Olimar challenge #?: OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS

[professor mgw]

Olimar as any characters does, have problems getting around specific moves that being alot or few. The purpose of this thread is to discuss how to get around SPECIFIC moves. The topic will change on a weekly basis.

#1 Pit's Arrows: Finished
Power shielding against Pit's arrows is the most common yet effective method so far. Shorthop Pikmin throws while dodging arrows while yet more risky can also be useful in the situation. D-tilt arrows will cancel arrows shot at you while you inch closer.

#2 Metaknight's Tornado: Finished
Preparing, Punishing and Predicting are the keys to beating meta's tornado.
Learn the opponents pattern and exploit it!
MOVES THAT WORK
Pivot grabs
Running grabs toward the nado when it is about to end. Powershielding, shield tilted up
Purple toss into nado
Spaced FAIRS with purple, yellow and red
Spaced yellow F-smash towards the lower half of the tornado
Fastfall into the nado with Nair

NOTE* Certain moves will prove to be more effective than others


#3 Toonlinks projectiles: Finished
Spam olimar's pikmin throw! Olimar can outcamp toonlink, just stay calm and don't approach.

#4 Snake's Up smash & Neutral B: Finished

#5 Luigi's Nair & Jab: Finished

#6 Marth's Range: FINISHED

#7 Ice Climbers blizzard wall: Finished

#8 Meta knight dair & d-tilt: Finished
(Outlines will be updated much later, Im busy)

#9 Luigi's tornado: Finished

#10 ZSS armor pieces: Finished

#11 Wario D-AIR & N-AIR: Discuss

 

[Llumys]

I tend to shield Pit's arrows. I don't notice many people doing this, but it's also a good idea to power shield them and run in between.

Also, grammar...

 

[Dyyne]

Dan made a thread like this a long time ago...the concept is pretty good, so hopefully it won't get forgotten like last time.
His was more about tactics though, and was a bit more in depth. You might want to do this, since saying just "arrows" can just be answered by "powershield every single one".

 

[Noa.]

We should've started with something more substantial to discuss. Most people in the current metagame know to powershield arrows.

You should've said like G&W's bair. How to sdi out of it, what move we do out of the sdi, how can we punish it OoS, etc.

Pit's arrows are kinda meh. They're easy to powershield, and if you can punish Pits OoS from an arrow they shot, they're not good Pits.

 

[Mota]

Pit's are arrows are quick and manipulable, yet Olimars small size, coupled with ADing and side B should be able to handle it.

You guys should do TL's OHKO

 

[Aloha]

If you whistle a couple of times you should outcamp pits arrows!

 

[Tin Man]

Power shield arrows yeah, and when u get close, fast walk wile power shielding because if u run u lose some major grab range.

 

[Snail]

Pit's are arrows are quick and manipulable, yet Olimars small size, coupled with ADing and side B should be able to handle it.

You guys should do TL's OHKO

Don't walk into a dsmash at the edge. Move avoided. omg so hard

I'd support reviving DanGR's old thread, but there are moves much more problematic than Pit's Arrows

 

[Fino]

I haven't read any other responses.... but I hope everyone has said "powershield"


~Fino =]

 

[DanGR]

To get past arrows I walk (don't run) towards Pit, powershielding arrows as I get closer. Then when I'm within AR (angel ring) range I'll mix up between the following, in order of the options I use most:

1.) short hop pikmin throws, while dodging arrows.
This in itself can be difficult if you don't have a really good grip on camping. You have to be an efficient thrower, throwing the right pikmin in the correct places, and airdodging and shielding at the right times. It's pretty similar to dealing with Falco's lasers. If you're good at camping Falco, you'll probably do well versus Pit's camping game.

2.) walking forward more, and then backing away.
Pit players will usually stop using arrows when you get close. They might run forward and grab, roll behind you, shield, side-b, short hop an attack, half-full hop an up-b to bait a response and then fast fall an aerial, etc. Basically, backing away is a very safe way to punish a (usually rushed) response from the Pit player.

So in effect... you run forward, they expect you to expect arrows, and then they run forward to attack. You then either pivotgrab them, pluck cancel->fsmash, or something; you play your usual spacing game.

3.) waiting.
Same as #2 except you're better able to limit your opponent's options if he's near the edge of the stage if you don't back away immediately after you powershield an arrow. The drawback is that you're not as safe though, being closer to Pit and all.
______________

The key to dealing with his arrows is being patient and not getting frustrated if you mess up. If you do get hit by an arrow, just calmly fall to the ground and get ready to shield the next one.

 

[Llumys]

If you're good enough, you can just stand in place and power shield every one. It'll make 'em mad and force them to approach, which is exactly what you want.

