Path of Radiance: Ike Guide and Strategy Discussion

[san.]

My timing with stuff like this is garbage, so I won't be using it much. I know someone with godly timing would make great strides with it. Unfortunately, other attacks from the stage such as dtilt won't hit. UpB *might hit, especially upB3, but I need to test it.

 

[-RedX-]

http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

I skimmed through Ike's data and was mostly curious about his specials but it's a bit hard to find the bulk of the info without proper labels. Heh.

What I got so far:
Ftilt does 1 extra point of shield damage, making it do around 15 points when fresh. yay? Why couldn't it add like 5? Lol

Fair and Nair have their hitbox start out at the same time.

And just as I thought, 35% Eruption will break shields, doing around 65 points of shield damage. I guess this could happen if you release on an opponent doing a ledge climb.

 

[san.]

Yep. The ftilt thing was also in Brawl. What 1 shield damage does really, idk exactly lol.

 

[LionMagnus]

The 1 frame thing is confirmed I see xD, was wondering if that's a real thing. I love doing Eruption timing when opponent are below the stage. Of course it also depends on which recovery they are using, some of them are impossible to catch or maybe just the timing difference.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

So Nair is actually really great when it comes to stage spiking...I figured it out on accident, my control stick wasn't far enough back to Bair, so I ended up using Nair. It was the end of the swing that hit Falco up into the bottom of FD causing him to plummet down. I've been messing around with it, it's a little tricky to pull off, but when you get it, it works wonders.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I've done it before, but it's also very risky. Miss the timing and you could be repeating Brawl and SDing. Not only that, but if you read my topic about gimping, you'll find hungry players are always trying to kill you early. So many times people choose to take the fight offstage almost immediately to get an early kill on Ike.

That said, I'm seriously looking for edgeguarding options. I'm tired of standing at the edge paranoid that someone is going to gimp me off-stage if I follow them down there to take them out. The only thing I really do is walk-off Fair. They go lower than my recovery can handle, though, so I usually just avoid doing it.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Eruption is ****ing amazing! Today I was going up against some Kirby player who just loved to spam his down special attack. For the most part, I was punishing him for it, but at one point I ended up charging eruption, not entirely sure how. Well he tried to punish me for it by dropping on top of me. I released Eruption, and WHILE HE WAS IN THE STONE FORM he was instantly KOed. At first I thought he had transformed out of the rock, and that's what caused him to suffer a KO, but later I was up against another player using the same tactic, and it worked again! Now I don't know if this is new information or not, but this is the first I've heard of it.

I also had this awesome moment where I was falling from the sky, gonna try and Quick Draw away, guess my input messed up and I was stuck charging up Eruption. I was playing against a Pit player and he was charging a Usmash (which has incredible range). Not entirely sure how, but I released Eruption as he released his Usmash and Ike's attack took priority.

I'll upload a few videos of the above instances and post them on here later. Vidya:

Spoiler

 

[FuRy Smash]

Eruption is ****ing amazing! Today I was going up against some Kirby player who just loved to spam his down special attack. For the most part, I was punishing him for it, but at one point I ended up charging eruption, not entirely sure how. Well he tried to punish me for it by dropping on top of me. I released Eruption, and WHILE HE WAS IN THE STONE FORM he was instantly KOed. At first I thought he had transformed out of the rock, and that's what caused him to suffer a KO, but later I was up against another player using the same tactic, and it worked again! Now I don't know if this is new information or not, but this is the first I've heard of it.

I also had this awesome moment where I was falling from the sky, gonna try and Quick Draw away, guess my input messed up and I was stuck charging up Eruption. I was playing against a Pit player and he was charging a Usmash (which has incredible range). Not entirely sure how, but I released Eruption as he released his Usmash and Ike's attack took priority.

I'll upload a few videos of the above instances and post them on here later.

videos of these would be good for study, looking forward to it.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

videos of these would be good for study, looking forward to it.

