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Online Brawl Community Doubles #7 - August 8th - Registration is day of event

genus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
17
I am liking this idea, and while I don't have much to contribute I figured I'd at least mention that I intend on entering.

I see a cap on entrants as imperative as well. Otherwhise groups will be horribly bulky. Conceivably we could tack on another day to go through round robins, which would allow us to add more users...but only to a point. Obviously a given user can only play a certain number of matches a night.

In the round robins, maybe we should track by how many stock each player won, in the off chance of a tie. With a tournament like this, do we really want to have a tiebreaker match? It would slow things down considerably.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
I'm really impressed Dnes, I'm definitely looking forward to this. I've read most of the rules, alot more than I had expected. If theres anything we can do to help like coming up with chat ideas or advertisement, you should let us know, this seems like alot for one person to organize.
I have quite a few ideas for chatting. Chatzy is a great choice because it only requires that you know a link and you can pick a username on the spot… such as your mii name. More on this will come up later.

As for advertising, I’ve posted some forums on a couple site… feel free to invite people to this thread if you see them talking about online tournament play. We really should let them come to us if they want to.

Also, is anyone interested in coming up with like a power ranking system?
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=100427&highlight=Ladder+System
-This thread appears to be working quite well on a power ranking/leader board type setup. I would consider looking there before you try to start your own setup.

I see a cap on entrants as imperative as well. Otherwise groups will be horribly bulky. Conceivably we could tack on another day to go through round robins, which would allow us to add more users...but only to a point. Obviously a given user can only play a certain number of matches a night.
Group size and extending the tournaments are two main topics of consideration. My thoughts:
-If we keep the groups small enough for everyone to play their opponents in one evening... there's a nice window of time for organization of the second half of the tournament (the elimination bracket), without the hassle of gathering results on the second day just prior to the start of the elimination bracket starting.
-How big do we let the groups get in size?... well... I think around 20 players is a good number to aim for... maximum.... how about 30. If you say each match takes ten minutes to create/join/finish/find another... then you're looking at 290 minutes or almost a solid 5 hours....... this leads to the important question of what starting time should we plan the tournament for...?

In the round robins, maybe we should track by how many stock each player won, in the off chance of a tie. With a tournament like this, do we really want to have a tiebreaker match? It would slow things down considerably.
genus, tiebreakers are something we definitely want to avoid. My hope is that by keeping the percentage that qualifies to roughly the top one or two per group, the chances of a tie should be very slim. If a group has 20 members I would hope at least 2 members demonstrate superior skills. Even if it's just by a match or two. That's the top 10%. If the group is increased to 25 members that's the top 8%. Worst case scenario if a lot of people are tied with second place... we could just have the top person in each group qualify. I realize people want to qualify... but it should be something that you really earn. The whole point is to quickly work with big numbers. The other idea is to cut off the people who qualify by going down the list of scores till you run across the first tie. This may cause some problems.

The nice thing is that it’s truly possible to run these tournaments every weekend if we really wanted to. I personally am not willing to dedicate every Friday/Saturday to this (plus, I don’t think my gf would want that either) , but ultimately other people can attempt to host similar tournaments if they would like so ultimately every weekend whether you did well in the previous tournament you have something to look forward to. Furthermore, we can have OPENS versus ranked tournaments where the only people allowed to register are those who have already successfully competed and qualified/obtained a certain number of points.

What I really just need is one or two more people who would be interested in helping tally results. Even one person cuts the time roughly in half… with 500 people submitting results… that’s probably 16 groups of 31-32 people per group… it would be nice to have someone help me sort all those wins and losses.
 

THEmSHAKE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
186
Location
Conveniently adjacent to Alabama
The most important part of a working tourny is structure. So far, it looks as if the structure of this tourny is following an easy and logical tract. This means a fun experience. The last major part of this will be to play the game and see what options are available and to make rules accordingly in regards to what is practical.
 

Fake Mofo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
439
Location
Rhode Island Mutha F*cka
3DS FC
0860-3430-0703
this online tourny sounds awsome. i totally agree with all of the rules and regulations. i think that you guys are on the right track and this could turn out to be a very great thing!
 

