On modified controllers

[SuperRad]

lets say some people start enforcing rules. Its like a witch hunt. Ever heard of the salem witch trials? lets say someone didnt mod a controller and brought in one that looks suspicious. People are going to say hes modding controllers ban him. The entire idea of even enforcing a rule is lame and ridiculous. All that is going to result from this is people who claim ****, like oh its my controllers fault that i lost. You made me change controllers to enter your tournament mine isnt modded etc. If you want more johns , enforce this rule i dont care. However its a waste of time as well for tournament hosts to check every controller and even then you wont stop people from tinkering with their controllers.

if someone gets accused of using a modded controller, then the tournament organizer has every right to open up that controller and check it. if it looks fine, then they go and play. While it is time consuming, it does ensure that no one is breaking the rule. and if one person is found th be falsely accusing a number of people, the TOs can just stop listening to his complaints.

 

[manacloud1]

right

if someone gets accused of using a modded controller, then the tournament organizer has every right to open up that controller and check it. if it looks fine, then they go and play. While it is time consuming, it does ensure that no one is breaking the rule. and if one person is found th be falsely accusing a number of people, the TOs can just stop listening to his complaints.

so according to what your saying what if the tournament organizer opens it up and the guy plays and loses and blames the tournament organizer for ruining his controller? Then what. What if the tournament organizer doesnt know how to put back the controller to its normal position without ruining it? what if the tournament organizer cannot determine between what is really modded and what isnt? what if the tournament organizer has hatred on this guy and just wants to ban him and find some legit way to make him look as if hes cheating.

 

[SuperRad]

so according to what your saying what if the tournament organizer opens it up and the guy plays and loses and blames the tournament organizer for ruining his controller? Then what. What if the tournament organizer doesnt know how to put back the controller to its normal position without ruining it? what if the tournament organizer cannot determine between what is really modded and what isnt? what if the tournament organizer has hatred on this guy and just wants to ban him and find some legit way to make him look as if hes cheating.

So basically what you are saying is that we shouldn't:
A) Have rules
B) Hold tournaments
because bad stuff can happen.




Ya ok.

 

[TheBOSS]

From what i can understand mike, is that your one of the leading factors with "tinkering with controllers". If you stop producing them, then shouldn't that help solve the issue? Idk man, I'm over this topic. It's just starting to get frustrating. One last thing though (a positive note).

The smash community has been recognized for being one of the most friendly and welcoming communities in all competative play. I feel it is extemely important for those who continue to play smash melee and brawl in the future to understand that respecting the rules and abiding by them is a neccesity for this awesome series of gaming to continue to thive at the competative level in which it resides today.

 

[Brookman]

and what if China takes over America, or what if California sinks into the ocean tomorrow, or what if Bush gets assassinated and **** Cheney becomes president, and what if the universe implodes, and what if Manacloud starts making sense?! Even worse, what if he stops ignoring peoples points and actually responds in a coherent fashion?!

 

[manacloud1]

hmm

From what i can understand mike, is that your one of the leading factors with "tinkering with controllers". If you stop producing them, then shouldn't that help solve the issue? Idk man, I'm over this topic. It's just starting to get frustrating. One last thing though (a positive note).

The smash community has been recognized for being one of the most friendly and welcoming communities in all competative play. I feel it is extemely important for those who continue to play smash melee and brawl in the future to understand that respecting the rules and abiding by them is a neccesity for this awesome series of gaming to continue to thive at the competative level in which it resides today.

i agree they should abide by rules. Else i wouldnt enforce rules myself boss. However you must understand that people are assuming too much what I personally do is considered a mod. The entire idea of being able to mod your controller to the point its banable is stupid. You or someone mentioned kish prime being able to invent a short hop, what good is short hop off the ledge? This game requires more mental input then what a controller can do. Also there are more people doing way more worst things then what i am doing boss. Would u blame all the people finding all the glitches in smash to be cheating? What about ice climbers infinite, lots of people say its cheating lots say it isnt. Its debatable.

super rad if you ran tournaments , especially large scale calibur tourneys u would know how difficult it is to do what u expect.

