On modified controllers

[nealdt]

That's incorrect, Delphiki. Better equipment in fact is banned in most sports. Examples:

Baseball: bats must be made of wood. Bats cannot be corked. Gloves have to meet certain specifications for size, string lengths, etc. Spikes on cleats cannot be longer than a certain length. Balls have to be certified and supplied by MLB.

Football: helmets, pads, and cleats must meet league specifications. Balls must also meet league specs.

Hockey: sticks have to be a certain length. Puck must be a certain size and material. Goals must be a certain dimension.

Should I go on? The argument that "you choose to use X" is complete bull****. There always rules and players are obliged to stay within those bounds. Football players are not allowed to put metal spikes on their shoulder pads and a baseball player is not allowed to use an aluminum bat, so don't pretend that anything is fair game so long as everyone has access to it.

Your argument about metagame is also crap. What if I hooked a mind-reading machine up to my controller and played the game just by thinking? That doesn't affect the meta game at all; I could pick fox and waveshine all day, but we already know Fox can do this, so it doesn't affect meta game at all.

So don't be silly.

 

[HugS]

Wow neal, this is quite new to me.

I had no idea modded controllers of this kind even existed until I recently saw Kira's controller at a tournament a few days ago.. I didn't try using it, cuz I guess I just didn't think too much of it.

I've been hearing more and more about this recently. I think it's a bit wrong since this "no modding" rule has been in effect for so long that I figured people just didn't even try using them. As for the "pros" using them, I kind of think it's a bit of BS. I really have yet to meet a single pro who uses it, except for ken now i guess? Not that it really makes a difference with him. Haha.

So what I'm trying to say is...that at FIRST I did agree with you neal, then I started thinking...

If manacloud uses modded controllers and still plays the way he does...then I guess they are ok.

Haha, no i'm joking. Modded controllers suck.

 

[sephirothken]

As for the "pros" using them, I kind of think it's a bit of BS. I really have yet to meet a single pro who uses it, except for ken now i guess? Not that it really makes a difference with him. Haha.


Haha, no i'm joking. Modded controllers suck.

lol i don't use a moded controller, I already told you why I win, it's because i moded my brain.

:D

 

[Patooty]

whoa, since when did Ken's title become MODerator?

 

[NintendoKing]

This thread has reached stupid status. No one is gonna win in this "argument", or whatever the hell it is, over "modded controllers". Just shut up already jesus.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

So can you use switched sticks or not >.>

 

[NintendoKing]

There is a difference between replacing and modding. Replacing anything so that it matches default factory design no matter which model of the controller is not considered a mod. Combining different aspects of default controller models should not be considered a mod.

 

[N1c2k3]

I was surprised when Kira 1st told me/showed me his rock a few weeks ago, though everything he told me was supposedly relayed from Mike. I know you said you didn't want any "def of a mod" discussion Neal, and I'm certainly not advocating I know anything outside of what I heard on the subject, but from what I did hear and what I've seen so far in the thread, I believe it should be brought to attention. I'm also not trying to ensue that you (Mike) or anyone else is trying to hide anything. Everyone could already have this information. I just haven't seen it yet, and as I said I believe it deserves mentioning. Apparently Ken's, as well as M2K's and KDJ's sticks (and others I'm sure), as mentioned, are modded so that they're pushed in somehow (not just when you push it in and can pull it back out, it's something different. It also makes no clicking sound when the plastic hits the outside edge. Ken's controller never clicks, apparently), allowing the stick to actually be tilted farther on its axis when pushed full over. The only apparent benefit of this is DI, as it seems it allows your input to actually be registered as farther over than normal, which to me, if in fact it's true, should most definitely be banned. He also said this mod is very common in Japan, and where the idea came from. Again, that's just what I heard. Now, if you look at these individuals; Ken, M2K, the Japanese, and KDJ (though not so much him just from word of mouth and some matches) all have great DI. Coincidence? 99% probably yes, IMO. There's tons of other pros and non pros that have amazing DI. Again, I don't mean to call anyone out, nor am I attempting to ruin anyone's rep. I just used those examples because those were the ones passed to me from what I consider a reliable source. If in the future we find out that this or something very similar is true, then I believe some type of action should take place, though not necessarily against the players. In the beginning, in very least, have all examples of banned mod'ing listed, pretty much as we do now. If it becomes a serious problem, then controller checks might become a reality. But that's way off in the future I'm sure, and I certainly wouldn't want any of that to happen. I don't even know why I put that down. Guess I was just writing what came to my mind at the moment. But either way, I believe some sort of investigation, no matter how minuscule or on what scale, should be conducted, just to gain as much information as possible before any conclusions are made. I'm sure this will never come to the point where it adversely affects the Smash community as a whole, but at the same time, I feel it's something that requires attention at the present time...

