Other communities and FOX & U-smashing the Ledge :D

[718_ROOKI3]

Hey guys, i just wanted to drop by and let all of you know what the other boards are discussing in terms of our character. These are numbers the other character communities put up about FOX and as you can see alot of communities didnt even speak on our character yet and honestly i disagree with alot of these match up numbers. This is just a wake up call to those who care about this kinda stuff. so here you go...

Advantage-
C. Falcon 40-60
Donkey Kong 45-55
Ganon 30-70
Sonic 40-60
Toon Link 45-55

Even-
Bowser 50-50
King D3 50-50
Lucario 50-50
ROB 50-50
Fox Ditto
Yoshi 50-50

Disadvantage-
Falco 55-45
Game&Watch 65-35
Kirby 65-35
Lucas 60-40
Marth 60-40
Meta Knight 65-35
Ness 60-40
Olimar 60-40
Peach 55-45
Pikachu 70-30
Sheik 80-20
Wario 65-35
Wolf 55-45

Not Discussed-
Diddy
Ice Climbers
Ike
Jiggz
Link
Luigi
Mario
Pit
Poke T
Samus
Snake
Zelda
Zero Suit

Ive been around these fox threads for a long time and realized that no one mention Fox having the ability to U-smash characters when they are holding the ledge. So i just finished testing for the past 2 hours and this is what i got.

The whole point in knowing we can do this is because you can't run and Dsmash the ledge, you can't run and Fsmash the ledge. But you can obviously run and Usmash it. Fox is incredibly fast and his speed should always be taken advantage of.

Characters that can be U-smashed when holding the ledge and the difficulty on landing the U-smash.

Dashing, Walking, and Standing U-smash do have a slightly different travel on the hitbox and in result certain characters can only be hit by the dashing U-smash.

EASY
*Dashing, Walking, or Standing U-smash will hit them*
Donkey Kong
Luigi
Meta Knight
Charizard
Yoshi
Ness
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Lucas

Mid Difficulty
*Mostly or only Dashing U-smash will hit them*
Mario
Pikachu
Game & Watch
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Ice Climbers

Hard
*Damm near frame perfect Dashing U-smash will only hit them*
DDD
Lucario
Bowser

The characters that cannot be U-smashed no matter what.

C Falcon, Diddy, Falco, Fox, Ganon, Ike, Kirby, Link, Marth, Peach, Pit, ROB, Samus, Sheik, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Wario, Wolf, Zelda, ZSS

Yes, I should throw all this in another thread but I'd want to make sure you guys are reading up on this and this only. I think its really important. Also, if my list of "characters that can't be U-smashed" is slightly off (which I doubt) feel free to let me know which of those characters you was able to land a U-smash on when ALL THEY WERE DOING WAS HOLDING THE LEDGE.

 

[stingers]

do you disagree with the shiek numbers

 

[718_ROOKI3]

do you disagree with the shiek numbers

Na, thats why i picked up a secondary. I think even without the Ftilt, Sheik can still beat up Fox.

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

wierd how the ZSS boards havnt discussed us when they have the huge lock.

 

[Toronto Joe]

wario boards are smoking something fierce..

 

[Nefarious B]

Most of us agree it's around even against Fox. The 0-death isn't really a factor, you shouldn't get hit by a dsmash unless you're dumb or mess up. So obviously if we can land that it'd be 70-30 or worse, but we're not really expecting to, and they are pretty well matched if that's not in consideration.

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Yea guys i just had time on my hands so i went to each community and searched for the most recent match up discussion on us or if there ever was one to begin with and those are the numbers all the other communities had on us. and yes the wario boards are smoking something wild.

 

[Zephil]

lol at lucas and ness having the advantage... also I know that Wario´s matchup is tough but that rating is too wrong

 

[718_ROOKI3]

lol at lucas and ness having the advantage... also I know that Wario´s matchup is tough but that rating is too wrong

Wario is easy to me. IDK. His aerial movement with those cross-ups and air-dodges make me laugh

 

[Jenkins]

i was playing green ace, the best yoshi in brawl, he says fox ***** yoshi

 

[718_ROOKI3]

i was playing green ace, the best yoshi in brawl, he says fox ***** yoshi

Fox does good against him, ****? i doubt it. Dont fight them on BF, that's for sure. Yoshi's love that stage. (i am pretty good on plats tho )

 

[Curaga]

Dodge egg, Shine the Yoshi.. no more jumps..