 

[SuperRad]

Mana, that logic there makes more sense then your last post. It seems you have some kind of complex where your first instinct is that everyone is out to get you. I do understand it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to perfectly enforce the modded controller rule, but aslong as its being used I think it should be enforced. If tournament organizers decide that it isn't important then they can chose to drop it. However, every tournament I've seen since I joined smashboards has had a no modded controller rule, and I don't think it should just be a deterrent, if its there it needs to be enforced.

 

[Cort]

I'd like to hear what you have to say about these quotes from a conversation between myself and KoreanDJ.

Cort 28633 (10:35:01 PM): manacloud modifies controllers?
Cort 28633 (10:35:10 PM): he modded your control stick? lol
KoreanDJ111 (10:35:40 PM): I use it from time to time
KoreanDJ111 returned at 10:35:42 PM.
KoreanDJ111 (10:35:46 PM): not all the time
Cort 28633 (10:35:51 PM): what does it do exactly?
KoreanDJ111 (10:35:59 PM): just makes the controller a little different
KoreanDJ111 (10:36:01 PM): nothing too big
Cort 28633 (10:36:11 PM): does it help actually?
KoreanDJ111 (10:37:22 PM): it does and it doesn't
KoreanDJ111 (10:37:25 PM): it's wierd
Cort 28633 (10:37:32 PM): what does it do exactly >_>
KoreanDJ111 (10:37:47 PM): just makes the control stick a bit more responsive
KoreanDJ111 (10:37:51 PM): by cutting the edges
KoreanDJ111 (10:37:54 PM): of the plastic
KoreanDJ111 (10:38:24 PM): less traction
Cort 28633 (10:38:31 PM): interesting
Cort 28633 (10:41:30 PM): what do you think about it?
Cort 28633 (10:41:34 PM): you dont think it's cheating?
KoreanDJ111 is idle at 10:48:38 PM.
KoreanDJ111 is no longer idle at 10:48:47 PM.
KoreanDJ111 (10:48:53 PM): k back
KoreanDJ111 (10:48:57 PM): it doesn't affect much
KoreanDJ111 (10:48:58 PM): of the style
KoreanDJ111 (10:48:59 PM): or gameplay
Cort 28633 (10:49:03 PM): yeah but it does help
Cort 28633 (10:49:08 PM): and give you a slightly unfair advantage
Cort 28633 (10:49:09 PM): at times
KoreanDJ111 (10:49:30 PM): I'm not the one to be talking to this about
KoreanDJ111 (10:49:39 PM): discuss this with manacloud

Entire point being: You modify controllers in a way that gives people even a slight advantage via tampering with the control stick/something about the plastic around it. Anyone can tell you that this is clearly violating "every tournament ever"s rules.

gg?

 

[EzynJAY]

in response to brook or watevers post about mine
i meant it as even though he has one i still beat him lol so him having a mod doesnt make him better than me its not like modding on halo or map hacks on cs i felt some of these controllers some feel better some dont its all personal preference it doesnt make u better but if u like the way the controller feels more now then i see no problem with ppl modding there **** its up to them thats y its byoc ****** ^_^

 

[manacloud1]

cort

I'd like to hear what you have to say about these quotes from a conversation between myself and KoreanDJ.



Entire point being: You modify controllers in a way that gives people even a slight advantage via tampering with the control stick/something about the plastic around it. Anyone can tell you that this is clearly violating "every tournament ever"s rules.

gg?

how about this how about u buy one of my modified controllers and tell me if u are better? You want the truth pay me 60 bucks.

 

[SuperRad]

how about this how about u buy one of my modified controllers and tell me if u are better? You want the truth pay me 60 bucks.

looks like you are supporting Rofl's claim of you just wanting money

 

[Cort]

Thanks for completely ignoring everything I basically had to say.

And "buying a modified controller from manacloud for 60 dollars" is one of the last things on my "to do before I die" list.

The point is, you're advertising people such as your brother and KDJ in an effort for saps to buy your modifications for ridiculous prices, and KDJ clearly stated it made certain things easier to do while using this controller, so therefore yeah... it does make you "better" though not really. This isn't the point.

But, you're just going to completely ignore everything important I have to say and either insult/threaten me/ask me random questions that have nothing to do with what is actually going on...

