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Parallel Falchion - Lucina General and Q/A

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LIQUID12A

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I personally feel that taunts are useful as a means of communicating online, but that a certain amount of discretion is needed.
I use taunts to promote DLC, if I get a free moment. Gotta spread the word for my support thread. :p
 

EternalFlame

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Fair enough and acceptable point of view however a few things though, Sometimes people need that push to do their best and respect you for murdering them.

Secondly sometimes in the heat of battle misfortune strikes even the one who is already behind and since we're quoting...NVM
It's been along time so I can't remember something about some things can only be shared by fighting them.

Thirdly regarding the mercy stock, I'd rather be the one who get's salty and having someone come back from a stock and beating me then having them get salty that I SD to make the game even (Don't get me wrong there are Friends I have probably done this for even i bracket).

Fighting with honor seems to be the best way to Level up some aspects of your play though and it's not like I'm never down for that xD.
It does come down to personal conviction xD There's always gotta be some sort of context for what you do, and based on that situation, people will interpret it one way or another. Just being considerate of that is a good enough thing.

Like its not as if you should SD every single time they do. Considering the circumstances of whether it was intentional or not and if they actually were able to recover with no difficulty is key to figuring out whether they deserve the mercy SD or not. Its not something easily explained xD as I just sorta decide at the time without thinking too much on it. Whether friend or new person, its important to weigh those options carefully.

Never said you weren't xD And I'm in total agreement with your last statement

I personally feel that taunts are useful as a means of communicating online, but that a certain amount of discretion is needed. Some taunting is fine, and I'll regularly use "Show me ya moves!" or "Come at Me!" as a greeting at the start of matches on For Glory or with friends. I'll also use taunts when I feel I or my opponent has done something particularly awesome, such as when I get a combo kill with ZSS off the top blast zone. In more serious matches, I generally won't use taunts, as it can be seen as unprofessional.

As for SDing in order to even the playing field...in some circles, that's a show of arrogance, rather than respect, and can make people as upset as taunting can. Trying to assign honor or dishonor to actions is difficult, and varies depending on the situation and who you're playing against. Generally just playing at your best ability is the best show of respect you can give someone. :)

Just my 2 cents. :p
Yep, context is the important thing here xD The taunts with the added small messages add another level of consideration when deciding to taunt or not. But what the taunts are used for since the old days is primarily disrespect towards your opponent, but the context changes if done to friends or randoms and how they view it. Call it a better safe than sorry approach, as you should consider what taunting can do to the other player and don't assume they'll take it exactly the way you intend it. Everything can be interpretted based on the circumstances of the match, whether you know the person or not, etc, so as long as you keep those in mind, you should be able to use taunt the way you intend to and not be misunderstood.

Take for example the shield break > taunt. This can be interpretted as:
1)HAH! you got your shield broken, you LOSE! -disrespecting tone-
2)Yes! I broke a shield -self directed satisfied tone-

There are probably other ways to interpret it, but those should be the primary two interpretations that come to mind. As is, it's a 50/50 shot of being taken as being disrespectful or not, but again, circumstances of the match, the person you just shield broke, etc, will have an effect on the interpretted meaning. This is especially true when our only means of communicating mid match is through our characters, which limits our means to express our intentions properly mid fight. We can't taunt carelessly without thinking about how it will be seen by the opponent. We can't always prevent the interpretation of insult from all of our actions mid fight, but we do have control of whether to taunt or not. Just as important, you need to check yourself of what you truly intend by using the taunt function, as being morally correct begins with checking oneself based on the guidelines one lives by (this is on the premise of your guidelines actually being good xD but that's another subject for another forum).

Those guys have a weird sense of what showing arrogance, but that's my own two cents on it xD (nah, I get where they are coming from, but its that varying POV). Of course playing to your best ability is the best show of respect and I couldn't agree with you more on that - the whole mercy SD thing is just one of the intricacies to it. The thing is how we are able to communitcate with our opponents (or lack thereof), so it would have been nicer to have the mics on mid match or something like that for stuff like this (course there's problems to that as well, but that's another discussion for another time). Also how I view the honour code and stuff will be different than another, but the main point here should be for all people to consider how they fight and treat their opponents, as well as consider any meanings that can be misinterpretted.

The way you are and the way you fight all have consequences to them, so always being considerate for yourself and others is probably the nutshell summary of all this xD

I use taunts to promote DLC, if I get a free moment. Gotta spread the word for my support thread. :p
Good job sir xD Dem DLC promos will throw off any misinterpretation, or at least I'd hope they would.

ok, to spare those who don't want to read the wall of text, I placed it all in a spoiler for your convenience xD Miiiiight have gone a little overboard, but I enjoy these discussions too much.
 

