Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[EyexSore]

Should I be using his Usmash as my main kill move? Or is there a better option?

 

[GhostUrsa]

Usmash will probably become you're most used move, since it can be used OoS and a bunch of other scenarios. As for better options, all of Ike's moves are situational so you'll want to adapt to what your opponent is doing to maximize your efforts in taking the stock. I've even used tilts to KO, so it's better to know when to use different moves than having one 'defaulted' in. Especially since predictability is a major hurdle for Ike.

 

[EyexSore]

Ok, thanks. I was just wondering because I use it all the time. (Actually helped me best a sonic main at a school tournament)

 

[Arrei]

Your main kill moves will be
-Eruption edgeguards
-Ftilt at the edge
-Utilt and USmash (the former is recommended over the latter if you can get an opening, USmash is certainly more powerful and has more coverage but it's also slower and more punishable)
-Bair from just about anywhere
-Fairs at the edges if you can chase the opponent there without getting ended yourself - retreating Fair is good for reading rolls and safer than committing to USmash.
-Uair, preferably after reading an airdodge and possibly fastfalling to catch your opponent in its lingering hitbox
-Dthrow at 130%+ at the earliest depending on rage and enemy weight if you can't find enough openings to land something heavier (Full rage Dthrow kills Shiek at 126% even with DI)

Against Sonic specifically a running USmash does wonders if it causes him to miss a Homing Attack, because then he's wide open for a heaping helping of Ragnell.

 

[EyexSore]

"Heaping Helping of Ragnell" That's gotta be the best thing I've heard in a while. And I'll take all that into consideration. I abuse the Usmash way too much.

 

[AN(M)ist]

I might write up something if there's enough demand about how to be faster. To put it simply, it's making use of fastfalls, dashes, and momentum shifts from your double jump intelligently.

I would really appreciate some more in depth explanations regarding this San. Specifically the momentum shift from double jump, I dont think I've paid attention to this before.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Me too, i watch you guys move like sonic and I'm just walking around lol

 

[Mario766]

You really have to get used to dashing, foxtrotting and pivoting to get good movement. Smart fast falls helps out too. Stay on the enemy or play defensive, your call.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Can you hit someone trying to sweet spot the ledge with a Utilt? I haven't tried it, but someone on the Falco boards mentioned it.

 

[GhostUrsa]

@ Banjobeast158 Not with our U-tilt, no. At least, not unless they miss it and go above the ledge a little. Our U-tilt has a great range, but it doesn't start under Ike's feet so the hitbox wouldn't be much good for edge-guarding low recoveries. I've seen Up-smash hit someone without invincible frames from the ledge, but that only works if they are bouncing from the ledge. Eruption is our best weapon against most opponent's attempts to snap to the ledge.

 

[Mario766]

You can punish the 2 frame vulnerability of get-up with up tilt. If you miss you get hit tho

 

[Mario766]

One really nice combo I've been trying to lab out is nair -> up tilt on fast fallers. It puts enemies in a pretty awful position, straight up compared to just off stage and could lead into an air dodge read situation with up air. It works about the same time as Nair -> F-Air. You can hit with the sweet spot for 23 damage or the sour spot for 19 damage. Once they fly too far away you should be able to chase with F-Air or RAR B-Air.

 

[MarioMeteor]

After about half a year of seconding Ike, I just now found out that up throw to back air combos.

 

[Mario766]

It does but down throw is almost always a better option for combo throws outside of up throw up air.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It does but down throw is almost always a better option for combo throws outside of up throw up air.

I don't see how. The knockback scaling on down throw is too huge to be of any combo use at high percents. Up throw has relatively low knockback, so it can be used at higher percents.

 

[Mario766]

At higher percents it isnt a combo at all with either throw

 

[Arrei]

Uthrow does seem to maintain combo ability from a single hop for a little longer than Dthrow does scaling-wise, though, particularly against characters with floaty air velocity. But I've never been able to get the double-jump throw combos to work online.

