Olimar Moveset Discussion - Dair

[BOB SAGET!]

Ok llumys. I meant dont use it far off stage as an attack.

Dude a char with a good recovery and air speed can ledge hog u if u tether a certain angle where the char can end up below u.

 

[Llumys]

Landing on the stage and grabbing the edge are different.

Also, can I request you make your posts somewhat easier to decipher?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, sorry I haven't been in here for awhile. I'e found myself using tether more and more, to be honest. There isn't too much to say about the attack though. I never use it when they're close though, never oos or to try to stop air camping as some do. However, actually, against certain MKs I do use it if they tornado predictably. I noticed a few basic things weren't mentioned (or i missed them), tether goes through anything and everything, including physical terrain when Olimar is grounded. When used in the air, as long as you land within 60 frames after the hitbox disappears, you will have almost no lag instead of the half of a second from Olimar bouncing on his head. Works as an alright follow/mix up from uair. Whether you're in the air or on the ground, don't use it if you're near the opponent. This is all obvious >.> I'd rather discuss another attack lol

 

[Noa.]

Tether does have trascendent priority. I forgot to mention that.

Tether can provide an alternate move for comboing if no other one works. I also find tether useful for opponents recovering high.

Hilt, you can pick the next one since you weren't able to discuss the past two moves. =p

 

[Cracker1204]

probably known XD but if you let go of the edge and immediatly press diagonally up towards the stage you will attack with up b over the ledge instead of grabbing the ledge or instant returning.

Also a little thing i found was that when you let go of the edge and press side b immediatly with a yellow pikmin the pikmin will fly over the edge, this wont happen with other pikmin. could maybe be followed up by double jump and instant return tot the ground (not an instant return but you get what i mean) and a buffered grab or something...maybe the opponent wants to dodge the pikmin or isnt expecting an attack right afterward... nah probably not usefull AT ALL, just throwing it out here XD.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I also find tether useful for opponents recovering high.

ahhh yes, yes, something I forgot to mention.

Hilt, you can pick the next one since you weren't able to discuss the past two moves. =p

So much pressure >.<
Well, we've discussed a smash and a special, so far, I say we go with an aerial next. Uair? It's a simpler move to discuss that we can keep active and get over with fast. As Llumys said in the social thread, a lot of the discussions take awhile and we run out of things to say and start repeating ourselves >.> So I think until we pick things up, easier attacks to discuss should be focused on more.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Uair is good. A lot of matchups are r great to use uair in. The uair also affects our stage choices in some mus.

Though we can also do nair as another option.

 

[PSIQuasi]

I'm going with the nair, or maybe his tilts, dtilt in particular maybe?

 

[IcyLight]

dthrow > tether

next move

 

[Noa.]

Yeah, we'll do uair now.

You can all start discussing it now, officially.

 

[Llumys]

Each hit can only clash once, therefore this move has a lot more "priority" than his other aerials.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, sorry for the lack of activity in this thread so far.

Up Air... what a good move lol

uair is our only pikmin based move with large amounts of priority. The main two up airs worth mentioning are Yellow and Red.

Yellow uair, my personal favorite, deals the least damage of the two, notably. However, the range on the attack is enormous, and it's extremely difficult to SDI out of it.

Red, however, is a bit different. The range isn't as large, but is still noticeable. It's a bit easier to SDI out of it, mid attack, however if you do manage to pull off hitting your opponent with the whole thing, it deals twenty-four ****in damage, making it our strongest attack (unless you include a fully charged purple fsmash). Yellow uair, on the other hand, deals 16 damage, a noticeable drop. Blue and purple deal 22, so I group them in the same group with red. It's basically whether you'd want dependability or damage. Both of which are amazing, you really can't go wrong with uair.

I use it most of the time as a platform trap, or a juggle follow up after usmash. It's our best aerial pressure attack.

Platform Trapping. On stages like battlefield uair is amazing for platform traps. On the lower platforms, it's easy to react to an opponent's movements, short hop, and use the uair to cover the entire area. Yellow uair will cover just about the entire platform, while the others will cover about half of it, which is still more than enough. On the top platform, what I'll usually do, if I hit with the tip of the uair, and it's shielded, and I havent started to fall yet, I'll usually use my second jump and either uair again or nair (usually nair). This takes advantage of the extremely small lag after the uair by throwing out something fast directly after it.