 

[SuperRad]

My "source" said that the only people really using them are Manacloud, Ken and KDJ out of the big names. (And I've also heard that KDJ got rid of/is getting rid of his). I've heard specifically that m2k DOES NOT use one.

Also I heard it makes it easier to do stuff like Shiek's Dashdance, although I don't think it matters as much as DI

 

[manacloud1]

ahhahaha

My "source" said that the only people really using them are Manacloud, Ken and KDJ out of the big names. (And I've also heard that KDJ got rid of/is getting rid of his). I've heard specifically that m2k DOES NOT use one.

Also I heard it makes it easier to do stuff like Shiek's Dashdance, although I don't think it matters as much as DI

your all hearing rumors and believing it looks like your sources being probably dsf or kira only love their controllers. Making it easier to dash dance and di sounds ridiculous to me and mentioning korean dj and ken as good di' people they are just good give it up. Banning controllers that you assume have good di is a joke. Why wont both you and nick super rad try to play with one of these controllers and tell me is anything different or is it just in your heads?

 

[SuperRad]

your all hearing rumors and believing it looks like your sources being probably dsf or kira only love their controllers. Making it easier to dash dance and di sounds ridiculous to me and mentioning korean dj and ken as good di' people they are just good give it up. Banning controllers that you assume have good di is a joke. Why wont both you and nick super rad try to play with one of these controllers and tell me is anything different or is it just in your heads?

I'm not sure what your first sentence was trying to say (commas help for clarity, my friend). However:
My sources are partially rumors. I do have one source that I trust very much that has told me that you are doing something to joysticks. What the effects are, who knows. Maybe its a different feel and doesn't help with anything else, but for $100 (which, I've heard is the going price for this modification) I would expect it to be more then just "fixing" a controller.

 

[manacloud1]

lol

I'm not sure what your first sentence was trying to say (commas help for clarity, my friend). However:
My sources are partially rumors. I do have one source that I trust very much that has told me that you are doing something to joysticks. What the effects are, who knows. Maybe its a different feel and doesn't help with anything else, but for $100 (which, I've heard is the going price for this modification) I would expect it to be more then just "fixing" a controller.

rumors are rumors. Maybe i can just make their controller feel good to their liking. So tell me genius how can you mod a controller for the game cube, can you show me online some tutorials. Oh wait there arent any. Stop spreading crap that doesnt exist. People pay me to fix their controllers. Also korean dj and ken win tournaments cause they are good not because of their controllers.

 

[Mew2King]

by what manacloud tells me of the definition of modding, fixing a controller is modding it. At OC2, I was stupid and washed my controller with water (I didn't know it was bad till after the fact), causing it to break at least temporarily. Manacloud took it and gave it back to me the next day and it was how it originally was. That's what Modding is, either changing -OR- fixing a controller, in my case fixing it. So by that definition I used a modded controller, although it was completely unchanged from what it originally was before I put water on it.

 

[SuperRad]

rumors are rumors. Maybe i can just make their controller feel good to their liking. So tell me genius how can you mod a controller for the game cube, can you show me online some tutorials. Oh wait there arent any. Stop spreading crap that doesnt exist. People pay me to fix their controllers.

Hahaha, I think I'm pretty much done here. Just because there are no tutorials doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And what other games would the mod be used for? That's right. None. Melee is the only game on GC worth modding a controller for. And most casual people wouldn't bother modding a controller. And even in the competitive smash community, most people wouldn't be smart enough or just plain wouldn't want to mod their controller, especially if it involves possibly mutilating your controller. How many people are going to cut their joysticks in a feeble attempt to make them the next ken? However, people that are already good are more likely to take the chance that they can get an edge on their opponent.

 

[manacloud1]

lol

Hahaha, I think I'm pretty much done here. Just because there are no tutorials doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And what other games would the mod be used for? That's right. None. Melee is the only game on GC worth modding a controller for. And most casual people wouldn't bother modding a controller. And even in the competitive smash community, most people wouldn't be smart enough or just plain wouldn't want to mod their controller, especially if it involves possibly mutilating your controller. How many people are going to cut their joysticks in a feeble attempt to make them the next ken? However, people that are already good are more likely to take the chance that they can get an edge on their opponent.

okay tell me why dont you cut your controller stick and play with it and tell me if there is a difference lol. The rumors have gottened to your head. One person gets excited and the world follows. If you think i actually mod controllers you are wrong. I only use the term mod because its cool. People pay me to fix their controllers thats all.

