Overswarm's get everyone better really freaking fast project

[Magus420]

Thaaaaaaaaaat's it. If you hold down, you just fly horizontally. That's about it.

It may be possible to tech the ground (stopping ALL momentum instead of sliding), but we're not sure how. I have done it a few times, once on video.

I would say you can tech the ground if the angle of knockback of the attack with your DI is low enough to send you into it. Like say you're on a ground slope that's 25 degrees above horizontal and the hit's trajectory with DI sends 20 degrees above horizontal you would be sent into the ground and could tech if it's strong enough to put you in a tumble.

 

[3GOD]

When you're hit, you go into hitlag. During hitlag, any input you have is registered and changes your trajectory (NOT DISTANCE). When you hit the stick in a direction from the neutral position, this creates what we call smash DI, or SDI for short.

I'm not so sure about this, but I believe you can SDI as long as you change the control stick position. In other words, if you are holding up before the attack connects, and smash right during the hitlag, I'm pretty sure you will SDI right. But if you just continue holding up, you will not SDI upward.

This is why people say to use "quarter-circle DI" sometimes since they are inputting multiple SDI during the hitlag by moving the stick to different positions (but not returning to neutral between each position). However, I'm really not sure if this is accurate even for Melee (my action replay doesn't work unless I spend about 10 minutes resetting my GCN, or I'd test it myself) much less for Brawl. Do we really have to return to neutral to do multiple SDI or just change the control stick position?

 

[toasty]

Toasty, I play Metaknight as well and I often, when hitting with the weaker parts of the up+b, get "no knockback" on my opponent. Their DI is not a factor.

I see

Try to get a video or at least a detailed description of how it is happening and a way for other people to emulate your tests.

is this directed at me? and if so, you know I'm talking about Melee right?

 

[Jekyll]

I'm not so sure about this, but I believe you can SDI as long as you change the control stick position.

I'm pretty certain that's the case as well. if you go into training mode with Zelda and anyone, set it to 1/4 speed and get hit by her Up-Smash, you can just move the Analog Stick in circles on the last hit of the move and notice that your character does the same(High % may be required for this...I can't remember).

Speaking of Zelda's Up-Smash, OS if you could skip to that and/or the Mach Tornado I would gladly have your Man-Babies.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm gonna do another one when my little brother is willing to help me record ^_^

 

[DanGR]

this looks like a website advertising scheme...how bout you post it in this thread so we don't have to search that website you linked?

 

[Overswarm]

How about I just put it on my website like I did with all my Melee and Halo 2 stuff when I feel like it and you be quiet because I can do what I please?

If for some reason you have a new website phobia, you can just use my youtube account... but websites are generally a bit cleaner.

 

[DanGR]

just wonderin dude. You don't have to go all MK on me.

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Website phobia >.>

 

[Crizthakidd]

well i learned smash di a lot better. maybe u can tell us about escaping certain chaingrabs. when i use ddd if i buffer dashes and grabs and do sliding or dashing shield grabs even oppoenets like marth pit and sonic cant get away.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

This is a good idea Overswarm. It's nice to see people getting this kind of info together to help improve the metagame rather than complaining about it.

Even though you can smash DI out of many multi-hit moves, it doesn't in any way make them completely useless to attempt. A lot of jabs for example can only be escaped if the first hit is smash DI'd, which isn't something a human player can do consistently.

Keep up the great work.

 

[1nconspikuous]

bump. =) i'd like to see more of this thread pls!

 

[Overswarm]

I've got some new footage captured, but am working on an actual video about DI at the moment. I have the video, just need to put it together.

 

[Believer]

Great idea.

Zamus' up tilt and up B are also multihit

 

[JonBeBonanza]

i'm still having a hard time differentiating between Di and SDI. I went to training mode with a pikachu and a random character. I put the cpu damage to 999% and set him to human control. With the help of my trusty right toe, i down smashed with pika and and DI'd up out of it and flew a little of the stage, but didn't die, i still recovered(keep in mind i was at 999). All i did was move the control stick up. So where exactly does the c-stick take part in SDI, and double sticking?