Added it to my post literally as you posted this xD
Here's some gifs of the instances in the video. Currently trying to find a better way to record stuff from my 3DS...Taking all suggestions...[collapse=Gifs of Eruption]

[/collapse]​

 

[LionMagnus]

So Nair is actually really great when it comes to stage spiking...I figured it out on accident, my control stick wasn't far enough back to Bair, so I ended up using Nair. It was the end of the swing that hit Falco up into the bottom of FD causing him to plummet down. I've been messing around with it, it's a little tricky to pull off, but when you get it, it works wonders.

But the recovery from Nair is too risky I think? It is a nice way to mix things up tho. Sometimes I accidentally used Nair falling off stage gets me kill a lot of times.

 

[Zx2963]

Eruption is ****ing amazing! Today I was going up against some Kirby player who just loved to spam his down special attack. For the most part, I was punishing him for it, but at one point I ended up charging eruption, not entirely sure how. Well he tried to punish me for it by dropping on top of me. I released Eruption, and WHILE HE WAS IN THE STONE FORM he was instantly KOed. At first I thought he had transformed out of the rock, and that's what caused him to suffer a KO, but later I was up against another player using the same tactic, and it worked again! Now I don't know if this is new information or not, but this is the first I've heard of it.

I also had this awesome moment where I was falling from the sky, gonna try and Quick Draw away, guess my input messed up and I was stuck charging up Eruption. I was playing against a Pit player and he was charging a Usmash (which has incredible range). Not entirely sure how, but I released Eruption as he released his Usmash and Ike's attack took priority.

I'll upload a few videos of the above instances and post them on here later. Vidya:

Spoiler

Ike's Neutral B has armor, that's why you take priority depending on the attack, Kirby has heavy armor out of his Down b, and I'm pretty sure it decays over time. Since the Down B animation had lasted a couple seconds I assume that it degraded enough that Ike's neutral b could knock through it

 

[PyroTakun]

How do you guys feel about RAR with Ike?

 

[Zatchiel]

How do you guys feel about RAR with Ike?

It's awesome. I'm not sure if it's safer to retreat or fastfall after doing it, but I get punished less often if I fastfall, and less considerably if I retreat. Probably just circumstantial. I've gotten lots of kills where I send an opponent away with f-tilt/f-air/b-air and followed up with a jump -> quickdraw (to land) -> b-air them while they are either still tumbling or attempting to punish my quickdraw with an aerial of their own. I sometimes have to double jump into b-air to get to them, especially if they like to jump out of tumble. But overall I still consider b-air to be one of Ike's best attacks so it's no surprise that I love his RAR.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Ike's Neutral B has armor, that's why you take priority depending on the attack, Kirby has heavy armor out of his Down b, and I'm pretty sure it decays over time. Since the Down B animation had lasted a couple seconds I assume that it degraded enough that Ike's neutral b could knock through it

Yeah that's what I was thinking while I was looking back on the footage. During one of the Kirby bombs, I know that I released Eruption when the little star shines, so I know Ike had achieved the level of super armor (since it doesn't actually activate until like 3/4 of the way through the charge) protecting him from the hit. That being said, I think releasing Eruption when Kirby's stone is just above you will be able to break him out of his stone form since Eruption's hitbox is massive. In this scenario, it won't matter if you have super-armor or not because he hasn't hit you yet.

How do you guys feel about RAR with Ike?

I'm a huge fan! Ike's back air is one of the greatest moves in the game which is generally what I use the RAR for. Though I also do enjoy catching enemies with a retreating Fair or Nair. Always catches them off guard! Definitely something worth experimenting with.

But the recovery from Nair is too risky I think? It is a nice way to mix things up tho. Sometimes I accidentally used Nair falling off stage gets me kill a lot of times.

I think it's not too risky as long as you have a second jump left and recovering shouldn't be a problem if you activate the Nair early enough. The only problem I've ever run into (which seems to be a recurring problem for me...) is fast falling after using Fair. I'm not sure what causes it, but I have gimped myself a few times because of it. Can't say I've ever had that problem with Nair...