Uair does, however, have noticeable landing lag, so fast falling it usually isn't smart (not sure why you would anyways lol).

This part has to do with my personal play style, take what you want from it. But actually, my favorite thing about uair doesn't actually involve using the attack. If you watch my matches you'll notice that oftentimes I'll jump up, towards my opponent, with them right out of uair range and follow their movement and fall speed. This way if they do cross that line and are in uair range, it's a fast enough attack to use my second jump and throw out to where they dont have anything to out do it in time. However, when most players see an olimar directly below them in the air, they get worried about the uair and try to stay the hell away, especially if they don't have an option that can combat it that well. I'll then land right before them and punish their landing or whatever they do. Pivot grab, fsmash, purple toss, dsmash, whatever. I kept them in range of my attack and they're in lag from landing on the ground. So yeah, I basically just use it as a setup for spacing. For those that haven't seen my videos lately, I'm not nearly as defensive of an Olimar as I use to be >.> I focus a lot more on traps, setups, watching my opponent's patterns, and faking my opponent out in general. That's basically what I use this attack for, setting my opponent up because, nine times out of ten, they're going to be afraid of our uair.

But if I have a yellow up front I just jump up and **** them with it.

 

[Noa.]

Nice post Hilt. The best so far in this thread.

That's an interesting trap you got there. I might have to use it. Seems very nice.

Some simple things about uair. If you're high above the stage with your opponent, and they airdodge uair, read where they fall and quickly nair them. Pretty old but decent every once and a while. Uair makes a great wall that opponent's need to get through when falling back on stage. Uair is one of my favorite moves.

Sh uair is good when your opponent is approaching high. Also, when my opponent is right above me, sh uair is a much better choice then usmash since it doesn't get outprioritized and you're mobile.

 

[DanGR]

Regarding the "priority" of Olimar's upair...

Originally, my testing seemed to conclude that attacks that clash with pikmin based attacks will not clash more than once, but I found later that this clearly could not be the case- as I've seen Olimar's upair continually clash with Kirby's down air on rare occasions.

This can only mean that Pikmin- that is, possibly the pikmin in ALL of Olimar's pikmin based attacks, (excluding fsmash, and conclusively including upair) are to be considered SPECIAL attacks. Let me explain.

When two grounded attacks clash with one another one will clash cancel or they'll both be canceled- a very common example being two characters' jabs against each other where they both come out on the same frame.

When a special attack clashes with another attack the particular hitbox that collided will follow normal clashing properties- that is, it will either clash cancel or cancel the colliding attack. What's different about special attacks, though, is that the special attack as a whole won't automatically be canceled. Ex. A jab combo won't continue if it clash cancels whereas... Meta Knight's tornado will. Olimar's upair follows the same properties... yes, Olimar is flinging a tornado above his head every time he does an upair... a tornado without the vulnerable spot at the top. :D

What I DON'T know is WHY Olimar's upair will cancel out SOME multhit attacks like Fox's dair, but won't beat out others like Kirby's. It may be because the single hits of Kirby's dair do more damage (I think), even though Fox' seems to come out more rapidly. I don't really have the means to test this and found out the answer, though.

 

[Fino]

Regarding the "priority" of Olimar's upair...

Originally, my testing seemed to conclude that attacks that clash with pikmin based attacks will not clash more than once, but I found later that this clearly could not be the case- as I've seen Olimar's upair continually clash with Kirby's down air on rare occasions.

This can only mean that Pikmin- that is, possibly the pikmin in ALL of Olimar's pikmin based attacks, (excluding fsmash, and conclusively including upair) are to be considered SPECIAL attacks. Let me explain.

When two grounded attacks clash with one another one will clash cancel or they'll both be canceled- a very common example being two characters' jabs against each other where they both come out on the same frame.

