Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[Planet God Venus]

He sure does. Ryuga is amazing at it. He secures a KO with ledge trump B-air about five minutes in and also uses it in later matches.

^-^

oo

 

[Xuan Wu]

oo

Oh. It's you, Ryuga. Curious. Which of Ike's 1.0.8. buffs would you say benefited your gameplay the most? ^-^

 

[Planet God Venus]

Oh. It's you, Ryuga. Curious. Which of Ike's 1.0.8. buffs would you say benefited your gameplay the most? ^-^

Dash attack

 

[1337Kai]

Oh. It's you, Ryuga. Curious. Which of Ike's 1.0.8. buffs would you say benefited your gameplay the most? ^-^

For me I'd say f-air, it connects into grab a lot easier, leading to some pretty nice combos. And because of the reduced ending lag, it makes it better in the neutral. F-tilt and dash attack are also amazing now.

 

[san.]

For me I'd say f-air, it connects into grab a lot easier, leading to some pretty nice combos. And because of the reduced ending lag, it makes it better in the neutral. F-tilt and dash attack are also amazing now.

Definitely definitely definitely fair's change. Well, so many things now that I think about it.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Is anyone working on an Ike guide? I've heard many times before that someone is coming out with one but I have yet to see any

 

[san.]

Is anyone working on an Ike guide? I've heard many times before that someone is coming out with one but I have yet to see any

Too laazy. I'm slowly making videos on little tidbits here and there at http://youtube.com/san3711 but other than that, I don't really feel like editing and re-editing once the next patch hits. I may spontaneously feel like doing so in the future, but I have to figure out what exactly I want to put down.

 

[Mario766]

Ryo is making one, according to MVG.

 

[Linkmario00]

Talking about Ryo, in this video he makes some uses of footstool setups and lock. He didn't overextend right at the start at the video, but it seems to me it's possible to get another footstool right after the Upair. Can we discuss about it?

 

[-RedX-]

The second footstool isn't as easy to get as the first, so most of the time it's best just to finish after the Uair(or Nair if it's a short character) on forced getup.
I'd go for it if it's somebody with a big frame/low air mobility.

 

[san.]

Talking about Ryo, in this video he makes some uses of footstool setups and lock. He didn't overextend right at the start at the video, but it seems to me it's possible to get another footstool right after the Upair. Can we discuss about it?

It would've worked with 1.0.8 uair, but 1.10.0's extra knockback made it a little awkward for Ryo to footstool a second time. The second footstool still works and I still recommend going for it if you are confident you can get more than 14% from it.

 

[the king of murder]

Did some fooling around in training mode and it seems like Fair to dash grab is a combo at 0-15% if you hit an opponent on the ground. Against heavy characters it seems to work at 20% as well. It is basically Nair 2.0, haha. Tested it with Shiek, Mario and DK.

 

[Arrei]

This is more of a general Counter thing, but do Counters scale weirdly with Shulk's Buster? With 61% damage on me, Countering a Buster Ftilt killed Shulk all the way from the opposite ledge on Omega. He had 97% damage after taking the hit. Ftilt's not a heavy attack to begin with and Buster is supposed to reduce knockback, yet Counter just destroyed him.

 

[Mario766]

Damage increases knockback heavily, so the extra damage from F-Tilt makes counter deal more damage which in turn multiplies the KB increase.


Also bad DI is possible.

 

[Arrei]

Possible, but it had red lightning so even if DI would have saved him it would have been brutal knockback from a mere Buster Ftilt.

I guess Ike's Counter has some pretty high scaling even without stopping an attack with high knockback, although no one but Buster Shulk would have any moves that could show it off.

 

[Mario766]

Counter got a really good KBG from 1.0.6, it has 100 KBG and does 1.2x of Shulk's already 1.4x bonus damage.

13 x 1.4 x 1.2x 1.13 = 24.6. Massive.

 

[Arrei]

Crikey, that many multipliers will certainly do it. That results in a counter harder than most uncharged smash attacks, if I'm not mistaken.

And then there's freshness to throw into the mix. Come to think of it, do counters double dip on the 5% freshness bonus if both the blocked attack and the counter itself are fresh?

 

[Mario766]

I doubt it.

That does more than Ike ANYTHING un-charged.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Theoretically speaking, how successful could one be using ledge trump + Aether for the insta-spike kill?