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Nair isn't as risky anymore. Just mash jump when the animation ends. It's Bair you should be worried about.

Unless you hit it on the edge, you won't recover. Nair's active frames last for only a short enough time for you to short hop and then recover. Just DON'T fastfall it.

 

[PyroTakun]

Don't know if it was discussed already, but what's Ike's OoS options in Sm4sh? Jab, D-tilt, and grab/ pivot grab are good. I haven't tested SH+B-Air, but it looks promising for when people dash/ land behind you. Are there any other moves that work well?

 

[san.]

Don't know if it was discussed already, but what's Ike's OoS options in Sm4sh? Jab, D-tilt, and grab/ pivot grab are good. I haven't tested SH+B-Air, but it looks promising for when people dash/ land behind you. Are there any other moves that work well?

Jab, dtilt, and grab for light punishes. They are generally safe on shield mid-max range. If you have the technical prowess, perfect pivot dtilt also helps if you're too close.

Short hop bair for punishing+gaining space and fair mostly for gaining space and countering an aerial followup.

Ftilt, utilt, dsmash, and dair for laggy punishes with good reward. Dair is just 1 frame slower than ftilt out of shield, depending on the length of Ike's jump, and has good reward if it spikes. At lower percents, it's easiest just to dtilt or grab since you can combo off of it.

Aether out of shield works against laggy attacks or when your back is at the edge, but it's pretty difficult to perform on the spur of the moment since you need to jump first.

Overall, you'd be using jab, dtilt, grab, and short hop bair 80+% of the time with a good amount of heavy punishers. A good amount of the heavier attacks are safe on non-dashed shields when fresh, so it might be worth the risk to throw out the utilt when the opponent is at kill % for instance.

 

[PyroTakun]

Jab, dtilt, and grab for light punishes. They are generally safe on shield mid-max range. If you have the technical prowess, perfect pivot dtilt also helps if you're too close.

Short hop bair for punishing+gaining space and fair mostly for gaining space and countering an aerial followup.

Ftilt, utilt, dsmash, and dair for laggy punishes with good reward. Dair is just 1 frame slower than ftilt out of shield, depending on the length of Ike's jump, and has good reward if it spikes. At lower percents, it's easiest just to dtilt or grab since you can combo off of it.

Aether out of shield works against laggy attacks or when your back is at the edge, but it's pretty difficult to perform on the spur of the moment since you need to jump first.

Overall, you'd be using jab, dtilt, grab, and short hop bair 80+% of the time with a good amount of heavy punishers. A good amount of the heavier attacks are safe on non-dashed shields when fresh, so it might be worth the risk to throw out the utilt when the opponent is at kill % for instance.

Perfect Pivot is insanely difficult for me to pull off, I only get it about 50% of the time. Thanks for the advice, I'll try to mix it up.

 

[Arrei]

What are good ways to approach Shulk? Like Ike, he excels at spacing, but the longer range on a lot of his attacks make it pretty hard to get in, doubly so when he's using Speed.

On that note, should I even try to edgeguard him? Hanging around the edge against an Air Slash tends to be pretty dangerous.

 

[gsninja]

What are good ways to approach Shulk? Like Ike, he excels at spacing, but the longer range on a lot of his attacks make it pretty hard to get in, doubly so when he's using Speed.

On that note, should I even try to edgeguard him? Hanging around the edge against an Air Slash tends to be pretty dangerous.

Empty jumps and baiting. What Shulk has over Ike in terms of speed, different spacing options, and versatility, Ike can counter with a superior grab and jab game. Shulk's grabs are pitiful compared to the myriad of options and follow-ups Ike has with UThrow and DThrow, and Ike's Jab 1 is super quick and one of his main tools to throw Shulk off. Lastly, Shulk has a lot of attacks with easily punishable ending lag (See: USmash, DAir, BAir), so make sure you take advantage of that.

tl;dr: Advance without being overly aggressive and punish Shulk when he tries to hit back with grabs and jabs.