 

[Mighty_mo76]

c'mon guys, this question has been answered many times.

Overswarm, allow me to humbly apply my limited knowledge to yo'r gloruios thread.
please do not smite me with your Godly wrath.
I'm not worthy...not worthy...*bows and worships*

guys, go to Scotu's guide on the physics of attacks:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155409

it xplains DI, SDI, ASDI (which is no longer in brawl) hitstun, etc...

all hail Overswarm *bows and worships*
:uzi: :rocket: :ouch: :smiliegor

 

[Patsie]

Don't let this die =/

 

[Tokerella]

Overswarm, allow me to humbly apply my limited knowledge to yo'r gloruios thread.
please do not smite me with your Godly wrath.
I'm not worthy...not worthy...*bows and worships*

all hail Overswarm *bows and worships*

boy i bet you could suck a golf ball through a garden hose

 

[DanGR]

Here's something to add. It's not DI, but it's a way to keep from getting hit by Zelda's infamous upsmash. Her upsmash's hitbox goes back and forth as she waves her hand back and forth. It does this twice. If you airdodge into the ground during the first hand wave, you can shield while her hand is on the other side of her body and shield it once it comes back. You can then punish. More people need to learn this.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

Here's something to add. It's not DI, but it's a way to keep from getting hit by Zelda's infamous upsmash. Her upsmash's hitbox goes back and forth as she waves her hand back and forth. It does this twice. If you airdodge into the ground during the first hand wave, you can shield while her hand is on the other side of her body and shield it once it comes back. You can then punish. More people need to learn this.

I rather learn which way to DI. I can DI most attacks, pika's down smash, peach's down smash (basically same thing), MK's tornado (depending on the direction) and other attacks. And zelda's is one of the few that i don't know which way to DI out of, i know it can be done cause i've pulled it off with luck, but it's hard when i intent it.

And from my experiences it doesn't go back and forth all the way, it also goes up and down. Yeah, double trouble.

 

[DanGR]

It does go back and forth. Watch at 2:28 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw9DOSMoRZ0

 

[Overswarm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttJLmAT5PU


This isn't dead. I just have a lot of stuff I'm doing at the same time and my little brother isn't always available to help me record (plus he doesn't like it).

This'll get updates, slowly but surely.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

How do you DI's ROBs down smash? Peach's, pika's (down smash) are extremely easy to get out of, i'm still working on Zeldas (up smash) and ROB's down smash, how do you SDI those?

 

[Overswarm]

I'll get vids as I get 'em

But just hold up for ROB's d-smash.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

I'll get vids as I get 'em

But just hold up for ROB's d-smash.

It's up? I would assume it's up, just never really tested it out. See cause i've done it with pika and peach's Dsmash. What i do is i put myself at 999% and have a friend or my big toe down smash me and i live, i don't mean that i'm not sent flying off the screen, i just get out of it, that IS SDI, or DI?

And have you done any experimenting with Zeldas attacks? I've DI'd some of them by pure luck, so i know it's at least possible. What about double sticking or whatever it's called? Is that even in brawl?

 

[J4pu]

^x4 @ the youtube video:
can someone explain quarter circle DI to me?

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

not sure If anyone said this but it might take some different DI to escape Ike's jab cancel AA AAA.

 

[Overswarm]

^x4 @ the youtube video:
can someone explain quarter circle DI to me?

One the first frame, you input smash DI. On all others, it reads "normal" DI. However, the longer you hold a direction during hitlag doesn't help you, so you only need to be holding the direction on the last frame.

But hitlag lasts longer than one frame; that means you can rotate the control stick and get multiple inputs of DI, moving you rapidly in one direction; this is why you can move behind D3 during the neutral A combo so easily in this manner.

 

[okiyama]

If it hasn't been said:
For Pikachu's Down-smash you must smash DI upwards, and then you will pop out of it. A good Pikachu(Anther) will follow oyu out of it and upshamsh you in which case you simply must normal DI left or right and then run.