 

[manacloud1]

no

looks like you are supporting Rofl's claim of you just wanting money

im supporting my own claim, people pay to find out the truth. If cort really wants to find out whats the big hype over these controllers he can easily pay for it. If cort or anyone else were on the streets just hearing about controllers mods and asked me to make them one i wouldnt even if they offered me 100 bucks. Theres a difference when people offer u money for a service you can do.

as for you cort , what koreandj says is just his opinion. If i am advertising koreandj and ken to get saps to buy my controller then why do they choose to do it? is that your problem or is it theirs? I mean this is between me and them and is none of your concern. If the controllers i do make them better is it in their heads or is it really the controller. Have you asked this? Maybe they are better because they believe in themselves.

 

[Nezumi]

They will probably check controllers at tournaments now because Mana went public with his "mod" controllers. He brought this upon himself just by trying to make a few extra bucks.
There's a reason why they make rules like "no modified controllers". It's not how the game was meant to be played. The rules were made to make the game as fair as possible, allowing skill to be the determining factor between winning and losing. Having people out there using controllers that are designed to give them natural advantages that aren't available for everyone.... i mean, it's obvious in so many ways how that goes against how tournaments and smash are meant to be played.


Now that it is out to the public and alot of people know there are controllers out there like that, tournaments should and will probably start to check for it, that's a given.

 

[manacloud1]

well

When i used to go to big yu-gi-oh tournaments the judges used to make us write our whole entire decks down on paper and check our decks/plastics for dots on certain cards etc. to prevent cheating.
It's a long process of course but they will probably check controllers at tournaments now because Mana went public with his "mod" controllers. He brought this upon himself just by trying to make a few extra bucks.
There's a reason why they make rules like "no modified controllers". It's not how the game was meant to be played. The rules were made to make the game as fair as possible, allowing skill to be the determining factor between winning and losing. Having people out there using controllers that are designed to give them natural advantages that aren't available for everyone.... i mean, it's obvious in so many ways how that goes against how tournaments and smash are meant to be played.

I overheard someone say "I've had my controller for a long time and it's worn down, it's easier to use so does that make it a mod?". They knew that what they were saying was bogus. Obviously if you use your controller properly, don't break it open and tamper with it, and play the game like you should then you're not breaking any rules.
As for people who do feel they have to open it up and alter the design of their controller, they should know better.

Now that it is out to the public and alot of people know there are controllers out there like that, tournaments should and will probably start to check for it, that's a given.

Why can't we all play fair?
After all, it's a video game.

i agree with what your saying , though if you think about it how can you say what i do is consider modding? Removing parts from the controller is modding then i dont know what to say. Sometimes less is better. Nintendo's first generation controllers had a metal connector that held the l button with the thing that held the l button pad. Now adays nintendo removed the metal connector is that modding on nintendos part?

 

[EzynJAY]

lol everyone wants to be a popular kid so much drama baby mama drama at that lol

 

[JTB]

I have to go back to another post I made a while back:

Smash drama > Band drama

 

[GoldenGlove]

This thread is epic.

I went to a tournament and there was a guy with a mod that allowed him to plug a PS2 controller into the GC o_O.

 

[Taco Head]

better grab an umbrella

 

[Kanzaki]

GoldenGlove: I seen that converter at Fry's! There's one for X-Box as well =]

 

[Kanzaki]

GoldenGlove: I seen that converter at Fry's! There's one for X-Box as well =]

 

[Brookman]

I don't see what the big deal with modding controllers is anyway. I mean, people can mod themselves with steroids and pace-makers. Should we allow people with pace-makers to play smash? I mean, they have an advantage, cause if someone else who is playing has a heart failure they willlose their match, but if they have a pace-maker then their heart won't fail and they won't lose.

 

[DieSuperFly]

I've been to tournaments for other games where they check every detail to prevent cheating. Yes, it's a long process but certain procedures have to be taken into action when money is on the line.
If you compete in something where money is involved, if the event isn't made to be as fair as possible, disregarding natural skill/talent/etc. then it can very well be considered illegal.
That above all else is why these rules are enforced.

Now, because you (Mana) went public with your controllers, they will probably have to check at tournaments. You brought this upon yourself.

There's a reason why they make rules like "no modified controllers". It's not how the game was meant to be played. The rules were made to make the game as fair as possible, allowing skill to be the determining factor between winning and losing. Having people out there using controllers that are designed to give them natural advantages that aren't available for everyone.... i mean, it's obvious in so many ways how that goes against how tournaments and smash are meant to be played.