 

[SuperRad]

okay tell me why dont you cut your controller stick and play with it and tell me if there is a difference lol. The rumors have gottened to your head. One person gets excited and the world follows.

why don't I?
1) I don't have a triwing screwdriver or one thats the right size for my controller.
2) I'm not going to risk ****ing up my one good controller.
3) This is my last post here unless something changes majorly. I guess it's just rumors, and I have no way to prove other wise

 

[Taco Head]

lol

Can someone fix my controller?

 

[joejoe22802]

So can you still cut off ur rumble? to make it lighter? and rip of the wiring so the eletricity runs through the rest of the controller instead of the rumble + the rest?

 

[N1c2k3]

LoL, all the ppl who are getting their sticks modded are being paid to keep quiet! There's a whole underground world of modding that nobody knows about! Call in the FBI, cancel all future tournaments until further notice! Competative Smash is officially over! No offense Mike, but all the points you've made are pretty much easily refutable, as most have done so far...

1: Even you wouldn't charge 100$ + just to fix a controller. C'mon now. You can buy one for a 1/5 of that price.
2: The point you made earlier that "it's available to anyone" does not make it anymore viable. Just like when Delphiki mentioned the sporting equipment. Neal answered that one, but just to reprase; every type of sport has regulations on what can/can't be used. Most major PC gaming tournies have equipment checks on many of the entrants, or they make them use their equpiment And to the person who mentioned H2 players using stopwatches: That's nothing like actually modding a controller. It's just to remind them when a weapon has spawned. 1st of all it's a completely diff type of game and IMO you can't really compare the two, but even that being the case, it's still not something that directly changes how the game is played through your controller, and so shouldn't even be considered being called a mod.
3: You mentioned Ken and co. I'm just gonna focus on him atm since that's where all the attention seems to be anyway. Obviously he's going to win no matter what controller he uses. However, that is completly mutually exclusive to the argument that it should be allowed. Just cause player A is better than B and is definitely going to win, he gets to use a modded stick to give him even more of an advantage? And what about when it's not a huge skill differrential, when the line of victory is so thin that giving you something like that is all the edge you need? Think of the one person that's bean beating Ken most consistently as of recent, KDJ, and the others who Ken has barely beaten recently.
4: You said, "people come to me for this, I dont do any pressure, im just offering a service. No matter how it is people will do what it takes to get better." That right there is enough for me to question the whole legality of the issue by itself. I'm sure common sense moreso than rumors would automatically put the thought into anyone's head that you're doing more than just "fixing" them. Maybe you just worded it wrong or something, idk. Maybe you should explain exactly what you're talking about, but I don't really care if you do or not. I think you should, if you have nothing to hide, tell everyone exactly what you've done to the controllers that you've fixed. I'm pretty sure that would put most ppl's minds to rest. It's up to you though. I probably won't post in here again unless I feel it's really important, cause I don't want to get involved in a hateful battle, as I love everyone. Hope this gets resolved...

 

[nublet06]

i think people are getting too crazy over this. it is pretty much impossible to lose a match BECAUSE the other person has a tiny tiny tiny easier time pressing his buttons or feeling comfortable with the controller.

IMO....no matter how offensive....or ROFLtactular this seems to anyone. these "mods" are really nothing. the only reason they are called "mods is so that people think it makes you better and will spend their money. if people want to spend their money on confidence....let them do it. paying for this stuff when your controller isnt broken.....is kind of like buying those ***** enlarging pills. its not going to make a difference.

people should stop crying.

 

[Snap]

shady

OK I just read this entire thread and beforehand i had no knowledge of modded controllers.

Neal basically posted that no modding is allowed. He didnt mention any names

then all of a sudden manacloud started getting very defensive.

and then i learned that manacloud fixes controllers.

but he fixes controllers for not so cheap, apparently. like $100?

But he was extremely defensive of his fixing of controllers

which leads me to believe that this thread as aimed toward manacloud's fixing of controllers.

my question to manacloud is, why would you charge $100 to fix someone's controller if they can just buy a new one? is this supposed to be a permanent fix? if not, then why not just spend 20 bucks on a controller.

also, why are you getting so defensive about fixing your controllers? if what you were doing is fine, why is this even an issue.

i have no doubt that ken and kdj and m2k will perform equally well with any random controller (assuming its not broken), so i dont really care about that. what i care about is why is this whole ordeal looking so shady? paying a bunch of money to get a controller fixed, and then going on hyper defensive mode.