 

[Solutionme]

I found another Ike vs. Shulk video. ^-^

The match-up, in my opinion, looks like it ranges from about neutral to fairly hard, especially when against a Shulk that makes full use of his arts. Based on the first match, we can see Shulk's recovery is overall worse than Ike's since he lacks a move that allows him to recover horizontally. Keep him a good horizontal distance away from the stage and he is done for.

I know this is old and all but the fact jump monado gives good air speed means shulk has no need to even rely on his recovery a majority of the time. Ike just loses sadly due to being slower, riskier due to the despite large range, being short compared to Shulk. However Shulk is garbage at killing and a smart Ike will keep himself alive long enough and the reason why I say shulk is garbage at killing is because his set-ups mainly use his arts so just smart maneuvering and baiting on the part of the Ike player guarantees an easy kill since Shulk has some bad landing and ending lag on certain moves, which tend to be the ones he uses to kill. But Shulk wins in this MU due to being faster and being able to recover better, while outranging Ike.

 

[GhostUrsa]

@ Solutionme The problem with your example though is that you are mentioning a specific Shulk player that prefers to use Jump for superior off-stage game instead of the other arts. Though a good Shulk player will use the best art for the moment, they will rarely use jump with the intent to abuse Ike offstage as Ike doesn't go offstage often. Against Shulk, he doesn't have to since he can abuse his higher jump returning with his own f-air (which beats out Shulk's) or with a good Eruption. Hell, I've even used Counter to abuse his Air Slash recovery if he tries to offense his way back to the ledge.

Most Shulk players seem to focus on Speed or Shield if they are on defensive against Ike on stage in order to either out-tank or out-space him before focusing on taking the stock. When sent flying, in order to use Jump they'd have to activate the art while free-falling towards the blast zone while also monitoring what I'll do as an edge-guarding. In a vacuum, jump will individually beat out most of our options, but the issue here becomes the player's ability to multitask 4 different things at the same time. (The blastzone, their momentum, their art cycle and my position) In this case, unless the specific player is an expert they'll struggle to get back.

If they are such an expert, they most likely wont be found in such a situation where they'd need to switch to Jump while recovering. It is possible they could use Jump against Ike (as it does allow him to better out-manuever us in the air) and their for setup such a situation, but on stage Speed, Shield and Buster seem to work much better as they turn him more into the character types that give Ike trouble.

I'd still think Shulk's MU with Ike is either even or slightly (55/45) in Shulk's favor at worst despite this. The extra layer of depth to Shulk is both his blessing and curse against Ike.

 

[the king of murder]

Hey there, I haven't seen a question and answer thread so I believe this is the best place to ask

1. How do you handle the Villager MU? His slingshots wall me out, his edgeguard FSmash and tree are just nasty and I never get an opportunity to edgeguard him myself.

2. A Marth counter edgeguarded me. I tried recovering deep as possible with Aether but he still hit me. How can I deal with this?

3. In general how should Ike play in neutral? I usually play careful and try to outspace my opponents with my aerials and D-tilt until I get an opening where I go full aggro. Maybe there is a better alternative?

4. Kinda embarassing to ask but how do I deal with rolling people? I tried pivot F-tilt and retreating Nairs and it somewhat works but people who roll away from me are still kinda hard to deal with.

 

[Arrei]

1. Against Villager, you'll generally have more success staying on the ground. Block the Lloid Rockets he sends at you, but be ready to evade his approaches afterward - generally a dash attack, grab, or Nair/Dair. Jumping can work if you're not predictable with your movement, but a tall target like Ike really hates the slingshot. Villager struggles more when his opponent is able to stay on his tail after closing the gap, so make the most of it any time you get in on him.

2. Counters are some of the deadliest edgeguards against Aether. The only real way to get around it is to simply not get in a position where you need to use Aether. Against Marth, most of his attacks will send you high, so you can get back by saving your double jump or using Quick Draw. Saving the double jump is especially key, because if you squander it, you could easily get gimped at low percent by an Fair chain. If you're really forced to use Aether, then your only hope is to keep an eye on where he's waiting for you and try to avoid hitting him with Ragnell. Alternatively, use Aether early - if he counters Ragnell as you throw it, he'll swing too soon to hit you. However, he could still get you when you come back down, so try to get on the stage rather than the ledge.