(:

 

[Tin Man]

ok we have solved this one, next move please.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

So what is discussed next? How about Metaknight's tornado?

 

[professor mgw]

Meta's tornado is next.

 

[Noa.]

It's important to learn how to SDI out of the tornado. But I haven't myself. :x I believe that you SDI into the center of the tornado and then up. The first hit of the tornado is the one that you can use to SDI out of the tornado.

As for moves that beat tornado. I know pivot grabbing works. Aerials and purple tosses may beat it if you aim near the top of the tornado, but I haven't tested or practiced it.

Standing grab will beat grounded tornado. SDIing out of tornado and then nairing is useful.

It's important to see what yellow pikmin moves can beat the tornado.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

grab if hes approaching u with nado. if your caught in it, di above it then nair.

edit: ****. u beat me noa

 

[RichBrown]

Powershield, tilt your shield up, grab.

If in the air, try to nair it.

Most MKs I play don't tornado close enough to the ground to where I can grab it so I have to power shield it. Occasionally I'll try to upB it but that's very rare.

OH and with pits arrows, you can Dtilt under them if you time it right, and if he angles it down at you the dtilt clashes with it, all while inching you forward. How **** is that?

I swear I have the coolest ideas

 

[Noa.]

I like to do the same dtilt trick with Falco's lasers. You might get hit by a laser or two, but it doesn't matter. It's especially funny when the Falco tries to use his reflector on you while you're dtilting and it misses, so you hit him with dtilt. Oli's dtilt is awesome.

 

[Zori]

>__> this is akward

 

[Weruop]

on YI i know its smart to run to the edge then jump or w/e. if torndado dies on the edges of YI they can slide off afterward and die iirc
ive heard from a secret source that when in nado, we can DI up, nair, and fastfall into the nado.
if u are like cornered, then shield and tilt it up. as they start going away from u, short hop pikmin throw or run up and grab IF U CAN.

pits arrows are easy to get around. i really hope no1 is having problems with them lol

 

[Fino]

on YI i know its smart to run to the edge then jump or w/e. if torndado dies on the edges of YI they can slide off afterward and die iirc
ive heard from a secret source that when in nado, we can DI up, nair, and fastfall into the nado.
if u are like cornered, then shield and tilt it up. as they start going away from u, short hop pikmin throw or run up and grab IF U CAN.

pits arrows are easy to get around. i really hope no1 is having problems with them lol

Don't fast fall... if they're rising you'll just get caught back in it again.

Also, falcon kick flat out beats tornado..... on another note so does oli's filt X:

I think all of oli's tilts either clank or beat out tornado... which is obviously the problem oli's have when fighting tornado spam.

yellow pikmin f-smash beats tornado from the bottom.

Spaced yellow, purple, and red pikmin fairs beat out tornado, but only yellow backairs for some reason (at least in my exp)

Running off the edge and tethering, and then uair the landing through the stage beats tornado =]


~Fino

 

[Weruop]

yeah but not if u nair and then fast fall like i said
wow did not know yellow d smash beats nado. wut exactly do u mean tho by from the bottom?
ive also gotta try my tilts vs nado

<3 fino

 

[Pyronic_Star]

Don't fast fall... if they're rising you'll just get caught back in it again.

Also, falcon kick flat out beats tornado..... on another note so does oli's filt X:

I think all of oli's tilts either clank or beat out tornado... which is obviously the problem oli's have when fighting tornado spam.

yellow pikmin f-smash beats tornado from the bottom.

Spaced yellow, purple, and red pikmin fairs beat out tornado, but only yellow backairs for some reason (at least in my exp)

Running off the edge and tethering, and then uair the landing through the stage beats tornado =]


~Fino

fairly certain oli's tilts don't... i know that his u-tilt doesn't not beat a moving tornado...

spaced fairs rarely beat tornadeo... if they do its dependent on the mk tornadoing wrong... and you have to ff a fair through the center of the nado...



mk's tornado is godly... so i stopped trying to beat it.. instead i powershield it, angle shield up.. then predict if the mk will move away or try to shield poke
if you predict correctly you get a free u-smash/grab

if they are going to move away you must start chasing them while they run from you in there tornado animation, or you won't be able to punish it and its better to just pikmin toss

if they try to shield poke just keep holding shield, but predicting there movement as they end there tornado is key

 

[Fino]

yeah but not if u nair and then fast fall like i said
wow did not know yellow d smash beats nado. wut exactly do u mean tho by from the bottom?
ive also gotta try my tilts vs nado

<3 fino

fsmash, not dsmash. lol. from the bottom of the tornado.In other words, if you threw out an fsmash when mk is the height at which you cannot grab him at, you will knock him out, but if you did it from say the left platform of BF an he's approaching from the right, you would not hit him out of it (unless it fell on top of him XD).

