OK! Ness Q&A/Social Thread

[Boiko]

Okay, I know how this post is going to sound because I don't have any supporting evidence, but after watching a lot of Ness videos and playing P:M Ness for a considerable amount of time, I feel very confident in saying that I am one of the better active Ness mains around. I think people right now would say The NZA is probably the best, but I feel like there are a lot of adjustments he could make to his play style to be significantly better. You don't need to take me seriously, and I don't expect anyone to. I'm working on getting some vids up so you could see what I'm talking about.

BTW I do play with good people including Codi, Animal, Attack and I'm still waiting for Rolex to come by so I can show him what's up.

Bear with me Ness mains.

 

[Bryonato]

yeah gonna need some footage to talk that big lol

also I love NZA but McBad (awestin) is pretty much the undisputed best

Join the ness skype group btw.

 

[GMaster171]

Does ljc really keep the invincibility during an aerial? i checked the frame data and both the invincibility and animation last 14 frames. I keep getting hit.

Are you cancelling the animation? Or are you using a different set of invincibility frames, like the ones immediately after a ledge grab?

While the ledgejump animation only holds 14 frames of invincibility, any extra frames you have from grabbing the ledge carry over into your next action. you get 37 from grabbing the ledge (minus 6 for ledge grab animation), meaning you have around 16 to do things after the ledge jump while invincible.

Its the same reason why Fox can ledge dash usmash to get a hitbox out while invincible, assuming perfection of course.

 

[choknater]

So if you ledge grab and immediately ljc nair, will the nair hitbox come out in time? Ledge jump 14, double jump maybe 1 frame, nair 4 frames.. so that's 19 frames, so the nair comes out 3 frames after losing invincibility.. does that sound about right? Or does ljc actually reduce the duration of.the ledge jump?

I was able to ljc nair through charizard's flames but im still not sure if the nair is invincible. Still, 2-3 frames of vulnerability from the ledge into an attack is still amazingly good.

 

[GMaster171]

Sorry, I wrote that strange, I meant you have around 16 frames after the ledge jump before you are vulnerable. it runs down like this:
Grab ledge; animation takes 6 frames, gives you 37 frames of intangibility. 31 frames remaining.
ledgejump; takes 14 frames, leaving you with 17 frames of ledge invincibility left to do whatever you want.
DJ nair would have 12 frames of invincibility between the first frame of the hitbox and the first frame vulnerable, assuming perfection again. you can fairly consistently get the hitbox out before invincibility drops tho, with a little practice

 

[Bryonato]

gm you da best

 

[Boiko]

yeah gonna need some footage to talk that big lol

also I love NZA but McBad (awestin) is pretty much the undisputed best

Join the ness skype group btw.

Lol yeah, without a doubt. You'll definitely have something to look forward to though !

 

[Bryonato]

So as of a few weeks ago I rescind any previous statements of Ness being in or around bottom 5. I don't think I'd put him in bottom 10 either

 

[choknater]

17 frames?! yeah that is amazing

bryon

i still put ness in top 7

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

but i'm crazy like that. i may be the only one. though, i wouldn't play ness if i didn't really believe it..

 

[Bryonato]

yeah i know you do. I don't think top 7 but he's definitely not bottom 10

 

[The_NZA]

Okay, I know how this post is going to sound because I don't have any supporting evidence, but after watching a lot of Ness videos and playing P:M Ness for a considerable amount of time, I feel very confident in saying that I am one of the better active Ness mains around. I think people right now would say The NZA is probably the best, but I feel like there are a lot of adjustments he could make to his play style to be significantly better. You don't need to take me seriously, and I don't expect anyone to. I'm working on getting some vids up so you could see what I'm talking about.

BTW I do play with good people including Codi, Animal, Attack and I'm still waiting for Rolex to come by so I can show him what's up.

Bear with me Ness mains.

I'm definitely not the best (although its sweet for you to say). Awestin has the best results, and I still have crippling nerve issues in tourney that I have to work out. If you have advice for my playstyle, I'm always looking for it.

I still think Ness is bottom 10. Awestin did a great job this week, but it was still M2k doing some very questionable things (he DI'd bthrow wrong every freaking time, dying very early on). You cannot assess a character off a match, or a set. I do however think its possible Ness v. Fox is close to 50-50. I don't know wtf M2k's mewtwo was doing that match...

 

[Bryonato]

That probably wasn't aimed at me but I'd still like to say my opinion comes from thinking about it for well over a couple weeks now, not just McBads showing at OKI

 

[the_irish_dude]

for those who havent seen that match btw....


sorry bout the audio but here is Awestin(Mcbad) vs. (M2K) in bracket.

http://www.twitch.tv/stockcancelgaming/b/517458058

 

[choknater]

Sigh i really wanna watch that video but it's not loading on my phone! Is it on YouTube yet lol

 

[Bryonato]

Twitch VoDs don't work on mobile afaik.

