Parallel Falchion - Lucina General and Q/A

[Locuan]

I wouldn't say I really "introduced" myself haha, that would require effort!

Hmm you've given me some ideas as far as Shield Breaker goes. Up to now I've only really used it as a punish when I know I can't get in smash or Dancing Blade range fast enough.

I do need to work on baiting airdodges. I'm not really used to them as a concept. Back in Brawl I thought they were useless (which I now know is hilariously incorrect), then I moved to PM were they actually are pretty close to useless. Someitmes I try to condition my opponent into expecting Fair followups out of a Fthrow and then running after them and using Usmash after they airdodge, but that's about it. Guess I just gotta be more creative and patient.

Yep I'm still working on my Lucina/Marth game. It's some things I have seen and have worked on but I still need more lab time. Also, tournament tomorrow D:

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Also, tournament tomorrow D:

I'm jealous. Only tournaments I could really be going to are the monthlies here (one was running today, in fact), but I don't attend both because of financial strains and more importantly, they're a little too far away for my liking (definitely more than an hour away). I'm sure you'll do fine. I remember reading some of your posts in here and you certainly made it sound like you'd been pulling results haha

 

[LIQUID12A]

Alright about time I posted here instead of hiding in the shadows.

I'm curious as to how you guys handle the ever-frustrating threat that is shields. It's no secret that our grab game is lacking and how frequently I find myself going for grabs because I get sick of having my attacks shielded is starting to make me really doubt my character on a whole new level and lose interest in Smash 4 as a result.

As a related question, how often do you fellow Lucinas use Shield Breaker? I've been avoiding it as much as possible because I feel it's too gimmicky and I don't want to make it a habit to rely on it. However after pondering the buff it received and Lucina's overall character design, I'm thinking maybe Sakurai was trying to make it our go-to answer to shielding.

A balance of grab use and Shield Breaker makes shields less of an issue for me, since at worst I don't do anything to the opponent. If they shield and don't move, grab. If they keep shielding, SB punish. It's a matter of pressure. Eventually the raw damage from small attacks piles up, and it makes the opponent that much more nervous to act. And then when extra SB pressure is applied, the chances of breaking a shield successfully increase.

That's just me, though.

 

[Locuan]

I'm jealous. Only tournaments I could really be going to are the monthlies here (one was running today, in fact), but I don't attend both because of financial strains and more importantly, they're a little too far away for my liking (definitely more than an hour away). I'm sure you'll do fine. I remember reading some of your posts in here and you certainly made it sound like you'd been pulling results haha

I was in your situation until not to long ago. So I know what you mean. I've been pulling results with characters that are not my mains though. Diddy Kong, Shiek, ZSS, in friendlies I do fine with Lucina but I still find myself not comfortable with using her in a tournament.

 

[acetuner]

Think Lucina should get a buff? Similar to Shulk's?

 

[Locuan]

There could have been a lot of things that could have been done to Lucina to make her better with her default moveset. Although I believe instead of focusing on what could have been, we should be focusing on how to develop her current tools. How to work around her weaknesses etc. Although that end lag on Marth/Lucina's moves...

 

[C_Mill24]

So, I've been experimenting a lot with Lucina's throws, and I've found that Lucina can really convert off of her down throw with her aerial attacks in a manner similar to Diddy Kong. I've been practicing this for a little while, but I need to see how it works against each character (Mii Fighters included). I can't guarantee that this is a solid combo starting option for her, but I think it may be worth checking out if you haven't tried it yet.

tl;dr: Lucina has a pseudo HOO-HAH!

 

[LIQUID12A]

So, I've been experimenting a lot with Lucina's throws, and I've found that Lucina can really convert off of her down throw with her aerial attacks in a manner similar to Diddy Kong. I've been practicing this for a little while, but I need to see how it works against each character (Mii Fighters included). I can't guarantee that this is a solid combo starting option for her, but I think it may be worth checking out if you haven't tried it yet.

tl;dr: Lucina has a pseudo HOO-HAH!

Tested this on several characters:



Connected reliably(though not as a registered combo) until 74%.

The fact that it isn't a registered combo makes me doubt it.

 

[Locuan]

This has been known since around the the time the game released. It is able to combo when the opponent is below 10% or so. You also must be frame perfect if I'm not mistaken. Another good way to catch opponents with this is by baiting an air dodge. Although, testing the percentages for every character has not been done if I recall correctly. That could be a good project.

 

[Omegascizor456]

I personally really love Lucina! She has great aproaching techniques and is in my opinion only bad against a handful of characters! Also when i use her in for glory i win about 95% of my matches with her! I know that it is not the most competitive playlist/mode but it is better practice than nothing.... But do you guys think Lucina has potential?

