Olimar Moveset Discussion - Dair

[dahighii]

Dair enough. (Get it? Ah.)

Anyways, dair is part of what I use to mixup my game against someone who's getting used to my play style. I don't usually approach with Oli (unless I'm forced too against, say Falco, for instance) and when I do my opponents usually think I'll go for a fair, but they never see the dair coming. Plus the sheer shock of being slammed to the ground by an Oli is so foreign to a lot of people (at least the one's that I play) that they almost never know what to do afterwards, usually leading to and easy grab or smash afterwards

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Yeah starting a new thread wouldn't be a good idea. I say with Fearless' recent activity explosion, we should discuss fair and have him teach us what he's doing

I happen to use fair a lot as well, since I have to deal with Lucarios all the time <_< I replaced my use of up smash with fair in many cases. If you'd all like, since I have to redo my frame data upon the new information I found out about hitstun, I could go ahead and do whatever move we start on in here and post the data when I finish (which doesn't take me long to do one move).

 

[Noa.]

Ok, we should restart this thread.

Fair is good when your opomment dash grabs.
Good for comboing since one fair leads to the next.
Fair tricks like landing after fair and quickly using fsmash.

Is it possible at very specific percents to combo fair into dair? Like the Ken combo lol.

We'll do dair next.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I'll get working on the frame data.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Fair comes out in 7 frames ladies and gentlemen. Only 3 frames after jab. Use it to punish quick things like spot dodges and rolls.

Now, I'm not going to type a lot because this doesn't take a lot of words to explain.

F-air is Olimar's best spacing move!

-It's safe as hell if you fastfall and hit with only the tip of it whether or not they are shielding (the ****ing definition of safety... yellows get mad range for this). This is where you force the opponent into a reset of options. See what he does the first time, and expect it the second, or expect a mixup if you're playing a good player.
-Yellows prevents you from getting owned by long range transcend chars (mk marth). Yellow dair ****ing ***** MK's up b and up air spam.
-There are many mixup opportunities. Take for example this one I learned while fighting DSF. I faired him a lot in game 1 and wasn't really using side B just kinda fairing too much and lost 2 stock. Second game I started side b camping and mixing it up with aggresive but safe fairs, ended up being last hit but he won again. Third game, at the very start, I ran up to him short hop fast falled no attack and immediatly grabbed his shield. He had gotten so used to my fair pattern that I could do this to him for a large portion of the match. Fair conditioned my opponent to walk into my grabs, and he is a pro. I ended up 2 stocking him in this match. All on battlefield, and he won a close game on brinstar in game 4.
-On castle seige coming down from being hit up, you can fair the statue and it extends it pretty **** far especially if it's yellow, they walk into it every time .
-Like I said. If someone gets used to your camping you can always mix it up by going in the air and fairing them before their aggression can pass your wall.
-Mixing up red fair and other colour's side b's keeps every single one of your kill moves fresh.
-Running off the ledge and immediatly fairing dairing or bairing, while risky, can be very effective when placed correctly.
-Fair absolutely DESTROYS MK's dair camp. If an MK seems to have that style or that they're starting to be dair camping *****es, fair them! JUST RUN UP AND DOOO ITTTT.
-Did I say yellows ****?
-When you first down b the first 2 pikmin are red and yellow...... (SAKURAI TELLING US SOMETHING)
-Fair leads to a gimp guarenteed if you hit snake off the ledge and he DI's neutral or into the stage.
-YYYYEEEELLLLOOOOWWWW. WHISTLE TO ALWAYS HAVE YELLOWS!
-Certain matchups get ***** by it. Some examples are : mario, dk, diddy kong (from what I've learned vs dekar), charizard (bait the rock smash), ness - I end up fairing a lot versus ness.

