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Overused or GOOD?

Blaze93

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
24
Question.

Is Meta Knight actually a good character that one can get good with "quicker" than others ( not as hard..? )

Or is he just another overused character because of his sword, jump and all that jazz like Snake. Except I believe snake is actually good.

Because as many know, I main Sheik, But i want as econdary/main for tourneys/winning. Its a toss up between meta and Falco right now. But I think Meta has an easier learning curve..
 

BrawlBro

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
770
Location
michigan
Question.

Is Meta Knight actually a good character that one can get good with "quicker" than others ( not as hard..? )

Or is he just another overused character because of his sword, jump and all that jazz like Snake. Except I believe snake is actually good.

Because as many know, I main Sheik, But i want as econdary/main for tourneys/winning. Its a toss up between meta and Falco right now. But I think Meta has an easier learning curve..

as many know? um who? Random people on the internet do not know who tf you main.

--

Anyways to put it simply yes meta knight is good. Yes you can get good with him quick, mostly because all his attacks are fast and easy to use.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
He is both overused and broken. If you lose with MK, you are not better than your opponent, no matter who they are. period.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
He is both overused and broken. If you lose with MK, you are not better than your opponent, no matter who they are. period.
I *think* you meant to say "If you win with MK" correct me if you are wrong.

And, in case I'm right, that is a very poor way to reconcile your losses. It's blatantly obvious that MK isn't broken, he's just really good.

MK is a solid character, he can KO decently, has nice gimps, a great recovery, and has ridiculous b-moves that can pretty much force people out of their camping. If you like to go on the offensive, this is definitely one of your best choices.
 

AmigoOne

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
307
MK is a solid character, he can KO decently, has nice gimps, a great recovery, and has ridiculous b-moves that can pretty much force people out of their camping. If you like to go on the offensive, this is definitely one of your best choices.
A little bit more than solid, considering starting and ending lag for all of his moves, they do a good amount of damage and has ridiculous amount of knockback.

He is good, he's more than just good. And thats why he's overused. It's kinda how it goes.
 

WastingPenguins

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
827
Location
Ohio
I *think* you meant to say "If you win with MK" correct me if you are wrong.

And, in case I'm right, that is a very poor way to reconcile your losses. It's blatantly obvious that MK isn't broken, he's just really good.

MK is a solid character, he can KO decently, has nice gimps, a great recovery, and has ridiculous b-moves that can pretty much force people out of their camping. If you like to go on the offensive, this is definitely one of your best choices.
Nah he meant it just like he said it-- that Meta is a REALLY good character with few or no bad matchups, so if you lose with Metaknight then your opponent is just plain better than you.

Don't TOTALLY agree but I know what he means.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
That's what I get for making a hasty response, lol, but I think you know what I meant. Funny stuff though XD.
Nah he meant it just like he said it
Yeah, it's very possible, although it's worded very awkwardly. That and it's pretty obvious that if you lose to someone you aren't better than them. I say that with the meaning of consistent losses versus a single match. All in all, it's still a very weird statement to make.
 

acv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
496
Location
VA
meta knight IS over used.just leave him alone and go main snake.
 

Puddin

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
1,333
Location
Na'wlans
Tires don exits..
If you are to ever survive in the Smash Boards you have to agree with tiers, otherwise prepare for massive flame from major tourney ***s. Tornado is spammed to stop campy people, besides spamming the tornado is a bad thing.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
If you are to ever survive in the Smash Boards you have to agree with tiers, otherwise prepare for massive flame from major tourney ***s. Tornado is spammed to stop campy people, besides spamming the tornado is a bad thing.
Lol, I doubt he would go with the intental mispelling AND THEN explain why mk is a good character unless that was a joke. "Tires don exits" is going to happen very rarely by accident.
 

Airwalkerr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
271
Location
Small Town Alberta, Canada
MK is not better than Snake. MK is easy to learn, yes. MK has virtually no lag on all of his attacks, ridiculous specials, extra jumps, and all that other jazz. But MK will soon have no depth, imo. I believe that he is a shallow character, and as the meta-game progresses, I believe he will be surpassed, tho never left behind, because he is incredibly easy to play. A 6 year old girl could play as him and win.
 