 

[Dragonhunter970]

Then why would we play as her if we didn't?

 

[Locuan]

Hey there @ Omegascizor456 . First of all, I moved your post here to the Lucina General Thread. These sort of topics are more suited to belong here. On another note, the competitive potential of a character is based among a lot of variables. The variables include various things:

• Frame Data
• Tool-set: This includes her moves, trap scenarios, edgeguarding, etc.
  
• Offline tournament results utilizing a competitive format.
• Current Meta-Game analysis.
• Match-Ups.

Amongst other things that I may have missed.

 

[Omegascizor456]

Hey there @ Omegascizor456 . First of all, I moved your post here to the Lucina General Thread. These sort of topics are more suited to belong here. On another note, the competitive potential of a character is based among a lot of variables. The variables include various things:

• Frame Data
• Tool-set: This includes her moves, trap scenarios, edgeguarding, etc.
  
• Offline tournament results utilizing a competitive format.
• Current Meta-Game analysis.
• Match-Ups.

Amongst other things that I may have missed.

Ok thanks for letting me know! It was my bad...

 

[Locuan]

No problem, I'm here to help

 

[Omegascizor456]

So, I've been experimenting a lot with Lucina's throws, and I've found that Lucina can really convert off of her down throw with her aerial attacks in a manner similar to Diddy Kong. I've been practicing this for a little while, but I need to see how it works against each character (Mii Fighters included). I can't guarantee that this is a solid combo starting option for her, but I think it may be worth checking out if you haven't tried it yet.

tl;dr: Lucina has a pseudo HOO-HAH!

Yeah i have noticed this as well! I am really loving the D-throw to Up-Air combos the most!:D

 

[Locuan]

Yeah i have noticed this as well! I am really loving the D-throw to Up-Air combos the most!:D

It won't really combo after 15% or so. After that percentage range, it is all about baiting the opponent to make the move you want so that you can punish appropriately.

 

[Omegascizor456]

It won't really combo after 15% or so. After that percentage range, it is all about baiting the opponent to make the move you want so that you can punish appropriately.

True! And one question i have for you? Is perfect pivoting really crucial to marth/lucina? Because i use it from time to time but i see others using it almost constantly... What do you do?

 

[Locuan]

True! And one question i have for you? Is perfect pivoting really crucial to marth/lucina? Because i use it from time to time but i see others using it almost constantly... What do you do?

Well, I've seen a lot of people say it is essential. It provides you with a great tool. In my case, it's something I rarely use in my gameplay. However, it does have a lot of benefits. I am still testing it out.

 

[Omegascizor456]

Well, I've seen a lot of people say it is essential. It provides you with a great tool. In my case, it's something I rarely use in my gameplay. However, it does have a lot of benefits. I am still testing it out.

Yeah so am i.... I dont see it doing too much though to be perfectly honest.

 

[Locuan]

Yeah so am i.... I dont see it doing too much though to be perfectly honest.

Marth and Lucina are both spacing characters. Perfect pivoting allows both characters to close the gap or retreat enough to space their attacks correctly and avoid potentially punishable situations particularly when perfect pivoting with tilts.

 

[Zethire]

Sorry if this has already been discussed and I wasn't able to find it, but I'm curious to know if anyone can think of a practical use for Lucina's lag-cancelling shield breaker (or whatever that technique is called) when recovering. It seems like there's not really any point in trying to pull it off as any time one tried to land on the stage with it, the opponent would either be guarding the edge or be too far away to make any real use of it.

 

[Saclam]

@ Locuan you find perfect pivot tilts more useful for spacing and punishing than a reverse perfect pivot f smash?

 

[Locuan]

Sorry if this has already been discussed and I wasn't able to find it, but I'm curious to know if anyone can think of a practical use for Lucina's lag-cancelling shield breaker (or whatever that technique is called) when recovering. It seems like there's not really any point in trying to pull it off as any time one tried to land on the stage with it, the opponent would either be guarding the edge or be too far away to make any real use of it.

Lag cancelling shield breaker? I've never heard of this before. Where did you get that information?

@ Locuan you find perfect pivot tilts more useful for spacing and punishing than a reverse perfect pivot f smash?

Both are used for the same purpose, spacing and punishing. Except with Smash attacks you have to be sure you will connect. If not you will be punished. I would perfect pivot tilts more often than using Smash attacks for this reason. Plus, d-tilt is incredibly good as a poking tool anyways.

