Olimar Vs Falco (MU Discussion)

[Excellence]

He shoots lasers, he jabs, he chaingrabs, he BDACUSs and he runs away. Let's discuss the match-up.

 

[Weruop]

there is a bunch of info in one of the sticked i think

something that im not sure has been said is that when he is recovering from a good distance away,run to the edge of the stage and f smash into (slightly charged if possible) f smash. time the 1st f smash so that if falco were to sideb to the edge, he'd hit the f smashed pikmin as it was in the final stages of its hitbox ( when its actually below the top of the stage) its a REALLY good frame trap

get in their head. think like them

 

[Greward]

nietono loses to rain
brood loses to dehf
richbrown loses to dehf

its really evenish? when did a olimar win consistently against a falco? never. this matchup is hell

ill write a summary later but its 7-3 falco or something like this imo

 

[Excellence]

It's not that bad and it's never going to be worse than 60-40 at the very absolute worse.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'm not going to discuss ratios because I really don't care which it is, I just know that he beats us Question though: I often have trouble camping against Falco because I don't know how to do it. I try to SH throw but get hit by lasers; same thing happens when I stand on the ground. How exactly do I camp that bird?

 

[clowsui]

hilt and i will record some concept matches this weekend, please list successful strategies against falco for olimar and successful strategies for falco against olimar and we'll record at least five games where we're semi-trying

i am firmly convinced this MU is even, 55:45 Falco favor TOPS

 

[The Fluff]

@Vocal.

I'd probably stay in mid range, SH pikmin toss, airdodge lasers. If Falco tries to reflect pikmin, just run in and punish. In general though, Falco outcamps us, so you'll be forced to approach eventually. Try not to approach until you have enough damage to avoid being chaingrabbed.

Disclaimer: I have no experience with the Falco matchup.

 

[clowsui]

Falco does NOT outcamp Olimar if done correctly imo, it's actually a completely even camping game. Falco's jab goes whack whack and kills Pikmin real quick but Olimar tosses them really fast too. Lasers can get Olimar as he jumps or as he's landing but Pikmin take lasers well. Long distance Falco has reflector option but Olimar has angles to work with. It's a very close camp game.

 

[Allied]

olimar is like a cute little baby.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Falco does not outcamp Olimar. If he's shooting lasers in the air, throw pikmin from the ground. If he's shooting lasers from the ground, throw pikmin from the air. Do what he isn't doing and stay mid range. I'll post more on the matchup later.

 

[Excellence]

Falco's Advantages:
- Chaingrabbing
- More mobility
- Reflector
- Jab Cancel

Olimar's Advantages:
- More range
- Early percent chaingrabs (not likely though)
- Easier to get kills
- More difficult to approach
- Pikmin absorb laser shots

Here's how I see this match going down. The batttle will basically be who can get the stock lead first. This is going to result in an early game camping match-up. Falco will try to camp with lasers while Olimar will try to camp using Pikmin toss. In the early stages, Olimar doesn't have the option to approach. Falco can keep him away too easily and the risk of getting chaingrabbed into a spike at early percentages, or even just gatling combo, is pretty much too great to risk approaching.

If Olimar takes the lead then it is now Falco's just to approach which he will try to do with mindgames, jab approaches, DAir, and phantasm. It's difficult for Falco to approach Olimar but it is easier for him to stay in Olimar's zone than it is for Olimar to stay in Falco's zone. If Falco takes the lead, then Olimar is going to have an extremely tough time getting percentage or kills because Falco can zip around the stage. If Olimar loses the stock then he becomes especially pressured because not only is he now in chaingrab percentages while trying to approach but Falco never has to approach again.

Whoever has the lead will be the one finding it a little easier to KO because they don't have to approach. Falco probably has it a little more difficult because his KO moves aren't that great and he'll find himself mostly trying to gimp Olimar with BAir and Shine. Typically, these will not work because they can be Whistled. Olimar will most likely be using something OOS to hit Falco or gimping his recovery after a throw (more likely the latter).

Overall, I would say the match-up is even based on paper but it's more difficult for Olimar to do what he has to do than for Falco to do what he has to do in order to win. That being said, I'd like to see this slapped as 45-55 in Falco's favor.