Also, I noticed the whole "in the head metagame" thing pretty early on also. Like if I was at a tournament with old veterans they would I would just be playing and afterwards I could ask them for any random piece of advice and rather than say something stupid like "don't get hit/grabbed" or "i dunno what you did wrong" They would almost always answer with a specific piece of the metagame that I needed to improve on.
Much like after our match when you told me how to edge guard with Wario.

 

[Jekyll]

I rather learn which way to DI. I can DI most attacks, pika's down smash, peach's down smash (basically same thing), MK's tornado (depending on the direction) and other attacks. And zelda's is one of the few that i don't know which way to DI out of, i know it can be done cause i've pulled it off with luck, but it's hard when i intent it.

And from my experiences it doesn't go back and forth all the way, it also goes up and down. Yeah, double trouble.

The following is the result of cumulative hours in 1/4 speed experimenting with the effects of SDI, QuarterCircle DI and CrazyAss DI on attacks with "particle type hitboxes"...but it could still be wrong:

Personally, I think that Zelda's Upsmash isn't DIable in the sense that there's a surefire way to DI out of it. I think the same goes for Metaknight's tornado. In the case of the Mach Tornado, I find that I can escape from it at the same level of difficulty if I don't DI as if I do try to(And I've tried Everything). However, I did find that lighter characters are randomly kicked out far more often than, say, Ganondorf .

As far as Zelda's UpSmash goes, I've only tried figuring out the DI with heavier characters(Ganon), and I found that it's just impossible. Even though there's a definite break before she brings her hand back to its starting position, The fact that you can't DI these minute particle hitboxes AND the fact that they have crazy hitstun for how weak they are individually just makes it impossible to escape.

Zelda's F-Smash on the other hand, can be DIed. However, the direction that you DI depends on how far away from her you are. If you're really close, try to SDI up and towards her and QuarterCircle in that direction. If you're farther away, do the opposite(up and away from her).

I'll buy a cheeseburger for the first person who can consistently DI out of Zelda's UpSmash and put it on the forums.

 

[Overswarm]

Jekyll, I hope you are willing to ship me that cheeseburger.

 

[Jekyll]

I'll see you at Smash and Coffee. For you, I'll even make it a DOUBLE cheeseburger, and I will truly be amazed if you pull this off. I'll be even more amazed if the solution applies to G-Dorf, but he doesn't usually have the best of luck.

Score:
Getting Everyone Better: 0
Cheeseburger Motivation: 7

 

[3GOD]

Zelda's F-Smash on the other hand, can be DIed. However, the direction that you DI depends on how far away from her you are. If you're really close, try to SDI up and towards her and QuarterCircle in that direction. If you're farther away, do the opposite(up and away from her).

I'll buy a cheeseburger for the first person who can consistently DI out of Zelda's UpSmash and put it on the forums.

I'll chip in a milkshake to go with that burger. It's much like the mach tornado in the way it traps a person.

Zelda's Fsmash DI is actually also useful for G&W's turtle. If you DI upward or up and left/right, you can often get out of it before the hit box appears as he hits the ground (this is the one with decent knock back). I think the ability to DI out of the turtle will really help against G&W since it's his bread and butter move. If you're not careful though, you will pop out of the move and land on the grounded hit box.

 

[JonBeBonanza]

I'll buy a cheeseburger for the first person who can consistently DI out of Zelda's UpSmash and put it on the forums.

If you're not careful though, you will pop out of the move and land on the grounded hit box.

Yeah DI'ing the turtle is super easy, but yeah its true ending on the grounded hitbox. That thing has crazy knock back.

Ok i play pika alot, and i play against other pikas alot. I can on a 100% base DI out of there dsmash every time. So now whenever i play as pika i don't dsmash cause i assume the other people will get out of it.

Anyways i was playing a friend over wifi. He was ness and i was IC's. We were just messing around. So he back throws me at around 114% or something and i didn't die (mind you ness's back throw). SDI... or weird physics? I know it can kill comfortably around those percentages.

 

[J4pu]

One the first frame, you input smash DI. On all others, it reads "normal" DI. However, the longer you hold a direction during hitlag doesn't help you, so you only need to be holding the direction on the last frame.