3. That's generally the way to play Ike, but make sure you're using jabs liberally, as well. Since Ike doesn't have many long-lasting hitboxes, it's his main way of getting in on someone who's good at spot-dodging. Jab1 is quick and has decent range, and you can have some success canceling the jab and going for a dash grab or Dtilt. Jab2 has high range and can stop some opponents' approaches. Just make sure you can stop yourself from finishing the combo if you get blocked.

4. If an opponent rolls away from you, all you can really do is chase after them. Don't use the dash attack unless you get a good read. If they roll through you, you can do turn around jab to cover all of their remaining dodge frames, or use Ftilt if you read their roll. Depending on your spacing, retreating Fair is decent at reading rolls without too much endlag, especially when edgeguarding. If you're a little too early to catch them but still positioned correctly, you can follow up with a jab.

 

[Solutionme]

@ Solutionme The problem with your example though is that you are mentioning a specific Shulk player that prefers to use Jump for superior off-stage game instead of the other arts. Though a good Shulk player will use the best art for the moment, they will rarely use jump with the intent to abuse Ike offstage as Ike doesn't go offstage often. Against Shulk, he doesn't have to since he can abuse his higher jump returning with his own f-air (which beats out Shulk's) or with a good Eruption. Hell, I've even used Counter to abuse his Air Slash recovery if he tries to offense his way back to the ledge.

Most Shulk players seem to focus on Speed or Shield if they are on defensive against Ike on stage in order to either out-tank or out-space him before focusing on taking the stock. When sent flying, in order to use Jump they'd have to activate the art while free-falling towards the blast zone while also monitoring what I'll do as an edge-guarding. In a vacuum, jump will individually beat out most of our options, but the issue here becomes the player's ability to multitask 4 different things at the same time. (The blastzone, their momentum, their art cycle and my position) In this case, unless the specific player is an expert they'll struggle to get back.

If they are such an expert, they most likely wont be found in such a situation where they'd need to switch to Jump while recovering. It is possible they could use Jump against Ike (as it does allow him to better out-manuever us in the air) and their for setup such a situation, but on stage Speed, Shield and Buster seem to work much better as they turn him more into the character types that give Ike trouble.

I'd still think Shulk's MU with Ike is either even or slightly (55/45) in Shulk's favor at worst despite this. The extra layer of depth to Shulk is both his blessing and curse against Ike.

While typing out a response i was thinking about what I was typing and at this point I agree. But there are other things which play into ti as well since Ike has a good ledge game which Shulk clearly does not and a good eruption would pretty much wipe Shulk out. Using aether to steal the ledge is pretty good too and if they decide to regrab the ledge you could go for another aether and spike them. Shulk would have to be careful with what monados he chooses since a few good clean hits from Ike can make him lose the advantage. Hits which Ike is able to do and mix-up a lot better than Shulk too imo since Shulk has this disgusting over-reliance on the least laggy of his aerials that cover the most distance.

So you're right about the defensive gameplay since Shulk has to hit at the farthest range possible and wait for mistakes on Ike's part that he can take advantage of. Ike's smashes cover areas better as well compared to Shulk's but Shulk's monados help him kill early on a good read but Ike can take advantage of that with a smart counter. However I believe hulk ultimately has the better matchup because his jump monado makes it easy for him to gimp Ike, his speed monado makes it difficult for Ike to keep the neutral and forces Ike to play the defensive for glory roll game. Damage monado can also juggle well and hurt Ike pretty hard pretty quick around mid-percents I believe and Shield monado helps Shulk keep the neutral at his typical death percents. Smash monado just helps get the kill though imo it isn't much of an issue due to ike being easy to gimp with jump monado, footstooling probably being the silliest way to do it.