 

[Noa.]

Oli can edgeguard Falco pretty well with good predictions and reads.

Honestly almost all the situations in this matchup are even, apart from the close range situation in which Falco ***** us. Oli doesn't do a horrible job in keeping him out either.

It's a slight disadvantage if only for that.

As far as tourney results go DEHF is one of the best players ever and no Oli can do well against him for that very reason. He also knows the Oli matchup extremely well. Like very very very well.

Rain's also good and lets not get too hung up on how good Japanese Olimars are.

 

[Greward]

olimar outcamps falco if done right so falco will be approaching, hilt already told how to outcamp falco, it can be difficult without training though

brood is better than rain, and nietono is supposed to be better than brood, and they both loses to rain lol

whenever u space with fsmash or grabs falco will just jump over them (falco's short hop is so stupid) and get in ur face with a dair, ull most likely shield, so hell follow with a jab to beat all our oos options and then a grab to chaingrab or whatever. we gotta powershield the dair. chaingrab will sometimes kill us getting a 0-death kill that easy if falco doesn't mess up, if not well usually get like 60% from the followups after the dair because of our awesome techroll
we have no consistent ways to stop the side b.
falco is pretty good at gimping us and his fsmash is really troublesome when were on the ledge
bair will just beat everything we have in the air even though we can whistle and punish with nair most times
we have no chaingrab at falco and hes not that easy to combo out of a dthrow when hes at 10% or more

if the falco doesnt know the matchup its obviously difficult for him, olimar is always difficult if u dont know how to play him

its difficult to kill falco, his jab beats out most of our kill moves except spaced grab and fair (not sure about fair though) and its **** fast.

falco has a solid advantage against olimar, put the ratio u feel like to. i dont know about low seed play though

 

[Excellence]

olimar outcamps falco if done right so falco will be approaching, hilt already told how to outcamp falco, it can be difficult without training though

brood is better than rain, and nietono is supposed to be better than brood, and they both loses to rain lol

whenever u space with fsmash or grabs falco will just jump over them (falco's short hop is so stupid) and get in ur face with a dair, ull most likely shield, so hell follow with a jab to beat all our oos options and then a grab to chaingrab or whatever. we gotta powershield the dair. chaingrab will sometimes kill us getting a 0-death kill that easy if falco doesn't mess up, if not well usually get like 60% from the followups after the dair because of our awesome techroll
we have no consistent ways to stop the side b.
falco is pretty good at gimping us and his fsmash is really troublesome when were on the ledge
bair will just beat everything we have in the air even though we can whistle and punish with nair most times
we have no chaingrab at falco and hes not that easy to combo out of a dthrow when hes at 10% or more

if the falco doesnt know the matchup its obviously difficult for him, olimar is always difficult if u dont know how to play him

its difficult to kill falco, his jab beats out most of our kill moves except spaced grab and fair (not sure about fair though) and its **** fast.

falco has a solid advantage against olimar, put the ratio u feel like to. i dont know about low seed play though

Falco is not going to be trying to jump over anything Olimar does because he'll get pivot grabbed or UAir'd into a combo which he will never want. Combos probably won't happen unless Falco is already behind since he won't be approaching unless he's down a stock anyway. DAir is okay on Olimar's shield but you should always be powershielding when you know what's coming anyway. That being said you just jab him away and force him to come back by camping him some more.

Falco's chaingrab won't be a death grab unless you're bad at SDI into the stage or meteor canceling his spike. Again, this isn't likely to happen because neither of you is going to approach one another until you're way out of combo percentges. Olimar's main deal is to camp Falco until he's out of combo percentage then go in and kick his ***.

The consistent way to beat Side B is to know the range of it, learn where Falco uses it, and punish it with a OOS option after powershielding it. You'll probably be using FSmash or DSmash depending on where Falco lands. I can only see this being a problem if he's using it just outside of Olimar's grab range but even then, I'd rather be trying to FSmash Falco offstage than grab him.

The easiest thing to do to Falco out of a grab is DThrow > USmash > UAir. It's easy, it works, it's damaging. Buffer the USmash.

KOing is difficult on both sides but since Olimar's moves have more range and are better suited for KOing on the defensive, he'll probably have an easier time than Falco. It is still hard though.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

The reason why falcos are ****** us is because DEHF is just better than oli out there.