EternalFlame

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Although I could be seen as shameless for promoting in the first place. :dizzy:

Oh cool, 7000th post! :bluejump:
maaybe xD The promoting part I can't really help with on how to not sound like it.Though promoting is fine I suppose, so I wouldn't worry about it.
 

Locuan

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So how much shorter is Lucina's range compared to Marth?
We have a pinned thread that highlights the differences between Marth and Lucina. Anyways, to answer your question:
Shaya said:
3. Lucina is slightly shorter than Marth.
This means her reach on her attacks is slightly shorter in every way by a few pixels, this should not really matter 99% of the time. However, it is noticeable that her jab and forward smash will not hit people on Battlefield platforms very easily (or not at all) while Marth can.
 
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Mercify

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I really enjoy playing Lucina, and do well online with her. But, how does she do in tournaments with all other high level player, and is she viable even when playing against high tier characters?
 

EternalFlame

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Welcome to the forum ^^ these repeat questions though :/

But in all seriousness, she's viable in her own right, but I honestly would not be thinking about tiers if you truly enjoy playing Lucina. Play the characters you want to play, don't pick based on who can win alone.

Any character can be used in the tournament scene, but the question is if you're willing to put the time to learn the harder MUs for her (especially if the MU is bad for her)? Also, this question may be better suited for the Lucina General and Q/A thread here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/parallel-falchion-lucina-general-and-q-a.383652/
 
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SBphiloz4

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Related to the new FE game announcement.

Look, the internet is messing with your mop waifu! D:

 
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Locuan

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Hey @ Mercify Mercify I moved your post to the General and Q/A thread. We are still early in the meta-game and things may shift, we still don't have a tier list yet! As time goes on we will obtain more data regarding match-ups, tournament results etc.
 

Mono.

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I surfed through this entire thread looking to see if anyone asked any meaningful questions about Lucina that haven't been answered and I got a social thread and a bunch of tumblr gifs. I thought this was a Q&A thread.
 

LIQUID12A

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I surfed through this entire thread looking to see if anyone asked any meaningful questions about Lucina that haven't been answered and I got a social thread and a bunch of tumblr gifs. I thought this was a Q&A thread.
Well you can partially blame the Zelda raid for the tumblr stuff...but still, we barely get much activity. And then again, what questions are there to ask that are actually meaningful?
 

Locuan

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Okay thanks, sorry if I caused any trouble
You did not cause any trouble! I just moved things to the appropriate section :) If you need help with anything feel free to reach out to me and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

@ Mono. Mono. as per the title, this is a General and Q/A thread. We had a raid by the Zelda mains that contributed to most of the posts you saw. Feel free to ask/answer any questions on this thread.
 

Mercify

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You did not cause any trouble! I just moved things to the appropriate section :) If you need help with anything feel free to reach out to me and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

@ Mono. Mono. as per the title, this is a General and Q/A thread. We had a raid by the Zelda mains that contributed to most of the posts you saw. Feel free to ask/answer any questions on this thread.
Okay, thank you
 

M@v

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Won my region's weekly today going mostly Lucina (Used Fox in like 4-5 games tops). Main takeaway is I feel she's finally caught up to my Fox and Mario for the most part <3. The wifi training has paid off (surprisingly?)
 
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EternalFlame

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Won my region's weekly today going mostly Lucina (Used Fox in like 4-5 games tops). Main takeaway is I feel she's finally caught up to my Fox and Mario for the most part <3. The wifi training has paid off (surprisingly?)
Wifi is worlds better on this compared to Brawl, so a lot of the stuff we do online still translates relatively well to offline play too. Take the training, keep pressing forward, and the improvements you see will be only the beginning ^^
 
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Ekans647

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Won my region's weekly today going mostly Lucina (Used Fox in like 4-5 games tops). Main takeaway is I feel she's finally caught up to my Fox and Mario for the most part <3. The wifi training has paid off (surprisingly?)
Don't be surprised by the results of wifi training. I'm far better than before because of it. Before SSB4, I only had CPU's to train against. Now having actual opponents to not only play, but mind game against has helped me grow! Congats on winning by the way!
 

