll show how to do certain things better. This will also take the longest by far and I don't have many video editing skills.

I like the 2nd option best so I don't bloat this OP too much. I want to talk about things like footstool setups, combos/strings, recovery, and controls.

I also think option 2 is the best, and let someone else demonstrate with a video if need be.

 

[SoundChow]

I've been meaning to write a lot more about the intricacies that I've been developing over the months, but I need to know what everyone think is best:

-1. Update this OP with the information. The OP will become quite a wall of text, even more than it already is (and it already has a lot of outdated stuff I may just delete). Chances are that people won't really see it much, though.

-2. Periodically create new threads detailing the information. I think this is the most accessible option, and the information is self-contained. I will just add links to these threads in the OP.

-3. Create videos. I have no video editing nor do I have people to practice with (many of these are too difficult to perform online), so they may be boring. It may not have all the details of the previous 2, but it'll show how to do certain things better. This will also take the longest by far and I don't have many video editing skills.

I like the 2nd option best so I don't bloat this OP too much. I want to talk about things like footstool setups, combos/strings, recovery, and controls.

You should do the second one and just link the threads into the main post.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

2, with some 3 thrown in where it would help a lot to have a visual aid.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

@ san. I wouldn't mind option 1 or 2. I like what @ SoundChow was saying, about making new threads, but linking them from the OP of this thread. I feel like this thread should contain all of the useful information, even if it does link somewhere else. And of course videos would be nice, but if it's too much to ask for, then don't worry about it.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Edge guarding teletopters? Any suggestions?

 

[Aquasition]

Edge guarding teletopters? Any suggestions?

Depends on the Teleporter. Just remember that there is a frame of grabbing the ledge in which you are vulnerable.



Palutena, Sheik: Their Teleports are slow enough to be caught by Eruption if they go for the ledge.

Mewtwo: Lacks the range, but is a fast teleport. Might be difficult to intercept

Zelda: Eruption if you suspect they're going for the ledge, Counter if you think they're trying to hit you