As for edgeguarding, again, bait him into an air dodge or a FAir and kick his ass with your own FAir or BAir.

So far it's a relatively even match-up overall, but it really comes down to getting the upper hand with your ground game, which is where Ike shines against this guy.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I feel like I'm putting myself in a bad position everytime I jump in neutral (unless I'm fading away while jumping). Yet Ike doesn't have enough tools on the ground to stay grounded. (I find myself relying on dash into shield, with another dash, jab, f-tilt, or d-tilt out of shield following). How can I be better with Ike's aerials? I know that nair is the best one in terms of end lag. But I like dair hitbox for punishing rolls since it has a low hitbox that comes out fast. I know that bair is good, but having to turn around is actually quite annoying, and shorter characters are harder to hit because you have to wait for yourself to descend from the short hop a lot, which gives them the ability to exploit you in the air.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bair and Fair are better than Nair in terms of ending lag. As in they auto cancel and thus have none while Nair just has a very minimal amount.

Dair you really shouldn't be using on stage. If you hit them with the spike hitbox, they can tech and then get a free punish on you. Nair is a better roll punish option, hitbox lasts longer.

Fade away slightly, Fair, FF it if you want/in certain situations. Or get really good at RAR Bair.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I feel like I'm putting myself in a bad position everytime I jump in neutral (unless I'm fading away while jumping). Yet Ike doesn't have enough tools on the ground to stay grounded. (I find myself relying on dash into shield, with another dash, jab, f-tilt, or d-tilt out of shield following). How can I be better with Ike's aerials? I know that nair is the best one in terms of end lag. But I like dair hitbox for punishing rolls since it has a low hitbox that comes out fast. I know that bair is good, but having to turn around is actually quite annoying, and shorter characters are harder to hit because you have to wait for yourself to descend from the short hop a lot, which gives them the ability to exploit you in the air.

Make sure you aren't jumping into shields with Nair, that's a mistake I made a lot when I was learning Ike's air-game. Like Nedtendofreak said, Nair is much better for catching rolls than Dair because (a) the hitbox lasts longer, and (b) the endlag isn't quite as bad. Dair is a good tool, but you have to be very careful how you use it. Also, you should abuse the hell out of your Fair. Don't necessarily attack with it, but use it as a spacing tool. Once you figure out how to properly autocancel it, you'll start kicking ass when it comes to spacing. People who get caught will take a hard it, everyone else will stay away. As far as Bair goes, I would recommend getting better at RARing (reverse aerial rush) because Ike's Bair is basically Ftilt in the air, but it comes out way faster, has great range, and does slightly more knockback. Seriously, Bair is probably Ike's best move. Though don't bother using it on shorter characters when they're grounded, it's too easy to miss and get punished. There's a guy on YouTube (he's also on the forums, but I don't see him much anymore) named @ Moon Monkey his Ike is pretty sick. I would definitely recommend watching his For Glory with Ike videos, and just focus on the stuff he's doing.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I've been watching Ryo's Ike. Definitely think he has the best Ike in the world right now.

As for the nair advice, yes I agree that the hitbox is out longer. My aerials don't get shield grabbed often (I main Marth in Melee; by force of habit, I always try to space everything).

Regarding the auto-cancel fair: can you do that in a short hop, or do you have to full jump and fast fall it? Seems mad useful. RAR SH bair (or bair in general) sucks vs short characters, so that's why I've been considering dair when I need a hitbox lower. Now, I'm curious about the frame data on dair vs nair ... which hitbox comes out faster?