Honestly I'd say the MU you put up is about right, Ike for sure has the better specials and smashes with his d-tilt and u-tilt imo being superior, but the fact that Shulk's monados help him force Ike into these playstyles that are degrading to him. Personally from my experience using Shulk, his only good special is the monado arts since backslash is easy to punish, his counter can actually miss consistently on proper spacing and air slash isn't something you want to use often due to the falling speed and momentum Shulk gets that makes it easy to punish after it is used. His smash attacks are also inferior since they cover less range, except for his down smash, which is superior to Ike's down smash. His forward smash albeit much faster, isn't something you use much cause it is punishable on whiff like Ike's and doesn't cover the top of him like Ike's forward smash. His up smash isn't that great either because Ike can cover the landing really well while keeping good vertical range and considering Ike's speed benefits him a lot for the area it covers where Shulk only gets good vertical range that doesn't have the hitbox reach the highest potential in range until a few seconds thereafter, which is also a thing with all his smashes except down smash. But yes, it is both a blessing and a curse from what it seems.

Side note: Any Ike tips? I could pass you some Marth set-ups for killing early and killing later where he gets his killing issues.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The enter button.

Please, use it.

 

[Planet God Venus]

1. Against Villager, you'll generally have more success staying on the ground. Block the Lloid Rockets he sends at you, but be ready to evade his approaches afterward - generally a dash attack, grab, or Nair/Dair. Jumping can work if you're not predictable with your movement, but a tall target like Ike really hates the slingshot. Villager struggles more when his opponent is able to stay on his tail after closing the gap, so make the most of it any time you get in on him.

2. Counters are some of the deadliest edgeguards against Aether. The only real way to get around it is to simply not get in a position where you need to use Aether. Against Marth, most of his attacks will send you high, so you can get back by saving your double jump or using Quick Draw. Saving the double jump is especially key, because if you squander it, you could easily get gimped at low percent by an Fair chain. If you're really forced to use Aether, then your only hope is to keep an eye on where he's waiting for you and try to avoid hitting him with Ragnell. Alternatively, use Aether early - if he counters Ragnell as you throw it, he'll swing too soon to hit you. However, he could still get you when you come back down, so try to get on the stage rather than the ledge.

3. That's generally the way to play Ike, but make sure you're using jabs liberally, as well. Since Ike doesn't have many long-lasting hitboxes, it's his main way of getting in on someone who's good at spot-dodging. Jab1 is quick and has decent range, and you can have some success canceling the jab and going for a dash grab or Dtilt. Jab2 has high range and can stop some opponents' approaches. Just make sure you can stop yourself from finishing the combo if you get blocked.

4. If an opponent rolls away from you, all you can really do is chase after them. Don't use the dash attack unless you get a good read. If they roll through you, you can do turn around jab to cover all of their remaining dodge frames, or use Ftilt if you read their roll. Depending on your spacing, retreating Fair is decent at reading rolls without too much endlag, especially when edgeguarding. If you're a little too early to catch them but still positioned correctly, you can follow up with a jab.

I've found nair to be my greatest tool vs Villager

also I have reason to believe our UTilt is better then our usmashhhh

 

[Arrei]

I'd agree for most situations - quicker to come out, less laggy, only a little less powerful on the sweetspot, reliably sends opponents straight up for a kill rather than sometimes at an angle. Of course, it doesn't reach as far... Usmash has got obscene reach for landing traps but since it's so slow anyone with a sex kick just lands on Ike's head to eff it up.

But at least we can get good use out of running Usmash if an opponent's conditioned to spotdodge every time we dash at them. When I score a kill with Usmash, it's either that, baiting an airdodge by charging for a brief moment, or evading an attack with Ike's crouching hitbox.

I think Dsmash is our worst smash, though. The front hit is shorter than Ftilt and slower than Utilt but so much more punishable on account of the back hit, and the back hit takes as long as an Fsmash to come out so it's awful at punishing rolls. Might even be our worst move as a whole, now that I think about it. I've scored a handful of kills with it but each kill could have achieved the same result had I used Ftilt or Utilt instead. I guess... it's... guaranteed to be fresh if you use it...?