When a special attack clashes with another attack the particular hitbox that collided will follow normal clashing properties- that is, it will either clash cancel or cancel the colliding attack. What's different about special attacks, though, is that the special attack as a whole won't automatically be canceled. Ex. A jab combo won't continue if it clash cancels whereas... Meta Knight's tornado will. Olimar's upair follows the same properties... yes, Olimar is flinging a tornado above his head every time he does an upair... a tornado without the vulnerable spot at the top. :D

What I DON'T know is WHY Olimar's upair will cancel out SOME multhit attacks like Fox's dair, but won't beat out others like Kirby's. It may be because the single hits of Kirby's dair do more damage (I think), even though Fox' seems to come out more rapidly. I don't really have the means to test this and found out the answer, though.

I'm sorry... but nothing in this post made sense to me... at all. Maybe I'm just stupid ._.

On topic: olimar's uair is amazing... it devours all life


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

What don't you understand?

Clashing? I thought I explained normal clashing properties pretty thoroughly. D:

The important thing to know is that upair ignores a lot of regular aerial properties, and mimic's MK's tornado in a lot of ways. :D

____________

My theory:

Key:
I'm certain.
Not certain.

Upsmash- Special attack
Dsmash- Special attack
Fsmash- Projectile
Upair- Special attack
Downair- Special attack
Fair- Special attack
Bair- Special attack

 

[IcyLight]

i have a few things to add. using uair and double jumping with a nair when they are on a platform is ****ing ridiculously amazing. there is no way they can shield both fully, and half the time they drop their shield so it doesn't break meaning it's almost guaranteed, and combos into a tether.... nair > tether.

all of the uairs listed below can be done with any pikmin, but only worth it with yellow imo.

1) through the bottom of the main platform on smashville
2) through the bottom of the main platform on battlefield
3) through the bottom of the boat on rainbow cruise (can drop off the far right if they are in the cubby, uair through ship and STILL recover if you have a large pikmin chain)

if i'm high enough, i always fast fall my uair and try not to get the last hit so i can dj fair them. as long as last hit doesn't connect they won't get knocked upwards so uair actually combos into fair, which is already known but not used often. i do this a lot when they are on the top mid platform of battlefield, because it's a good position.

 

[IcyLight]

Regarding the "priority" of Olimar's upair...

Originally, my testing seemed to conclude that attacks that clash with pikmin based attacks will not clash more than once, but I found later that this clearly could not be the case- as I've seen Olimar's upair continually clash with Kirby's down air on rare occasions.

This can only mean that Pikmin- that is, possibly the pikmin in ALL of Olimar's pikmin based attacks, (excluding fsmash, and conclusively including upair) are to be considered SPECIAL attacks. Let me explain.

When two grounded attacks clash with one another one will clash cancel or they'll both be canceled- a very common example being two characters' jabs against each other where they both come out on the same frame.

When a special attack clashes with another attack the particular hitbox that collided will follow normal clashing properties- that is, it will either clash cancel or cancel the colliding attack. What's different about special attacks, though, is that the special attack as a whole won't automatically be canceled. Ex. A jab combo won't continue if it clash cancels whereas... Meta Knight's tornado will. Olimar's upair follows the same properties... yes, Olimar is flinging a tornado above his head every time he does an upair... a tornado without the vulnerable spot at the top. :D

What I DON'T know is WHY Olimar's upair will cancel out SOME multhit attacks like Fox's dair, but won't beat out others like Kirby's. It may be because the single hits of Kirby's dair do more damage (I think), even though Fox' seems to come out more rapidly. I don't really have the means to test this and found out the answer, though.

10imdoublepostpro

in regards to this, did you know metaknight nair goes through all of olimars uairs? meaning..you drop below the edge, jump and uair through the stage they can react and nair and gimp you. aka don't even try to uair a mk above you when trying to recover, as good mk's know to nair against oli's recovery. it's really stupid

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

ICY I've been doing that for a few months it's so amazing

if they DI the nair wrong they get up-b'd too in which case you can land immediately on the top platform, fall, and set up again

 

[Fino]

The max range of Olimar's uair hits through spear pillar (which we all know is incredibly important )
I can't really test if it goes any further =/


~Fino

 

[*_Echo_*]

wow havent been on here for awhile >.>

on tether
iv been using it a lot lately as a follow up like if their to far to hit with an u-air but very close to the blast zone and i use the very tip of the tether, it makes it so much harder to punish when using the tip. :D just hit em up with a kill move (i.e. u-smash ect), they nearly die, u jump and start spamming a spaced tether, and they cant really do much because by the time they land their to far to punish u :D

on u-air
its amazing. >_>
use on ledges.
use in air lol
@DanGR- i got wat u said, i dont know why fino didnt lol

 

[Tin Man]

Uair is good for planking on stages like FD and Lylat.