Locuan

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Won my region's weekly today going mostly Lucina (Used Fox in like 4-5 games tops). Main takeaway is I feel she's finally caught up to my Fox and Mario for the most part <3. The wifi training has paid off (surprisingly?)
That's great news @ M@v M@v . Did you by any chance get some of your matches recorded? Anyways, what match-ups where the one's that gave you the most trouble and how did you go around taking the advantage?
 

Fireemblemfreak

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I literally looked through Lucina's things and didn't find this at first because it's so small. Whyyyyy? Also hello Zelda sass
 

Locuan

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: /

:4lucina: :4marth: =/= :4sheik:

... these, are dark times
I know, but well. Yea I have no excuses :(

On the flip side I got some frame data for you guys. @Aerodrome will work on the full length frame data thread for Lucina but in the mean time I've been doing my own studying/research. I've been working on this with @ Indigo Jeans Indigo Jeans and for now these values are correct from our understanding. However, if you guys see any mistakes feel free to point them out and I'll get to fixing them. I'm still learning how to read the dantarion data.

Jab and Dash Attack

Jab 1 (Indigo's input):
Attack | Hitbox / State | Active Frames (Duration) | Change On | Base Damage | Base Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Miscellaneous | Jab Transition
Jab 1 | 0, 1, 2 | 5-7 (3F) | - | 4.75% | 361° | 20 | 50 | 0 | Attribute: Slash | F20
Jab 2:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc | JT
Jab 2 | 0, 1, 2 | 3-5 (3F) | - | 4.75 | 361 | 60 | 0 | 25 | Attribute: Slash | 20
Dash Attack:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
Dash Attack | 0, 1, 2, 3 | 13-16 (4F) | - | 9.975 | 45 | 58 | 0 | 48 | Attribute: Slash

Tilts
F-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-tilt | 0, 1, 2 | 8-11 (4F) | - | 9.975 | 361 | 77 | 0 | 42 | Attribute: Slash
U-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
U-tilt | 0, 3 | 6-12 (7F) | F9 | 6.65 > 7.125 | 100 > 85 | 100| 0 | 50 > 40 | Attribute: Slash
U-tilt | 1, 2 | 6-12 (7F) | F9 | 6.65 > 7.125 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 50 > 40 | Attribute: Slash
D-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Tripping Modifier | Misc
D-tilt | 0, 1 | 7-8 (2F) | - | 8.075 | 30 | 40| 0 | 45 | Yes | Attribute: Pierce

Smashes

F-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-Smash | 0, 1, 2, 3 | 10-13 (4F) | - | 14.725 | 361 | 80 | 0 | 65 | Attribute: Slash
U-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
U-Smash | 0, 1, 2 | 13-15 (3F) | - | 14.25 | 89 | 90 | 0 | 45 | Attribute: Pierce
U-Smash | 3 | 13-14 (2F) | - | 3.00| 125 | 100 | 155 | 0 | Attribute: Hit
D-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Second Hitbox | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
D-Smash | 0 | 6-7 (2F) > 21-23 (3F) | F21 | 9.5 > 13.775 | 75 > 60 | 88 | 0 | 60 | Attribute: Slash
D-Smash | 1, 2, 3 | 6-7 (2F) > 21-23 (3F) | F21 | 9.5 > 13.775 | 361 | 88 | 0| 60 | Attribute: Slash

Aerials

N-air:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Second Hitbox | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
N-air | 0 | 6-7 (2F) > 15-21 (7F) | F15 | 2.375 > 6.65 | 80 > 361 | 50 > 95 | 0 | 30 > 55 | Attribute: Slash
N-air | 1 | 6-7 (2F) > 15-21 (7F) | F15 | 2.375 > 6.65 | 75 > 361 | 50 > 95 | 0 | 30 > 55 | Attribute: Slash
N-air | 2 | 6-7 (2F) > 15-21 (7F) | F15 | 2.375 > 6.65 | 65 > 361 | 50 > 95 | 0 | 30 > 55 | Attribute: Slash
N-air | 3 | 6-7 (2F) > 15-21 (7F) | F15 | 2.375 > 6.65 | 90 > 361 | 50 > 95 | 0 | 30 > 55 | Attribute: Slash
F-air:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-air | 0, 1, 2 | 6-8 (3F) | 8.075 | 361 | 85 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Slash
B-air:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
B-air | 0, 1, 2 | 7-11 (5F) | 9.975 | 361 | 90 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Slash
U-air:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
U-air | 0, 1, 2, 3 | 5-9 (5F) | 9.975 | 85 | 82 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Slash
D-air:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
D-air | 0 | 11 (1F) | 13.30 | 270 | 80 | 0 | 20 | Attribute: Slash
D-air | 1, 3 | 9-13 (5F) | 11.40 | 361 | 75 | 0 | 30 | Attribute: Slash
D-air | 2 | 9-13 (5F) | 11.40 | 80 | 75 | 0 | 30 | Attribute: Slash

