Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[san.]

A few days ago, I mentioned how uthrow->nair is very reliable even at higher percents. With good positioning, fair also reaches just as high, but you need to precisely position yourself slightly behind the opponent. The timing is a bit awkward since it's the exact same as using nair, but it feels like fair would miss when you input it. I recommend mastering high percent uthrow->nair before getting the positioning down for high percent uthrow->fair. At mid % and below, fair is still easy to get.

After the Uthrow, I need to press X/Y for a full hop, then L+C-stick fair while positioning myself with the control stick slightly behind the opponent at the same time. L is set to jump.

Edit: Maybe fair has ever so slightly less vertical reach, but it still works well. I still recommend using nair 90+% of the time when at high rage or when the opponent is at high % since it's so much easier and consistent.

 

[Baggy]

A tiny bit off topic, but where can I find the frame data on ledge grabs/options. Are they universal, or are certain characters ledge get-ups different?

 

[san.]

A tiny bit off topic, but where can I find the frame data on ledge grabs/options. Are they universal, or are certain characters ledge get-ups different?

I don't think we have that yet. From my experience, they all seem very similar this time around.

 

[Arrei]

So what are your favorite ways to go for the kill? Seems like Ike has to go for unsafe options more and more as his opponent's percentage rises since his combos will stop working. Punishing with FF Bair is brutal, and I seem to catch a lot more people off guard than I should be with a running Usmash when they're expecting a dash grab, haha. It's far from a safe move but I just love doing it.

 

[san.]

So what are your favorite ways to go for the kill? Seems like Ike has to go for unsafe options more and more as his opponent's percentage rises since his combos will stop working. Punishing with FF Bair is brutal, and I seem to catch a lot more people off guard than I should be with a running Usmash when they're expecting a dash grab, haha. It's far from a safe move but I just love doing it.

Fair, bair, utilt. People forget the fair can kill around 110 easily, even easier offstage. I only suggest trying usmash around 70-100 or if the opponent is really predictable. Only fishing with bair was my most recent folly. Uair if there's rage.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Rosalina on For Glory absolutely destroyed me earlier. Was nearly impossible to kill because I couldn't get the landing blow. I snap the ledge, roll on, and get met with a Dair spike into FSmash combo. I couldn't tech it because of the lag, but it was ridiculous how evasive she was. I thought Ike had the matchup advantage on Rosalina because you could Quick Draw her Luma to death in one blow. However, she's wiry, hard to hit because of her lateral movement in the air, her dash attack punishes you for short-hopping, and it's hard to get in while she's doing aerials.

Also, another thing. How do you deal with most of the roster punishing your short-hops with dash attacks. You jump, but they're already on you with a dash attack. Ike's approach and defense often uses jumping, including shorthop Fairs, Nairs, and whatnot. So I'm guessing it's not random, but actually read, when they dash attack you for jumping too much. How do you get around this?

 

[Robin1613]

back air. match up solved.



edit: depending on the matchup you may want to mix up a short hop and full hop. for the most part dash attacks are laggy when whiffed so if you can properly predict them you can even short hop airdodge and punish accordingly.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Rosalina is very evasive and her dash attack comes suddenly and without warning. Plus she can duck under Bair with that move or use one of her other aerials to hit you at an angle or USmash you from out of nowhere.

 

[Arrei]

The key thing is that you don't want to just be hopping around throwing out attacks for no reason against a character that can be on you in a split second. Once you get into closer range against an opponent, you need to pull out all kinds of jumps - retreating aerials with a short hop as a defensive move, approaching aerials when you see an opening, full hops potentially followed by an FF aerial to bait out punishable actions, and even the double jump sometimes for evasive maneuvers.

For thwarting Rosalina's dash attack, I find the most helpful thing is full hop with an FF aerial, usually Nair, but that kind of option makes it absolutely crucial that you don't whiff the hit, or you'll get dash attacked, and that you don't land too close to her or you'll get grabbed.

As always, you'll need to mix this up with empty jumps and even just straight charges to vary your approach between the air and the ground.