Not only that, but under any circumstance where we're on the ledge, couldn't we just get players to be close to us while they recover, causing Aether to hit and forcing them down? As opposed to just simply trying to bait them to the ledge.

Skip to 2:36

We could try this on the recovery of a Rosalina or Mega Man. If we know how to pull it off, we can 86 them in a 0-death after knocking them off. But we need to know the difference between getting them through that ledge and not smacking them back onto the stage.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Aetherspike requires Ike to hit them with the downward strike of the blow while snapping to the ledge at our maximum grab range. (For those playing the home game.) I'd say it's a bit more difficult than setting up a regular off-stage spike for Ike, as Spiking has us only needing to take into account our opponents potential position compared to ours instead of our position, their position and where the ledge is. I don't know the possibility of performing it on a fast moving target as you'll have to take into account Rosie's trajectory and speed into account, but I know I've accidentally spiked her off the side of the stage by clipping her with the upward strike and she crashed into the wall (She was using Launch star for recovery) instead of being knocked up into my downward strike.

If I had to make an educated guess I'd say the odds are low, but if I'm offstage and so are they (thus prompting a race to the snap) there is no reason not to try. Worst case scenario, you both snap shortly after each other and the match continues. One possible scenario is that your slight delay in snapping to the ledge may prompt a ledge hog where we can attempt to use b-air. Practice will be required to get the max horizontal snap range of Aether into muscle memory, but such a skill would definitely grant Ike a potential 5th option for edge guarding. (After Eruption, Counter, off stage aerials and spiking)

BTW, nice capitalizing on The Dorf's whiff!

 

[Banjobeast158]

Theoretically speaking, how successful could one be using ledge trump + Aether for the insta-spike kill?

Not only that, but under any circumstance where we're on the ledge, couldn't we just get players to be close to us while they recover, causing Aether to hit and forcing them down? As opposed to just simply trying to bait them to the ledge.

Skip to 2:36

We could try this on the recovery of a Rosalina or Mega Man. If we know how to pull it off, we can 86 them in a 0-death after knocking them off. But we need to know the difference between getting them through that ledge and not smacking them back onto the stage.

Nice game!

Hello! i was hoping some of y'all could help me with foot stooling..I am having some trouble getting it down. Are there some tricks to it or does it just take a hell of a lot of practice

 

[san.]

I'm thinking of making another guide for advanced players only. Eventually, I may come back and edit this with more beginner stuff. What do people think about that? It'll mostly start off text based and slowly add more graphical stuff.

 

[Mario766]

Anything is appreciated

 

[AN(M)ist]

yep. ditto

 

[Arrei]

So, I know that if an attack with high hitlag happens to catch an entity that can take damage but is separate from the fighter that created it, such as Olimar's Pikmin, the hitlag from striking the entity will extend the attack's active frames, turning our lovely Eruption into a veritable wall of death in a scenario such as unleashing it while Ike has Pikmin attached to him.

But does anyone know if this extends to Villager's Balloon Trip? Opportunities to slam an Eruption on him are rare on account of his projectile wall when returning to the stage, but the last time I did, everything noticeably slowed down as Eruption popped one balloon, then the other, then Villager himself. Is Villager vulnerable to the extended frames if he rises into the hitbox off of his remaining balloon or the slight vertical gain from popping both, or is he also receiving hitlag from each balloon burst and he just so happened to get killed by what would have been frames 3-5 of the blast?

 

[doom dragon 105]

People who don't play Ike's trip out when you nail them with an eruption as an edge guard :D it's funny

Anyways, I am having trouble with the fox match-up. Any advice?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So, I know that if an attack with high hitlag happens to catch an entity that can take damage but is separate from the fighter that created it, such as Olimar's Pikmin, the hitlag from striking the entity will extend the attack's active frames, turning our lovely Eruption into a veritable wall of death in a scenario such as unleashing it while Ike has Pikmin attached to him.

But does anyone know if this extends to Villager's Balloon Trip? Opportunities to slam an Eruption on him are rare on account of his projectile wall when returning to the stage, but the last time I did, everything noticeably slowed down as Eruption popped one balloon, then the other, then Villager himself. Is Villager vulnerable to the extended frames if he rises into the hitbox off of his remaining balloon or the slight vertical gain from popping both, or is he also receiving hitlag from each balloon burst and he just so happened to get killed by what would have been frames 3-5 of the blast?