Another useful not: You can also pivot grab mk out of tornado when he is using it below you (like when you're on a platform) which a lot of MK's will attempt at least once on RC ;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D

RC for pres. (get that ****** out of the white house)


~Fino

 

[Weruop]

u can nair or dair thru the top of the nado pyro and if u can fair too then im sure u can bair as well.
my ad fino, i meant f smash. thx. good to know
&yea, pviot grabbing on platforms is too fun lol

we need to determine wether or not tilts beat nado and if so, which ones? cuz u 2 seem to disagree with eachother

 

[Syko_Lemming]

upB also beats it.

 

[DanGR]

if u can fair too then im sure u can bair as well.

Just pointing it out, but the pikmin in bair comes from below. You've got to hit the top of the tornado to knock him out so I doubt it'd work. I haven't tried it though.

*shrugs, and then makes a habit of shrugging*

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Olimar's tilt's don't go through tornado. Yellow Fsmash only goes through at the bottom of the tornado and when he starts it. You have to hit him right after he starts the tornado, otherwise it doesn't work. If you wanna argue that the tilts go through tornado i'd like to see a video of it happening.

I've knocked mk out of tornadoes twice with purple toss. Once right after he started it (like yellow fsmash) once in the middle of him using it, both times at the top of his tornado on the side.

Also yellow fair does go through it iirc if perfectly spaced.

 

[professor mgw]

Ive only used purple pikmin toss,
Yellow FAIR, spaced purple and yellow F-smashes.

Not to rain on your parade richbrown but your not the first 2 think of D-Tilt into pits arrow, it cancels.

 

[Kantō]

i havent played enough pits to actually ask myself that question, as for MK's tornado, just avoid it ha, stay in the air. thats usually a MK ground move and you can punish if he uses it in the air pretty easy

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Shield a mk's tornado completely and then run at him and do a running usmash, planning on not hitting him but doing it as if you would. Most mks will spot dodge it. If he does, he's probably going to do so again if put in the same situation. Next time you shield a tornado and dash towards him, charge the usmash a bit and release it so that it connects as soon as his spot dodge ends. If he goes by another means to avoid you punishing the tornado, plan and punish accordingly. Dash grab him if he dodges away, pivot grab if he dodges around you, grab if he shields. Learn your opponent's patterns and exploit them.

 

[Tin Man]

Wow seems like I joined the convo too late, looks like everything has been said. Shall we move on?

 

[Noa.]

In regards to breaking the tornado with purple pikmin toss, we toss the purple pikmin into the tornado like a basketball goes into a hoop, right?

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Shield a mk's tornado completely and then run at him and do a running usmash, planning on not hitting him but doing it as if you would. Most mks will spot dodge it. If he does, he's probably going to do so again if put in the same situation. Next time you shield a tornado and dash towards him, charge the usmash a bit and release it so that it connects as soon as his spot dodge ends. If he goes by another means to avoid you punishing the tornado, plan and punish accordingly. Dash grab him if he dodges away, pivot grab if he dodges around you, grab if he shields. Learn your opponent's patterns and exploit them.

This.

10char

 

[RichBrown]

Ive only used purple pikmin toss,
Yellow FAIR, spaced purple and yellow F-smashes.

Not to rain on your parade richbrown but your not the first 2 think of D-Tilt into pits arrow, it cancels.

But I was the first to post it

 

[professor mgw]

lol got me there^^

So is this pretty much cover or u guys wanna keep it going 4 a day or 2?

 

[Noa.]

Yes, I think we're done.

I hope you're adding an outline of what we discussed into the OP.

 

[professor mgw]

Sorry I can't, to busy with stuff to read ALL of it and sumerize. Most ppl read it regardless.

 

[Fino]

#3 Toonlinks projectiles: Under Discussion
3 different projectiles can have so many uses, how do we beat the move?

Punch the homo in the throat, see if he still throws projectiles then


~Fino

 

[Weruop]

id kinda consider his zair has a projectile too
since they can space it well and since it has good range, its nearly as effective as his boomerang/arrows/bombs

vs arrows u can kinda just jump over them and throw pikmin
versus boomerang u have to just be on ur guard and play smart. be careful of stuff hitting u RIGHT AFTER u shield the boomerang. especially zair
versus zair u can f smash if ur fast enough and send it out before he zairs u. u can also shield and punish appropriately
bombs are easier to get around cuz u can sorta see when theyre coming. after u shield a bomb hitting ur shield, watch out for a nair or a fair though.
also remember that they can zair u with a bomb. if u forget that then they can abuse the bomb pull >zair on u.