Gunna think of more to say lol

I remembered that I have a video of me fighting FL's best Ness (who just recently beat seibrik at a tourament in grand finals.......). The video is pretty old it's from last halloween so I've improved drastically since then but you can see the early stages of my developing fair game (took me a while :D had to teach it to myself). I'm getting new videos soon. I gotta bring dazzle back with me to orlando.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuzNARZtTI

By the way, Shoutout to Zazen. He's been playing only for a few months but has been training with me and razek hardcore. He tied with Fino for 2nd best placing Olimars at MLG, and had to play Tommy G in both winners and losers. Tommy's our best falco.

NEED TO TALK TO RICHBROWN ON AIIMM

 

[Noa.]

Wow that's good stuff. Like really interesting stuff.

I think we're done with fair lol.

 

[Dnyce]

Since we are restarting; I believe it would be beneficial to the community to quote useful information in the Original Post. This would help with organization as well as easy access for those in search of help with Olimar.

 

[Noa.]

Yeah I did that with fsmash, but haven't gotten around to the old moves. I'll make sure to do it soon.

 

[dahighii]

So...there hasn't been a reply in here for two days. I'm guessing we're done with fair lol, so how about we move on to dair?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I don't think we're done with fair, I think it just died down a bit lol I've been too busy to make constructive posts lately myself

 

[Axi]

i don't normally rush off stage but once in a while when my opponent gets tossed off the stage ill rush over and downfall of the ledge with a fair...seems to work considering i use it scarcely, they don't predict it coming.

 

[dahighii]

I just noticed on the front page that Oli does his Pikmin Tether with one hand, and I think that's awesome

But in relevance, why is no one posting here I'd contribute more posts if I was more knowledgable, but I'm still a growing Oli, and I love getting tips to make him better. Where art thou Olimar community!

 

[Geddan]

so after reading all this stuff that's been said about fair. i've been using it a lot more and it really is amazing in certain MUs that you wouldn't imagine with the closed minded grounded olimar mindset.

i was fairing marth and mk. :O

 

[Noa.]

It's time to move on to dair!

Remember, advantages, disadvantages, when to use the move, and when not to use the move.

 

[Geddan]

fast falling a dair for any color pikmin while recovering high works wonders. fino first told me about it, and i've implemented it in my game. a lot of the time it's a pretty safe way to recover as a mix up recovery option.

dair is probably one of the most pikmin situational aerials that he has, because it doesn't autocancel. unless i have yellows i won't usually try to dair anyone unless i'm going for a spike in which that case, color matters less. i mean i know it matters, but if there's a clear opening it's not like you're not going to spike someone just because you have a different color.

the occassional dthrow > dair string at low percents is a good mix up and if they don't tech it, yeah.. follow ups, lol

if you're in the air and your opponent is below you, a lot of the time they won't expect the dair because they tend to think it has a lot more lag than it does. if they're a noob, it can lead to an upsmash. i know hilt has been experimenting with some legit followups out of short hopped yellow dairs.


i'll add more as i think of it. please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Noa.]

I updated the OP with info about tether. I still need to do a couple more moves we discussed.

One thing that I like to do with dair is use it when the opponent is getting up from the ledge. Especially when they're over 100 percent, they're very easy to dair. Doesn't work if they jump up or attack from the ledge, but a normal getup is vulnerable to dair.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

U can use it out of whistle in the air to surprise foes much like what richbrown did in that video.

 

[Denti]

fast fall dair onto the stage has been the best use i've found for it. seriously. i don't remember who said to do it but it works like a charm, it's so unpredictable and you get stage control back. seriously. XD

spiking is good too. all pikmin types can spike so that's nice.

 

[RichBrown]

Dair autocancels

so like against noobs you can repeatedly jump and dair it's funny

I like to use it to help me land

I wish I was better at landing it in general though, a red fair is ridiculous

 

[Geddan]

lol, thunderstorming with olimar. sounds like fun

 

[Denti]

if you dair just right with a fire or yellow you can completely sever brinstar in half.

true story

 

[Geddan]

if you dair just right with a fire or yellow you can completely sever brinstar in half.

true story

the more you know...