 

[IcyLight]

be wary planking with it. don't do it at all against snake, because grenades, stuff like that. but against everyone else daaaaaammmnn it's too good

 

[Noa.]

Icies blizzard wall also gets you if you try to plank. It's stupid.

I'm moving onto another move in the next day or two. If anyone wants a specific move, then request it.

 

[Fino]

be wary planking with it. don't do it at all against snake, because grenades, stuff like that. but against everyone else daaaaaammmnn it's too good

snake can just utilt to stage spike you too. lol

I vote for get-up attack <100% as our next move to discuss =3


~Fino

 

[Noa.]

We'll be going over all of Oli's moves. From the obviously useful ones like Oli's smashes, to his obscure moves like tilts. Though, we will not discuss moves like getup attack and ledge attack.

Yeah Fino. >.>

 

[Fino]

Yeah Fino. >.>

I feel that the OP was a bit ambiguous
*facepalm*
Told you guys I'm dumb


~Fino

 

[Tin Man]

I suggest Nair to be the next move

 

[Noa.]

Nair is a good move to discuss I suppose. I'll move it onto that now.

 

[IcyLight]

g nair = grounded nair
a nair = aerial nair


g nair > smash

a nair > tether

a nair > a nair > tether (at low % on heavies works the best)

g nair > jab x2 > grab

g nair > grab/pivot grab

uair on platform, they shield you dj a-nair immediately aftwards...almost guaranteed to land, and combos into tether

if you whistle while falling and immediately nair you can't see the nair because whistle colors. i have a replay being uploaded shortly of me and it's in the replay

WAC > g nair > follow up

g nair > utilt > dsmash

g nair > utilt > uair > tether

g nair > dtilt > (dtilt again on fast fallers) > usmash > vertical combo

g nair > utilt > nair > tether

dthrow > a nair > vertical combo

dthrow > sideb > g nair (may require whistle first if they attack, like a marth fairing) > combo



basically nair is too ****ing good

 

[Zori]

probably olimars best move, it prioritizes almost all attacks (big issue) and its a great mix up option

 

[Noa.]

It doesn't work well against disjointed hitboxes though.

Nair is a great OoS option at times. Sometimes Peach does Fair to dsmash in an attempt to shield poke. You can OoS Nair the Fair and punish the dsmash. There are other moves in the game like this. If Mk repeatedly dtilts your shield you can probably OoS nair.

 

[Llumys]

It's a great move. It's multi-hit, has deceptive range, and doesn't have the same disadvantageous properties as Olimar's other aerials. I'd like to mention how insane this move is out of your shield.

Also, it's great for juggling. You can even use your midair jump after a short hop nair, and that leads to quicker juggles.

Blah.

 

[Fino]

NAIR is amazing.... nair pops them *****s in the AIR.
Good for combo finishers and for follow-ups
Fun priority... err.... actually has priority :3


~Fino

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

noa lost to my fox i heard

nair *****... it rlly saves a lot of matchups

 

[ScAtt77]

N-air has a stupid amount of priority. It even beats out Olimar's own U-air. O.o I love using this move to punish spot dodges. :D

 

[Noa.]

Cause friendlies mean EVERYTHING Fearless. >.>

 

[BOB SAGET!]

rising fullhopped nairs are great. great range. If u really want to hit your opponent in the sair this is the move for you. Its last a long time so even when a foe air dodges u still might be able to hit afterwards them if u didnt nair to early.

 

[DanGR]

I've got something for all of you to consider.

Go to training mode with an Ike or someone large. Set them at about 30% or so.

Now short hop a rising nair at them.

Then full hop the same thing and tell me what you find. :D

 

[Don Guero]

what is Olimar`s strongest attack?
(the one that will kill at the lowest %)
If this is not the right thread to ask, which one is?