AlAxe
Smash Journeyman
What exactly is the difference between smash DI and regular DI or is there a difference?
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Overswarm's get everyone better really freaking fast project
- Thread starter Overswarm
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Sudai
Stuff here
There's no ASDI in Brawl.. : (This is a good thread and Overswarm is a good person
Question: to get out of meatknight's fair/bair, do I need to SDI the first hit? Or the second hit? Can I just ASDI?
I'm not too sure if you can't SDI out of MK's B/FAirs, but if you could, you'd need to start the SDI on the first hit at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttJLmAT5PUAlAxe said:
OS, you might want to put that vid in the first post.
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
Well Ness's running attack and yo-yos can be SDI'd upwards to escape. It's particularly easy on the second hit of his running attack.
Are you just taking Scotu's word on that one? Cuz I'm pretty sure it's still in...
Sudai
Stuff here
I'm not just taking Scotu's word on it. I'm taking my word for it from my own personal experience and I'm 98% sure it's out.
AlAxe
Smash Journeyman
So someone correct me if I'm wrong but smash DI is used to escape multi hit moves by rotating the control stick and cstick in a quarter circle during hitlag. Is this more efffective than regular DI when trying to survive something like a Falcon punch or is it only useful against multi hit moves? My regular DI is very good but this smash DI is still a little bit fuzzy for me.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
I"m going to try to explain this once more:
In Smash (and pretty much every game in which you can be attacked) there is a small window of frames after you are attacked in which you are stunned. We call this hitstun. Hitstun is the reason that combos exist in games with combos.
In Smash however, a new layer of depth was added with DI. In All the Smash games, during Hitstun, you can actually move your character. This is Smash DI. To see a clear example of smash DI, go into training mode, decrease the speed of the game to see it better, and have Sheik (or anyone with multi-hit jabs) do their multi hit jab combo on you. first note what happens when you press nothing.
Then do it again, but this time, repeatedly mash your control stick backward. you will see your character move backwards during the hitstun. Again, this is "smash DI"
Regular DI is holding a direction on the control stick while you are being launched from an attack to affect your trajectory. It has nothing to do with hitstun, really. To see this in action, pick ike vs. jiggs in training mode. put jiggs at 30% and Charge a f-smash with ike. It should kill her. Now do the same thing except have the jiggs hold up and forward before she gets launched. she should survive. That's regular DI
In Brawl smash DI is mainly used to get out of multi hit attacks and other combos, but due to the generally very low amounts of hitstun, it doesn't come into play in many other situations. In melee, smash DI came into play much more often and could be used in a bunch of situations. In the original smash bros. there was no "regular DI", smash DI was the only thing you could do.
In Smash (and pretty much every game in which you can be attacked) there is a small window of frames after you are attacked in which you are stunned. We call this hitstun. Hitstun is the reason that combos exist in games with combos.
In Smash however, a new layer of depth was added with DI. In All the Smash games, during Hitstun, you can actually move your character. This is Smash DI. To see a clear example of smash DI, go into training mode, decrease the speed of the game to see it better, and have Sheik (or anyone with multi-hit jabs) do their multi hit jab combo on you. first note what happens when you press nothing.
Then do it again, but this time, repeatedly mash your control stick backward. you will see your character move backwards during the hitstun. Again, this is "smash DI"
Regular DI is holding a direction on the control stick while you are being launched from an attack to affect your trajectory. It has nothing to do with hitstun, really. To see this in action, pick ike vs. jiggs in training mode. put jiggs at 30% and Charge a f-smash with ike. It should kill her. Now do the same thing except have the jiggs hold up and forward before she gets launched. she should survive. That's regular DI
In Brawl smash DI is mainly used to get out of multi hit attacks and other combos, but due to the generally very low amounts of hitstun, it doesn't come into play in many other situations. In melee, smash DI came into play much more often and could be used in a bunch of situations. In the original smash bros. there was no "regular DI", smash DI was the only thing you could do.
Inferno_blaze
Smash Lord
I think what he meant is how do you perform it most efficiently, does slapping the analogue stick in one direction repeatedly work best or rolling it in a half roll work better or what?
infomon
Smash Scientist
That was the most clear and concise explanation of this stuff I've seen yet, and answers a couple things I wasn't quite sure about. Thanks!