Grabs
Move | Active Frames
Grab | 7-8 (2F)
Dash Grab | 8-9 (2F)
Pivot Grab | 9-10 (2F)
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
Grab Pummel | 0 | 6 (1F) | 2 | 80 | 100 | 30 | 0 | Attribute: Hit

Throws
Move | Hitbox | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-throw | 0 | 4 | 50 | 50 | 0 | 100 | Attribute: Hit
F-throw | 1 | 3 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Hit
B-throw | 0 | 4 | 140 | 60 | 0 | 80 | Attribute: Hit
B-throw | 1 | 3 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Hit
U-throw | 0 | 4 | 93 | 120 | 0 | 70 | Attribute: Hit
U-throw | 1 | 3 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Hit
D-throw | 0 | 5 | 100 | 50 | 0 | 95 | Attribute: Hit
D-throw | 1 | 3 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 40 | Attribute: Hit
 
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EternalFlame

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I know, but well. Yea I have no excuses :(

On the flip side I got some frame data for you guys. @Aerodrome will work on the full length frame data thread for Lucina but in the mean time I've been doing my own studying/research. I've been working on this with @ Indigo Jeans Indigo Jeans and for now these values are correct from our understanding. However, if you guys see any mistakes feel free to point them out and I'll get to fixing them. I'm still learning how to read the dantarion data.

Jab 1 (Indigo's input):
Attack | Hitbox / State | Active Frames (Duration) | Change On | Base Damage | Base Angle | BKB | KBG | WKB | Miscellaneous | Jab Transition
Jab 1 | 0, 1, 2 | 5-7 (3F) | - | 4.75% | 361° | 20 | 50 | 0 | Attribute: Slash | F20
Jab 2:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc | JT
Jab 2 | 0, 1, 2 | 3-5 (3F) | - | 4.75 | 361 | 60 | 0 | 25 | Attribute: Slash | 20
Dash Attack:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
Dash Attack | 0, 1, 2, 3 | 13-16 (4F) | - | 9.975 | 45 | 58 | 0 | 48 | Attribute: Slash
F-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-tilt | 0, 1, 2 | 8-11 (4F) | - | 9.975 | 361 | 77 | 0 | 42 | Attribute: Slash
U-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
U-tilt | 0, 3 | 6-12 (7F) | F9 | 6.65 > 7.125 | 100 > 85 | 100| 0 | 50 > 40 | Attribute: Slash
U-tilt | 1, 2 | 6-12 (7F) | F9 | 6.65 > 7.125 | 361 | 100 | 0 | 50 > 40 | Attribute: Slash
D-tilt:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Tripping Modifier | Misc
D-tilt | 0, 1 | 7-8 (2F) | - | 8.075 | 30 | 40| 0 | 45 | Yes | Attribute: Pierce
F-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
F-Smash | 0, 1, 2, 3 | 10-13 (4F) | - | 14.725 | 361 | 80 | 0 | 65 | Attribute: Slash
U-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Change on | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
U-Smash | 0, 1, 2 | 13-15 (3F) | - | 14.25 | 89 | 90 | 0 | 45 | Attribute: Pierce
U-Smash | 3 | 13-14 (2F) | - | 3.00| 125 | 100 | 155 | 0 | Attribute: Hit
D-smash:
Attack | Hitbox | Active Frames | Second Hitbox | Base Damage | Angle | KBG | WKB | BKB | Misc
D-Smash | 0 | 6-7 (2F) > 21-23 (3F) | F21 | 9.5 > 13.775 | 75 > 60 | 88 | 0 | 60 | Attribute: Slash
D-Smash | 1, 2, 3 | 6-7 (2F) > 21-23 (3F) | F21 | 9.5 > 13.775 | 361 | 88 | 0| 60 | Attribute: Slash
Once you guys have assembled all of the Lucina frame Data (as I think marth's is already completed, not sure), I should link the frame datas on my guide for convenience sake. Some people love their frame data, but that's typically not me and not entirely necessary by the way I wrote it xD What do you think Locuan?
 

Locuan

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Once you guys have assembled all of the Lucina frame Data (as I think marth's is already completed, not sure), I should link the frame datas on my guide for convenience sake. Some people love their frame data, but that's typically not me and not entirely necessary by the way I wrote it xD What do you think Locuan?
That would be great!
 