ICANTCOUNT123456

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
348
Location
North Carolina
MK is not better than Snake. MK is easy to learn, yes. MK has virtually no lag on all of his attacks, ridiculous specials, extra jumps, and all that other jazz. But MK will soon have no depth, imo. I believe that he is a shallow character, and as the meta-game progresses, I believe he will be surpassed, tho never left behind, because he is incredibly easy to play. A 6 year old girl could play as him and win.
Truthfully, and I will get flamed for this, but replace MK and Snake in your post, and that's how i feel.
 

Puddin

Smash Lord
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Na'wlans
lolwut?

you mean switch MetaKnight with Snake? meaning Snake has extra jumps, is shallow and has no lag? Not flame, just don't quite understand what your saying.
 

bowz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Messages
258
Location
Western PA
lolwut?

you mean switch MetaKnight with Snake? meaning Snake has extra jumps, is shallow and has no lag? Not flame, just don't quite understand what your saying.
No, he means Snake is just as broken and overused as metaknight. Actually, he's probably MORE broken and MORE overused than meta.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
*sigh* I'm not sure how long I'll let this thread live. I already know where it'll end up.

But to answer your question, go with Falco. Metaknight is good and overused, meaning that people are getting used to him right now. And there are some hard counters for MK, like Snake, where MK has no chance of winning (although there aren't too many). In the end, you have to look at matchups. Who aren't you very good against with Shiek, and who are Shiek's biggest counters? Then compare that to the characters MK or Falco are good against. For example, Falco is great against Snake, but MK is horrible against him. If your Shiek decimates Snake, then give a point to MK, because you don't need to counter him, but if your Shiek can't beat Snake then give the point to Falco.
 

Ace55

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
1,642
Location
Amsterdam
*sigh* I'm not sure how long I'll let this thread live. I already know where it'll end up.
I better sneak a response in then. MK is crazy good, Snake is crazy good, even G&W is crazy good (turtle anyone?). But none of them are broken, and they all have some things going against them. But they're still way better than most characters, if MK upB didn't kill so easily and if Snake's Ftilt was a little less potent things would have balanced out a lot better IMO.

And oh yeah, SPAM SPAM SPAM.
 

Xaile

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
32
Location
Seattle, WA
Metaknight is like the (Melee) Sheik of Brawl, a fantastic character that's easy to pick up and play once and a while (assuming you know the basics of the character), that will likely remain near the top of the (currently not-yet-created) tier list.

Falco, on the other hand, is annoying to fight against, since he can be played very campy, but he also has great aerials and smashes (and chaingrab, ow). I don't have a simile for him, though. :ohwell:

Ultimately, I agree with SamuraiPanda about picking the character that you feel does best against your main's (Sheik's) difficult matchups. That said, I don't personally know enough about Sheik's matchups in general (or your Sheik, specifically) to give you advice to pick one or the other.

meta knight IS over used.just leave him alone and go main snake.
That's the funniest thing I've read all morning, and I think I'm going to put the quote in my sig so the hilarity can be preserved.
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
Metaknight is like the (Melee) Sheik of Brawl, a fantastic character that's easy to pick up and play once and a while (assuming you know the basics of the character), that will likely remain near the top of the (currently not-yet-created) tier list.
I was just going to write something like that, he will be a top 3 character no matter what...
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
My awkwardly phrased post meant that MK is the best and most broken character in the game by far of any other character including Snake.(IMO) He has no weaknesses. Awesome recovery, awesome priority, damage, and speed in both his aerial and ground game. A very far sliding grab, dash that goes through shields( thus can't be sg-ed), multiple jumps, gimping power, and juggling power. He's broken, get over it. His jab from behind him cuts through Olimar's fsmash...
MK doesn't need depth. He's MK.

Edit: I see what y'all are fretin' bout. Let me word it like this:

He is both overused and broken. If you lose with MK, you are not better than your opponent, no matter which character they are. period.
 

meta master

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
336
Location
Lewis Center, OH
He is both overused and broken. If you lose with MK, you are not better than your opponent, no matter who they are. period.
meta knight has weakness, but many players either suck, don't exploit it, or just plain can't cause the other players too good. meta knight does require skill to use. hes easy for noobs to pick up and main but they would get creamed by any decent player. however, if they have some decent skill...
 

MusicalMike

Needs to try harder
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Slippi.gg
MUSI#321
Metaknight/Snake/Marth/GAW are all very good characters, and seem to be the ones I see a lot of people talking about. Although it is true that yes they have been winning most tournaments and that they are very very good...the fact of the matter is...