It would depend on the move, and the trajectory you want to use to come out of it, right? But circling gives more smash-DI inputs per unit of time (since each of the 8 different directions count) rather than repeatedly hitting the same direction, so it's probably more "efficient" in that sense..... amirite?
J4pu
Smash Champion
So smash DI really has nothing to do with using Cstick to DI, it's still just the analog stick? If this is the case I'm gunna feel really stupid.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
bair is single hit....it's a single, long lasting hitbox
the only multi hits there are the jab, caught in the AS, ftilt, and the dair. The rest are combos and most of them (B> is avoided by most ppl at 35%, fair is DI'd by lighter character at ~80% to avoid a second fair and is easily AD'd anyway. Fair>nair is awesome but is hard to do if they dont shield the fair or are at similarly low percents to fair>fair.
Lucario
jabs (might also want to show how to DI from AA>force palm)
ftilt
dair
behind the AS
No no no no no. You're confusing hitstun with hitlag. Hitlag is while the move is still hitting you, like when you're frozen from falcon's knee of justice. Hitstun is after you've been hit, but before you can do anything. Or maybe it's vice-versa.
In any case, Brawl has less hitstun, but more hitLAG, which you use to SDI.
AlAxe
Smash Journeyman
Ok. I tried this out in training mode and it was somewhat effective. I'm still slightly unclear on how to manipulate the control stick and c-stick to use this most effectively. One problem I was having was that I would break out of the move but then do accidentaly do an attack because I was using the cstick. I'm not even sure if the cstick helped. Seeing that there have been a lot of different opinions on how to perform smash DI I think we should pool our resources together to come up with a definite best way to perform smash DI. That would eliminate a lot of the confusion on this thread.
infomon
Smash Scientist
My impression from one of the general how-Brawl-works threads (I think it was one about all the different ways to configure the C-stick, and why most of them are useless ), is that C-stick set to Smash does act as a slam of the control-stick in a direction; for example, C-stick down in air will cause you to fastfall along with your Dair, if you're able. I would only assume that this means we can use the C-stick as smash-DI.
I would also guess that smashing the control stick left, and then the c-stick left, inputs two smash-DI's to the left (assuming you're in hitlag). Although if they hit on exactly the same frame, then, would that only count as one? Does anyone know exactly how this works?
I would also be afraid to aggressively use the C-stick to smash-DI because of accidentally attacking... especially if there's a way it might get buffered early; although I don't think that's possible, is it? I don't think you can buffer an airdodge during hitlag, even though you can perform it once you're in hitstun. So my guess is during hitlag you can't buffer an attack either, if you were to maybe come out of hitlag with zero hitstun (that can happen, right??). But obviously hitting c-stick the moment you're free will cause an undesirable attack.
Geez, now I'm getting all very confused about how Brawl works... I'ma go experiment in training mode.........
), is that C-stick set to Smash does act as a slam of the control-stick in a direction; for example, C-stick down in air will cause you to fastfall along with your Dair, if you're able. I would only assume that this means we can use the C-stick as smash-DI.I would also guess that smashing the control stick left, and then the c-stick left, inputs two smash-DI's to the left (assuming you're in hitlag). Although if they hit on exactly the same frame, then, would that only count as one? Does anyone know exactly how this works?
I would also be afraid to aggressively use the C-stick to smash-DI because of accidentally attacking... especially if there's a way it might get buffered early; although I don't think that's possible, is it? I don't think you can buffer an airdodge during hitlag, even though you can perform it once you're in hitstun. So my guess is during hitlag you can't buffer an attack either, if you were to maybe come out of hitlag with zero hitstun (that can happen, right??). But obviously hitting c-stick the moment you're free will cause an undesirable attack.
Geez, now I'm getting all very confused about how Brawl works... I'ma go experiment in training mode.........
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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Hitting on the same frame makes them only count as one, yes.
Hitting the c-stick is to just like hitting a direction on the control stick and A. This is why holding Z when you hit with the c-stick causes you to charge the smash; since Z acts as an attack button, it is "holding" the charge.
Hitting the c-stick is to just like hitting a direction on the control stick and A. This is why holding Z when you hit with the c-stick causes you to charge the smash; since Z acts as an attack button, it is "holding" the charge.