Dublio

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
576
Location
Jacksonville, NC
I think the spreadsheet makes things a little easier because as long as you stick to it, your matches will go along fine. =)
 

Bowser Smasher

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
55
Location
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Realize that as of right now... it appears you can have no more than 64 friends on your Brawl Friend list. If we have a large enough tournament... expect to be adding 25-30 names to your list to compete against. I would hate for people using their regular account to be forced to delete people from their friends list because they needed to make room for their tournament roster. IF you want, go ahead and delete then re-add them, however I am suggesting that it would make more sense to actually have a separate account....
HA! I won't have a problem with this cause I'm getting my wii on christmas. No full friends list. Yay!

I'll be all over the game, slobbering. Take me at least one hour, then I'm ready. I've wanted to play against many people, and this tournament is a great way to get started.

Great job NES.
 

KirbySSB

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
934
Location
Central Wisconsin
imo it should be a double elim. bracket and thats it. no need to add a billion people to your friends list, and you can run through the tourneys faster :)
 

-Wolfy-

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
2,495
Location
Miss you Ryan
I'm actually a firm supporter of the alternate account thing. It will cut down on the clutter, and it will make it a lot easier to tell who you are supposed to be playing.

A thought: What if instead of just T then your name to show you are in a tournament, what if you just kind of made one to match your pool? So when you put up the spread sheet to show who is in each pool, players from pool A(Marthguy, Boozer, and wtfhax) become Amarthguy, Aboozer, Awtfhax. And similar for pools b,c, so on.

Pro: No confusion in who on your list is in one pools.
Con: More aco****s = more wii codes.

Just brainstorming here...

And I still like the two day, round robin system. More matches = more play. Since this is jsut a for fun tournament, it becomes more of a playing respect kind of thing, so the more people you can victimize, the more respect you'll get.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
imo it should be a double elim. bracket and thats it. no need to add a billion people to your friends list, and you can run through the tourneys faster :)
Well... you'll only be adding about 24 or so names at most. I'm figuring 10 minutes per match... that's FOUR HOURS fo play for everyone if they play all their matches.

I think the spreadsheet makes things a little easier because as long as you stick to it, your matches will go along fine. =)
Well... with the spreadsheet... it leaves people without wii's with no chance of competing. With the option of letting them share a wii with their friend, they can play a much looser structure. So that's the real question.

I'm actually a firm supporter of the alternate account thing. It will cut down on the clutter, and it will make it a lot easier to tell who you are supposed to be playing.

Just brainstorming here...

And I still like the two day, round robin system. More matches = more play. Since this is jsut a for fun tournament, it becomes more of a playing respect kind of thing, so the more people you can victimize, the more respect you'll get.
Well, remember that you have to make a new MII then everytime you make a new account. Do you really want to do that? I would think you could find a solid 30 friends or so to play casually with. Take your tournament username and just remove the people from the last tournament and contact the others via smashboards that you wanted to keep and put them on your casual play one. You can do what you want, but I doubt that there will be a requirement for making a tournament specific name. That was just a suggestion.
 

X-x-Dyce-x-X

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
4,294
Location
Some town in New Jersey Mains: Link, Falco, Ganond
Well, remember that you have to make a new MII then everytime you make a new account. Do you really want to do that? I would think you could find a solid 30 friends or so to play casually with. Take your tournament username and just remove the people from the last tournament and contact the others via smashboards that you wanted to keep and put them on your casual play one. You can do what you want, but I doubt that there will be a requirement for making a tournament specific name. That was just a suggestion.
You can edit your Mii's names. I don't think altering your Smash Tourny Specific Mii's name will change the account. WGWOLVERINE actually had a good idea.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
You can edit your Mii's names. I don't think altering your Smash Tourny Specific Mii's name will change the account. WGWOLVERINE actually had a good idea.
I'm saying have two accounts. One for tournaments... where you add and remove people after each tournament and one that you use if you're casually playing. But you should never have to add more than 40 people over the course of a tournament so maybe even just one account is fine.

i dont understand. this is for when brawl is released?
Yes, read the main post. This is discussing plans for how to go about hosting a large tournament online for Brawl when it is released.
 

SirroMinus1

SiNiStEr MiNiStEr
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
3,502
Location
NEW-YORK-CITY
NNID
Ajarudaru
I'm saying have two accounts. One for tournaments... where you add and remove people after each tournament and one that you use if you're casually playing. But you should never have to add more than 40 people over the course of a tournament so maybe even just one account is fine.