 

[GhostUrsa]

2. Counters are some of the deadliest edgeguards against Aether. The only real way to get around it is to simply not get in a position where you need to use Aether. Against Marth, most of his attacks will send you high, so you can get back by saving your double jump or using Quick Draw. Saving the double jump is especially key, because if you squander it, you could easily get gimped at low percent by an Fair chain. If you're really forced to use Aether, then your only hope is to keep an eye on where he's waiting for you and try to avoid hitting him with Ragnell. Alternatively, use Aether early - if he counters Ragnell as you throw it, he'll swing too soon to hit you. However, he could still get you when you come back down, so try to get on the stage rather than the ledge.
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4. If an opponent rolls away from you, all you can really do is chase after them. Don't use the dash attack unless you get a good read. If they roll through you, you can do turn around jab to cover all of their remaining dodge frames, or use Ftilt if you read their roll. Depending on your spacing, retreating Fair is decent at reading rolls without too much endlag, especially when edgeguarding. If you're a little too early to catch them but still positioned correctly, you can follow up with a jab.

I'd like to add that Counter and good spikes are 2 hurdles that Ike has that are unique to our character. Most players that I've talked to that play characters without a good option of one of those 2 types hate Aether because of how hard it is to gimp. To add more advice when recovering against Counter characters, learning and getting into muscle memory the exact range of Ragnell's range during Aether will make it easier to get the edge's sweetspot without going over and being Counter material. You'll have to go to Ike's maximum deepness for the recovery to be able to pull it off on stages where we can't Aether through the floor. If Ragnell can be thrown through the floor of the level, then I find it easier to get around Counters. Reason why is due to your opponent's positioning. If they are right at the edge expecting to counter you against Aether and you throw the sword through the stage it will be behind them and fire their Counter backwards, allowing for you to snap properly. If they are farther back, then their Counter's range needs to be exceptional in order to prevent the snap. (Shulk's counter or another Ike are the only two with the range that doesn't put them in an uncomfortable position, like Lucario or Greninja do) Avoiding using Aether is still a good strategy, but you don't want to get completely predictable with your recoveries or you'll be gimped.

For the rolls, understanding their roll distance in comparison to your dash speed will help. All the advice on "taking an extra step before grabbing/dash attacking" and "retreating n-airs" will do you no good if you misjudge how much ground you are covering compared to your opponent. The next time you start a match the first time you go to punish a roll, chase but don't follow-through. (Equivilant of an empty short hop for your chase option) Pay attention to the range distance they are when their roll is ending compared to your chase option and see what would have worked. (A Dash attack, a grab, a rising f-air, a pivot f-tilt, etc.) You'll get a better understanding of how you opponent's defensive game matches up to your analytical mind, and next time will know what option to choose. (Even if the option is to let them return to neutral. Sometimes you chasing after the roll is their plan, and watching what they'll do next foils it.)

 

[Arrei]

2. Counters are some of the deadliest edgeguards against Aether. The only real way to get around it is to simply not get in a position where you need to use Aether. Against Marth, most of his attacks will send you high, so you can get back by saving your double jump or using Quick Draw. Saving the double jump is especially key, because if you squander it, you could easily get gimped at low percent by an Fair chain. If you're really forced to use Aether, then your only hope is to keep an eye on where he's waiting for you and try to avoid hitting him with Ragnell. Alternatively, use Aether early - if he counters Ragnell as you throw it, he'll swing too soon to hit you. However, he could still get you when you come back down, so try to get on the stage rather than the ledge.

By the way, I thought I'd mention we do have one more option for avoiding getting countered when recovering depending on our opponent's positioning, as it's one we likely don't frequently think to do - aiming Aether backwards. Like all the other options, it's risky since being forced to use Aether against a counter is a position we simply don't want to be in, but throwing Ragnell backwards then directing Ike onto the stage can avoid touching the opponent much more easily. I only just realized this was an option a few days ago when I found myself facing a Peach waiting to block my sword with Toad's face at the edge, and decided to try a backwards recovery since I was dead if it failed anyway - and it worked! I actually can't remember if I managed to nick Peach with the end of the attack to safely land, but I wasn't dead, and that's all I was aiming for.