 

[Dabuz]

fast fall dair onto the stage has been the best use i've found for it. seriously. i don't remember who said to do it but it works like a charm, it's so unpredictable and you get stage control back. seriously. XD

spiking is good too. all pikmin types can spike so that's nice.

pretty sure i said something about it :3 glad to see it works :D

 

[Denti]

so i think i should add you can Dair/spike luigi out of his tornado when he is recovering vertically. I know you can for sure with yellows and fire pikmin, but probably a purple as well.. and maybe a blue... but i doubt a white could. never tested all the pikmin types, just experimented on wifi matches

 

[Turazrok]

I kill off the sides with dair more often than I spike with it. If you time it right it could probably completely throw off someone's DI.

 

[RichBrown]

So I was applying some of the stuff Fearless said about Fair yesterday. He is very right about everything he said, but I just wanna reinforce what he said about using it too much (I'm not sure if he actually said it and I'm too lazy to check but I'm gonna say it anyways).

One of the worst things that can happen as Olimar is getting caught in the air, because a good player can juggle you pretty easily. So if someone is trying to approach you by the ground, cease the fair game and shut down their ground approach, since Oli can shut down any ground approach in the game, cept maybe ICs.

But yeah, Fair enables aggression, which is nice for me because I'm one of those players that needs space so I can think about what I'm gonna do, I don't like being cramped, so fairing them away and making them scared to approach me is super useful.

I also wanna add that if you land a retreating fair on someone's shield, it's virtually impossible for anyone in the game to shieldgrab you. I think Fearless mentioned this too. I just wanna add to that that it's probably a good idea to grab as soon as you land from the retreating fair, since they will try to grab, but we will be out of their range, but since our range goes halfway across the stage then we can grab them.

Sorry to go off the dair topic, I can't really think of anything to say about it, other than use it to help yourself land, mixing it up with whistles and airdodges. Dthrow-dair against Falco at the edge I think is guaranteed... I do it all the time. Maybe that can be exploited on the stage, Dthrow-superfactautocanceleddair-some other follow up. I'm gonna play with that. Again that probably only works on a strange weight character like Falco. Maybe Diddy lol... Diddy....

2,600 post, holy heck. I've made 2,600 posts since 2002. I wonder how many hours I've spent typing on this site...

 

[-Vocal-]

This thread has been dead for a while, but I figure this fits best here.

I've noticed occasionally that my f-air will send opponents backwards. I got curious, so I went to practice mode to tinker with it. Apparently this occurs when Olimar is facing away from the other character and backs into him as he f-airs. This is easily replicated by standing directly next to a character facing away, short hopping towards the character, and immediately performing f-air. (This method is difficult to pull off on small character; I wasn't able to perform it on MK or Kirby at all. However, it did work on Jiggilypuff and some of the shorter members of the cast [Diddy, Falco] so I would assume it works on everyone else.) I've only ever done this accidentally in matches, and getting that close to someone generally doesn't sound like a very good idea, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways to see if anyone could figure out a use for it.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Dair can be good to punish nado.......if u DI the nado correctly he's open for the dair.

Cant u also dair mk out of shuttle loop?

 

[Weruop]

hmm idk. against certain characters and against most players, dair can really suprise sum1 who is about to jump up and upair you. when playing DEHF i hit a lot of dairs while descending. i also remember hitting a few dairs on Chips TL. mixing this with whistling will really keep ur opponent guessing.

when i D smash and the opponent DIs funny and ends up on the ground, i like running up to a little bit past where theyd be if they rolled towards me in order to get up off of the ground. then once i reach that spot i SH dair, retreat, and then fsmash/grab. sometimes u will sweetspot the dair but if not, and they roll towards u, ull usually hit the sourspot and then can get a grab. if they attack get up/get up in place, then they ull be fine as long as u f smash right after the retreating dair. i cant remember if i'd do the sh dair with or without fastfall, but if it works with fastfall, then its probably the better option