It's not about johns. If a rule is enforced then at tournaments they'll have every right to check controllers that seem suspicious. And in the event that a controller they check has been tampered with they have every right to DQ that player or whatever they choose to do.
This isn't about Johns, or banning, and what it all comes down to is that if it weren't for you trying to make a little money on the side none of this "mod" business would have ever been a problem. People could have gone on playing the game having a good time not worrying about people cheating.
(Yes it is cheating. Altering the way it was designed to be used is cheating. Especially if you play with money on the line. If you have any moral integrity you can see that its wrong.)

As for people who do feel they have to open it up and alter the design of their controller, they should be well aware that it's not right.

 

[MyKo]

~Agreed...

 

[Zephyr]

I have to go back to another post I made a while back:

Smash drama > Band drama

Oh hell no. That's crossing the line.

Band drama>>>>>>>>>>Smash drama, guaranteed. This is nothing.

Now you made me get involved. =(

OK, to Mana, here's a suggestion: Since you lied to the whole community by saying that you were fixing controllers (Which is actually true using a different definition of the word fix) instead of modding them like you did to KoreanDJ's, why don't you just give it up? You know that you've lost and you've been caught out in your own deception. It's only your fault for bringing this upon yourself and posting in this thread. I think you'll notice that up till your post on the first page, everyone was confused and had no idea what Neal was talking about. But after you posted, you set yourself up to be the center of attention just so you could make some quick cash. Congratulations. That would be how you make yourself look like a total *******.

And you say that what KDJ said is only his opinion. Don't you think that KDJ's opinion on how he plays smash and how his controller affects how he plays is a whole lot more valid than yours? I mean, considering that he's one of the top players in the country, you think he would have a little common sense.

So why don't you actually address peoples' points instead of just giving false, vague responses that don't mean anything? I mean, it would be nice if you told us, but I guess you're not. Too bad. Manacloud gets to remain an ******* in the eyes of the socal smash community.

EDIT: I can't wait for Mana's response. This is gonna be too good. ^^

 

[Brookman]

So why don't you actually address peoples' points instead of just giving false, vague responses that don't mean anything? I mean, it would be nice if you told us, but I guess you're not. Too bad. Manacloud gets to remain an ******* in the eyes of the socal smash community.

What if people stopped assumptioning things and stopped worsening in my views? Or What if the socal smash scene didn't have eyes?!


posting again:
I don't see what the big deal with modding controllers is anyway. I mean, people can mod themselves with steroids and pace-makers. Should we allow people with pace-makers to play smash? I mean, they have an advantage, cause if someone else who is playing has a heart failure they willlose their match, but if they have a pace-maker then their heart won't fail and they won't lose.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

I have a question about the "fix" or "mod" or whatever Manacloud does. So apparently he's cutting the edges of the control stick or something to make it more responsive. Now has anyone else ever noticed that when you get a brand new controller, it seems like the control stick isn't as responsive? Like, a lot of times you'll try to dash but just walk instead. So a lot of times you want to start dash dancing but instead you just keep turning around. But after you've had a controller for a long time and broken it in, it fixes that. So does Mana's mod just do the same thing to controllers that breaking in does? If so then that's not cheating, and in fact it could be useful for instantly breaking in a new controller.

 

[nealdt]

Have you ever noticed how when you don't work out your muscles aren't that big? Like, a lot of times you'll try to tackle the running back in football but you just aren't strong enough to bring him down. So a lot of times you want to tackle the guy but he scores a touchdown instead. But after you've worked out for a long time and increased your strength, it fixes that. So does taking steroids do the same thing to muscles that working out does? If so then that's not cheating, and in fact could be useful for instantly increasing your strength.

Same argument, different nouns and verbs. STILL AGAINST THE RULES.

 

[Zephyr]

What if people stopped assumptioning things and stopped worsening in my views? Or What if the socal smash scene didn't have eyes?!


posting again:
I don't see what the big deal with modding controllers is anyway. I mean, people can mod themselves with steroids and pace-makers. Should we allow people with pace-makers to play smash? I mean, they have an advantage, cause if someone else who is playing has a heart failure they willlose their match, but if they have a pace-maker then their heart won't fail and they won't lose.