So you're saying if you have Pikmin on you, get close to Olimar and use Eruption, thus extending the active frames?

 

[Arrei]

Not really - it just makes edgeguarding Olimar easier if he tries to chuck Pikmin at you while recovering to lighten his load. Blasting his Pikmin off of you will cause you to freeze for a few frames, but your hitbox is still active while frozen. Meanwhile Olimar is still trying to recover, straight into the extended hitbox.

My question is if Villager's balloons are considered separate from him when popped.

 

[san.]

Anything is appreciated

May take a few weeks since I get home tired and may go to a tournament this weekend.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Not really - it just makes edgeguarding Olimar easier if he tries to chuck Pikmin at you while recovering to lighten his load. Blasting his Pikmin off of you will cause you to freeze for a few frames, but your hitbox is still active while frozen. Meanwhile Olimar is still trying to recover, straight into the extended hitbox.

My question is if Villager's balloons are considered separate from him when popped.

Only thing is good Olimar players know how to slow down his recovery, so Eruption becomes that much harder to hit with.

Naturally, though, without Balloon armor, Olimar just needs one solid Bair into the stage to go flying away for good.

 

[Arrei]

That's where the hitlag comes in. If Olimar hurls his Pikmin at you to lighten his load and get more control over his recovery, you can purposely attach them to you to get more frames to hit him with.

 

[Mario766]

Unless he throws a purple and hits you.

 

[Arrei]

Well, yeah, but I'd assume we're at least prescient enough to know what would happen if we tried that while he's able to chuck a purple at us.

 

[the king of murder]

Honestly, just throwing projectiles at Ike in general especially offstage is a really dangerous thing. Ike has such a huge range and some projectiles have quite some startup which means I can smack them before they pull anything out. I got a lot of early kills with Fair offstage against Villagers, Link and Olimars because a lot of them panic offstage of the threat of Eruption and throw their **** at me.

Also, with the right timing you can slap Link with Dash Attack before he pulls out any of his projectiles because of that.

 

[Planet God Venus]

How do you guys feel about ledge trumping at high-top level play? I landed one on Ally and secured game 5 with ledge pressure from him thinking I was gonna ledge trump(roll read up tilt)

 

[san.]

How do you guys feel about ledge trumping at high-top level play? I landed one on Ally and secured game 5 with ledge pressure from him thinking I was gonna ledge trump(roll read up tilt)

Very useful. It makes it so that they can't remain complacent at the edge. The issue is if Ike has options against their buffed ledge options. I believe he does.

It's one important trick of many that can be used.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Honestly, just throwing projectiles at Ike in general especially offstage is a really dangerous thing. Ike has such a huge range and some projectiles have quite some startup which means I can smack them before they pull anything out. I got a lot of early kills with Fair offstage against Villagers, Link and Olimars because a lot of them panic offstage of the threat of Eruption and throw their **** at me.

Also, with the right timing you can slap Link with Dash Attack before he pulls out any of his projectiles because of that.

I fought a Robin and mixed up Eruption. On his second stock, he went low and I simply Dair spiked him at 20ish percent.

 

[1337Kai]

People who don't play Ike's trip out when you nail them with an eruption as an edge guard :D it's funny

Anyways, I am having trouble with the fox match-up. Any advice?

Play patiently. Ike doesn't have very good frame data compared to Fox and most Fox's punish game is on f*cking point.Take advantage of Fox's recovery. If you're gonna use Eruption to edge guard, practice the timing of when Fox uses his side b or up b to recover. Because of the slow start up of Fox's up b, it's easy to land spikes on him. You'll be safe from the hit box of it due to Ike's dair spike is at the tip of the blade. In the latest patch, Fox can now gimp easier with down b. Make sure to counter it and you may land a stage spike on him. And since Fox's recovery options have hit boxes on them, it's easy to counter them, potentially gimping or even killing them at high %. Other than that, I don't play many Fox mains, so I may not know what I'm talking about . In general, don't throw out laggy or easily punishable moves, because punishing is Fox's greatest asset.

 

[Arrei]

Is there anything we can get off of a Dtilt at 0%? The hitstun at 0 is too short for Fair to connect, but would something like a quick RAR Bair work?

 

[-RedX-]

Try Utilt.