 

[DieSuperFly]

LOL 100$ to fix a controller LOLLLL HAHAHAH dangsies >.>

We all know this madness of controllers are going to be banned..........mana just wants to make profit as quick as possible ... ty.... ty...ty...

Heck! i would want one =\ but i wont have one for that long cuz them shiits are going to be banned snifff snifff sniff

 

[TheBOSS]

There is a simple way to fix this issue on modding controllers.

At tournamnets where the "no mod rule" applies, tournament officials should have a cube and a tv set up where they are taking the money and entering the names into the brackets. They should then plug in the participant's controller before taking the money and testing each button and stick. No this wouldn't take a while (2 minutes at most) and yes it is necessary that we start doing this. Because when money is on the line, those who are using controllers which enable short hop mods, L trigger mods, control stick shiit, and whatever else that gives then an advantage, they are STEALING from those who enter the tournaments.

Think of it like poker. People are sitting down at the table with maybe not pocket aces, but an ace up the sleeve each time. If your caught doing that **** in a card game you get ****ed up. Simple as that. If i find that someone is using an "enhanced controller" (because the term mod is now so vauge) at a tourney that i'm in, and they win money at the tourney, were gonna have a big ****ing problem.

I beleive this issue has a solution and it takes very little time to check a controller. We could even check them instead or durring the hour or in which people are playing friendlies (which happens at every tournament ever).

 

[romeo619]

the person can just have the modden controller in his backpack, then take it out during his match

or something like that

 

[Atlus8]

Yeah, anyone can hide an "enhance stick" in their backpack. The only way to stop this cheating is to have tournament host provided controllers and have everyone use them during a tournament match. Then again, the players won't be use to the type of controller provide to them.

 

[TheBOSS]

the person can just have the modden controller in his backpack, then take it out during his match

or something like that

This is true. We should do the controller check at the door then, before they are able to enter the room and plug in.

 

[romeo619]

people can just have it in their car, then switch them. or something

if anyone in the tourney suspects that someones using a modded controller, just have them tell a tourney staff member and they'll check it and if they got one ban em

 

[TheBOSS]

people can just have it in their car, then switch them. or something

if anyone in the tourney suspects that someones using a modded controller, just have them tell a tourney staff member and they'll check it and if they got one ban em

Agreed. We should do a combination of both. Check the controllers when doing the money stuff and putting them into brackets, and also if anyone is suspected of using them then it should be reported. Agreed. This should def. take effect at next tri weekly.

 

[Truegamer#1]

Not trying to be a noob but how can you mod your control...
never herd of it...
what can you do to mod your control...
a cooling system...lol...
but companies do make controlers like that...
so the jokes on me...
please anwser my question...
What can you do to mod your control?

 

[Atlus8]

I was once thinking of opening up one of my controllers and figure out if "control mod" is real or something that was just started. Since I've had a control with a busted stick for awhile I guess I might as well do this....

Does anyone know what kind of screwdriver is needed?????

 

[manacloud1]

hah

i only get defensive because people are accusing these so call modded controllers to make them better. People arent getting paid to shut up as well so i dont know where that came from. People on here are assuming so much if you knew about this a little more then you would shut up. Another thing that strikes me is people are trying to find out what it is. Of course you want to know how so you can do it for yourself and hopefully get better at smash. You want to learn everything possible to this game including the so called " enhancements" you think i do. Its like rofl said people are buying hope. Hopefully the controller will make them better with all that said. This thread should be closed because theres no point in arguing. Also it seems to me your all just trying to figure out why does people pay mana cloud so much for this and why does he charge a lot . I ll answer, both questions for you guys. People pay me because thats my price. I charge some people 5 bucks some 50 and some 100 depending whether i like them or not. Hell i even turn down people who offer me 200 bucks for one alright. Question two why do people pay me to do this well they believe that doing this will make them better. yes and no? its still up to them to be good at this game. Ken doesnt use a modded controller however his controller has broken many times during tournaments so i fix it there for him meaning if the l button isnt working i replace it with other parts so it functions as normal and i use the term mod because it just sounds cool. I am really just fixing peoples controllers.