Falcos just gotta camp at long range and combo the **** out of us at close range. We gotta stick to mid range.......

We can dtilt to beat sideb as well as fsmash when he's offstage.

Is it true we can usmash oos when during falcos jab1 or jab2?

 

[Greward]

what about rain, bob saget? japan exists, and in olimar's metagame theyre the best

Falco is not going to be trying to jump over anything Olimar does because he'll get pivot grabbed or UAir'd into a combo which he will never want. Combos probably won't happen unless Falco is already behind since he won't be approaching unless he's down a stock anyway. DAir is okay on Olimar's shield but you should always be powershielding when you know what's coming anyway. That being said you just jab him away and force him to come back by camping him some more.

Falco's chaingrab won't be a death grab unless you're bad at SDI into the stage or meteor canceling his spike. Again, this isn't likely to happen because neither of you is going to approach one another until you're way out of combo percentges. Olimar's main deal is to camp Falco until he's out of combo percentage then go in and kick his ***.

The consistent way to beat Side B is to know the range of it, learn where Falco uses it, and punish it with a OOS option after powershielding it. You'll probably be using FSmash or DSmash depending on where Falco lands. I can only see this being a problem if he's using it just outside of Olimar's grab range but even then, I'd rather be trying to FSmash Falco offstage than grab him.

falco will jump when he expects a spaced fsmash or a grab, landing on our face. grab and fsmash have delay and u cant do any pivot grab during its delay.
dair to jab was just an example, he can fall with laser to jab instead or just airododge to jab and whatever he wants. anyways if ur able to powershield everything i dont know how u still arent the best player in the world.
falco can shield ur second jab. not reliable.

u cant tech the spike always, and even if u meteor cancel ur still gimpable (% dependant though). so ur thinking that falco will just keep throwing lasers even if he sees they arent working. no falcos who know the matchup should try to go for the camp, they are really good at approaching olimar.

of course falcos will finish their side b in ur face (irony). in addition, the side b has not much landing lag if done right. we can stop it with tilts and nair consistently. usmash, fsmash and fair sometimes works but i think it depends on the pikmin and where we hit falco.

that combo is ok but when falco have some % its dodgeable. falco is still light and not as much fast faller like fox so hes not as easy to combo.

of course olimar is the best at killing in the matchup

 

[Dnyce]

None of falco's aerials are safe on shield, but you have 3-5 frames of error to pull off that usmash oos

 

[DEHF]

None of falco's aerials are safe on shield, but you have 3-5 frames of error to pull off that usmash oos

Dair is safe on Olimar's shield if the Falco spaces it, bair probably is as well.

 

[Dnyce]

Dair is safe on Olimar's shield if the Falco spaces it, bair probably is as well.

I remember talking with Shugo about it a week or so ago, the timing is strict but you can usmash oos before falco can jab or anything. It's like a 3 or 5 frame window for input, so it's not like Olimar is going to be nailing it frequently.

Spaced bair might be true, too lazy to look at frame stuff on that right now. haha

 

[Noa.]

But really why do you guys think the matchup is so bad? Yes he ***** us at close range but so does Snake, Peach, Ike etc. A character dominating us in close range is pretty common lol. The chaingrabbed can be avoided by platform camping so you don't have to worry about that too much.

It might be a bad matchup but it's not horrible lol. And please don't just cite tourney results. Since when have those been the end all be all of determining matchups?

 

[-Vocal-]

But really why do you guys think the matchup is so bad? Yes he ***** us at close range but so does Snake, Peach, Ike etc. A character dominating us in close range is pretty common lol. The chaingrabbed can be avoided by platform camping so you don't have to worry about that too much.

It might be a bad matchup but it's not horrible lol. And please don't just cite tourney results. Since when have those been the end all be all of determining matchups?