 

[the_irish_dude]

youtube link!

subscribe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XQN08_ILwU

 

[GMaster171]

Thought I'd do a short write up on DJL (or double jump landing), which is another one of those fairly difficult techniques that can be used to safe frames. For the most part it will be used for landing on platforms quickly (10 frames quicker than WD), but it could also be used to safe 3 frames whenever landing with a DJ available.

First of all, to do the DJL, you need to DJ while Ness' waist is pretty much inside a platform/the ground. Doing this will cause Ness to drop slightly and land on the ground. Due to having a very low velocity, he will also have 0 lag while landing this way (thx 8adge for correcting me before I wrote this lol). Compared to doing a WD, it has 0 landing lag while the WD will have 10. This will not move Ness horizontally, but you will have the 10 frames to act, which can be similar to the WD movement if you choose. Compared to bair AC landing, it will be at least 5 faster (1 for starting the bair, 4 for landing) if done perfectly.

Of course this is a fairly hard technique to do (1 frame window with both jumps), but in the year 20XX...

Other random use is that you can do this whenever you land to save 3 frames (not 4 cause 1 frame to DJ) on your landing. useless in matches, but maybe TAS or something.

Screenshot showing when you need to DJ (thanks ST for image)

 

[CallMeCAM]

I"m new to Ness and I am not sure of his AT's such as DJL, is there a place that explains this better? I'm sure it's been answered before. I can't quite figure out how people are landing dairs like on the ground.

 

[Bryonato]

I'm not quite sure what you mean, sorry :/ djl (double jump land) is explained above your post.
Landing dairs on the ground? Do you mean double jump cancel dair?

 

[CallMeCAM]

I actually just figured it out, sorry for the strange way of asking the question. I really didn't even know how to ask it.

What I was trying to figure out was how people get such crazy movement on Ness and it's because you can cancel his double jump ANY time. So that I was trying to figure out! Thanks for the reply!

 

[Bryonato]

Is this the cam I played at Apex in a bunch of friendlies?
Would've been on the second to last day; we just spammed a bunch of Ness Ike games.

 

[CallMeCAM]

hahahah, Yes it is, I remember you gave me your twitch channel! Speaking on friendly terms, the reason I want to use Ness is to combat squirtle, I find the ike squirtle matchup horrible. What is the Ness vs squirtle matchup?

 

[Bryonato]

YO sick! good to hear from you again man
I can't speak much about it outside my experience vs my friend's mediocre squirtle but the matchup feels even enough to me. I could see Ness winning it on certain terms too.

You have to figure out a decent way to deal with side B first, that being Nair and pkfire. You have to be careful of your fair usage in this MU because squirtles armor will just eat it up every time.

 

[Nido]

From my limited experience the MU is frustrating as hell, with Squirtle's SideB I found PK Fire wasn't that good of an option because he hit the bolt and came flying at me or jumped over it while I was in lag and bubbled then combod me. IMO pivot grabs are the way to go to beat his SideB.

 

[mimgrim]

So I'm kinda wondering what characters be a good main for Ness. I generally like to have 2 characters for each game, one main and one sub with the sub complimenting my main. But I'm unsure for PM.

I'm kinda leaning towards Charizard but I'm unsure if he is a good compliment to Ness. So what characters are good for a Ness main to sub?

 

[Bryonato]

i currently secondary MK. i think he covers Ness' poor mus very well and offers a good change of pace when switching characters mid set.

 

[mimgrim]

Ehhhhh. I'm not sure how I feel about MK. I don't think he really fits me all that well, which is still important to have in a sub for me.

For perspective I sub Dr. Mario in Melee and Wario in Brawl ( also use Wario exclusively in doubles for Brawl). And both have proven to compliment my mains in those games. But then again, in those games my mains have much less weaknesses then Ness does in PM, Dr. Mario is mainly there for Puff and Wario is mainly there for ICs. Which is why I am more unsure as to who to sub in PM, because Ness has more weaknesses.

Characters I have been messing around with other then Ness are Ike, Mewtwo, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Ganondorf. I would like to narrow it down to Ness and one of those characters. But I'm not sure which would compliment him best.

 

[TechMage299]

I can't play MK for crap, I tried to learn his playstyle but I just trained with spaceys instead.

Ness in the original is always feared for his spike. lol

 

[The_NZA]

Ehhhhh. I'm not sure how I feel about MK. I don't think he really fits me all that well, which is still important to have in a sub for me.

For perspective I sub Dr. Mario in Melee and Wario in Brawl ( also use Wario exclusively in doubles for Brawl). And both have proven to compliment my mains in those games. But then again, in those games my mains have much less weaknesses then Ness does in PM, Dr. Mario is mainly there for Puff and Wario is mainly there for ICs. Which is why I am more unsure as to who to sub in PM, because Ness has more weaknesses.