 

[san.]

Rosalina is very evasive and her dash attack comes suddenly and without warning. Plus she can duck under Bair with that move or use one of her other aerials to hit you at an angle or USmash you from out of nowhere.

You need to start bair before characters dash to even hit them on wifi, while the problem is nonexistent offline.

 

[xxGrymxx]

just literally read this whol thing hopefully i can improve myself after absorbing some useful info thanks so much for this

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Anyone notice this "tier list" from r/smashbros?

http://i.imgur.com/Tl7i7Iy.jpg

....XD

 

[LonkQ]

Everyone's underrating Ike. He's certainly not worse than Lucina.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Honestly, I wouldn't be too worried about Ike's tier placement, if that is what you're looking at. We know Ike has the attributes that make a solid character in a competitive environment. He definitely has the results; it just that he currently lacks representation and high placings in tourneys on a national scale, like Apex. Also, I think he is further held back by the stigma pre-1.0.4. that he is supposedly unviable and bottom tier material. It wouldn't surprise me if he is initially placed low on the official tier list due to what was previously mentioned.

Remember how Luigi was often ranked low in many players' tier lists during early speculation? Much like how Luigi did at Apex as well as what led up to it, Ike needs to prove to a wide audience he is a competitive threat; exploring his options further, using his tools to the fullest, and being able to keep up with the perceived top tiers. Only then would public perception of him change for the better. To me, this is looking like a repeat of what SSBB Ike went through.

As for Lucina, although I don't how she fares relative to the rest of the cast, the last time I checked from the following thread I made at GameFAQs, it is almost unanimously agreed Lucina is expected to rank the lowest of the four FE characters, which also seems to be the general consensus here on Smashboards.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/71026312

^-^

 

[san.]

With the lack of vertical vectoring, I think the future of Ike's meta lies with throw combos. Dtilt and nair combos are already pretty common and I also don't see jab->dtilt used enough, but dthrow at 10-20% gives us a little time to delay our next attack to allow for better followups, while uthrow lets us barely combo with good timing at higher percents (and extremely difficult online, nonetheless!).

I'm still trying to get down dthrow->delayed nair onto a platform->jab, grab, dtilt, or bair. Not as easy as other characters, but there's something there that can be used. We even have 0-20% dthrow->footstool->nair/dair gimmicks, but it's difficult to follow DI with a footstool.

 

[AdventCross]

Real novice question, but has the timing for jab cancelling changed? I just finally got a hand on the adapter, yet I can't get it down in the same way I did in brawl.

 

[san.]

Nah, buffering is just a lot more difficult since you can't buffer a crouch. Less damage/altered properties on jab also killed the hitstun needed for jab cancels to work.

That being said, jab->dtilt works situationally, and jab on an aerial opponent leads into utilt for lightweights, dtilt, or grab (if they lack a 3-4 frame aerial option).

 

[Planet God Venus]

Mixing up your recovery in doubles and doing fully charged quick draw on stage and cancelling your momentum to get a fsmash or something is a really good option...

Just thought I'd throw that out there

 

[JohnnySparkxs]

Ok, so I'm new to the this thread I already saw some pretty good sugestions, definitely going to try them out, but yeah, in online, my favorite way of approach is with short hops into nair or bair. Also, at low percentages, I like to grab and do a down throw and follow up with Aether, this usually deals around 30% damage, but can only be performed at lower percentages. Also, I find Ike Up-smash and Down-Smash great tools to deal with rollers. Not sure if anyone told this already because I didn't read the whole thread.

 

[Planet God Venus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VV_3B3YsCQ&feature=youtu.be
Sheik vs Ike Aether exploitation, just request a character and I'll show you the maximum punish

 

[Banjobeast158]

that video just made me cringe

 

[san.]

That was possible in Brawl, too. Without aether dragging, the best option I can think of is to aether farther from the stage edge.

 

[Planet God Venus]

That was possible in Brawl, too. Without aether dragging, the best option I can think of is to aether farther from the stage edge.

Sure was but I never wanted to post anything about it. But it's easier than ever now!!!!