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I can hint at it. First, Peach and Ike are not great characters anyways, so once we figure out how to avoid their up close game they go back to being the relatively bad characters they naturally are (not to mention Peach can't really kill well). Snake is top tier partially because of his nades and mines, and Oli is great at defeating those, so then we force Snake to approach Oli, something he's not particularly good at. Falco, as someone else mentioned, has a much better time adapting, plus unlike Peach and Ike he's already a good character with lots of positive features, which just makes him that much harder to deal with

 

[Excellence]

what about rain, bob saget? japan exists, and in olimar's metagame theyre the best



falco will jump when he expects a spaced fsmash or a grab, landing on our face. grab and fsmash have delay and u cant do any pivot grab during its delay.
dair to jab was just an example, he can fall with laser to jab instead or just airododge to jab and whatever he wants. anyways if ur able to powershield everything i dont know how u still arent the best player in the world.
falco can shield ur second jab. not reliable.

u cant tech the spike always, and even if u meteor cancel ur still gimpable (% dependant though). so ur thinking that falco will just keep throwing lasers even if he sees they arent working. no falcos who know the matchup should try to go for the camp, they are really good at approaching olimar.

of course falcos will finish their side b in ur face (irony). in addition, the side b has not much landing lag if done right. we can stop it with tilts and nair consistently. usmash, fsmash and fair sometimes works but i think it depends on the pikmin and where we hit falco.

that combo is ok but when falco have some % its dodgeable. falco is still light and not as much fast faller like fox so hes not as easy to combo.

of course olimar is the best at killing in the matchup

Okay, first let me say this. Falco probably won't be approaching Olimar. When they get close it will probably be because Olimar is trying to punish Phantasm. The Falco could get desperate but there are exceptions to every general situation so please don't go into the rare times he will approach. Second, if Falco is going to jump over Olimar's FSmash or standing grab then he's going to either Short Hop or Full Hop. If he short hops, even SHDL, he gets hit at his feet by FSmash. If he full hops, Olimar has time to runaway and possibly pivot grab. You would have to make the mistake of attacking first or standing in the same spot for Falco to SH anything at you.

Falco is not good at approaching Olimar. No one is good at approaching Olimar except for Wario, Peach, Meta Knight, and Luigi. I would like to know when all of Falco's lasers are going to stop failing him and his running away strategies will begin to suck because from what I've learned they don't. Eventually Olimar will have to go for the kill or try to punish something with an Usmash, Dsmash, or throw and when he tries to he should be taking damage.

The combos I mentioned are to be done at the appropriate percentages, this is a given and supposed to be self-evident. Don't tell me there are no combos then tell me "okay at certain percents." Just tell me I'm right and move on.

You're failing the thread right now because you're aruging with me with the intention to disprove what I'm saying, which not only have you not done because the facts are in your favor, instead of proving that Olimar has an easier or more difficult time in this match-up.

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I can hint at it. First, Peach and Ike are not great characters anyways, so once we figure out how to avoid their up close game they go back to being the relatively bad characters they naturally are (not to mention Peach can't really kill well). Snake is top tier partially because of his nades and mines, and Oli is great at defeating those, so then we force Snake to approach Oli, something he's not particularly good at. Falco, as someone else mentioned, has a much better time adapting, plus unlike Peach and Ike he's already a good character with lots of positive features, which just makes him that much harder to deal with

Well said however in addition to that, I'd like you to think about why these characters beat us at close range. The answer, of course, is there speed over our close range attacks, range & priority, and in Peach's case Float. Falco has speed, priority, and canceling on us which to me makes him a little more difficult. As you said.

 

[Greward]

falco's short hop is high enough to not get hit by a fsmash. maybe yellow will, but i dont think so.

i disagree with u noa. i think real gaming should be more important to decide matchup ratios than only theory.

i dont think that a falco who see hes not able to outcamp us will continue throwing lasers and shines and hope he gets the lead in the camping game. i thinked that falco was good at approaching us because i thinked we had no oos options, so if fino is right it probably is better for us. he can beat our pivot grabs if he lands with a laser probly.

You're failing the thread right now because you're aruging with me with the intention to disprove what I'm saying, which not only have you not done because the facts are in your favor, instead of proving that Olimar has an easier or more difficult time in this match-up.

ur right, im sorry xD btw excelence if u say that falco is worse than peach why u say its 45-55?