Metaknight is not banned. Why is he not banned? Because he isn't an invicible foe. Meaning...you CAN beat Metaknight, you CAN defeat him using someone other than Metaknight or Snake. People seem to complain about him all the time as though he is too good...when you get into the mindset that he IS too good, that puts you in the mindset that you can't beat him...but you CAN beat metaknight with say...Peach if you know what you are doing.

I think a HUGE difference between Brawl and Melee is that in melee picking top characters to win worked a lot better than it does now. In Brawl you could always pick the harder path of learning a character that has been unexplored and figure out how to win with them. This early in the game anything is possible, after all DK got major attention after owning and so did IC's when their infinites were discovered. Go out of your way to be the inventor. Master your character, get out there, and pwn this fragile metagame we are in.
 

Excellence

Smash Champion
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Messages
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The Legion of Doom Headquarters
Metaknight/Snake/Marth/GAW are all very good characters, and seem to be the ones I see a lot of people talking about. Although it is true that yes they have been winning most tournaments and that they are very very good...the fact of the matter is...

Metaknight is not banned. Why is he not banned? Because he isn't an invicible foe. Meaning...you CAN beat Metaknight, you CAN defeat him using someone other than Metaknight or Snake. People seem to complain about him all the time as though he is too good...when you get into the mindset that he IS too good, that puts you in the mindset that you can't beat him...but you CAN beat metaknight with say...Peach if you know what you are doing.

I think a HUGE difference between Brawl and Melee is that in melee picking top characters to win worked a lot better than it does now. In Brawl you could always pick the harder path of learning a character that has been unexplored and figure out how to win with them. This early in the game anything is possible, after all DK got major attention after owning and so did IC's when their infinites were discovered. Go out of your way to be the inventor. Master your character, get out there, and pwn this fragile metagame we are in.
To an extent, I agree with you. Metaknight is a very good character and can be particularly difficult to face, but he is not invincible. Part of the reason people suck at using characters like Snake and Metaknight, is because they're always looking to master someone easily and win right off the bat. Instead of picking a character they're willing to spend time with and master, they look at the tire list, see who's on top and go, "Oh my ****ing god! I totally need to main you and learn you in five minutes," instead of going and picking someone a lot harder to use that clearly reflects their style of play.
 

Amide

Smash Lord
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
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Maine
*sigh* I'm not sure how long I'll let this thread live. I already know where it'll end up.

But to answer your question, go with Falco. Metaknight is good and overused, meaning that people are getting used to him right now. And there are some hard counters for MK, like Snake, where MK has no chance of winning (although there aren't too many). In the end, you have to look at matchups. Who aren't you very good against with Shiek, and who are Shiek's biggest counters? Then compare that to the characters MK or Falco are good against. For example, Falco is great against Snake, but MK is horrible against him. If your Shiek decimates Snake, then give a point to MK, because you don't need to counter him, but if your Shiek can't beat Snake then give the point to Falco.



Against Snake, Meta Knight has some chance of winning. But whenever I vs. a Snake, I change to DK. You're matchup advice is very good though.
 

LP4Life666

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
427
It's possible to have a character that is both overpowered AND overplayed. This is because most people enjoy winning, and using characters like MK gives them the best odds to win. Few smashers pick their characters because they actually enjoy them, knowing full well that they might not end up winning many matches. (For proof, see the Yoshi boards...I'm kidding)

When I picked Snake, I had no idea he would end up "top tier!!111" I guess I just got lucky.
 

MorpheusVGX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
498
Location
Buenos Aires, Capital Federal
To an extent, I agree with you. Metaknight is a very good character and can be particularly difficult to face, but he is not invincible. Part of the reason people suck at using characters like Snake and Metaknight, is because they're always looking to master someone easily and win right off the bat. Instead of picking a character they're willing to spend time with and master, they look at the tire list, see who's on top and go, "Oh my ****ing god! I totally need to main you and learn you in five minutes," instead of going and picking someone a lot harder to use that clearly reflects their style of play.
That's right. In the poll about character favorites, there are a lot of people for every character, but at tournaments they get coward or loose, and we see always they same chars at the finals. I am getting tired of Snake's and MKs.

I can also see both character weaknesses and I know I can beat them with other characters. And I agree with you when you say that in Brawl there is still much to discover from unexplored characters and that , in other words , the game seems more balanced. If you pick a good character, you are no so supreme over others as you were on Melee (ejm.. Sheik, Fox, Falco).