I'm sure people would respond to your posts if they weren't bases on ridiculous examples like this. Have you ever seen anyone at a smash tourney with a pace-maker? Plus, modding oneself isn't illegal. Modding the controller is. So there goes your whole argument swirling down the drain where it belongs.

 

[Mew2King]

It's not cheating unless you change the controller unfairly.

Fixing the joystick isnt cheating.

It's simply a way to use a broken-in controller without wasting all the time if doing it yourself. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Zephyr]

It's not cheating unless you change the controller unfairly

Fixing the joystick isnt cheating

KoreanDJ111 (10:37:47 PM): just makes the control stick a bit more responsive
Cort 28633 (10:49:03 PM): yeah but it does help
Cort 28633 (10:49:08 PM): and give you a slightly unfair advantage

Well that just kills that, doesn't it? It's a matter of principle, not magnitude.

 

[manacloud1]

according to u

Well that just kills that, doesn't it? It's a matter of principle, not magnitude.

according to you if its a matter of principle it should be applied on the game itself, i better not see anyone using ice climbers infinite. Or poke floats because the stage glitches and people fall through. Removing parts off a controller doesnt add onto the fact you can win. Its nothing like steroids like nealdt mentioned. You just believe that. If anyone of you can show me a modded controller just by removing parts how does it add to your ability to be better, your all out of your minds. Why are people allowed to find every little detail about the game of smash by finding out glitches. using pro action replay to see hit points on characters etc. However , when a guy like myself comes along to explore the other side of it you *****?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Have you ever noticed how when you don't work out your muscles aren't that big? Like, a lot of times you'll try to tackle the running back in football but you just aren't strong enough to bring him down. So a lot of times you want to tackle the guy but he scores a touchdown instead. But after you've worked out for a long time and increased your strength, it fixes that. So does taking steroids do the same thing to muscles that working out does? If so then that's not cheating, and in fact could be useful for instantly increasing your strength.

Same argument, different nouns and verbs. STILL AGAINST THE RULES.

Hold on a second! I don't think you understood my post completely. First of all, this is assuming that all Mana's mods do is break in the controller. Now all this mod would do is make it so that when you buy a new controller, you don't have to wait months for it to be good. This has NOTHING to do with your skill in Smash. Taking steroids would be better compared to something that can actually make you good at Smash, like mindgame juice (lol). What if I was using a new controller, but right before a tournament I bought a nice broken in used one from someone? That isn't going to increase my skill in Smash. That is only about the CONTROLLER, and has nothing to do with getting out of having to actually practice to be good.

What if I had a single controller that I've always used and had broken in for a long time, but then it broke and I would have to buy a new one? I would simply have to wait months before the control stick gets broken in, and what if I wanted to go to a tournament? Applying this mod (again, assuming that's what it does) would only get me a good controller back. That has nothing to do with working to get good at Smash! That is not comparable to taking steroids to make you stronger without work.

 

[manacloud1]

yes

Hold on a second! I don't think you understood my post completely. First of all, this is assuming that all Mana's mods do is break in the controller. Now all this mod would do is make it so that when you buy a new controller, you don't have to wait months for it to be good. This has NOTHING to do with your skill in Smash. Taking steroids would be better compared to something that can actually make you good at Smash, like mindgame juice (lol). What if I was using a new controller, but right before a tournament I bought a nice broken in used one from someone? That isn't going to increase my skill in Smash. That is only about the CONTROLLER, and has nothing to do with getting out of having to actually practice to be good.

What if I had a single controller that I've always used and had broken in for a long time, but then it broke and I would have to buy a new one? I would simply have to wait months before the control stick gets broken in, and what if I wanted to go to a tournament? Applying this mod (again, assuming that's what it does) would only get me a good controller back. That has nothing to do with working to get good at Smash! That is not comparable to taking steroids to make you stronger without work.

finally someone who understands me, this is what i do cat and all i hear is mana is money hungry, and modding people to cheat. You all seriously need to tap into the reality of this situation, this thread is stupid.

 

[Brookman]

Why is everyone ignoring my awesome arguments?! I demand a challenge.