@fino: are u sure u take care of the shieldstun frames we get from being hit? if u did, then i suck hahah

btw
dthrow fsmash regrab works
we can di out of his multihit jab and fair in his face
and falcos dash attack is also great against olimar. it usually beats out our fsmash and it can beat a bad spaced grab too.
we should be able to whistle most of falco's jab cancel stuff and punish him, even though if he knows it he can charge a usmash or whatever

 

[-Vocal-]

Oh yea, random knowledge for those who didn't see it before: crouch and Dtilt go under Shine

Sorry I can't be more productive right now

 

[Greward]

dtilt approach too good

 

[clowsui]

uhh @ excellence

why would falco NOT want to approach?

 

[Greward]

uhh @ excellence

why would falco NOT want to approach?

falcos like to throw lazorz

 

[Excellence]

falco's short hop is high enough to not get hit by a fsmash. maybe yellow will, but i dont think so.

i disagree with u noa. i think real gaming should be more important to decide matchup ratios than only theory.

i dont think that a falco who see hes not able to outcamp us will continue throwing lasers and shines and hope he gets the lead in the camping game. i thinked that falco was good at approaching us because i thinked we had no oos options, so if fino is right it probably is better for us. he can beat our pivot grabs if he lands with a laser probly.



ur right, im sorry xD btw excelence if u say that falco is worse than peach why u say its 45-55?

@fino: are u sure u take care of the shieldstun frames we get from being hit? if u did, then i suck hahah

btw
dthrow fsmash regrab works
we can di out of his multihit jab and fair in his face
and falcos dash attack is also great against olimar. it usually beats out our fsmash and it can beat a bad spaced grab too.
we should be able to whistle most of falco's jab cancel stuff and punish him, even though if he knows it he can charge a usmash or whatever

I just don't agree with a lot of what you're saying. Perhaps I am wrong, in which case someone should explain it to me more. However, this is not theory, these are easily testable and can be reproduced over and over to show consistency enough to become fact. If Falco short hops, I'm pretty sure he should get hit in the foot.

I don't think this is worse than Peach. I think this is harder but I think Peach has the advantage more so than Falco does. I was just pointing out that Falco is an overall better character which makes his less of an advantage still difficult.

Check out Brood vs DEHF. He got wrecked for SDI back then FAiring Falco because he relied on it so I'm just saying be cautious of that.

 

[Jane]

theres some really nice combos that work on falco at early percents. like dthrow > dair > upsmash like rich has been saying, or throw > fsmash > regrab like greward said. i know dtilit > dtilt > something else works well too, and im sure theres a lot more combinations that could work nicely, we just need to experiment and report back to the boards with it.


*waits for rich's post* :D

 

[Noa.]

Greward, I agree with you that we shouldn't just use theory. Tourney results are pretty important to determine ratios.

But if you want me to think that a matchups is unwinnable or near unwinnable you need more than tourney results. It's important to find balance is all I'm saying.

Rich has rarely taken sets off Larry, but he has done it. Rich has also beaten SK92 back when he played and I think he was the disputed 2nd best falco in America but not too sure tbh. I know little of Japanese Oli's set score against Falco and the same with European Olis.

Even though I personally believe that it's only a slight disadvantage, a solid disadvantage against Falco seems perfectly fine for me and I'd settle for that. But right now large disadvantage is a bit much.

Also Excellence btw Peach's float doesn't improve Peach's close range game much at all. But it still ***** us lol.

 

[Dnyce]

Okay, first let me say this. Falco probably won't be approaching Olimar. When they get close it will probably be because Olimar is trying to punish Phantasm. The Falco could get desperate but there are exceptions to every general situation so please don't go into the rare times he will approach. Second, if Falco is going to jump over Olimar's FSmash or standing grab then he's going to either Short Hop or Full Hop. If he short hops, even SHDL, he gets hit at his feet by FSmash. If he full hops, Olimar has time to runaway and possibly pivot grab. You would have to make the mistake of attacking first or standing in the same spot for Falco to SH anything at you.

Falco is not good at approaching Olimar. No one is good at approaching Olimar except for Wario, Peach, Meta Knight, and Luigi. I would like to know when all of Falco's lasers are going to stop failing him and his running away strategies will begin to suck because from what I've learned they don't. Eventually Olimar will have to go for the kill or try to punish something with an Usmash, Dsmash, or throw and when he tries to he should be taking damage.