I've decided to main Kirby.. and believe me.. I am going defeat Snakes and MKs no matter what it takes. I will develop specialized strategies to do so if necessary...
I will keep with my main and take him to the top .. That's the same spirit I expect from you.. ^^
 

MusicalMike

Needs to try harder
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Mar 3, 2008
Messages
802
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Greer,SC
Slippi.gg
MUSI#321
This is what happens.

1. Game comes out (lulz)

2. A few characters are discovered to be advantageous to use in a competitive environment.

3. Because this is a competitive community, and we play to win, we focus our attention on these primary "win" characters that have been discovered. After all why choose a character that MAY win when you can choose a character you KNOW is winning right now?

4. Attentions on these characters (I'll say...snake and MK) becomes disproportionate to the attention on other characters who appeared to be less suitable for competitive play. Naturally because more effort is put into these characters their techniques and overall metagame is developed quicker. Also naturally because more people focus their attention on these characters they probably use them to...which means since more people use Snake then say Yoshi,that more Snake mains enter tournaments. And because Snake mains are using a more developed character (snake duh), Snakes win more tournaments than anyone else, not only because their character is being developed quickly, but because many people play him… thus increasing the chances of a snake winning a tournament.


Here is why at this stage in the game you can ignore the current trend and set out to win with an underused/never used character.

1. No match up is ever impossible. Being Counterpicked sucks but you can learn how to deal with your counterpick in order to win the match. When someone who is counterpicked knows what to do against the person that is counterpicking them, they have a much higher chance of surviving the match up. The thing though is that this method of “no match up is impossible” is much harder to get used to then the much more conventional method- “Why do it the hard way and get counterpicked when you can just counterpick right back?” And as harsh as this sounds because counterpicking is easier and more productive in the long run (you learn more than one character), people choose method 2 over method 1



2. In the business world, an entrepreneur is a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, esp. a business,usually with considerable initiative and risk.
Be the entrepreneur. Rather than choose a character just because he is winning, try someone different. Pick up Yoshi/Samus/Jigglypuff/Peach/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf/etc. Because the metagame is so new and because all the attention is being placed on the overused characters right now, this is YOUR time to be the inventor. Swallow your pride, pick up a new character, and learn them. Don’t be afraid if you get your butt kicked by the Overused characters for sometime. Remember-they have had much more attention and support than your character. But eventually you will begin to see the results and the fruits of your labor, and as a matter of fact, you’ll begin to reap the advantages and rewards of using an underused character. By the way, some of our most successful smashers have been entrepreneurs. Taj/Bum/Chu Dat/Mango anyone? M2/DK/ICs/Puff wtf ftw? This is YOUR time to learn a new character. Get out there and do it while the community is still young, and get those props you deserve for quite possibly altering our metagame. .
 

GimmeAnFSharp

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
291
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Boston
Meta Knight is nasty good. If you can figure out his few basics, that'll get you good enough to come close to winning any tourney. Get his advanced techs down? Congratulations, you're just like every other MK player out there.
 

WolfCypher

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This is what happens.

1. Game comes out (lulz)

2. A few characters are discovered to be advantageous to use in a competitive environment.

3. Because this is a competitive community, and we play to win, we focus our attention on these primary "win" characters that have been discovered. After all why choose a character that MAY win when you can choose a character you KNOW is winning right now?

4. Attentions on these characters (I'll say...snake and MK) becomes disproportionate to the attention on other characters who appeared to be less suitable for competitive play. Naturally because more effort is put into these characters their techniques and overall metagame is developed quicker. Also naturally because more people focus their attention on these characters they probably use them to...which means since more people use Snake then say Yoshi,that more Snake mains enter tournaments. And because Snake mains are using a more developed character (snake duh), Snakes win more tournaments than anyone else, not only because their character is being developed quickly, but because many people play him… thus increasing the chances of a snake winning a tournament.


Here is why at this stage in the game you can ignore the current trend and set out to win with an underused/never used character.