But hitlag lasts longer than one frame; that means you can rotate the control stick and get multiple inputs of DI, moving you rapidly in one direction; this is why you can move behind D3 during the neutral A combo so easily in this manner.

Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly, for Smash DI instead of Csticking to the direction you want to go then letting it return to neutral then Csticking to the direction you want to go, then neutral, etc.; you can just rotate around the outer region in the general direction you want to go rather than having to return to neutral in order to be allowed another input? (for example if I was trying to get out to the top right I would rotate the Cstick from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock back to 12 o'clock etc.?)
Basically all you have to do for smash DI to work is have the Cstick moving?

If I'm way off please try to explain it in a more noob friendly way.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Guys...give me a cheeseburger. I can smash DI Zelda's fsmash pretty consistantly. You just smash up near the end of the attack (before the final hit) and you just "tumble" out.

Now upsmash...if you DI that consistantly, then you deserve a burger.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'll chip in a milkshake to go with that burger. It's much like the mach tornado in the way it traps a person.

Zelda's Fsmash DI is actually also useful for G&W's turtle. If you DI upward or up and left/right, you can often get out of it before the hit box appears as he hits the ground (this is the one with decent knock back). I think the ability to DI out of the turtle will really help against G&W since it's his bread and butter move. If you're not careful though, you will pop out of the move and land on the grounded hit box.

It's not necessarily getting hit by the B-air that makes it so dangerous. It's what it does to your shield and what happens when you try to punish it on defense. Most of the time you can't. Even if people start SDIing it consistently, I still think it's going to be really threatening mainly because defensive options don't work on it.

Also, you forget that G&W has a whole ton of other threatening aerials. I think his N-air is harder to SDI out of, or at least SDIing out of it doesn't help you punish it (I think you probably need to SDI up, I haven't tested this yet). His F-air can be fullhop autocanceled. His D-air is also fairly hard to punish on block. G&W's B-air is really nice, but it's not the only reason why he's so amazingly dangerous.

It can be really hard to punish his B-air if he spaces it at the tip or does retreating B-airs. Mainly you want to focus on SDIing it if he goes in deep. You probably will want to drop your shield then and take the hit.

 

[3GOD]

It's not necessarily getting hit by the B-air that makes it so dangerous. It's what it does to your shield and what happens when you try to punish it on defense. Most of the time you can't. Even if people start SDIing it consistently, I still think it's going to be really threatening mainly because defensive options don't work on it.

Also, you forget that G&W has a whole ton of other threatening aerials. I think his N-air is harder to SDI out of, or at least SDIing out of it doesn't help you punish it (I think you probably need to SDI up, I haven't tested this yet). His F-air can be fullhop autocanceled. His D-air is also fairly hard to punish on block. G&W's B-air is really nice, but it's not the only reason why he's so amazingly dangerous.

It can be really hard to punish his B-air if he spaces it at the tip or does retreating B-airs. Mainly you want to focus on SDIing it if he goes in deep. You probably will want to drop your shield then and take the hit.

I agree that the Bair eating shields and being nigh impossible to punish when you do shield it are the properties that make it so good. I'm suggesting that instead of shielding it (since it is usually somewhat predictable), the new counter tactic might become to smash DI out of it and then punish. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure if it's a reasonable counter method, but it's definitely worth investigating.

I didn't forget anything about G&W...just didn't mention the other good aerials because I haven't played around with using smash DI to get out of those attacks (and this thread is about smash DI). Certainly he has plenty of good moves other than the Bair, but if we can take away the effectiveness of Bair, he will have one less amazing tool in his arsenal.

 

[mugwhump]

This is a good thread and Overswarm is a good person

Question: to get out of meatknight's fair/bair, do I need to SDI the first hit? Or the second hit? Can I just ASDI?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Guys...give me a cheeseburger. I can smash DI Zelda's fsmash pretty consistantly. You just smash up near the end of the attack (before the final hit) and you just "tumble" out.

Now upsmash...if you DI that consistantly, then you deserve a burger.

Nah, he only offered the cheeseburger for up-smash.