 

[Solutionme]

By the way, I thought I'd mention we do have one more option for avoiding getting countered when recovering depending on our opponent's positioning, as it's one we likely don't frequently think to do - aiming Aether backwards. Like all the other options, it's risky since being forced to use Aether against a counter is a position we simply don't want to be in, but throwing Ragnell backwards then directing Ike onto the stage can avoid touching the opponent much more easily. I only just realized this was an option a few days ago when I found myself facing a Peach waiting to block my sword with Toad's face at the edge, and decided to try a backwards recovery since I was dead if it failed anyway - and it worked! I actually can't remember if I managed to nick Peach with the end of the attack to safely land, but I wasn't dead, and that's all I was aiming for.

Personally, while counter is a monster of an edgeguard tool against aether, I think aether has become one of the best recoveries since you can't be edge hogged anymore and trumping it is not easy at all due to the active hitbox. It can also punish a regrab on the ledge with a spike and punishes air dodging off the stage. It is like you say though, time it differently and try to use it backwards, or you can just sweetspot it a lot lower.

 

[Arrei]

In terms of raw height gained and having a transcendent hitbox, it's not too shabby, but I can't call it anywhere near one of the best recoveries - it's ridiculously easy to get knocked out of it by any lingering aerial since the super armor doesn't protect you when it counts, windboxes are the spawn of Satan, and getting spiked while you spin is an one way ticket to Salt Town.

Ike's recoveries are actually very good in terms of how far they can take him, it's just they're so limited when it comes to the paths he can take and so easily gimpable by the characters Ike tends to struggle against.

 

[Solutionme]

In terms of raw height gained and having a transcendent hitbox, it's not too shabby, but I can't call it anywhere near one of the best recoveries - it's ridiculously easy to get knocked out of it by any lingering aerial since the super armor doesn't protect you when it counts, windboxes are the spawn of Satan, and getting spiked while you spin is an one way ticket to Salt Town.

Ike's recoveries are actually very good in how far they can take him, it's just they're so limited when it comes to the paths he can take.

I've had some pretty nasty ledge games using aether tbh, it is more of an aggressive ledge move than anything else. Aether to punish a regrab or aethter onto a ledge after hitting and opponent only to aether them on the stage or follow up with a kill move. But yes on the defensive term of trying to get back on, it is not really that great. I recommend using it more aggressively if you don't near the ledge anyways, it covers a lot of options, even more than the drive variant, just not as damage oriented. The windboxes i one hundred percent agree on though. Spikes kind of depend on the positioning, you can't really C. Falcon up tilt an Ike who is recovering. Not as bad as bowser's recovery though, that thing is awful. I feel like there needs to be more creativity with it anyways.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Anyone else appreciate the new hitbox behind Ike on nair. You can pull off so many combos with it, and suprise people lol. I also wanted to ask, what is the best way to use ftilt, i find it very hard to kill with and the range seems shorter than brawl ftilt.

The #1 part about it is that you can punish rolls easily this way by doing a retreat.

 

[the king of murder]

Personally, while counter is a monster of an edgeguard tool against aether, I think aether has become one of the best recoveries since you can't be edge hogged anymore and trumping it is not easy at all due to the active hitbox. It can also punish a regrab on the ledge with a spike and punishes air dodging off the stage. It is like you say though, time it differently and try to use it backwards, or you can just sweetspot it a lot lower.

Yeah Aether is difficult to interrupt because the opponent is forced to shield or get out most of the time. If not they will either eat some damage and are forced to let Ike get back or worst case scenario for them they will get Aether spiked. However if your opponent has a very good Dair spike there is a chance that they can hit you with it if your body hits above the stage. So we will have to choose carefully where and at what distance we can recover.