 

[Zethire]

It seems that if you manage to land on the stage just as the last frames of shield breaker are ending, it seems to cancel nearly all landing lag and one can act out of it. Pardon me if this is some other mechanic I'm unaware of, or I'm phrasing this poorly. I could try recording a video to show what I mean.

 

[Locuan]

A video would help. I can't seem to find information on this.

 

[Zethire]

Sorry, it took so long; I was having issues uploading it.

 

[Locuan]

@ Z Zethire , what you have there is basically that the animation for the Shieldbreaker ended right before you landed so that is why you can perform any action after you landed. It's not that the frames for the end of the move where cancelled. Thanks for the video though. That way I was able to observe correctly and deduct my response with certainty.

 

[Zethire]

Thanks for the clarification, I think I understand why that happens now. Though I'm still curious whether or not that happens in any other situation, and whether or not it's really useful at all.

 

[Locuan]

Yes, as long as an aerial moves animation ends before the short hop animation ends, once you land you should be able to perform any action without recovery frames. It is most certainly useful since you don't have landing lag once you touch the ground. For example, try doing a F-air when you are landing. You will see that you have certain recovery frames at that moment. On the other hand, perform a F-air as soon as your short hop begins, you will not have the landing lag.

 

[Zethire]

Okay, I think I understand how it works and how to apply it now. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Pipmonchan]

3 weeks has passed since I confirmed myself to be a 100% Lucina main and I have started to really enjoy playing her!
The excitement of pulling off a dair makes me scream the same way as I did with Falcon's knee in the past (UH!!) Going for it really gives me a rush of adrenaline as I chase people off stage. The fact that it is hard to pull makes it all more rewarding in the end.

I am so happy I found my character. Keeping the opponent on their toes with and agressive play (onstage and offstage), a fast Fsmash and a Shieldbreaker that can come out anytime is just awesome.

Some vines I recorded last night in For Glory:
http://vine.co/v/O2nQDlTwjgO
http://vine.co/v/O2nFQqAXMt5
http://vine.co/v/O2nTePxjVeu

I'll be posting more as I gather more kills :D

What do you like the most about maining Lucina?

 

[Locuan]

Hola @ Pipmonchan ! First of all, welcome to the Lucina Boards! I moved your post to the Lucina General Thread. Please utilize this thread whenever you have any sort of general discussion you would like to partake regarding Smash, Lucina, etc. Additionally, when you have videos regarding your gameplay feel free to post them on the Lord's Logbook - Lucina User Video Thread. As the name implies that is our video thread here on the Lucina boards. Both of these threads are pinned to our character boards so they are easily accessible.

 

[Pipmonchan]

Ok thanks! Sorry about that.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

Hello fellow changers of fate,
We have a conquest against peach and Zelda in the wiiu version.Let's support this coummity and win! V.S. V.S. (Princess Punch-Out!)

P.S. @ Locuan do you think we should have a Lucina conquest discussion?

 

[Locuan]

P.S. @ Locuan do you think we should have a Lucina conquest discussion?

There is already a Conquest Discussion thread on the Wii U/3DS online sub-forum but it regards all the challenges that are placed and they discuss every conquest entry. Anyways, feel free to discuss Lucina's conquest results in here on the general thread. I've been out all day in a tournament. How does Lucina fare on this conquest at the moment?

 

[Dragonhunter970]

IDK it doesn't say.

 

[Locuan]

IDK it doesn't say.

I don't know how conquest works I don't really play online much Could you explain the process?

 

[Muro]

Ok so I read the pinned thread about marth/lucina differences but I still have some doubts. Maybe you guys can clarify.

It says marth is taller, so he has an easier time hitting characters on platforms above with tilts some times. Does that mean lucina would have an easier time hitting grounded characters with aerials? For example, if you input a fair right as you jump, is the hitbox lucina creates lower than the one marth creates?

Also, is her hurtbox smaller?

 

[Locuan]

Ok so I read the pinned thread about marth/lucina differences but I still have some doubts. Maybe you guys can clarify.

It says marth is taller, so he has an easier time hitting characters on platforms above with tilts some times. Does that mean lucina would have an easier time hitting grounded characters with aerials? For example, if you input a fair right as you jump, is the hitbox lucina creates lower than the one marth creates?

Also, is her hurtbox smaller?

The differences in their heights are basically pixels. Marth has only a few more to hit opponents that are on a battlefield platform with f-smash tipper while Lucina can't. Other than that, the difference is almost unnoticeable. They both can hit opponents on platforms with tilts without any problem.

 

[C_Mill24]

Ignore this post.