Characters I have been messing around with other then Ness are Ike, Mewtwo, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Ganondorf. I would like to narrow it down to Ness and one of those characters. But I'm not sure which would compliment him best.

Ivy seems like the best choice out of those. Personally, I secondary Ike but thats more of a fit thing than a bad matchup coverage kind of thing. Ivy would help you v. Marth, Zelda, Link, and other characters that control space well.

 

[mimgrim]

Ivy seems like the best choice out of those. Personally, I secondary Ike but thats more of a fit thing than a bad matchup coverage kind of thing. Ivy would help you v. Marth, Zelda, Link, and other characters that control space well.

Yea. A character that feels good to me is important for me to have, including sub. For example in Brawl I would be better off with MK as a sub, but he just doesn;t feel right. Same goes for Fox/Falco in Melee. Of the characters I listed Ivy and Mewtwo have the weirdest feel to them but I could get use to them while Charizard has the second best feel, Ness has best feel cause he wouldn't be my main otherwise, with the other characters in between. So yea. I'll give Ivy a bit more love and see how it goes.

 

[G13_Flux]

Thought I'd do a short write up on DJL (or double jump landing), which is another one of those fairly difficult techniques that can be used to safe frames. For the most part it will be used for landing on platforms quickly (10 frames quicker than WD), but it could also be used to safe 3 frames whenever landing with a DJ available.

First of all, to do the DJL, you need to DJ while Ness' waist is pretty much inside a platform/the ground. Doing this will cause Ness to drop slightly and land on the ground. Due to having a very low velocity, he will also have 0 lag while landing this way (thx 8adge for correcting me before I wrote this lol). Compared to doing a WD, it has 0 landing lag while the WD will have 10. This will not move Ness horizontally, but you will have the 10 frames to act, which can be similar to the WD movement if you choose. Compared to bair AC landing, it will be at least 5 faster (1 for starting the bair, 4 for landing) if done perfectly.

Of course this is a fairly hard technique to do (1 frame window with both jumps), but in the year 20XX...

Other random use is that you can do this whenever you land to save 3 frames (not 4 cause 1 frame to DJ) on your landing. useless in matches, but maybe TAS or something.

quick question for you, can ness not DJL OOS? like for instance, with peach or yoshi, you can jump OOS, quickly do a DJ, then land, and do a dsmash or jab or something. I can do this extremely consistently and easily with them, its not a hard tech at all. with ness, lucas, and mewtwo however, I have literally never been able to do it, leading me to believe that they cannot do it. you wouldnt happen to have an explanation for this would you?

granted, it wouldnt realy have any use for ness anyways because his other OOS options outweight any other quick options he could get from being grounded (whereas for peach and yoshi, dsmash can be very desirable OOS sometimes). i just want to know why he can DJL on plats but not from the ground.

 

[Bryonato]

afaik the only time ness can djl is when he's coming up through a plat, back onto the stage, or dj'ing on a slanted surface

 

[GMaster171]

quick question for you, can ness not DJL OOS? like for instance, with peach or yoshi, you can jump OOS, quickly do a DJ, then land, and do a dsmash or jab or something. I can do this extremely consistently and easily with them, its not a hard tech at all. with ness, lucas, and mewtwo however, I have literally never been able to do it, leading me to believe that they cannot do it. you wouldnt happen to have an explanation for this would you?

granted, it wouldnt realy have any use for ness anyways because his other OOS options outweight any other quick options he could get from being grounded (whereas for peach and yoshi, dsmash can be very desirable OOS sometimes). i just want to know why he can DJL on plats but not from the ground.

He cant, neither him nor Lucas dip enough in their DJ to land from a grounded jump. There is only enough of a dip to do it on a platform, and even that's a 1 frame trick.

 

[G13_Flux]

ok that makes sense. thanks a lot.

 

[Zero May Cry]

Ness' jab chain (AAA) is a really good follow up for any dtilt spam combo. It's a combo from Brawl that carries over into P:M. I don't see enough people use it so I just wanted to put it out there.

 

[Bryonato]

you can get so much more after a dtilt I don't see any reason to jab combo afterwards. I mostly only use jab as a quick "get off me" option

 

[Zero May Cry]

Really? Like what?

 

[SinisterB]

uair nair bair

aerials and like grab sometimes

 

[Zero May Cry]

I'll try it. And I know some of you guys were talking about secondaries to complement Ness earlier. I'm using Snake as a secondary for the time being and I think it could work pretty well. Could cover some of Ness' bad matches.

 

[choknater]

wow djl looks impossible lol

i'll try it tho

if i don't get it in 10 minutes i give up