Yes, read the main post. This is discussing plans for how to go about hosting a large tournament online for Brawl when it is released.
o i understand. im in then.
 

-Wolfy-

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 1, 2007
Messages
2,495
Location
Miss you Ryan
I still stand by this, every day I'm getting more and more excited. The quality of the onlnie had me worried, but this is what I've been waiting for. I OFFICIALLY can't wait for Brawl.

It's been unofficial till now.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
I'm taking a C++ course right now in college.
But I'm only fairly adequite at it.

Leave me as a last resort if no one better comes along.
I'm familiar with C++ and a couple other "basic" types of programming... I think it would be cool though if we could get together a template of some sort so that anyone can host these tournaments without "too much" work being required.

Excel type spreadsheets should be a last resort
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
[YOU COMPETE IN THE ROUND ROBIN PLAYING EVERYONE IN YOUR GROUP]

[POST THE FOLLOWING]

1 [this is your GROUP #]
9 [PLACEMENT # in that group]
10 [total WINS]
10 [total LOSSES]


[and then below you put the details of how you played... understand that the win/loss totals may not be correct]

who I beat: .......
who beat me: .....
complaints/comments: ......


[AND YOU ARE DONE WITH THE ROUND ROBIN]


I will then ask two or three people to help me go through (we would each do like every third forum page... starting with 1 2 and 3... and we simply will copy and paste those 4 highlighted values into our own excel spreadsheets going across... they will be sent to me and I will combine them into a massive array of 4 rows X however many collums (total number of players) together and run it through my program.

This program will calculate your maxium potential points. Starting at the top of each group I can check to see if he/she deserves the top spot. Thefore, if the top person is clearly beating everyone else and his/her results are confirmed by ALL THE POSTED DETAILS EVERYONE PROVIDED IN THE FORUMS... I can then move on to the next person in that group or the next group's top person depending on how many per group qualify.

In case your curious, some more details to understand is that your group # infront of your PLACEMENT # will create your unique pin. I wll have a master roster that already keeps track of everyone's so you don't need to worry about someone trying to screw you over by entering an incorrect pin... they will only fail to even attempt to qualify and my program will tell me 2 people have entered the same 2 values. I can then go back to the forums and confirm what your score is.

THe Code so far.... http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~neschwar/Brawl/code.htm




To:THEmSHAKE

... ahhh... the memories... remember when I posted this a while back?
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=117478
.... look where we are now!!!
 

THEmSHAKE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
186
Location
Conveniently adjacent to Alabama
Yep. Its amazing how well this seems to working out. We pulled our ideas together and you put it into an organized logical form. You've also done a great job of expanding the concept of an online tourny to the point to even some negative people, who believe it would never work, may be willing to give it a shot.

Later, we'll need to come up with a plan of the quickest way to disect brawls online options in order to detemine rules. i.e. If there is no item switch for online then theres no need to spend time determining what items would be legal IF having both non item and item tourny was ever desired.

Also, I left you a message concerning some non-brawl related stuff.
 

Kel

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
4,605
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
So if someone loses they can just record it incorrectly, that way they don't get penalized for losing.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
So if someone loses they can just record it incorrectly, that way they don't get penalized for losing.
That is incorrect. You EARN POINTS FOR LOSSES... so lying about your score will only hurt your score. You will gain more points for a win than loss, but 0 for lying about your results. Even if one person causes a contradiction with you, that single game should not hurt your chances of qualifying. Only the top 1 or 2 of each group will probably make it to the next round. Since so few are qualifying... one or two attempts to cheat aren't going to make you qualify. Have fun... meet new people... and find a way to play live tournaments if you're looking to make a name for yourself. Tournaments such as this can only get so much "recognition" for you.

Furthermore... I will not develop any sort of guide or outline to cheating unless it becomes a serious concern. Perhaps, I will require players to be members of smashboards for over a month and create a ban list of members who are failing to grasp the concept of what competition is truly about.

Let me stress that the main goal of this tournament is to organize lots of matches as smoothly as possible so that you can meet lots of fresh players or possibly re-encounter older ones (Later tournaments will be somewhat seeded to keep each group as equal as possible). You can then play with outside of these tournaments. Some people... believe it or not... do not know anyone outside of smashboards to play with. This is a great way for people to interact.
 