The combos I mentioned are to be done at the appropriate percentages, this is a given and supposed to be self-evident. Don't tell me there are no combos then tell me "okay at certain percents." Just tell me I'm right and move on.

You're failing the thread right now because you're aruging with me with the intention to disprove what I'm saying, which not only have you not done because the facts are in your favor, instead of proving that Olimar has an easier or more difficult time in this match-up.

Well said however in addition to that, I'd like you to think about why these characters beat us at close range. The answer, of course, is there speed over our close range attacks, range & priority, and in Peach's case Float. Falco has speed, priority, and canceling on us which to me makes him a little more difficult. As you said.

Ugh, so much fail. Correcting everything in here would just be an utter waste of my time.

I know little of Japanese Oli's set score against Falco and the same with European Olis.

There's videos of Nietono vs RAIN (grand finals) in the video thread ;o Nietono being the best Japan Oli btw, lol.

 

[Noa.]

Yeah I know Rain has beaten Nietono and presumably Brood but I was saying that I how many times they played before that and win:loss ratio etc.

 

[Excellence]

Also Excellence btw Peach's float doesn't improve Peach's close range game much at all. But it still ***** us lol.

I was only speaking in respect to Olimar.

Ugh, so much fail. Correcting everything in here would just be an utter waste of my time.

You know, I actually have all of your posts set to ignore becuase you are completely devoid of any level of intelligence, logical reasoning, or instinct beyond survival. Somehow, I felt like you were going to comment on something I said and I was right about you, as always. More to the point, you're wrong, you know you're wrong and you couldn't hold a candle to me in putting together a feasible explination so even if by some chance you were right, you'd still fail. Disappear.

Yeah I know Rain has beaten Nietono and presumably Brood but I was saying that I how many times they played before that and win:loss ratio etc.

I think 45:55 is fine but no one is really giving a complete layout and explaining it.

 

[Dabuz]

starting to think this MU is 60-40 in falco's favor, after playing enough falcos irl, i can safely say that we go pretty even in camping (falco's reflector makes camping him for anything more than minor damage pretty hard) and his range, priority, and ways to get close to us and in the air make this matchup a little difficult, we still have spacing, beat him slightly in camping, or a lot if he does it wrong, and can stop his approach, but not efficiently enough IMHO

 

[Excellence]

starting to think this MU is 60-40 in falco's favor, after playing enough falcos irl, i can safely say that we go pretty even in camping (falco's reflector makes camping him for anything more than minor damage pretty hard) and his range, priority, and ways to get close to us and in the air make this matchup a little difficult, we still have spacing, beat him slightly in camping, or a lot if he does it wrong, and can stop his approach, but not efficiently enough IMHO

What of KOing?

 

[Noa.]

Excellence in the Oli matchup Peach's float barely helps her close range game. At all.

And haha you called Fino stupid. He's still a troll but we're still not in 2008 anymore.

 

[Dabuz]

What of KOing?

he has DACUS, which is very long length and can be used to punish a mere jump, landing, roll, ect.

next his fsmash, this is actually very powerful because it has deceiving range and is used to lure out airdodges+spotdodges or rolls, AND, its has enough priority to hit through our smash attacks (cept for yellow IIRC)

bair...if we are in the air, just out-ranges all our aerials when spaced, or can be used to punish a spotdodge/whistle, moderate kill power but often able to be effectively used when we are offstage

dair spike, obvious, also has the CG on us which will kill if the olimar player cannot up-b cancel correctly

upair is a very good mid-high % own throw follow up and a fast falco can link dthrow->upair (or maybe dair->upair, i forget which) as a true combo at the right %s (which happen to be kill%s), even with DI


TBH, i feel olimar has more trouble killing because falco can play very safe and can just plain beat out a lot of our kill moves

 

[Dnyce]

*edit double post*

 

[Dnyce]

You know, I actually have all of your posts set to ignore becuase you are completely devoid of any level of intelligence, logical reasoning, or instinct beyond survival. Somehow, I felt like you were going to comment on something I said and I was right about you, as always. More to the point, you're wrong, you know you're wrong and you couldn't hold a candle to me in putting together a feasible explination so even if by some chance you were right, you'd still fail. Disappear.