 

[Moon Monkey]

Make sure you aren't jumping into shields with Nair, that's a mistake I made a lot when I was learning Ike's air-game. Like Nedtendofreak said, Nair is much better for catching rolls than Dair because (a) the hitbox lasts longer, and (b) the endlag isn't quite as bad. Dair is a good tool, but you have to be very careful how you use it. Also, you should abuse the hell out of your Fair. Don't necessarily attack with it, but use it as a spacing tool. Once you figure out how to properly autocancel it, you'll start kicking *** when it comes to spacing. People who get caught will take a hard it, everyone else will stay away. As far as Bair goes, I would recommend getting better at RARing (reverse aerial rush) because Ike's Bair is basically Ftilt in the air, but it comes out way faster, has great range, and does slightly more knockback. Seriously, Bair is probably Ike's best move. Though don't bother using it on shorter characters when they're grounded, it's too easy to miss and get punished. There's a guy on YouTube (he's also on the forums, but I don't see him much anymore) named @ Moon Monkey his Ike is pretty sick. I would definitely recommend watching his For Glory with Ike videos, and just focus on the stuff he's doing.

I'm still around, I just spend more times in groups than in actual threads is all. Haha.

But yeah I love approaching with run up short hop nair or fair, or just a run up grab if the short hop aerials become too predictable. Ike's bair is usually what i use to finish off opponents. It comes out quick and has decent range.

 

[MiloniVanili]

does anyone know what the kill percents are for ikes throws?

 

[Falkore]

does anyone know what the kill percents are for ikes throws?

Ike's down throw kills at 175%

 

[A2ZOMG]

Popping in to randomly throw out that D-throw U-smash is a combo on specific characters at 0 basically. Tried it on Marth, Fox, Lucina, and Mega Man. Not very thorough but should give you an idea of the kind of physics you're looking for.

 

[ChivalRuse]

D-throw to up-b is good damage too.

 

[Oblivion129]

D-throw to up-b is good damage too.

That's true, but doing D-throw to an aerial normally puts you in a favorable position to follow up.
I haven't tried if D-throw to Up Smash puts you in a good position, though.

 

[RE-DAZ]

Reading some pages I was wondering what is RAR? Could someone pls tell me?

 

[san.]

Reading some pages I was wondering what is RAR? Could someone pls tell me?

Run->turnaround->jump. The 2nd and 3rd steps are done in a quick motion. It's a confusing name that transferred over to this game. For Ike, when you see this term, we're usually talking about bair, though running away and turning around with a fair/nair isn't so bad either.

 

[Mario766]

That's true, but doing D-throw to an aerial normally puts you in a favorable position to follow up.
I haven't tried if D-throw to Up Smash puts you in a good position, though.

Good luck hitting that, first. You're in a favorable position after any aerial, though back air usually puts you back into neutral. If you can get up throw you can shark, and it's almost always better to be under your opponent, kinda like Melee Marth.

 

[Arrei]

With maxed rage, I star KOed a Ness with 78% damage with a partially charged Quick Draw from roughly around jump height. Clearly rage contributes a large amount of that, but have I been underestimating this move's potential at higher percentages? I was just using it as a punish against an overzealous aerial edgeguard and it took me by complete surprise when it ended the match instead.



As of late I think I've gotten much better at incorporating Nairs into my game, but one thing that continues to elude me is shorthopping them. I can perform other shorthop aerials easily, but attempts to do Nair usually wind up full hopping instead. Dang.

 

[RE-DAZ]

Oh I see, usually I do a RAR but not always hitting; ii think you have to be a certain distance to hit with the Bair

 

[ChivalRuse]

If it doesn't hit, the opponent's character might just be too short to get hit by the rising bair. You may have to RAR short hop, wait, and input the bair as you're descending from the short hop.

 

[RE-DAZ]

thats also hard and often people shielded at high percenteges when the are aware of my moves.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you space the bair, it can't be shield grabbed. And bair has pretty low landing recovery, so it's unlikely that they will be able to punish you out of shield with anything else.

 

[Oblivion129]

Bair also has good shield push, but don't spam it because it's punishable when perfect shielded (and doesn't get pushed at all).

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hard to perfect shield Ike's fastest aerial though