Also I find D-throw->Bair more useful than Fair at lower percent against opponents who either don't have any fast aerials or are big targets like Bowser. It puts us in a good position to either get another grab, turnaround U-tilt, or simply Jab. That's like 30-40% already. With Fair, they actually have a way to escape your juggle though it still puts them in a bad position. That's from my experience anyway. Correct me if I am wrong

 

[GhostUrsa]

Also I find D-throw->Bair more useful than Fair at lower percent against opponents who either don't have any fast aerials or are big targets like Bowser. It puts us in a good position to either get another grab, turnaround U-tilt, or simply Jab. That's like 30-40% already. With Fair, they actually have a way to escape your juggle though it still puts them in a bad position. That's from my experience anyway. Correct me if I am wrong

D-throw to B-air is fun to use, but it is one of the slowest of all his throw combos to pull off (it may be tied for use with u-air after a throw) as well as one of the easier to move out of the way from. I use it quite a bit, and have noticed I have a harder time connecting with it against good players due to good DI and/or a good second jump. I still try to use it as a MU for people trying to Air-dodge, but I don't recommend relying on it. Short-hop f-air covers people trying to DI away from the follow-up, while n-air will cover those who try to DI towards the follow-up.

Now if you happen to be playing a friendly or tournament with items, then combining this combo with the screw attack item is fantastic! And I mean it. Got a opponent from 0-60% on just one d-throw to b-air with it. You feel like you just cheated the system, it is that satisfying.

 

[the king of murder]

D-throw to B-air is fun to use, but it is one of the slowest of all his throw combos to pull off (it may be tied for use with u-air after a throw) as well as one of the easier to move out of the way from. I use it quite a bit, and have noticed I have a harder time connecting with it against good players due to good DI and/or a good second jump. I still try to use it as a MU for people trying to Air-dodge, but I don't recommend relying on it. Short-hop f-air covers people trying to DI away from the follow-up, while n-air will cover those who try to DI towards the follow-up.

Now if you happen to be playing a friendly or tournament with items, then combining this combo with the screw attack item is fantastic! And I mean it. Got a opponent from 0-60% on just one d-throw to b-air with it. You feel like you just cheated the system, it is that satisfying.

Yeah I noticed that I have trouble landing it against opponents who DI up or away as well as medium-short kinda targets. However against the big ones it can lead to huge juggling. I always managed to connect D-trow turnaround Bair against heavies and missed only a few times against medium to large targets like Yoshi.

Maybe it really is just their DI being bad but I always get ridiculous percent against biggies.

Also Screw Attack sounds like fun. Will probably try to screw around a little with items.

 

[san.]

Turnaround is only 1 frame, so dthrow to bair shouldn't be slower as long as your execution is fine or if the opponent is launched too high (~35%+ with rage).

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Yeah Aether is difficult to interrupt because the opponent is forced to shield or get out most of the time. If not they will either eat some damage and are forced to let Ike get back or worst case scenario for them they will get Aether spiked. However if your opponent has a very good Dair spike there is a chance that they can hit you with it if your body hits above the stage. So we will have to choose carefully where and at what distance we can recover.

Also I find D-throw->Bair more useful than Fair at lower percent against opponents who either don't have any fast aerials or are big targets like Bowser. It puts us in a good position to either get another grab, turnaround U-tilt, or simply Jab. That's like 30-40% already. With Fair, they actually have a way to escape your juggle though it still puts them in a bad position. That's from my experience anyway. Correct me if I am wrong

Aether is not that good. Fight players who have MU experience on Ike. They will knock you out of Aether's high point and right into an early death. Even if you skew the timing, it's punishable. That's why I prefer Aether Wave.

 

[Solutionme]

Aether is not that good. Fight players who have MU experience on Ike. They will knock you out of Aether's high point and right into an early death. Even if you skew the timing, it's punishable. That's why I prefer Aether Wave.

Eh, it is the best one for just recovering defensively, I find that the normal aether has very strong aggressive ledge uses.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Just tried playing brawl today after playing smash 4 for a couple of months. For a while i used to think that brawl Ike was much better because of the reach and kill power and stuff along those lines, but he felt so much slower. The no combos kinda killed me; in reality, the kill percents were not very different. He feels so much better in this game.....except the sound effect..those were great.

 

[Arrei]

I still really miss Quick Draw jabs, though.

But what I don't miss is killing yourself because you got pushed off the edge and did an Nair.

 

[Mario766]

I wonder just how much better Ike would be with Brawl jab.