X-x-Dyce-x-X

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
4,294
Location
Some town in New Jersey Mains: Link, Falco, Ganond
You know what would help with the cheating situation? If we could send complaints in PM form to directors/moderators/judges/whatever-they're-called about players that didn't play by the rules.

This could be questioned at first, but if you see a certain amount of players complaining about a certain person then you'll know something's up.

But this was also probably thought out as well, wasn't it?

EDIT:
But at this point, I doubt we'll be seeing many people cheating. There's probably such a precaution factor that is made well known already that cheaters will be caught and prosecuted that they won't even try.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
X-x-Dyce-x-X, if you recall, my original thread post had for the longest time a section dedicated strictly for cheaters. I however removed this because I felt it put to much emphasis on the concern of cheating.

First, let's focus on the elimination portion of the tournament since it is crucial for keeping your tournament life going. The simplest solution is to have directors create and invite the other two members to the game. Let's face it... some people might come up with some nasty tricks such as failing to enter their opponents Brawl code and then claiming that their opponent never "joined" their game. A tournament director creating the match (with proper rules) would ensure that many of these problems don't occur. (remember that all qualifiers are instructed to enter any and all director brawl codes to their friends list once they qualify).

The round robin (prior to the elimination bracket) will have many matches going on at once. Ideally... if all registered players are playing and no problems arise... the amount of matches could be equal to exactly half of the total players of the tournament. 10 minutes later... everyone is playing someone else. In the end though, your submitted score can only go lower from false reports. If the director starts with the highest scores from each group... it will become irrelevant what happens to other people. If the highest player has concrete enough results to keep a lead over the second highest player then great. If that player is a potential cheater... then he's going to be the first player the director is looking at since he is claiming to be the "best" in the group.

I have a Q&A that I started a while back. I welcome any questions or concerns that I can add to better explain how this tournament is going to work as well as problems. I will add a link to it from the main post... it will also be a great read for people who don't seem to have the patience to read the main thread post which I have tried my hardest to make as concisely as possible.
 

bigman40

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
3,859
Location
Just another day.
not bad NES. I know that I could most likely help you with the tallying since nothing happens at my college. Yet getting my wii is still a problem I have to clear up (slowly raising money to get it :chuckle:
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
bigman40, you got plenty of time to save up for that Wii, good luck. I appreciate the offer for help and welcome it. Understand, that I as the lead director will possibly compete, but if I do I will only play the round robin portion fo the tournament... regardless of what my score is. If anyone helps me check and confirm scores... they can still play... but they would not work with their own group due to obvious concerns that may arise. We'll get into details about how other people can help as we get much closer to February.
 

Kel

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
4,605
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
I was more along the lines of saying that if you lose, you know you won't gain any points. However, you can sabbotage the person that beat you by recording your match wrong, that way neither of you gain or lose any points.
 

darkNES386

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
1,339
Location
West Lafayette, IN Downers Grove,
And I'm saying YOU GET POINTS FOR LOSING, so it's in your interest to be honest about it. Just not as many points as a win... so lieing gets you no points... losing gets you some points and winning gets you the most points.

If you lie, but everyoen else is being honest... more than likely they will overall get more points than you. You really shouldn't be conerned about this unless you plan on trying to cheat.

EDIT: I guess if you're really concerned, I'll work on some logical strategy to identify troublemakers and remove them. I guess if 5 people all have conflicting results with the same individual... then it would only make sense that this individual is cheating... now I see a problem with people secretly organzing to "overthrow" a good player... so now what are we supposed to do? Let me make this real simple... if you have to cheat... you will probably be made a fool of in the elimination bracket since those players will all be very good... and those matches will be under much tighter observation.... you're playing over 10 matches in a single night with a fresh group of people.... there's no money involved and unless these tournaments get high recognition from the SWF community... you really have nothing more to gain then the pure enjoyment of competition.... so in the words of MR. T.... "I pity the fool" who decides cheating is worth it.
 

HappyBirthday

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
64
Location
NYC
I don't know anything about how Wi-Fi play will be but hopefully the actual Tournament mode of the game will be made into something extremely Wonderful over Wi-fi with records and a good system to show off your skills to the world

Either way i would love to take place in tournaments like this one
 
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