 

[GoldenGlove]

Eh, who cares if mana mods controllers. It's up to the owner of the controller to use it responsibly (i.e. not use it in tournament play). If someone shoots someone else you don't get mad at the guy who sold him the gun.

 

[Zephyr]

according to you if its a matter of principle it should be applied on the game itself, i better not see anyone using ice climbers infinite. Or poke floats because the stage glitches and people fall through. Removing parts off a controller doesnt add onto the fact you can win. Its nothing like steroids like nealdt mentioned. You just believe that. If anyone of you can show me a modded controller just by removing parts how does it add to your ability to be better, your all out of your minds.

I was talking about principle based on universal rules, not what should be banned. It's about what is banned, not what some people believe should be banned. I'm not talking about "removing parts". I'm talking about the kind of thing you did to KDJ's. The magnitude of the infraction doesn't matter so much as the existence of the infraction itself.

Yep, we're all nuts.

I also like how you completely ignored my earlier post as I predicted you would. That's kind of why you're getting crushed here, ya know. You're becoming really predictable.

EDIT: *Ignores Brookman* XD

To Goldenglove: er...to you pay attention to what lawsuits go where? People are suing gun companies for illegal sales of weapons...

EDIT 2: To Manacloud's edit: Do you see other people using glitches in tournaments? No? If you modded controllers and didn't use them in tournies, that would've been just fine. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Stop trying to change the subject.

 

[nealdt]

Still a flawed argument, CatPhysician. Big muscles alone do not make you good at football; they are a tool you use when playing the game, but it is up to you to use them effectively. Same with a controller in Smash. So why is it not OK to use steroids to increase your physical tools, but you feel it's ok to mod your controller to inrease your smash tool?

I mean, I can once again take your arguments and replace the words to make a pro-steroid argument that uses the exact same logic:

"Now all steroids would do is make it so that when you come back from an injury, you don't have to wait months or years for your strength to return. This has NOTHING to do with your skill in football. What if I was a really scrawny guy, but right before a game I used a bunch of steroids? That isn't going to increase my skill in football. That is only about the MUSCLES, and has nothing to do with getting out of having to actually practice to be good.

What if I've always been buff and had worked out all my life to get strong, but then I got injured and lost a lot of my strength? I would have to work many months before I regained my strength, and what if I wanted to play in a real game? Taking steroids would only get me a good body back. That has nothing to do with working to get good at football!"

Mew2King: let me guess... Mana threatened to never host you again unless you posted in here? You wouldn't be the first to be threatened with something like that...

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Still a flawed argument, CatPhysician. Big muscles alone do not make you good at football; they are a tool you use when playing the game, but it is up to you to use them effectively. Same with a controller in Smash. So why is it not OK to use steroids to increase your physical tools, but you feel it's ok to mod your controller to inrease your smash tool?

I mean, I can once again take your arguments and replace the words to make a pro-steroid argument that uses the exact same logic:

"Now all steroids would do is make it so that when you come back from an injury, you don't have to wait months or years for your strength to return. This has NOTHING to do with your skill in football. What if I was a really scrawny guy, but right before a game I used a bunch of steroids? That isn't going to increase my skill in football. That is only about the MUSCLES, and has nothing to do with getting out of having to actually practice to be good.

What if I've always been buff and had worked out all my life to get strong, but then I got injured and lost a lot of my strength? I would have to work many months before I regained my strength, and what if I wanted to play in a real game? Taking steroids would only get me a good body back. That has nothing to do with working to get good at football!"

Mew2King: let me guess... Mana threatened to never host you again unless you posted in here? You wouldn't be the first to be threatened with something like that...

So if my good controller breaks, why is it not against the rules to buy a used controller that's already broken in?

In football, if you get injured you have to wait a long time no matter what, and there is no way around it. I don't think you can compare that to breaking your controller and waiting for your new one to get broken in, because there ARE ways of getting around it. You can simply buy a used controller off someone, or if you already have a new controller this would be a more convenient way.

 

[GoldenGlove]

To Goldenglove: er...to you pay attention to what lawsuits go where? People are suing gun companies for illegal sales of weapons...

So? A weapon being used irresponsibly doesn't neccessarily mean it was sold illegaly. If they're getting sued for illegal sales of weapons it's because they lack liscensing, etc. There's not a rule set like that that applies to modding controllers.