I think the control stick needs to be in neutral for you to SDI with the c-stick.My impression from one of the general how-Brawl-works threads (I think it was one about all the different ways to configure the C-stick, and why most of them are useless
I would also guess that smashing the control stick left, and then the c-stick left, inputs two smash-DI's to the left (assuming you're in hitlag). Although if they hit on exactly the same frame, then, would that only count as one? Does anyone know exactly how this works?
I would also be afraid to aggressively use the C-stick to smash-DI because of accidentally attacking... especially if there's a way it might get buffered early; although I don't think that's possible, is it? I don't think you can buffer an airdodge during hitlag, even though you can perform it once you're in hitstun. So my guess is during hitlag you can't buffer an attack either, if you were to maybe come out of hitlag with zero hitstun (that can happen, right??). But obviously hitting c-stick the moment you're free will cause an undesirable attack.
Geez, now I'm getting all very confused about how Brawl works... I'ma go experiment in training mode.........
J4pu
Smash Champion
can one of you guys who actually understands what's going on give a complete explanation in a VERY noob friendly manner? especially on this quarter circle DI thing that I'm having such a hard time understanding.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
anybody, correct me if I'm off on anything
Smash DI is when you smash the control stick (or the c-stick apparently, just not at the exact same time). When you do this your character fumps in that direction as opposed to normal DI where you just counter the direction of the attack and hold it for a more steady influence. Smash DI is more sporatic and more controlable, but is mainly used (at least for me) in lengthy multi hits like zelda's usmash or link's usmash because i have **** reaction times necesary to get out of something like MK's fair.
--i could probably dumb it down A LOT if you need me to
unsure about this so this is probably going to be quoted for being wrong >_>
ThrillCkr419
Smash Rookie
I play with Pikachu a lot and these are some of the ones noticed(I don’t think they were all mentioned):
Pikachu
Jab
Dash attack (I have had people trap me in 2-3 of these at low percents example: Bowser)
Dtilt
Utilt
Dsmash
Usmash
Fair
Bair
Dair
Uair
Down B
Up B
If you need an explanation about why I think these are multi hit just tell me. I know some were repeated but I didn’t want to miss any.
Overswarm, is there any way you can compile them into one post so we can check to see if we are missing any?
Pikachu
Jab
Dash attack (I have had people trap me in 2-3 of these at low percents example: Bowser)
Dtilt
Utilt
Dsmash
Usmash
Fair
Bair
Dair
Uair
Down B
Up B
If you need an explanation about why I think these are multi hit just tell me. I know some were repeated but I didn’t want to miss any.
Overswarm, is there any way you can compile them into one post so we can check to see if we are missing any?
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
uair, thunder, QA, dash, usmash, dair are NOT multi hits....
btw, welcome to the boards
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
only thing i can think of is up or up right, most marths go for the green (down) end of the combo, so if you can SDI above that, then you can punish him a little.
does the link in your sig have a geass?
ThrillCkr419
Smash Rookie
Look at what overswarm said:
Did you notice the part where he mentions metaknight's uair and dtilt? Thats what uair, thunder, QA, dash, usmash, dair were like.
Just so I'm clear multi hit would mean more than 1, right? Because some
of these were double hits.
Here are the explanations (keep in mind I tested all of these on bowser at 0%):
uair- very similar to the way metaknight's works, if your opponent is in the air you can get a few hits in
thunder- I was in between the blue sparks pikachu gives off and the bolt and got hit twice
QA- I spaced it so that the first ended right near bowser then went straight down(i got 2 hits). I also went across him and back, but i'm not sure if it counts.
dash- if you use your dash attack then follow up with another one as fast as you can you can usually get 2-3 hits in from 0%(because you hit them when they fall down
usmash- walk right up to bowser and keep hitting up C you will get multiple hit in(he sort of bounces)
dair- this one was tricky but i'm still pretty it is a multi hit. there are two attacks with this: the part in the air I think it did 12 or 16 %(not sure), and the part when it hits the ground it does 4% I think (if you land on the ground next to somebody with this it will give them 4 damage). So, the way to get the multi hit is this: you jump towards them and use the dair (1st hit) then land close to them so they get the 4 damage (2nd hit).