 

[joejoe22802]

how do u fix .... liek could u fix a loose analog cuz yea i dont think so i dont get how u would. And when u change the l to be loose or tite do u tinker with the springs or just try a bunch of differnt parts till its diff? Anyways i wouldnt mod my controller but ive fixed knives and my japanese one is too **** anyways

 

[Truegamer#1]

where do you get those screws to open the controlers anyway...?
(ebay) or somewhere else...

 

[Snap]

mana i'll pay you $5,000 to give me a modded one.

cause i reallllllly wanna be as good as ken.

 

[Zenith]

i only get defensive because people are accusing these so call modded controllers to make them better. People arent getting paid to shut up as well so i dont know where that came from. People on here are assuming so much if you knew about this a little more then you would shut up. Another thing that strikes me is people are trying to find out what it is. Of course you want to know how so you can do it for yourself and hopefully get better at smash. You want to learn everything possible to this game including the so called " enhancements" you think i do. Its like rofl said people are buying hope. Hopefully the controller will make them better with all that said. This thread should be closed because theres no point in arguing. Also it seems to me your all just trying to figure out why does people pay mana cloud so much for this and why does he charge a lot . I ll answer, both questions for you guys. People pay me because thats my price. I charge some people 5 bucks some 50 and some 100 depending whether i like them or not. Hell i even turn down people who offer me 200 bucks for one alright. Question two why do people pay me to do this well they believe that doing this will make them better. yes and no? its still up to them to be good at this game. Ken doesnt use a modded controller however his controller has broken many times during tournaments so i fix it there for him meaning if the l button isnt working i replace it with other parts so it functions as normal and i use the term mod because it just sounds cool. I am really just fixing peoples controllers.

mana's gettin personal.
but i got mana's back on this 1, I use to take the sticks outta PS2 controllers and put em in my GCN controller. Is this modding, no, its changing.

Mana is stating that you can either spend $25 on a new GCN controller, or fix the old 1. IMO I would fix the old 1.
But does putting better stix and buttons in your controller make it illegal, no.
You just replaced the buttons, you haven't messed w/ the controllers internal functions.
Tap Y/X hard still = full jump
Tap Y/X gently still = short hop

 

[EzynJAY]

she got a light skinned freind look like micheal jackson got a dark skinned freind look like micheal jackson...^^

 

[joejoe22802]

mana's gettin personal.
but i got mana's back on this 1, I use to take the sticks outta PS2 controllers and put em in my GCN controller. Is this modding, no, its changing.

Mana is stating that you can either spend $25 on a new GCN controller, or fix the old 1. IMO I would fix the old 1.
But does putting better stix and buttons in your controller make it illegal, no.
You just replaced the buttons, you haven't messed w/ the controllers internal functions.
Tap Y/X hard still = full jump
Tap Y/X gently still = short hop

but i heard mana takes out the rumble pack and the wiring to the rumble pack that way its lighter. and the electricity doesnt go anywhere and instead more power is focused on the other functions and i heard mana talking about this not from others but still yea i dont see the problem casue i didnt notice a difference when i played with a few modded controllers

 

[TheCatPhysician]

but i heard mana takes out the rumble pack and the wiring to the rumble pack that way its lighter. and the electricity doesnt go anywhere and instead more power is focused on the other functions and i heard mana talking about this not from others but still yea i dont see the problem casue i didnt notice a difference when i played with a few modded controllers

Removing the wiring to the rumble pack makes the power more focused on the other parts? What the heck is that going to do?

OHH, MY L BUTTON HAS MORE POWER I CAN L CANCEL FASTER NOW

If all Mana is doing is switching out bad parts and removing the rumble, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But it seems kind of weird that Neal would make this thread about it, and that people would pay up to $200 for Mana to fix their controllers, if anyone has taken him up on that.

 

[manacloud1]

lol

Removing the wiring to the rumble pack makes the power more focused on the other parts? What the heck is that going to do?

OHH, MY L BUTTON HAS MORE POWER I CAN L CANCEL FASTER NOW

If all Mana is doing is switching out bad parts and removing the rumble, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But it seems kind of weird that Neal would make this thread about it, and that people would pay up to $200 for Mana to fix their controllers, if anyone has taken him up on that.

wtf, 200 bucks, only one person has offered me that so far but i turned him down so far ive been only charging at most 80. Some ones trying to spread rumors or your sources are just wrong.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

k well I just remember nublet saying something about $200 services or something but whatever. If all you're doing is replacing buttons and taking out the rumble pak then there's no problem.