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Man I should post here more considering I play Lucina sometimes

What do yall think of crescent slash
 
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Yeah thats actually exactly why I asked. I was speaking with @RascalTheCharizard about my findings once. The sweetspot is a guaranteed follow up out of aerial grab releases on all characters except for wario, greninja, sheik, fox, and falco. In those cases the 6% sourspot hits, and even then for all of them except wario you have to wait a bit before acting. It misses on jigglypuff.

Its also a true combo out of dtilt and fair at various percents (notably on bowser fair > crescent works even around 98% with proper spacing). The opponent can DI dtilt either away or down to tech though.

Also I think NAir 1 can be a guaranteed grab setup so thats nice but im not certain if its truly guaranteed
 
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LIQUID12A

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Man I should post here more considering I play Lucina sometimes

What do yall think of crescent slash
I honestly hate it. Dolphin Jump>Crescent Slash because I prefer recovery to damage. It might have a use for others but it definitely doesn't suit me.
 

EternalFlame

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Yeah thats actually exactly why I asked. I was speaking with @RascalTheCharizard about my findings once. The sweetspot is a guaranteed follow up out of aerial grab releases on all characters except for wario, greninja, sheik, fox, and falco. In those cases the 6% sourspot hits, and even then for all of them except wario you have to wait a bit before acting. It misses on jigglypuff.

Its also a true combo out of dtilt and fair at various percents (notably on bowser fair > crescent works even around 98% with proper spacing). The opponent can DI dtilt either away or down to tech though.

Also I think NAir 1 can be a guaranteed grab setup so thats nice but im not certain if its truly guaranteed
On the NAir 1, I can help with that. It's not 100%, but it is really difficult to get out of (especially at early percents).Other attacks too like DTilt or jab are hard to escape once you've been hit with the NAir setup on the ground. It's also possible to go for a Smash, but the window to respond is a bit larger than if you went for some of the more safer options. Catching opponents off guard mid air too can bring in some interesting setups, but those are a bit more risky to go for.

I haven't messed at all with the customs for combos, so that'll be an avenue to explore for the guide in the future xD
 
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Mercify

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Hello! I main Lucina/Marth in Smash 4 and I am curious to see if anyone can help me with spacing and techs. If you are up for the task I'd like to either play with you to find out what I do wrong and also tell me what I can add to my play, or I can supply videos of me playing so you can critique it. Thank you for taking the time to read my post!
 

Locuan

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Hey @ Mercify Mercify . In the same manner as in the Marth Character Sub-forum, I moved your post to the general thread. Here people will be able to help you out. Also, please refrain from doing multiple threads with the same topic/content as it is considered spam. I recommend reading the Terms of Service and Rules of Smashboards :)

If you want to upload videos of your gameplay for critique, go right ahead! Make sure to post them in the Marth-Video Thread for Marth videos or the Lucina Video Thread for Lucina videos. If you need further assistance feel free to let me know!
 
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EternalFlame

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Hey @ Mercify Mercify . In the same manner as in the Marth Character Sub-forum, I moved your post to the general thread. Here people will be able to help you out. Also, please refrain from doing multiple threads with the same topic/content as it is considered spam. I recommend reading the Terms of Service and Rules of Smashboards :)

If you want to upload videos of your gameplay for critique, go right ahead! Make sure to post them in the Marth-Video Thread for Marth videos or the Lucina Video Thread for Lucina videos. If you need further assistance feel free to let me know!
I was about to say xD

Well anyways, I'll be more than happy to help if you wish @ Mercify Mercify , the only thing is when I'm available is the only time I'm able to help out (as school and other things take priority). Critiquing videos is no problem though, just when Im available to play is another thing xD Anywho, you should join the Lucina skype chat so its easier to keep in contact with all the Lucina players that can help you out as well
 
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Mercify

Smash Cadet
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Jan 15, 2015
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Northern New Jersey
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C-Grain_Chrom
I was about to say xD

Well anyways, I'll be more than happy to help if you wish @ Mercify Mercify , the only thing is when I'm available is the only time I'm able to help out (as school and other things take priority). Critiquing videos is no problem though, just when Im available to play is another thing xD Anywho, you should join the Lucina skype chat so its easier to keep in contact with all the Lucina players that can help you out as well
Okay, thank you! I appreciate all this so much, especially since I am new here and am a fairly shy individual.
 
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