1. No match up is ever impossible. Being Counterpicked sucks but you can learn how to deal with your counterpick in order to win the match. When someone who is counterpicked knows what to do against the person that is counterpicking them, they have a much higher chance of surviving the match up. The thing though is that this method of “no match up is impossible” is much harder to get used to then the much more conventional method- “Why do it the hard way and get counterpicked when you can just counterpick right back?” And as harsh as this sounds because counterpicking is easier and more productive in the long run (you learn more than one character), people choose method 2 over method 1



2. In the business world, an entrepreneur is a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, esp. a business,usually with considerable initiative and risk.
Be the entrepreneur. Rather than choose a character just because he is winning, try someone different. Pick up Yoshi/Samus/Jigglypuff/Peach/Captain Falcon/Ganondorf/etc. Because the metagame is so new and because all the attention is being placed on the overused characters right now, this is YOUR time to be the inventor. Swallow your pride, pick up a new character, and learn them. Don’t be afraid if you get your butt kicked by the Overused characters for sometime. Remember-they have had much more attention and support than your character. But eventually you will begin to see the results and the fruits of your labor, and as a matter of fact, you’ll begin to reap the advantages and rewards of using an underused character. By the way, some of our most successful smashers have been entrepreneurs. Taj/Bum/Chu Dat/Mango anyone? M2/DK/ICs/Puff wtf ftw? This is YOUR time to learn a new character. Get out there and do it while the community is still young, and get those props you deserve for quite possibly altering our metagame. .
This is why I think that the process of making tier list are flawed. I don't have any biased for or against tier lists (god knows we don't need another whiny "I hate tier list" or annoying "we NEED tier list" member here) but obviously if the only characters you ever see develop are certain high or top tier characters, then there really isn't a chance to fairly see exactly how good or how bad the other characters are. But thankfully, match-up charts have become popular.

Snake is defintly more broken then MetaKnight
Oh, yes this is true, no exception. However, as Snake is more broken than MK, KM requires less time, skill, and effort. To kick *** with Snake, you have to know what to do. To kick *** with MK, you can take your teeth and bite randomly on your controller and still win. You don't even need thumbs to use MK. OK, you see where I'm going...

They're both broken, but one requires more practice than the other.

Meta Knight is nasty good. If you can figure out his few basics, that'll get you good enough to come close to winning any tourney. Get his advanced techs down? Congratulations, you're just like every other MK player out there.
I like to think I'm my own MK player :embarrass
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
Metaknight is not banned. Why is he not banned? Because he isn't an invicible foe. Meaning...you CAN beat Metaknight, you CAN defeat him using someone other than Metaknight or Snake. People seem to complain about him all the time as though he is too good...when you get into the mindset that he IS too good, that puts you in the mindset that you can't beat him...but you CAN beat metaknight with say...Peach if you know what you are doing.
The reason he isn't banned is really b/c tourney hosts are too scared to get disowned by everyone. Bob bans MK and every hates him. That's what happened in texas with the IC. It's ridiculous. MK is the best character in the game by far.

Meta Knight is nasty good. If you can figure out his few basics, that'll get you good enough to come close to winning any tourney. Get his advanced techs down? Congratulations, you're just like every other MK player out there.
basics, lol. you jump and fair>jump>fair>jump>fair>jump>dair. Good job, you killed your opponent...

If your MK opponent is patient, he shouldn't lose to anyone. It's ridiculous. Whenever I use MK against my friend's Zelda for him to practice, I tend to make Zelda approach b/c it's too costly to let MK approach her. MK's offense>>>>Zelda's defense. Zelda's offense<MK's defense. It's not as bad for Zelda for her to approach than it is for MK.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
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Sep 12, 2005
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9,007
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Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
@dangr: Do they overcentralize the game. Is it, use this character(s) or you lose?
Don't mistake me I am not challenging you I am rather asking since I rarely use both of the characters so I am not familiar with them.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
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Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
@dangr: Do they overcentralize the game. Is it, use this character(s) or you lose?
Don't mistake me I am not challenging you I am rather asking since I rarely use both of the characters so I am not familiar with them.
of course they're the center of this game. Snake and MK are very overpowered and require almost no skill to use. Assuming your opponent is at an equal skill level, if you don't use MK or Snake, you're hurting yourself. If you use any other average character, you have to overcome your character's weaknesses and utilize their strengths. You don't have to focus on that with MK and Snake(for the most part with Snake) If you're MK, you don't have spotdodge or roll. If your opponent is next to you, you can just jab>ftilt or dsmash until you're out of range. If they're to the left of you, you can just fair>fair>fair or if they're up, you can just upair>upair>upair, and if you do it correctly, they can't avoid it. That simple.

Edit: "Is it, use this character(s) or you lose?"

If your opponent is at an even skill level and doesn't make dumb mistakes, then yes, they should win.
 
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