This is just as good as some of my wifi comments, lmao. Pure gold.

Someone quote me, so Excellence can see this (since he has a claim to blocking me lol)

Things wrong with your post

Okay, first let me say this. Falco probably won't be approaching Olimar.

Probably is such a poor word when trying to discuss something logical. You should play larry sometime. He approaches with falco and doesn't give a flying **** about olimar's fortress, lol.

When they get close it will probably be because Olimar is trying to punish Phantasm.

This was the part that really got me mad.
(1) Utilt = punishing phantasm and it sets up for a free smash. So why would falco be close when he just got hit by a smash attack
maybe you meant:
(2) Shielding phantasm and going to punish. Maybe you don't understand how phantasm and falco's superiority in close range battle vs Olimar, but that sounds like a COMPLETELY idiotic idea unless the falco spaces phantasm to it lands right next to you; to which my response would be "play better falcos"
(3) Usmash OoS - take some practice, I've only done it a couple times (but I forget the circumstances, I dunno if it's legit or not). it which point, falco would be up in the air... not close to you.

Maybe you have a secret way to punish phantasm that nobody knows about? But from my exp, going in to punish it (option 2) is a bad idea.

Second, if Falco is going to jump over Olimar's FSmash or standing grab then he's going to either Short Hop or Full Hop. If he short hops, even SHDL, he gets hit at his feet by FSmash. If he full hops, Olimar has time to runaway and possibly pivot grab. You would have to make the mistake of attacking first or standing in the same spot for Falco to SH anything at you.

If Falco is going to jump, it's going to be a short hop... or a full hop... does he have any other choices? No **** he's going to do one of those two if he's jumping.... those are the ONLY TWO JUMPS HE CAN DO.
Wait, you said if he's going to jump over olimar's fsmash or grab. So that means he knows olimar is going to attack... or in other words "does it first"
And I quote

You would have to make the mistake of attacking first or standing in the same spot for Falco to SH anything at you.

So, me being the irrational creature you claim me to be... I ask... what kind of circular logic are you trying to throw at us?

Another question... why would falco be SHDLing that close to us. That's like his WORST option.

If he full hops, you have time to run away if you're not already committed to a move.

Falco is not good at approaching Olimar.

Minus moves like Jab and down air.

No one is good at approaching Olimar except for Wario, Peach, Meta Knight, and Luigi.

Really? I thought all those characters had a hard time approaching olimar as well
Wario - utilt / usmash OoS / grab
Peach - fair / purple pikmin toss
MK - fsmash / grab / upB
Luigi - pivot grab

I would like to know when all of Falco's lasers are going to stop failing him and his running away strategies will begin to suck because from what I've learned they don't.

I don't even understand what this means. From what it sounds like... I see lots of tears and johns. I would like to know when all of Ice Climbers CGs are going to stop failing them. Here's the thing, we're two years into the game, and those strategies still work relatively well. Chance are they won't.

Eventually Olimar will have to go for the kill or try to punish something with an Usmash, Dsmash, or throw and when he tries to he should be taking damage.

Falco can get caught in the same trap. You kind of don't have any follow-up information... so I don't understand what you're trying to say again. Very bad explaining. Perhaps you're trying to say "instead of going for the kill olimar should take damage" ??

Just tell me I'm right and move on.

Quite a big ego you have there for no results...

think about why these characters beat us at close range. The answer, of course, is there speed over our close range attacks, range & priority,

Is this your first time playing a fighter game... ever...? at all? I thought this was ****ing common sense. LMAO, this ego is soooooo hilarious. Why don't you just feed all us bottom dwellers the basics to fighter games. Fighting triangles and everything. I'm sure we'd all be glad to hear about it. Perhaps you can go more in depth on different types of jumps (other than SHs and FHs).

^^^^^^^^ Giant waste of time (like I said) ^^^^^^^^​

Imma go on ahead and say you lack a lot of exp. Just a pointer.

 

[Jane]

If Falco is going to jump, it's going to be a short hop... or a full hop... does he have any other choices? No **** he's going to do one of those two if he's jumping.... those are the ONLY TWO JUMPS HE CAN DO.

Perhaps you can go more in depth on different types of jumps (other than SHs and FHs).