I thought if the move could do more than 1 hit to any character at any precent it would count. If that isn't what Overswarm was looking for maybe somebody could explain to me what he meant.
J4pu
Smash Champion
um thrill, Thunder is never a combo move, it has startup lag which stops it from ending combos and ending lag as well as a decent knockback that keeps it from starting them.
EDIT- After reading you thunder reasoning I'm just gunna say that i guess you're right but chances are it isn't a big deal since the double hit range is small, but i guess still worth mentioning so ignore the non-edited part
EDIT- After reading you thunder reasoning I'm just gunna say that i guess you're right but chances are it isn't a big deal since the double hit range is small, but i guess still worth mentioning so ignore the non-edited part
Mighty_mo76
Smash Apprentice
Overswarm, this is your mother speaking.
Are you slacking again? This project IS a good idea (not WAS).
Finish what you started young man. If you need help with vids etc, say so.
Dinners ready. Don't forget to clean your room.
Srzly, lets do this. Tell me what you need and I'll see
if I can organize some of my servants to do it.
(This isn't a power play. Your thread, your reules, but if you don't do somethin, this will die. ^_^)
Are you slacking again? This project IS a good idea (not WAS).
Finish what you started young man. If you need help with vids etc, say so.
Dinners ready. Don't forget to clean your room.
Srzly, lets do this. Tell me what you need and I'll see
if I can organize some of my servants to do it.
(This isn't a power play. Your thread, your reules, but if you don't do somethin, this will die. ^_^)
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I'd like to work on this, but I rarely have time. You guys don't really need me for it anyways... record videos yourselves and you can get it! I can only get it when I hvae time and someone willing to help me, both of which are in short supply.
J4pu
Smash Champion
Quarter circle DI is always best for Smash DI occasions.
JonBeBonanza
Smash Lord
I love DI. DI'ing ness back throw is fun... especially when they expect it to kill.
You can also DI pit's and diddy kongs fsmashes.. i have vids were i do this, if anyone wants to upload them.
You can also DI pit's and diddy kongs fsmashes.. i have vids were i do this, if anyone wants to upload them.
Mighty_mo76
Smash Apprentice
Yezzir. I feel you FOR SURE! time and resources are so limited.I'd like to work on this, but I rarely have time. You guys don't really need me for it anyways... record videos yourselves and you can get it! I can only get it when I hvae time and someone willing to help me, both of which are in short supply.
I hate my life too (in that respect) I will see what I can do. (school comes first)
Trying to upload stuff to youtube, but I have a new system (dvd rec) going on and I haven't figured out the quirks.
Cool. I just wanted to bump this thread.
try to use it to get behind his blade dance depending on where you're hit.
Mith_
Smash Champion
I can't believe I just read all 13 pages of this.
But, I can't complain. It's helped a lot. Hopefully I won't get KO'ed at 80% anymore by attacks I can DI out of!
But, I can't complain. It's helped a lot. Hopefully I won't get KO'ed at 80% anymore by attacks I can DI out of!
J4pu
Smash Champion
there's only 10 pages?
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
Great idea Overswarm. I appreciate your ideals and enthusiasm towards this type of thing and getting everyone "good". Too often are there players that play the game with the simplest thing holding them back from competiting at a high level and often they feel they can't catch up. It's people with your mindset on this that get the masses of players to that next level so everyone can have a little more fun.
Kudos.
Also, sad about the time thing, so true. Sadly I'm unable to help but I would if I coule. Maybe one day something like this will happen for the better. Good to see the effort though
Kudos.
Also, sad about the time thing, so true. Sadly I'm unable to help but I would if I coule. Maybe one day something like this will happen for the better. Good to see the effort though
Buuman
Smash Ace
lmao, no? Wtf are u on? xD
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Thunderstomping is an attack chain. There's a difference.
lavagolem123
Smash Journeyman
Tagging this for later when I get out of school. Perhaps you can enlighten us about more tidbits in the future.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
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This is true. However... if you're that close it is such a rarity that I didn't count it. That's like saying you can DI out of D3's dair if you are above him and get hit with only a tiny part of it; it's kind of a 'duh' thing that is really rare.
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