While many Yoshi's will do a great job recovering, all it takes it one good Down-B and there goes a stock. =/

I'd think it'd be hard to fight Fox as a Yoshi.

Just a thought

 

[718_ROOKI3]

Dodge egg, Shine the Yoshi.. no more jumps..

While many Yoshi's will do a great job recovering, all it takes it one good Down-B and there goes a stock. =/

I'd think it'd be hard to fight Fox as a Yoshi.

Just a thought

Yea your right, i actually have done this before.

 

[DarkAura]

however yoshi mains i face are crazy good of spacing their jump so i can only shine SA frames.

they are aware of what can harm them unfortunately i think you would be better off Dsmashing them at the ledge

 

[SnowballBob33]

Don't underestimate lucas. They do have the advantage. Nair *****, psi magnet > fox camping, fsmash kills early, bstick pkfire = hard to punish.

Ness is about even though.

Those G&W and wario ones must be very old.

good **** on finding people who got fat heads and get em kicked while they rest on the ledge

 

[718_ROOKI3]

good **** on finding people who got fat heads and get em kicked while they rest on the ledge

Edited..........

 

[SnowballBob33]

ummm... wut? i was serious
i thought when if you could usmash some1 their head had to be above the ledge

 

[DarkAura]

rookie has betrayed us... pfft pikachu

 

[718_ROOKI3]

ummm... wut? i was serious
i thought when if you could usmash some1 their head had to be above the ledge

OHH yoo Snow my bad bro, and umm no there head doesn't have to be above the ledge, what I discovered is actually pretty broken. I was practicing with Wes yesterday and he played Lucario, his damage was at 145% and when I ran to the ledge and U Smashed the result was him getting stage spiked under FD by my U smash. That's BROKEN. So yea take advantage of this dude and do a lil' testing so you can really understand how to catch someone by surprise. :D its soooooo good

rookie has betrayed us... pfft pikachu

LMFAO towards D. Aura :D you know I wouldn't do you guys dirty like that. I don't play Pikachu at all. Seriously, I don't. :D I just think Pikachu is cool and considering I don't use Fox vs Pikachu, I don't really have a hate towards the character :D

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

o.o

good up-smash info,

now if you could time this with the few or so frames you have when they do an action on the ledge...

 

[C8T]

718_Rookie ive seen u play pikas on utube b4. Do u agree with 70-30 in pikas advantage?

 

[718_ROOKI3]

718_Rookie ive seen u play pikas on utube b4. Do u agree with 70-30 in pikas advantage?

Yea dude it's a 70-30. Honestly without that CG i used to think Pika would still **** Fox but in reality that's False. Ive beaten Pikachu's in tourny and some i've *****. But that's when i only mained Fox and those Pikas weren't amazing, so them grabbing me was either them not wanting to do it or them failing at it. But the result of those matches i had in tourny was straight domination. Fox rips pikachu a new one without the CG. I 2nd ROB and Toon Link tho to fight against Pikachu now.

 

[DarkAura]

still even with the CG... we get out at 90% right? still, not that bad... DI the upsmash it can't kill your if you DI away and MC

also, hit the WTF!? button guys, you know that button lucarios hit at 200%? or pichu mains hit... always?

seriously with lucario iv lived up to 200% a lot just because everyone get's caught up in one thing after 100%... spamming kill moves

If it's a bad pikachu seriously they are uber predictable(if they know what they're doing i can't help you no pika iv fought knows what they're doing) not only can you punish next to every missed grab cause it's all they're gonna be going for, they're gonna continuously spam kill move's giving you some punishing time.


Heres basically how i play pikachu in 5 steps

Run the **** away
Plank like meta knight on steroids
use crazy *** ninja mindgames from another planet
run the **** away
run the **** away

 

[718_ROOKI3]

still even with the CG... we get out at 90% right? still, not that bad... DI the upsmash it can't kill your if you DI away and MC

also, hit the WTF!? button guys, you know that button lucarios hit at 200%? or pichu mains hit... always?

seriously with lucario iv lived up to 200% a lot just because everyone get's caught up in one thing after 100%... spamming kill moves

If it's a bad pikachu seriously they are uber predictable(if they know what they're doing i can't help you no pika iv fought knows what they're doing) not only can you punish next to every missed grab cause it's all they're gonna be going for, they're gonna continuously spam kill move's giving you some punishing time.