 

[Arrei]

Sheik does have a lot of options to mess with Aether, especially with Vanish, but from my experience her attempts to kill you are going to send you rather high up, making Quick Draw the preferable choice against her while varying the altitude at which you release it.

That said, it looks like the edge camping shenanigans on display there could be thwarted by aiming Aether so the spin occurs at the edge to cause shield pressure? We're all painfully aware of how vulnerable Ike is during his jump at this point, I think.

Either way, this is why I really wish Aether could snap when sweet-spotted.

 

[san.]

Sure was but I never wanted to post anything about it. But it's easier than ever now!!!!

Yeah. Out of shield like nair seems like a legitimate threat, but I think that trying to grab is a little risky unless the Ike momentarily forgets. I think Ike *might be able to return from a grab release barely, too, but I'm not exactly sure about that.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Yeah. Out of shield like nair seems like a legitimate threat, but I think that trying to grab is a little risky unless the Ike momentarily forgets. I think Ike *might be able to return from a grab release barely, too, but I'm not exactly sure about that.

Ike can Quickdraw from the grab release which is why Sheik should opt to do more. Also fun dubs earlier I actually had to try ;s, I also stole some of your things with U Throw... What percents do the uthrow strings work again?

 

[san.]

Ike can Quickdraw from the grab release which is why Sheik should opt to do more. Also fun dubs earlier I actually had to try ;s, I also stole some of your things with U Throw... What percents do the uthrow strings work again?

Dubs was interesting. I was so confused sometimes since I thought you went afk at times. I'm not too great at dubs, but I hope to improve.

Uthrow->nair is the safe option if they go straight up. If they DI forward, uthrow->fair. Have to time the double jump early. At very low rage (0-20%), Ike can uthrow->uair fastfallers around 70-90%. It's not too difficult offline since you can follow the DI and react accordingly. Heavy+fastfallers like Captain Falcon you can uthrow->uair for free.

 

[Planet God Venus]

Dubs was interesting. I was so confused sometimes since I thought you went afk at times. I'm not too great at dubs, but I hope to improve.

Uthrow->nair is the safe option if they go straight up. If they DI forward, uthrow->fair. Have to time the double jump early. At very low rage (0-20%), Ike can uthrow->uair fastfallers around 70-90%. It's not too difficult offline since you can follow the DI and react accordingly. Heavy+fastfallers like Captain Falcon you can uthrow->uair for free.

So is it a better option than dthrow?

 

[san.]

So is it a better option than dthrow?

Dthrow is better until you reach the 30%+ range imo. If your percent is high and the opponent is like at 30%, it's dubious for whether a full hop + fair would reach or if you would need to double jump. It really just depends on what you're comfortable with, since you'll want to get the bair from the dthrow or whatever maximizes your damage wracking.

 

[-RedX-]

Pretty sure you can space Aether properly since grab ranges are pretty bad for almost all characters. Nair OoS looks troublesome but something like that forces the Ike player to make smart uses of his mid-air jump and mixup with Quickdraw recoveries.

EDIT: Wtf, just aim Aether so that Ike will spin nearly parallel to the ledge. Don't go above it and none of that should work.

 

[C4-]

can anyone explain how to wave bounce ikes quick draw ? i understand how it works with neutral specials but i cant seem to do it with side specials. with neutral specials the input with be a turnaround special that is canceled out by a B reversal. For some reason i cant grasp that with a side special. Anyone have any experience messing around with it ? the only person ive ever really seen do it often was i believe either blubo or berserker in brawl but im always for learning small techiniques so im really trying to figure it out.

 

[Zatchiel]

can anyone explain how to wave bounce ikes quick draw ? i understand how it works with neutral specials but i cant seem to do it with side specials. with neutral specials the input with be a turnaround special that is canceled out by a B reversal. For some reason i cant grasp that with a side special. Anyone have any experience messing around with it ? the only person ive ever really seen do it often was i believe either blubo or berserker in brawl but im always for learning small techiniques so im really trying to figure it out.