Heres basically how i play pikachu in 5 steps

Run the **** away
Plank like meta knight on steroids
use crazy *** ninja mindgames from another planet
run the **** away
run the **** away

Here's how i fight Pikachu. I pick the really cool looking ROBOT that has my real name (ROB) and just play a real match that makes sense and has ZERO BULLSH*T in it.

But yea if you use Fox, Aura's 5 steps are on point.

But yea guys, i guess we can have this thread as a overall discussion on all match-ups, just a quick understanding of certain match-ups and reasons why the other character boards SEE OR THINK the match-up numbers are concluded to what they are.

 

[C.R.Z]

lol at wario match up

 

[718_ROOKI3]

lol at wario match up

I kno those numbers are just ********

 

[Razmakazi]

peach's is correct!

 

[C8T]

How is it 50/50 vs Bowser? He's too easy to camp. Wario is just wow.

 

[Toronto Joe]

im not sure if this just works with wario,but you can grab them from the ledge also

 

[Cyphus]

i dont think alot of the numbers are what character boards generally think. i personally know us DKs tend to think of it slightly in our favor maybe 55?. Its not a matchup i'm overly farmiliar w/, so i wouldn't be surprised if it was even 55 fox's favor, but iunno. fox is my 2ndary, but here in louisiana, i'm the only DK and the only fox, lol

 

[Spelt]

I also agree that lucas has the advantage against fox.
you're not gonna gimp a lucas very often, so the only viable killing option against him is the fresh usmash.
lucas on the other hand can kill us early, and can out camp us.

 

[C8T]

I also agree that lucas has the advantage against fox.
you're not gonna gimp a lucas very often, so the only viable killing option against him is the fresh usmash.
lucas on the other hand can kill us early, and can out camp us.

But what can lucas do against us that gives him the advantage?

 

[Red Arremer]

Lucas? An advantage on Fox? Hah.

Fox invalidates Lucas' projectile game completely. Of course, this applies to Lucas, too, but eh. Lucas is a light-weight - a fresh USmash would kill him stupidly early, a decayed one is okay, too. Lucas has trouble approaching, he has a horrible airgame (his aerials are more useful near the ground, actually), and his groundgame is pretty bad, too - either it's stupidly slow or stupidly low ranged. Lucas' movement is bad, too, so Fox can run around all day.

One of the best Lucas players in the world, Serpit, is right here in Vienna, so it's not like I don't know stuff about Lucas at all. Seriously, 60:40? How is Lucas shutting down any option other than camping? We still can damage-rack easily and we shut down his camping too.

 

[Spelt]

Lucas is not light weight.
he's in the middle...


oh and lol, lucas' ground game is not bad, at all....
i'd like you to meet jab and ftilt.

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh, he has 2 good moves on the ground? Wow. Amazing. Very appliable everywhere.

Fox has 2 BAD moves on his ground moves - DTilt and Dash Attack.

 

[C8T]

Oh, he has 2 good moves on the ground? Wow. Amazing. Very appliable everywhere.

Fox has 2 BAD moves on his ground moves - DTilt and Dash Attack.

And dash attack at early percentages can combo into u-tilt and then U-Smash which will together result in 40% damage . Also Fox's jab is prob. better then Lucas's

 

[DarkAura]

dtilt and dash attack aren't even bad moves any more they both have good uses

 

[C8T]

Well d-tilt is ok. You can follow it up with many moves (Usmash, nair, dair, ect.) but it has terrible lag.

 

[DarkAura]

not as bad as you would think, and sweetspotted you can follow up with anything, it has an absurd amount of hitstun

since it's fox boards vs me on the down tilt argument im going to just give up and say it's a bad move.

 

[Red Arremer]

lol.
I just was saying bad while meaning "not as useful moves". Seriously, there's not one single move Fox can't utilize somehow.

Saying Lucas' groundgame is good because he has 2 moves that are okay is simply silly.