Input Quickdraw in the direction opposite of the direction you want to go, then immediately hit the control stick in the direction that you want it to go. If you charge it Ike will continue drifting in the direction he bounced in until you release or hit the ground.

 

[LonkQ]

Anyone have any tips for Falcon? I swear this matchup is impossible. If I do anything I get dash grabbed for it. If I even Nair somewhat close to him I will get dash grabbed for it.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Anyone have any tips for Falcon? I swear this matchup is impossible. If I do anything I get dash grabbed for it. If I even Nair somewhat close to him I will get dash grabbed for it.

Falcon absolutely hates Ike. You're playing someone who's just reading you and punishing accordingly. Take away your landing lag and he's a sitting duck. If you Fair and Bair with proper auto-canceling, he will have a hard time punishing you. Take this advice.

1) Captain Falcon players are readily aware that FSmash shifts their hitbox backwards. Don't go for random Fairs because they're looking for it so you can whiff and get hit.

2) I've played a Falcon at a tournament. They're good at quick-gimping. Dash-grab you at the ledge, then Bair you for a stage spike. Be wary of that.

3) They're all about punishment. They'll back-roll all day until they see you flub up, then dash attack/dash grab you into a punishing combo.

4) Bair can kill. Be wary of this as well, especially once you hit 110% or are close to the ledge.

5) Much like characters like Sonic and Rosalina, Falcon has fast dash speed and can be on you in an instant. He will use this to dash-punish any shorthop Nair or other move that leaves you vulnerable at any time he chooses, regardless of where he is on the stage.

Now for weaknesses.

1) You completely outrange him. They hate your Bair very much, especially from auto-canceling.

2) Use his grab game against him. Instead of being predictable, throw more necessary grabs out. Since Captain Falcon is a heavyweight with a fairly large frame, he's a glutton for punishment. DThrow Fair/Nair, UThrow Fair/Nair/Uair are your bread and butter. Don't want butter with your toast? Use the jam and DTilt him instead.

3) Captain Falcon players will hate you personally for hitting UThrow into Uair around 90% or so.

4) Captain Falcon isn't about lateral movement in the air. He's not Yoshi. Don't expect him to gain on you in the air, leaving you more leeway to whack him with Fair/Bair at full range.

Their only ranged attacks are Ftilt and Dtilt. Falcon Kick hits from afar, while Side B is meant to punish (and sometimes kill), but is extremely punishable. His dash attack has a large hitbox, but can also be punished with accordingly. You're focusing on landing as many combos as you can on him. You have an aerial advantage against him, so use it!

Oh, and he is perhaps the easiest character in the game to blaze with Eruption. Use your ears on this one and wait for the "WSSSSSH" noise of his Up B before you let it rip. Or you can just wait till he's at the lowest point of recovery before you annihilate him.

 

[Ussi]

http://smashboards.com/threads/list-of-moves-that-are-safe-on-shield.390257/

Aight so for Ike:
Ftilt (spaced), fsmash (wut), usmash (back hitbox), dsmash (back hitbox), bair (retreating), and dair (retreating)

How legit is this? This could make fsmash usable if safe on shield. What yall experiences with shield pressure?

 

[Mario766]

F-Smash isn't safe on shield, even with full push. F-tilt spaced is safe on shield, as is spaced F-air (It was safe before patch, now it's auto cancelled.) Dair? Not likely. Bair is safe.

This is also only showing against Mega Man, so this isn't very good for shield pressure.

 

[Ussi]

I really felt iffy about fsmash cause it sounded too good to be true when I know I would get punished from back hit usmash.

Also, does this mean spaced nair is garbage now?

 

[Mario766]

You have to remember this is Mega Man who has the fastest grab hitbox in the game. Spaced Nair isn't garbage, it should be safe unless it gets power shielded.

 

[san.]

Dash shield makes the list shorter.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Anyone else appreciate the new hitbox behind Ike on nair. You can pull off so many combos with it, and suprise people lol. I also wanted to ask, what is the best way to use ftilt, i find it very hard to kill with and the range seems shorter than brawl ftilt.